Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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Conversation fights are cool, but they need a solid roleplaying system behind them.

In ME2, this required choosing ONLY paragon or ONLY renegade through the whole game, to be able to convince Jack or Miranda to be loyal to you again.

In New Vegas you need a 100% speech to convince the final boss to surrender.

In ME3, though, it is far too easy to have 100% reputation and be able to access all the paragon/renegade options. A conversation boss battle would have been easy.
 
Zerokku said:
Hell, theres an even bigger problem with "surviving an explosion, falling from orbit, hitting gravel" etc. Is that you are supposed to die as well since you're part synthetic. And yet you live.

Ghost kid is full of shit.
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That too. But hey. Apparently if you have enough war assets, none of that matters. BioWare!

ElFly said:
Well, destroying all synthetics doesn't really gel with Paragon either.

One of the Indoc theory videos makes a good point that they show you TIM choosing Paragon, and Anderson choosing Renegade, when it should have been the other way around, so maybe the paragon/renegade system is being used to trick you.

This may be true without buying into the rest of the indoctrination theory.
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Care to link me to this?
 
LuchaShaq said:
Me after ending+endless SPECULATION - Wait Andersen/soldiers on the Kodiak didn't seem to notice kid. Shep is already hallucinating so indoctrination right CMON GOOD ENDING OR SOMETHING MAN.
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I don't think they'll do anything else. This is the end they wanted to give the series.

Brave New World
End of the first Matrix

Shepard's Death


Too bad this ending was like the Matrix sequels instead.
 
No one else seeing the kid and Shephard being so bothered by it gives more evidence for the indoctrination theory. I like how we make up these theories to cover the bad writing.
 
I don't think there's ever been an instance where a good game has received so much bad publicity before.

It's hilarious to see the depths to which raging nerds will go to send their message across. I saw a CNN segment on video games mention the shitty ending today.
 
Had some time to simmer on the ending. Still sucks just as bad. I mean here you are, all the choices that you have made with the one character over three games, thrown out the window. It's just so unsatisfying and fails on every level.

Honestly I would rather it if the ending was just a picture of my Femshep and Liara laying on a beach sipping Mojitos, with a caption saying "Wish you were here xx." Instead we get an ending with an annoying kid, the Normandy is crashed god-knows-where, all Mass Relays are blown up, and FTL travel is not possible. That's balls. I get that ending on current day Earth!
 
MiamiWesker said:
And later the Quarians came back to fight again. And some organic race would fight them at some point cause that is what we do. At some point the Geth would simply say fuck this, they are too big of a threat, lets get rid of them so we can finally be in peace.
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Geth > We do not want to be annihilated as such we must defend ourselves against organic aggression
> the simplest solution is to end all organic life
> but that would be the annihilation of all organics
> our memory banks show that organics do not behave in an enitrely uniform manner, even now the (majority of the quarians) interact peacefully (maybe even interceding on the behalf of geth)


This is where we rely on the evidence that in the past Geth largely have allowed the Quarians to continue to exist to perhaps the detriment of the Geth. This suggests that they will continue to make judgements that have a viewpoint beyond merely their own limited and short-term best interests.


PastorOfMuppets said:
I don't think there's ever been an instance where a good game has received so much bad publicity before.

It's hilarious to see the depths to which raging nerds will go to send their message across. I saw a CNN segment on video games mention the shitty ending today.
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raging nerds.... Maybe you should stop posting on a gaming forum then buddy. It tends to be a place where people who care about these sorts of things gather. Clearly that doesn't interest you.
 
alerus said:
And the point is their solution is stupid when they could have just done synthesis from the start or any number of other plans that didn't involve the murdering of trillions of people every 50000 years.

At no point is it said that it didn't have the technology to do it, it just says it wasn't implemented. Again, given that the star child is what makes it possible and given everything that was built before (Reapers, mass relays, etc.) from which all current technology is based it's a remarkable stretch to say the crucible would have been outside the abilities of the creators. They were way beyond anyone in any cycle. If they weren't, the other cycles would have won by conventional means.
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All the points you make that I highlighted are basically wrong, or assumptions.

They probably could not to synthesis from the start, They might of grown their Tech beyond where it was when they destroyed their creators. The Geth grew it's own architecture, and basically show that they were an extension of their creators, that given time, they would of grew well beyond them. This is very possibly what happened with the reapers, they killed their creators and found this way to preserve organic life from then on, if you let the Geth live, they regret the destruction of their creators, but they are happy to survive.

The Crucible was added on by every cycle, the original idea was likely far outside the box, and you have to assume that the goal was synthesis from the start, the control or destruction options were viable and likely added later. Basically just because someone is advanced doesn't mean he has all the answers, just think about reality, there was a mathematician that came from India, Srinivasa Ramanujan. He was solving things that cultures much more advanced than him, couldn't even grasp.

