It's not that Guerilla aren't talented, it's just that they aren't nearly as talented as Bungie.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Bungie: Do they deserve more credit?
- Thread starter HigherLevel
- Start date
It's not that Guerilla aren't talented, it's just that they aren't nearly as talented as Bungie.
Muffdraul
Member
As long as there are ignorant twats who seem to think MS called Bungie into existence in 2001 and Halo 1 was their first game, I'm going to keep bringing up the innovative stuff Bungie did for a decade before that. Sorry brah.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Oh hey guys whats going on in ..... nevermind.
Bungie are a fantastic company and they deserve a huge amount of credit not only did they create one of the most iconic video game characters of the past 10 years but they also created a game that will forever stand as one of the greats, They made Xbox and Xbox Live the success they are today and brought new life to consoles FPS, the redefined a genre on consoles with Halo.
Beyond all that they interacted with and supported the community a great deal, you only have to look at groups like Red Vs Blue to see the impact Halo has had.
They deserve as much credit as Valve and Blizzard without question, Even before Halo Marathon was at the very least making waves.
For 7 years (up till halo 3) they constantly made impacts in games.
halo 1 started this console fps trend
halo 2 showed console online could be a big deal
halo 3 showcased elements like forge and theatre both of which are massively successful
And a little known fact.. after Halo 3 shipped they started early work on a a survival based gametype, months before horde was announced at e3, without gears Bungie would also be credited for making the Survival modes we see all over to day successful again
Bungie are a fantastic company and they deserve a huge amount of credit not only did they create one of the most iconic video game characters of the past 10 years but they also created a game that will forever stand as one of the greats, They made Xbox and Xbox Live the success they are today and brought new life to consoles FPS, the redefined a genre on consoles with Halo.
Beyond all that they interacted with and supported the community a great deal, you only have to look at groups like Red Vs Blue to see the impact Halo has had.
They deserve as much credit as Valve and Blizzard without question, Even before Halo Marathon was at the very least making waves.
For 7 years (up till halo 3) they constantly made impacts in games.
halo 1 started this console fps trend
halo 2 showed console online could be a big deal
halo 3 showcased elements like forge and theatre both of which are massively successful
And a little known fact.. after Halo 3 shipped they started early work on a a survival based gametype, months before horde was announced at e3, without gears Bungie would also be credited for making the Survival modes we see all over to day successful again
my thoughts exactly.
also, before hearing out either side of that particular point any further, I'd be interested to see how much of the company (business model, employees, leadership, general philosophy, etc.) is still intact after pushing out nothing except Halo for a decade.
It's not like we can point to LucasArts and defend them for developing Monkey Island.
Dat fanboyism.Oh hey guys whats going on in ..... nevermind.
Bungie are a fantastic company and they deserve a huge amount of credit not only did they create one of the most iconic video game characters of the past 10 years but they also created a game that will forever stand as one of the greats, They made Xbox and Xbox Live the success they are today and brought new life to consoles FPS, the redefined a genre on consoles with Halo.
Beyond all that they interacted with and supported the community a great deal, you only have to look at groups like Red Vs Blue to see the impact Halo has had.
They deserve as much credit as Valve and Blizzard without question, Even before Halo Marathon was at the very least making waves.
For 7 years (up till halo 3) they constantly made impacts in games.
halo 1 started this console fps trend
halo 2 showed console online could be a big deal
halo 3 showcased elements like forge and theatre both of which are massively successful
And a little known fact.. after Halo 3 shipped they started early work on a a survival based gametype, months before horde was announced at e3, without gears Bungie would also be credited for making the Survival modes we see all over to day successful again
ProfessorMoran
Member
I think you got Bungie confused with Infinity Ward.
Problem with Bungie is that they didn't show much creative vision with the Halo franchise.
People like to see franchises take leaps, even if some of the die hard fans don't actually like the gear shift. See Gears 2, Uncharted 2, Res 4, Mass Effect 2, Killzone 2 etc etc
Halo 2 was a lie, Halo 3 came late, ODST was straight robbery, Reach was insipid at best for a 5th game in a series.
Once Bungie added MP they stopped doing big jumps.
People like to see franchises take leaps, even if some of the die hard fans don't actually like the gear shift. See Gears 2, Uncharted 2, Res 4, Mass Effect 2, Killzone 2 etc etc
Halo 2 was a lie, Halo 3 came late, ODST was straight robbery, Reach was insipid at best for a 5th game in a series.
Once Bungie added MP they stopped doing big jumps.
Shake Appeal
Member
I mean listing Halo's relatively minor 'innovations' completely misses the point. The reason Bungie should be praised is because they curated one of the three-or-so FPS franchises left in existence (make that two if Far Cry 3 is another zombie CoD, as looks increasingly likely) that actually understand that the variability of experience (i.e. the permutations of interaction between the player, weapons, enemies, and level design) is more important than its presentation.
