Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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PsychoSoldier said:
I think ambiguity can work as a narrative device if there aren't a million different hanging threads that are left ambiguous all at once. It doesn't help your cause either when a great deal of the ambiguity is caused immediately beforehand by a heretofore unknown plot device or character.

And, if you're going to ask me to fill in blanks on my own, you need to have a consistent enough set of rules in your universe that allows me to have a reasonable chance at guessing what might happen.

This game just introduced a pseudo-deity who enables you to rewrite the DNA of everyone in the galaxy.

After that kind of curveball, how the fuck am I supposed to fill in the blanks?
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The super easy way this could have been fixed is if they tell you right up front that if you build the Crucible, you will end up destroying the galaxy. Then it becomes a question of whether the ends justify the means and whether or not you - and the rest of the species in the galaxy - are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice in order to stop the Reapers one and for all.

That's it. If the whole game was built around that premise, people would have no problem with the ending.

EmCeeGramr said:
Come to think of it, there's only one game I can think of that pulls of a child dying, and it's because it spends nearly the whole game building your relationship with them and then making their death and absence feel like a true loss. It's absolutely crushing.

You can avert the situation by getting a better ending, but that just makes the worse ending in which they're permanently dead even sadder.
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What game are you talking about? Yakuza 3 did children fairly well, because they were actual human beings that you came to care about and not because "children are kawaii".
 
DTKT said:
Well, I can honestly say that(to me) 99% of ME3 is great. Would it have been fair to give ME3 a 8 because the ending sucked? That's up the reviewer to decide. I don't want to open that can of worms either.
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The score is irrelevant. If there was even a mention about the quality of the ending - the thing that most of us non-paid gamers are talking about after the game - then sure. But there was no dissenting opinion, with those reviewers that mentioned the ending saying that it was satisfactory or amazing or other hyperbolic synonym for great. I mean, if I were to review the game, I'd have given it an 8 or 9 so that people would still play it because I want people to play it but I would also want people to steel themselves for the ending.

But it's like all these reviewers became less critical and more fanboyish.
 
DTKT said:
I might be alone in this but I would have liked for Shepard to have somekind of therapy. :|

PTSD is frequent with soldiers and it could have been a nice arc throughout the 40 hours or so.

:3
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I liked the argument between Joker and Shep, thought it was random.

At that point people could have gathered that the indoctrination had been showing, but Shep's personality is so consistent throughout the game that s/he didn't seem different to me.

If his dialogues and scenes had changed from the start to the finish, then I would have been curious. So ultimately, that argument seemed shallow and odd.
 
PsychoSoldier said:
I think ambiguity can work as a narrative device if there aren't a million different hanging threads that are left ambiguous all at once. It doesn't help your cause either when a great deal of the ambiguity is caused immediately beforehand by a heretofore unknown plot device or character.

And, if you're going to ask me to fill in blanks on my own, you need to have a consistent enough set of rules in your universe that allows me to have a reasonable chance at guessing what might happen.

This game just introduced a pseudo-deity who enables you to rewrite the DNA of everyone in the galaxy.

After that kind of curveball, how the fuck am I supposed to fill in the blanks?
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That the kid himself was created by organics and then managed to amass such great technological power over a large stretch of time that to others he appears godlike or magical.

It's a fairly cliched sci-fi concept that harkens to Clarke's third law, but I think that's what you're meant to gather.
 
reggie said:
But it's a child! You should be crying!
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Zeitgeister said:
Don't be deceived by the impression you get from writings. I know quite a few people that nobody would consider very smart from their writings, but that are samrt outside out their 'created persona / image'. They can do better, they just don't have any reason to.
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Do you have any examples in mind? It's been years since I've read a gaming review, but in the past nearly all reviews I read had the exact same tone. All of the personalities were essentially interchangable. I accept that some people may be playing a part to generate hits, similar to how other media personalities play up their eccentricities or take extreme positions just to create controversy. However, given how bland and uniform most reviews are and given that most of the reviewers are poorly compensated (which is why it's always surprising to see "older" males -- above 35 -- still writing about games; generally, those who are intelligent and creative get the fuck out of game journalism in their late 20s/early 30s with a few notable exceptions. it's quite unfortunate, but you gotta pay the bills), I don't accept that most reviewers are capable of doing better. I don't even think most of them know what better is due to the insulated existences they lead.
 
firehawk12 said:
What game are you talking about? Yakuza 3 did children fairly well, because they were actual human beings that you came to care about and not because "children are kawaii".
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Obviously saying what game it is would spoil it, and I can't exactly indicate what game the spoiler would be for!
 