The whole point of the story of mass effect, is sacrifice. I beat the game today, the ending felt very much like any other point in the story, heck something very similar happens with Mordin, and just so everyone is clear, pretty sure the child is a physical representation of Shepard's mind, the kid haunts him through out the game, and makes sense that he would project the kid.

I really hope that they do give us a different ending though, something that gives us back the mass relays and the citadel, to destroy those things, is to destroy the future of the series, and I think that is why most people are mad at this ending, because there is closure, just it doesn't allow the story to continue, it's an ending in a sea of games that leave the series open for a future.
 
nowt to do with the ending but, is it ever explained why the Omni-tool can stab people? Isn't a hologram? Playing the start of ME1 again, making my character it calls it a hologram when choosing a class. Why can this hologram now stab people?

And why does it come out of nowhere if it can?
 
Rezbit said:
Had some time to simmer on the ending. Still sucks just as bad. I mean here you are, all the choices that you have made with the one character over three games, thrown out the window. It's just so unsatisfying and fails on every level.

Honestly I would rather it if the ending was just a picture of my Femshep and Liara laying on a beach sipping Mojitos, with a caption saying "Wish you were here xx." Instead we get an ending with an annoying kid, the Normandy is crashed god-knows-where, all Mass Relays are blown up, and FTL travel is not possible. That's balls. I get that ending on current day Earth!
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Hell I'd rather harbinger yells at shepherd "Crucible was a plan created by us to keep you stupid ass organics busy and waste resources not fighting us, you built it but you fucking lose" and the reapers win.
Zomba13 said:
nowt to do with the ending but, is it ever explained why the Omni-tool can stab people? Isn't a hologram? Playing the start of ME1 again, making my character it calls it a hologram when choosing a class. Why can this hologram now stab people?

And why does it come out of nowhere if it can?
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Codex explains
 
Empty Space said:
The Shadow Broker and Vasir fights are good up to point. I actually broke them as a vanguard in ME2, but played them as an infiltrator the first time and really enjoyed them. I can't say anything about the Kai Leng fight since I've only done it as a Vanguard and that is a class that breaks everything in ME3. I had a vague idea that he summons a bunch of enemies every time he goes to recharge, but thats about all I saw. I don't know what enemies he summons or even what abilities he has when not charging up.
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Engineer pretty much breaks that fight too. A properly set up turret, drone, and overload make mincemeat of most regular enemies in the game. The defense drone ability you can get from EDI doesn't ever seem to do anything but I guess that's because I never let enemies get near me.
 
LuchaShaq said:
Hell I'd rather harbinger yells at shepherd "Crucible was a plan created by us to keep you stupid ass organics busy and waste resources not fighting us, you built it but you fucking lose" and the reapers win.


Codex explains
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Ah kk. I'll have to read it. At least it's explained somewhere. It's been bugging me since the first showing of it.
 
z0m3le said:
All the points you make that I highlighted are basically wrong, or assumptions.

They probably could not to synthesis from the start, They might of grown their Tech beyond where it was when they destroyed their creators. The Geth grew it's own architecture, and basically show that they were an extension of their creators, that given time, they would of grew well beyond them. This is very possibly what happened with the reapers, they killed their creators and found this way to preserve organic life from then on, if you let the Geth live, they regret the destruction of their creators, but they are happy to survive.

The Crucible was added on by every cycle, the original idea was likely far outside the box, and you have to assume that the goal was synthesis from the start, the control or destruction options were viable and likely added later. Basically just because someone is advanced doesn't mean he has all the answers, just think about reality, there was a mathematician that came from India, Srinivasa Ramanujan. He was solving things that cultures much more advanced than him, couldn't even grasp.

The whole point of the story of mass effect, is sacrifice. I beat the game today, the ending felt very much like any other point in the story, heck something very similar happens with Mordin, and just so everyone is clear, pretty sure the child is a physical representation of Shepard's mind, the kid haunts him through out the game, and makes sense that he would project the kid.

I really hope that they do give us a different ending though, something that gives us back the mass relays and the citadel, to destroy those things, is to destroy the future of the series, and I think that is why most people are mad at this ending, because there is closure, just it doesn't allow the story to continue, it's an ending in a sea of games that leave the series open for a future.
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Really? you think that successive iterations of species with roughly the same technological level (within some margin) would be able to create, in a galactic game of telephone, a piece of technology that couldn't be invented by the species who created the reapers? The Protheans surprised the Reapers by being able to build a single mass relay, just the one. I think that speaks to the general level of technological development we see in these organic races.

