Well maybe, but the Others definitely seem to be aligned with the Great Other, so even if you have Red Priests giving birth to shadow babies, they don't seem to be a threat to all of humanity like the Others.
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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
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Well maybe, but the Others definitely seem to be aligned with the Great Other, so even if you have Red Priests giving birth to shadow babies, they don't seem to be a threat to all of humanity like the Others.
Man, Wyman Manderly is the most badass character of the entire series. He went from being a Lord too fat to sit a horse to one of my favorite characters. His conversation with Davos was hart warming.
"The North remembers, Lord Davos. The North remembers and the mummer's farce is almost done"
And making pig pies out of Freys was just total badass.
"The North remembers, Lord Davos. The North remembers and the mummer's farce is almost done"
And making pig pies out of Freys was just total badass.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh yeah, that was a really great scene. When did the pig pie thing happen though?
elrechazado
Banned
myrish swamp!
When the armies of the north being commanded by bolton are in winterfell, manderly serves "pig pies" while having the minstrels play the rat king. Thus explaining what happened to the missing freys that had been at his court. He gave them gifts, releasing them from the bond of hospitality, then killed them and had them made into pies, which everyone ate, including Manderly.
Like. A. Boss.
It was awesome eventhough I missed the Frey's being cooked up and served. Loved the Davos convo though and am I sure glad The North Remembers.
Trying to avoid reading spoilers while I'm in here, but has anyone bought the four book bundle from Amazon? It seems that a lot of the reviews refer to severe QA issues with the set, including entire lines missing from the bottoms of pages, missing pages, pages falling out without significant wear to the books, etc. It seems like there are actually more reviews noting this issue than the normal amount of outliers you'd see on any given product.
elrechazado
Banned
Flee this thread and check one of the spoilers marked ones.
one of the best lines in the entire fucking series, right there. I think I had goosebumps when I read it.
I bought this set before the TV series started, and didn't have any problems with my copies. I don't know if the problems are with the later print runs.
Pollux
Member
Agreed. That actually almost made up for all the crap Dany chapters
PhoenixDark
Banned
I just hope Manderly lives long enough to see at least some fruition to his plans. I don't expect him to live long enough to see Rickon/Davos return (if they ever do...), but hopefully he lives long enough to explain things to Stannis, participate in the destruction of the Freys/Boltons at Winterfell, and offer his ships to Stannis.
yeah i always thought it was a mistake to say r'hllor and stuff seem to have genuine godly power themselves just because their worshipers can do magic
i think the only reason they can suddenly do magic is that magic in general is returning to the world. so for instance the rebirth of dragons, even if you had performed the same ritual danny did only ten years prior, you wouldn't have been able to revive the eggs even with blood sacrifice because magic was simply dead or dying. same thing with the wildfire suddenly being able to be made really easily. the others returning, the walking dead, the red priests, obviously the dragons coming back, and the citadel picking up on this and trying to move against it are all part of the same general pattern of magic being resurgent in the world in general.
also did anyone ever pick up on the fact that imo the citadel guys, if they really did manage to kill off dragons over time, and end the power of magic in the world, are actually unequivocally a force for good? running the world by magic and dragons is basically a free ticket to tyranny. ending that shit was the best thing anyone did for westeros imo.
i think the only reason they can suddenly do magic is that magic in general is returning to the world. so for instance the rebirth of dragons, even if you had performed the same ritual danny did only ten years prior, you wouldn't have been able to revive the eggs even with blood sacrifice because magic was simply dead or dying. same thing with the wildfire suddenly being able to be made really easily. the others returning, the walking dead, the red priests, obviously the dragons coming back, and the citadel picking up on this and trying to move against it are all part of the same general pattern of magic being resurgent in the world in general.
also did anyone ever pick up on the fact that imo the citadel guys, if they really did manage to kill off dragons over time, and end the power of magic in the world, are actually unequivocally a force for good? running the world by magic and dragons is basically a free ticket to tyranny. ending that shit was the best thing anyone did for westeros imo.
elrechazado
Banned
Uhh, the tyranny of the seven kingdoms has almost nothing to do with magic over the last thousands of years, other than the targaryen dragons in the last 300. The inequality and tyranny and war and destruction and evil all continued unabated for thousands of years with just about zero magic.
elrechazado
Banned
I hope there's some explanation, but I'd guess the real answer is because in general, fantasy writers don't like moving beyond a certain era, and then live in it for the "thousands of years" trope.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I expect it won't be explained, although I have known a few fantasy works that explained thousands of years of technological stagnation in interesting ways.
Bought the four book set from bookdepository. No issues with it at all.
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
I could see it tying in somewhat to the conspiracy with the maesters, and the magic vs technology angle that was being played up towards the end of Feast. There's also the fact that Sam was talking earlier in the book about how many of the historical records for their world seem to be inaccurate, so I think Martin is setting up some sort of explanation.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I've seen people make reference to this before but literally the only line in any of the books that suggested that to me was the "there's no place for Dragons in the world the Maesters are building"
Pollux
Member
and answered.
It's one of my bigger pet peeves with fantasy writing in general. Up there with the sic-fi issue of how every alien species speaks English.
Sleeper901
Member
How old Cersei's supposed to be?