When everyone, the holy sainted Valve included (excepting Left 4 Dead, the other franchise that does this right) has gone the other direction, in pursuit of cinema, the scripted sequence, the linear path, the one-time, quick-time moment, it's hard not to adore Bungie for understand what's interesting about the interactive medium, and what's redundant.
That the majority of the gaming world doesn't even begin to grasp that, so consumed are they with petty grievances (that possibly have more to do with Microsoft and the Xbox than they do with Halo or Bungie) and the latest flash-bang corridor drivel, is simply depressing. It makes me depressed about the future of the genre, and even the entire medium.
Flawed as their execution has been (and it has been flawed, in myriad ways), Bungie grasp what's unique about videogames. So, so many 'authorities', even in this thread, don't.
When everyone, the holy sainted Valve included (excepting Left 4 Dead, the other franchise that does this right) has gone the other direction, in pursuit of cinema, the scripted sequence, the linear path, the one-time, quick-time moment, it's hard not to adore Bungie for understand what's interesting about the interactive medium, and what's redundant.
That the majority of the gaming world doesn't even begin to grasp that, so consumed are they with petty grievances (that possibly have more to do with Microsoft and the Xbox than they do with Halo or Bungie) and the latest flash-bang corridor drivel, is simply depressing. It makes me depressed about the future of the genre, and even the entire medium.
Flawed as their execution has been (and it has been flawed, in myriad ways), Bungie grasp what's unique about videogames. So, so many 'authorities', even in this thread, don't.
Digital-Hero
Member
If all Valve made were Half Life games they'd still be a god tier company. Likewise Starcraft for Blizzard. But I agree with the general point that I'd like to see what they can do next. Portal 2 far surpassed anything Valve had done previously.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
sure, how about we stop bringing up half life when talking about valve then? no one is talking about gnop or pathways or oni.
ElRenoRaven
Member
Yup. Can't have people knowing that Bungie was around long before Halo. lol
Most don't. A lot of people really are ignorant of Bungie's history. So many great games they made before Halo never are mentioned. The only game they've made that some might look down on is ONI but if you look at that game and what happened it's a testament to how damn great the game is.. With ONI you had it being made and in the middle of it they're purchased by Microsoft. As a result they sell ONI and Myth franchises to Take 2 and have to hurry and finish it before Bungie West was closed and people were relocated to Redmond to be with the main Bungie team. Then hell the PS2 port wasn't even done by Bungie. So you can't blame them for how clunky it controlled.
All that said the game is an amazing game that really doesn't get the credit it deserved. I've always dreamed of a sequel using everything they learned from making Halo but alas since they don't own the franchise we'll never see one.
To this day I've still never found a game that really manages to do what ONI did gameplay wise with combining the fighting/melee gameplay with the gunplay.Beerman462
Member
I might be in the minority but Halo for me is all about the Master Chief. I loved Halo CE, I hated playing as covenant in Halo2 and really enjoyed Halo3. Reach and ODST were not enjoyable to me.
I.. I... Halo, was an accident?
:lol What?
ODST had a fantastic story, great survival mode and all of Halo 3's Mutliplayer maps. It was a great deal to get ODST.
ODST is is my, by far favorite campaign.
PrinceOfApathy
Banned
I think they are easily as talented. Their games artistically are better than anything Bungie could ever hope to put out. Stylistically stronger.
They do have a better lore for their Universe ( which they failed to capatlise on )
They did create Warzone which is an innovative multi-player mode for its type on consoles.
However as I said before they are horribly mismanaged, and don't know how to pace a game to save their life, nor direct or write compelling dialouge and scenarios. That is all that stops them from being better than Bungie.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
Somewhat outdated but i used to say that "Halo is the Winning Eleven of fps games" - you can play the campaign over and over again and the amount of unscripted awesome scenarios and events that throw themselves up time and time again are staggering. It's something you only see with repeated play throughs and it's absolutely glorious.
better than the spartan, master chief, flood, cortana, covenant stuff? I mean, i played KZ2 to completion and thought it was good, only started KZ3, finished KZ:L but a better lore? It's not bad and all taht.
Anyways, i'll leave it - the last thing we need is this to become Killzone vs Halo. We did that to death X years ago, Sony fans were wrong then, they are wrong again now
better than the spartan, master chief, flood, cortana, covenant stuff? I mean, i played KZ2 to completion and thought it was good, only started KZ3, finished KZ:L but a better lore? It's not bad and all taht.
Anyways, i'll leave it - the last thing we need is this to become Killzone vs Halo. We did that to death X years ago, Sony fans were wrong then, they are wrong again now
Shake Appeal
Member
Hey, this is my post in miniature. I like you.
The reason we keep bringing them up is because a lot of people seem to think or otherwise act like Halo is the only thing Bungie's done. For example, when you say they made one great game. Just because it's been a while doesn't mean they didn't make them.
