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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Have they really? That would be a terrible idea. End season 3 on the Red Wedding, and more than half your viewership won't come back for season 4. Robb's death has to be in the same season as Joffery's death.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I don't think they've explicitly said it, but based on some of the comments they've made in the past that seems to be where they're headed.
Steelyuhas
Member
All I've really read was that their original goal with the series back when they started to develop it was to get to the RW. I'm sure now that the show is a huge success, their goals have changed a bit.
I've never seen anything that really pointed to RW in season 3, but maybe that's just me turning a blind eye to hints because I hope it takes place in season 4.
I've never seen anything that really pointed to RW in season 3, but maybe that's just me turning a blind eye to hints because I hope it takes place in season 4.
I don't know. That was kind of a "Hah, what?" moment for me, so I wanted to keep on reading to see where this shitstorm would end. Plus, I never liked Robb or Cat really, so good riddance to them. Although I liked Robb's exploits, I didn't find the means to his death bullshit, and I understood how they came to pass. Especially once you get to the real intricacies of the conspiracy. Fucking Little Finger man; never liked him since Book 1.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
Saw the latest trailer for the show, and I cannot for the life of me remember a part in CoK where the Hound whacked some dude off a ledge.
Based on trailers and stuff for season 2 they are very much pumping Robb up as a main character instead of as the off-viewpoint guy he is in the book. Ending a season with the Red Wedding would be almost as bad as ending the first season directly after Ned's death would've been. (Or as bad as ending DwD on Jon getting iced even if there are plenty of outs there.)
Thats probably the procession through the city, where the mob attacks them, and sandor fights them off, saving Sansa
bengraven
Member
I was thinking that, too. That scene was in a few of the trailers.
And that's where I assumed it was at, but look at the people surrounding him. They all look calm and relaxed. Shit, I think one of them is holding a drink.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yeah the more times I see that in the trailers, the less I know where the hell it's from and what the context is.
We'll get to find out soon enough, I can't believe how close we are getting to season 2.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
I was wondering
.you know the prophecy about one younger, and more beautiful replacing the queen. What if it is not Margarete; I was thinking maybe Sansa
. Little Finger is certainly a master of the game.
Thought I was in the tv thread haha
bengraven
Member
Because it's...oh, we're in the unmarked spoilers there.
I think we're all getting confused, since there are dozens of Ice and Fire threads, with three of them being very popular. haha
I always assumed it was Dany.
Did I forget something. What did Littlefinger have to do with the Red Wedding? I thought that was all Tywin's doing for the most part.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I've been saying this for a year now but nobody will listen. I'd bet real money that Season 3 doesn't end with the Red Wedding, at least in the sense that it will be the last scene or anything like that. HBO shows don't typically pan out that way, the finale is almost always wrap-up and character development while the penultimate episode is the one where shit goes down. And as you said, Joffrey's death has to follow it soon after. In fact I think the stuff with Cat is necessary too, to make the whole story arc work. So if it was up to me it'd be left for Season 4 or they'd bring the Cat stuff up a little.
Basileus777
Member
Littlefinger had nothing to do with the Red Wedding. IIRC he was even traveling to the vale when it went down.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
I kind of like Littlefinger (aside from his scary perviness). He's played all these people so well that I think I'd like to see him win the whole damn thing.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Martin read part of a Victarion chapter at the Toronto meet-up.
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/63319-the-winds-of-winter-victarion-i/
I kind of wonder if he read just a part of it because the chapter features heavy spoilers. Perhaps Victarion decides to blow the horn
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/63319-the-winds-of-winter-victarion-i/
I kind of wonder if he read just a part of it because the chapter features heavy spoilers. Perhaps Victarion decides to blow the horn
Not surprised that stupid shit Victarion would. I still love him as a character though. I want to see him and Barristan duel when he gets to Meereen.
I'm really hoping that (Winds speculation)
the Ironborn stomp the other fleets. I really don't want to read a drawn-out battle where Victarion loses. I already had to suffer through my favored side losing one naval battle in this series (Blackwater; up to that point I was sure that Stannis was going to take the crown). I can't take another one. Basically all laws of storytelling say that Victarion MUST win this battle.
Well, the slaver alliance themselves are supposed to be really weak. (propped up by sellswords) I'm sure the fucking Ironborn are going to stomp them to bloody bits. Well, unless Aurane Waters shows up for the other side.
Honestly, it sounds like a really amazing story could be set in motion here. And I'm starting to understand why Dance ended the way it did.
Too bad we'll have to wait until 2018. I'll probably be dead by then, fuck it.
It wasn't just a matter of adding a 50 page battle or two; the actual battle could be just the first part of a huge arc, which means it makes more sense to move it to the next book.
Too bad we'll have to wait until 2018. I'll probably be dead by then, fuck it.