And the difference between Mordin and Shepard is Mordin's end makes sense, we've known about the Genophage since ME1 and Mordin's involvement since ME2, his guilt and association with the project and our attachment the storyline and it's closing make it work. Shepard got hit by the ending bus out of nowhere driven by space casper fueled with space magic.
 
hamchan said:
I dunno, it should be pretty clear how awful the ending is on first viewing.
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Damn.

All the speculation about the Crucible and the Citadel's VI is making me disregard that part of the game entirely. I honestly have no more intention in "figuring out" how any of it works since the writers didn't care to do so.

Part of me wants to talk about it, but then I see no point in arguing about a plot device that was hardly, or not at all, explained.

Rezbit said:
Honestly I would rather it if the ending was just a picture of my Femshep and Liara laying on a beach sipping Mojitos, with a caption saying "Wish you were here xx." Instead we get an ending with an annoying kid, the Normandy is crashed god-knows-where, all Mass Relays are blown up, and FTL travel is not possible. That's balls. I get that ending on current day Earth!
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You'll never see those little blue babies.
 
I get the feeling that James Vega fits the idea of a DLC character more than Javik does, with Javik adding more to the story, which is why they made him DLC in the first place. It seems commonly understood at this point that Javik was not intended to be DLC when he was first created due to leaks.
 
squidyj said:
Really? you think that successive iterations of species with roughly the same technological level (within some margin) would be able to create, in a galactic game of telephone, a piece of technology that couldn't be invented by the species who created the reapers? The Protheans surprised the Reapers by being able to build a single mass relay, just the one. I think that speaks to the general level of technological development we see in these organic races.

And the difference between Mordin and Shepard is Mordin's end makes sense, we've known about the Genophage since ME1 and Mordin's involvement since ME2, his guilt and association with the project and our attachment the storyline and it's closing make it work. Shepard got hit by the ending bus out of nowhere driven by space casper fueled with space magic.
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To your entire first paragraph, yes, I believe an "inferior" culture can be creative, and come up with a solution that is a better idea than people who are smarter, it actually happens all the time, simple answers can be hard to think about when you are knee deep in solutions that take days to calculate. Especially if the answer comes from an AI, since they think generally inside the box.

I agree that the ending is bad, I don't like the way it basically closes the entire mass effect series, relays and citadel and all... But Shepard was prepaid to die from the very on set of the series, I just wish it had more closure for the player, and not just from the basic characters standpoints.

Basically I think the ending being a choice is 100% fitting to the series, sacrifices are also 100% fitting to the series, the real problem is just that Shepard doesn't make it out, and all the choices you have made up to this point are basically ignored, just to find an ending that fit with the theme.
 
Did Google and YT searches but couldn't find it yet...

So has anyone witnessed the secret bonus ending already?

This one:

There is a special reward available only to players who have imported a save from Mass Effect 2 with the Prejek Paddle Fish purchased by Commander Shepard.

If the Prejeck Paddle Fish survives through all of Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect 3 NG+, visit Liara’s quarters aboard the Normandy for a very special intel bonus!
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Edit: nvm, found it, it's bullshit

You can choose between a +10% increase for your powers, or in weapon damage, whereas usually it's only a 5% bonus.
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That is the one that you can give to the Krogan on the Citadel? I bought and sold it to him, so I'm not sure if that counts, or if you are required to keep it. I'll load up my game and see if I have a post game save.

edit: I have the fish, didn't read closely and realize it had to be a new game plus. I don't have the willpower to do that again. Who the hell does two new game +s with the same character, though. That shit cray.

To hateradio. The debate is boring, but I feel we should at least enlighten people who are okay with it as to why we have a problem. The 5 reasons article is good, but is there one that discusses how asinine the Vent Kid is? Hard to tell somebody to read the last 50 pages of the thread.
 
Things that bother me now.

-Anderson tells you about London way before the reapers capture the citadel and take it to earth. What was so special about London.

-Even then, just closing the damn teleport ray to the citadel would have made their strategy impenetrable. Why didn't they do that.
 
hamchan said:
I dunno, it should be pretty clear how awful the ending is on first viewing.
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The only things that is really awful about the ending is:
1. You don't make it out.
2. The entire series is pretty much dead after this. (no mass relays, Citadel, ect.)
3. None of your choices change any of this.

As for why it feels like part of the story, it goes with the theme of the entire story well, sacrifices, never really getting what you want, only what is needed... to be perfectly honest, I'm sure they will come up with a different ending, and I'll gladly accept it, but the ending didn't ruin the game for me, it just would of been nice if they didn't end the series, as I've beaten all the games and read all the books. Heck, I actually bought a 360 just for ME1. (on launch)
 
Hmmm why did the reapers move the Citadel to Earth instead of just ejecting it out from the galaxy or something, which would totally screw Shepard.
 