What's unique about videogames is that when you press a button, Max Payne shoots some NPC in the head.
That's it. That's all there is to videogames, when you click shit shit happens.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
The Return of
Banned
Pretty much only reason why I think the Halo campaigns are good. Everything else like the story, I think is pretty bad. But yeah gun fights are a lot of fun.
gaming_noob
Member
Left 4 Dead, although not a sandbox, does this very well with it's "Director". Different swarms/special infected in different times/areas at every play through. Try it if you like that kind of thing.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
The difference is Halo isnt governed by a "Director", Stuff just ... Happens
I'm talking Bungie fanboyism, not Halo.
Honestly I couldn't disagree more, and I think it stems back to the point Shake made. There's, to me, a wealth of difference in how Guerilla understand what makes the first person shooter fun and how Bungie interpret that; and I personally think Bungie's vision and execution is vastly superior.
I think Killzone looks better, I think Killzone animates better, I think Killzone sounds better, and I enjoy the Killzone lore (even if I wholeheartedly oppose the notion that it's superior. I think both franchises have excellent lore that's woefully told within the game). But Halo is more enjoyable, requires more thought and interaction from the player and as a result offers far more options and pockets of fun that Killzone ever could.
Thousands of games play similarly to Killzone (3 more than 2, but I'm not including input lag as an example of gameplay style.), none play like Halo.
I'm willing to bet a large portion of the criticism in this thread comes from people who know very little about Bungie other than that they made a bunch of Halo games. And I'm not talking about their other games either. There's a whole lot more to Bungie than the games they make that go unnoticed by the people who don't watch them closely. Their transparency in the game development process and community support continues to be unmatched.
Why? Slow, boring, ugly.
FieryBalrog
Member
Last HL game released in 2007.
Yeah, that's the same situation as Myth/Marathon /rollseyes
Not to mention, these aren't exactly genre-shattering games in the first place, like the original Half-Life or Diablo. They're good, competent games from the 90s.
Muffdraul
Member
Again... simply no accounting for taste.
That's fine and all, but it was not worth the price. It was marketed like a full game while it clearly wasn't.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Talented devs dude, yeah they have faults point me to a dev that dosnt.
"full game" is what you make of it, You got the entire halo 3 multiplayer experience + firefight and a similar length campaign thats more than worth the money
Uh...have you played Marathon or Myth?
A nice change up from the traditional Halo formula.
It looked incredibly outdated, the story was extremely simple, the game extremely short. It's MS's biggest franchise...
A multiplayer that I already had, a survival mode with maps straight out of campaign and a campaign about half the length of a normal Halo game. If you think it was a full game you're kidding yourself.
Maybe not, but it was very easy to find cheaper. I got it in the Forza 3 + ODST combo pack for $40 on ebay very soon after release.
You're forgetting the absolutely incredible soundtrack. Can't deny it that.
Muffdraul
Member
(Shhhhhh! He said not to bring those up anymore!)
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
yup - i'm a big fan of L4D as well. L4D feels like this gens Gauntlet. The first time i opened the door to see zombies come racing out i let out a little shriek of glee.All we need is <synthvoice>"Red Elf... shot the car"</synthvoice>
And also Director is incredibly subtle in what it does - and again, like Halo, it's genius becomes apparent after multiple plays.
Never will, Bungie has talented people, obviously. But they don't deserve more credit.
FieryBalrog
Member
I've played Myth 2.
Myth 2 came out the same year as SC1. One of them became a ridiculously popular classic that pioneered an entire aspect of gaming in esports, and the other became something occasionally brought up in message boards. It also came out the same year as Half Life 1. Another game that basically changed huge facets of the games industry. Given that the OP and everyone specifically talks about how Bungie compares to Valve and Blizzard, this is a fairly interesting look at things.
It's a good game, and it was an important influence for the tactical RTS games, but...
StalkerUKCG
Banned
What did you expect going in? the campaign is about 5-6 hours thats the lenght of a halo game, the multiplayer was a smart move you could of avoided it if you wanted its not like you got tricked.
ODST is one of the best halo campaign's aswell infact its my personal favourite
Muffdraul
Member
I thought it looked pretty good. *shrug*
OK. And...?
It was shorter than other Halo campaigns, but it was long enough for me. I replayed it many times, definitely got my money's worth.
HigherLevel
Member
I made some updates to the OP I think a lot of you should go back and check out.
Why is it one of the best campaigns? It's a campaign where Halo's defining attributes aren't much at play.
What was so special about it? It was different, that's all I got from it.
Garrett 2U
Member
Which game had any of the following before Halo?
Two weapon inventory.
Playlists.
Ranked matchmaking.
Extensive online persistence.
Which AAA FPS doesn't have a majority of those currently?
Similar threads
- Poll