Terra Firma said:
The score is irrelevant. If there was even a mention about the quality of the ending - the thing that most of us non-paid gamers are talking about after the game - then sure. But there was no dissenting opinion, with those reviewers that mentioned the ending saying that it was satisfactory or amazing or other hyperbolic synonym for great. I mean, if I were to review the game, I'd have given it an 8 or 9 so that people would still play it because I want people to play it but I would also want people to steel themselves for the ending.

But it's like all these reviewers became less critical and more fanboyish.
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This is the most disgusting part of the gaming journalism world. Have any major sites criticized the ending in their reviews? Hell, IGN even decorated their review especially for Mass Effect. Imagine if Roger Ebert did that for a film review.

I bet a lot of those reviewers didn't even finish the game. Some of them have even argued that a game doesn't have to be finished to be reviewed.

What an embarrassment.

wRe7u.gif
 
Tajin said:
This is the most disgusting part of the gaming journalism world. Have any major sites criticized the ending in their reviews? Hell, IGN even decorated their review especially for Mass Effect. Imagine if Roger Ebert did that for a film review.

I bet a lot of those reviewers didn't even finish the game. Some of them have even argued that a game doesn't have to be finished to be reviewed.

What an embarrassment.

wRe7u.gif
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GIF needs more McGriddles
 
BigJiantRobut said:
Why? 90% of the time they're not even intensely pro-religion or anything.

Also, avatarquote.
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Okay, I don't like it when they're done poorly, in which case they're used as an attempt to bolster lazy writing to seeming more meaningful than it actually is. See: The Matrix Revelations.
 
sflufan said:
They pretty much tend to be the laziest form of allegory that a writer can come up with. And in the case of Mass Effect, they didn't even attempt to cloak them (Shepherd, Legion, etc.)
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Considering when they named Legion Legion they quoted the Bible, they were pretty in your face about it.
 
Tajin said:
Writing 101 will tell you that nobody gives a shit about what happens to a character unless you know their personality. This is why books rarely open with action scenes. Even most films will establish the characters somehow before shit hits the fan. After all, who really cares if a bunch of unknowns die?

Now if Shepard and Anderson had been helping escort a few Marines and the kid and the extras had some dialogue and likable traits, even for a minute of in-game time, hell yeah it would have sucked when they died.

Shit, it's not even hard. I was shocked when the pilot that helps you on Thessia died. (I believe you can save him/her.) It was badass having air support, and I think Ashley shouted something like, "That's the best damn pilot ever!"

RIP THESSIA PILOT
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I don't think you can. I reloaded and took down the harvesters mid air in seconds and she still went down.
 
Maybe if we composite the R B and G endings into a whole video using each color in the appropriate channel we will reveal the true true ending.
 
FullMetalx said:
Since when does Sci Fi bring religion into the mix. I thought Bioware was above that.
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Pretty damned often actually.

But it's just the ham-fisted way BioWare deployed religious allegory that's lazy, not that they were actually presenting a religious point of view per se.
 
odd_morsel said:
I haven't spent any money on packs, just credits I've earned through the game. I also have a Turian, the two Drell, a Salarian and an Asari. The MP is really fun on silver and gold.
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Yeah, I didn't mean real money. I don't think you can do that, can you? I mean credits I got from playing the MP.
 
sflufan said:
Pretty damned often actually.

But it's just the ham-fisted way BioWare deployed religious allegory that's lazy, not that they were actually presenting a religious point of view per se.
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Or taking names and shit cause you know...they sound cool:)

squidyj said:
Maybe if we composite the R B and G endings into a whole video using each color in the appropriate channel we will reveal the true true ending.
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Lets do this!
 
After reviewing everything over and over, it is kind of beyond obvious that Bioware was attempting to show Shepard was dangerously close to being indoctrinated since the beginning of the game.

The moment Harbinger's beam hits Shepard as he's running towards the gravlift beam, it's plainly obvious that he is unconscious and being mentally attacked by the Reaper's. Everything that follows after the Alliance com says "no one made it to the beam", is all in his mind.