Damn, it bothers me so much that someone on that topic calls Victarion Victorian
GRRM interviewed on Canadian TV
^pretty much supports my theory that GRRM hasn't figured out how to wrap up the story. I do hope he doesn't get entangled in his own story.
Now I want another one for my left arm, any suggestions? No Lannister crap
Bolton's Flayed Man? Baratheon's Stag? The Martell's Sun and Spear could be good too.
EDIT: The three-headed Targaryen dragon.
I like Targaryen and Baratheon's Sigils, but I'm more interested in North stuff. I'll get the Targaryen's three-headed dragon, if I don't find something else.
He has been writing on the same series for over 15 years. One would go insane if you did the same thing for that long.
Probably too much to expect that he has completed a whole chapter in the next book already. ADWD only came out 9 months ago.
The God of Nonexistence
Member
Au contraire, he already published a Theon chapter as a preview a couple of months ago.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Seeing something finally happen to Cersei in FFC was incredibly satisfying. Not even the humiliating walk in DwD but how her own rash decision to empower the church again backfired on her. She's as close to a "villain" as I think I could call any of the main cast.
can yu really call her a villain though? she was a woman growing up in a world where men were in power. she just wanted to be recognize and be of importance.
if she had been born with balls, she could have bene on top
Most definitely she is.
That chapter took place during the events in ADWD, so I assume that it was a chapter originally written for ADWD that he took out, not something new he wrote since ADWD's publication.
WeAreStarStuff
Member
Not really; she lacks the intelligence of a decent leader. If she had been born male she prob. would have died in some silly fight years ago. She complains about Jamie’s rash decisions, and yet is blind to her own.
LegendofJoe
Member
Yep, I suspect at least parts of the Victarion chapter he read in Toronto may have been written since ADWD was published though.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
She's the only character who I can think of who's completely selfish and self-centered. The closest she gets to having any motivation to do something for someone else is getting her children on the throne and even then she's short-sighted and paranoid enough to try and cling to as much power as she can.
Well, she's ordered a lot of murders for personal gain, including her husband and several innocent children. She's quick to abandon her brother/lover when he won't serve her purposes. She hates and mocks her other brother because he is ugly. We see no evidence of empathy in her personality, and the only positive attribute you can really assign is that she loves her children.
Yes, she lives in a patriarchal society. Yes, she didn't get to marry Rhaegar. And yes, Robert cheated on her consistently, but any half-decent villains have motivation. Unless you are going to say that there is no such thing as a 'villain', then she probably fits the bill.
Even that can be selfishness. "You won't die until your children do."
PhoenixDark
Banned
I got the opposite impression: he knows where things are going, he's just letting the story dictating how things get there. In hindsight the early books are full of so much foreshadowing or prophesy that relates to events in the later books that it's clear he knows where things are going.
It seems clear the series is building up to a massive battle on the Trident, given Dany's visions; how things get there exactly, dunno. It'll be interesting to see how the political aspects play out in response to the distant threat of the Others vs the more immediate threat of "Aegon." And if Varys is successful in placing Aegon on the throne, how will he react to the Others?
Perhaps. But I am more inclined to say that early on he kept his options open and now he is trying to bind it all together. And that is one of the reasons why it takes more time to write the sequels properly.
Additionally, I am now watching part one of the video gutshot posted. GRRM mentions he intended SOIAF to be a trilogy (GOT, ADWD, WOW), and that he keeps most of the stuff in his head.
He might have guidelines, but as time passes his perception changes, his ideas change...
Also he mentioned somewhere that there are stuff in the books that were recognized by the readers but not him. Mistakes, foreshadowing etc.
Disclaimer: I am not saying his way is bad, if anything, I am only scared that he'll become susceptible to fandom or god forbid pass away. I am not really good in expressing myself. Trying though, one of the reasons I joined this forum is to practice.
haha god his accent makes it so unepic
PhoenixDark
Banned
Initially Game Of Thrones was supposed to end with the Red Wedding, and ADWD was to be the final book of the trilogy; a lot of that had to do with the initial plans of skipping 5 years. We also know he wrote Jon's last chapter in ADWD years ago. So he's been mixing the pieces of the puzzle around for some time.
I don't think all of foreshadowing or prophecies are deliberate, but some are too blatant to be accidental, and many are repeated (like Dany on the Trident). Patchface foreshadows the Red Wedding in ACOK, as does the House Of The Undying for instance.
To me the biggest potential plot "wtf" of the series was the Aegon reveal, but even that has roots in the earlier books, from the specific "mummer's dragon" warning in ACOK to the various Blackfyre lore reveals throughout the series. In AFFC there's a passage where a character tells a story about a Blackfyre supporting inn that had a huge sign of the house on it, and how the sign eventually fell off into the river and traveled so long it eventually became red with rust. Some say that could just be a parable or whatever, but considering AFFC and ADWD were once one book I tend to believe it's true foreshadowing of "Aegon" and his true origin.
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