Reading about her sagging breasts during her walk of shame made me wonder
I'll go with 30
Reading about her sagging breasts during her walk of shame made me wonder
I'll go with 30
what i mean is, if the citadel had any kind of hand in decaying the practical power of superstition and magic in the world, then it was a good thing. magic in the books, upon returning, has done nothing but fuck shit up for everyone.
like how until you got rid of the dragons, there was no way of displacing the targ's rule over everyone else. they stayed in power after dragons were extinct because they became a part of the established order, but eventually, seeing as they were only in power due to normal, human reasons, their hold over westeros was ended, which imo is a good thing. you can't begin to alter all the other inequalities and injustices in the world while power is absolutely held by a guy just because he used to have dragons.
i think george is subtly asking us why, when you first read the books, you kind of accept and want someone to rule because they're a targ and just because they have dragons (i.e. you want dany to go and fuck shit up in westeros, which was the natural reaction of a lot of first time readers or watchers)
thats why i think if the citadel is anti-dragon then it is a force for good. fuck those things, and fuck ruling society through magic. science and reason over magic and superstition plz
elrechazado
Banned
I still don't get it. Black Harren ruled the seven kingdoms with worse tyranny than the targs (who I might add did tons of good things for the kingdoms in terms of stability and infrastructure), so why do you assume that the dragons made any difference, or that even the seven kingdoms that were ruled independently by bloodthirsty tyrant maniacs who were constantly warring with each other is somehow better in any way at all?
KuwabaraTheMan
Banned
Pretty much everything Marwyn said in the last chapter of Feast suggested it to me. Not just talking about the citadel killing off dragons, but also cautioning Sam about not mentioning prophecies to anyone around there.
It also makes me look at Luwin's repeated attempts to dissuade Bran from believing in magic related stuff differently. He's pretty insistent for someone so close to the Wall, which makes me think that it may tie into what is going on in Oldtown and the endgame plan of the grey sheep.
Magic in this world, even at its peak is probably not very widespread. Certain people know how to do it and they get more powerful as magic returns to the world. I'm sure fighting with children of the forest and white walkers contributed to stagnation but almost all societies have to deal with wars popping up. Though I think there have been examples of technology in this world that we would not find in the medieval era. I hope George writes a detailed history of this world after he finishes all the books.
bengraven
Member
Oh shit, I forgot about that part of the book!
"mummer's farce is almost over" - only two books left...kind of prophetic maybe?
Also, fat dude who's secretly plotting to bring the realm to peace? WYMAN IS VARYS. (
)BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I love this series. I think it is absolutely brilliant at its best but god damn am I ever going to get a friggen break? I am half-way through book 3 and one of the last people that any good comes from that I can trust or believe in has a sword thrust through his heart. Rob is dead....Seriously? I can't take this shit much more I mean I am all for making the reader feel the pain but damn man. I am just reeling from it.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, that scene was brutal. I put the book down for about two days after reading that.
Yeah this has made me less enthusiastic about the show than I would be otherwise. I enjoy it for sure, but I feel like I can't get that excited when I know Stannis is going to lose the Battle of the Blackwater, the Red Wedding is going to happen, Gregor is going to kill Oberyn, etc. When I know so many threads of the plot have such tragic endings, I find it hard to get excited about the show beyond just seeing what the adaption will be like.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I....Can't believe he is dead.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I hope to god this series has some kind of payoff. At this point it better be the greatest payoff of all time. I don't think I have ever been dragged through so much turmoil in anything like I have these books.
He is dead! I still can't believe he is dead. I am so sad.
He is dead! I still can't believe he is dead. I am so sad.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
You felt he was a secondary character? Well your obviously right cause he died but I have been nursing this hope all this time Rob was going to be a pivotal piece of the conclusion of the books. He is the only real good thing that was left.
Look on the bright side--Jaime and Tyrion are alive.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Ha you son of a bitch!
Dresden I am trying to decipher this statement and the only thing I am getting is if you don't have the right pov of the book your bound to get screwed(Thats no close is it?)
You should have seen my posts on this matter when I read the series a year ago. Robb was my favorite character by a country mile. I was destroyed and almost rage-quit the series.
Stick with it though. A Storm of Swords has some amazing payoff in the second half. You won't regret it.
Just that a character who doesn't have a chapter of his own is more likely to get killed off.
Also Jaime and Tyrion are like the best characters in the series!
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I loved Eddard Stark and I have been nurturing this hope Rob would ultimately make all the wrongs that have been committed by everyone finally right. Alas that is never to be. Thanks for posting though. I just read through 4 chapters in the order of: Tyrion, Davos, Tyrion and thought maybe I am over this series. Thats just my menstrual cycle talking though Ill man up.
This is sadly a profound statement. I should have probably considered that. Its the equivalent of wearing the red jumpsuit on the bridge.
I love Jaime and Tyrion especially in this book(#3) but I love revenge and justice and no one deserves more justice than the Starks. If Jon dies I might
need to start a drug habit.
Robb saving the day just wouldn't have worked in the end. George could have maybe delayed his death but I think killing him was a good move in terms of the overall story. The ending will be bittersweet according to George and I don't know if anyone will "balance the scales" so to speak but I think some good will happen. That kind of traditional fantasy narrative where the hero fights back and scores are settled is great but I want to see George really make an epic and satisfying series without having to rely on all that.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I greatly admire what George is doing and love trying to convince myself that going for the more real harsher conclusion to the series is brave and forward thinking but at the end of the day I just want some good ole fashioned revenge where the bad guys suffer and the good guys win. Yes I realize how boring that sounds.
Steelyuhas
Member
Second half? Red Wedding takes place almost exactly 2/3 through SOS.
There are some events after the RW that make it slightly easier to swallow though.
It wasn't really until some events in ADWD though that I felt some ease on the red wedding though.
BruceLeeRoy I suggest you don't post in this thread until you are completely done with all the books and at least finish SoS before giving up on the series. I got Robb's death spoiled for me while still on book 1 and he was my favorite character but the second I read that I lost interest in him and it kind of desensitized his death. But theres still a lot of amazing things to to look forward to.
I was so upset at the Red Feast that I had to put the book down and take a long walk. That was one of the few times any work of fiction had any physical effect on me.
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