Everything was just wrong in the 'Citadel'. Everyone and every species mysteriously dead, the place having an overly eerie color tint of red (hell), the cloudy, dreamy look of everything. The Illusive Man being completely out of character and the fact that Anderson decided to "go ahead of you" and is standing there waiting. Bullshit. I mean for fucks sake, they throw in blatant hints such as Reaper's floating by in the background of space as the Troll Child talks with you.
 
EatChildren said:
The entire basis for being emotional attached to the child is that it is a human child and it dies. That's it. That's the only reasoning Walters and co have. There's literally nothing else to it, except sad music.

That's actually the fundamental problem with almost all video game writing that attempts to emotionally connect players to events and characters: telling a player how to feel doesn't work. Demanding they feel a certain way about events, or connect to a specific character, just because you want them to, always fails. Without question. In an interactive, player driven experience the only way to develop a legitimate emotional connection between the player and events/characters is to have that connection develop naturally on the player end.
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I think it's more about the fact that it's a child more than because it's human, due in part both to that "all babies are cute" thing and our sense of empathy for the young. I think a Quarian child who you had to escort, only to have their suit wildly ruptured at the last moment by a stray shot, or an Asari child could have fit the same role, but maybe I underestimate the same-species draw.

I also don't think there is anything wrong with a director, video game or otherwise, knowing what emotions or connections he wants to the audience to experience. Is that the same as telling the audience what to feel; crafting a package with a certain response in mind? Perhaps it is, but in movies we talk about whether a film does a good job of making its characters endearing or whatnot, but we don't blame them for trying to do so. We just critique them for not doing it well. It's not about telling the player what to feel per say, it's about creating something that's real enough that the audience feels they can have a true emotional response to it that doesn't feel forced, whether or not that response aligns with what the director wanted.

Except Garrus, because everyone loves Garrus.
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I love him so much I overlooked the meta-game meme reference during your sniper shootout. "Favorite Spot on the Citadel" indeed.
 
I don't really mind the religious allusions that Bioware makes in the Mass Effect series, but if the writers decided Shepard should die at the end because... hey, Jesus... then that's stupid.
 
Zeal said:
After reviewing everything over and over, it is kind of beyond obvious that Bioware was attempting to show Shepard was dangerously close to being indoctrinated since the beginning of the game.

The moment Harbinger's beam hits Shepard as he's running towards the gravlift beam, it's plainly obvious that he is unconscious and being mentally attacked by the Reaper's. Everything that follows after the Alliance com says "no one made it to the beam", is all in his mind.

I mean for fucks sake, they throw in blatant hints such as Reaper's floating by in the background of space as the Troll Child talks with you.
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RTGE6.jpg
 
sflufan said:
Pretty damned often actually.

But it's just the ham-fisted way BioWare deployed religious allegory that's lazy, not that they were actually presenting a religious point of view per se.
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"Hey, it's a human ship, let's call the Krogan 'Eve'! Because it's a human ship, you see?"
 
sdornan said:
I don't really mind the religious allusions that Bioware makes in the Mass Effect series, but if the writers decided Shepard should die at the end because... hey, Jesus... then that's stupid.
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Well that is already 100% clear that they didn't. Even the notes prove that. They had a couple reasons to do it and they had no fucking clue right up until the very end.

MORE DISCUSSIONS! LOTS OF SPECULATION!
 
Karak said:
Or taking names and shit cause you know...they sound cool:)
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Yup, Europe has Norse, Greek, Roman Mythology. Japan has that whole shinto thing going on. USA pretty much has Christianity no? Referring to legends is pretty cool imo. A weapon called Ragnarok or someone called Loki, just sounds cool.
 
 
Brawndo Addict said:
I think it's more about the fact that it's a child more than because it's human...
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Actually we're just going by what the writers actually stated. They ACTUALLY stated that they used a human child simply because they were SURE that we (as humans playing a human character) would have more sympathy for it!
 
Tajin said:
Gotta go back further.

222094.jpg


Fucking classic. Parapsychics, Nature vs Technology, religious philosophy, godly sentient invisible space cloud machines that are merely mentioned.
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Hell, I could even bust out Fahrenheit 451. I was just trying to keep it fairly vidya/recent, haha. But yeah. Scifi and religion is like peanut butter and chocolate, yo.
 
sflufan said:
Actually we're just going by what the writers actually stated. They ACTUALLY stated that they used a human child simply because they were SURE that we (as humans playing a human character) would have more sympathy for it!
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Because no player will ever give a fuck about an Asari. They're icky and alien. /Walters
 
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