ElFly said:
Things that bother me now.

-Anderson tells you about London way before the reapers capture the citadel and take it to earth. What was so special about London.

-Even then, just closing the damn teleport ray to the citadel would have made their strategy impenetrable. Why didn't they do that.
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Devil's Advocate here

1. That is where they set up their base camp, and so they decided to bring the Citadel to their base.

2. They were beaming up humans for Reaper processing apparently. Why not hit the killswitch? Sure, yeah, that makes sense.
 
hamchan said:
Hmmm why did the reapers move the Citadel to Earth instead of just ejecting it out from the galaxy or something, which would totally screw Shepard.
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Because, the catalyst was part of the Citadel, and it controlled the reapers... and Earth was the most heavily defended point in the reaper fleet.
 
SerArthurDayne said:
Devil's Advocate here

1. That is where they set up their base camp, and so they decided to bring the Citadel to their base.

2. They were beaming up humans for Reaper processing apparently. Why not hit the killswitch? Sure, yeah, that makes sense.
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The whole "why not hit shut down the teleport ray" maybe was a silly question, since the only real answer is that the game plot needed it.

But the thing is, why process humans in the Citadel. Is the Citadel a reaper too? Or were they trying to upgrade the Citadel into a Reaper.

And, is it just me or it is implied that the Illusive Man was the one who brought the Citadel to Earth? Maybe I misunderstood something?
 
Nah. The Illusive Brah was indoctrinated, but he didn't realize it. So he told Reapers you knew what the Citadel could do, thinking this would actually help him achieve his own goals. Before he told them that information, he was already on the Citadel, or about to be. His plan was to have the Reapers panic, grab the citadel, and then he could get them all in one place and control them with the Reaper code from Sanctuary. At least I think so.

The theory is that the Citadel is probably where Reapers are usually made, so it is possible that the Reapers will create a human reaper, and then ship it off to Palaven, Thessia, etc.
 
Anyone have a link to the original script leak? I'm curious to see how the final story compared to it.
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here

I think we really need to update the OP, I'm seeing cycles repeating themselves with questions and speculation.

At the very least with the final hours app, updates on 'fan feedback', Marauder Shields, the original script....

And the damn video Bigjiantrobut has promised.
 
SerArthurDayne said:
Nah. The Illusive Brah was indoctrinated, but he didn't realize it. So he told Reapers you knew what the Citadel could do, thinking this would actually help him. Before he told them that he was on the Citadel, or about to be. His plan was to have the Reapers panic, grab the citadel, and then he could get them all in one place and control them with the Reaper code from sancturay. At least I think so.

The theory is that the Citadel is probably where Reapers are usually made, so it is possible that the Reapers will create a human reaper, and then ship it off to Palaven, Thessia, etc.
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Oh that makes some sense.

Ok another thing.

Why the fuck you have to shot at the Crucible controls to make it destroy the reapers? Who the fuck designed that? The space pirates from metroid? Maybe there's a fourth ending you can activate by rolling up in a ball and getting into some crevice.
 
ElFly said:
Oh that makes some sense.

Ok another thing.

Why the fuck you have to shot at the Crucible controls to make it destroy the reapers? Who the fuck designed that? The space pirates from metroid? Maybe there's a fourth ending you can activate by rolling up in a ball and getting into some crevice.
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Because the ending is bad. Why would Shepard walk towards a machine while shooting it so that the explosion blasts him/her right in the face?
 
Metroidvania said:
And the damn video Bigjiantrobut has promised.
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What is this video? I have seen mention of it once or twice, I believe, but I missed the genesis.

As for the crucible- the answer is that it is dumb space magic. There needed to be something tactile I guess, so you could think while you did a slow walk. There is a fourth (second) ending. You do nothing and you get a "The Crucible has been Destroyed" message.
 
ElFly said:
Oh that makes some sense.

Ok another thing.

Why the fuck you have to shot at the Crucible controls to make it destroy the reapers? Who the fuck designed that? The space pirates from metroid? Maybe there's a fourth ending you can activate by rolling up in a ball and getting into some crevice.
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I think it was to signify destruction, it could very well have been introduced to the crucible as a 3rd option, I believe the original goal of the crucible was to combined organic and artificial life. Remember each cycle had added something to the crucible, undoubtedly that is why it has 3 options, and it's great for plot reasons too. (just wish the choices actually changed the outcomes.)
 
z0m3le said:
I think it was to signify destruction, it could very well have been introduced to the crucible as a 3rd option, I believe the original goal of the crucible was to combined organic and artificial life. Remember each cycle had added something to the crucible, undoubtedly that is why it has 3 options, and it's great for plot reasons too. (just wish the choices actually changed the outcomes.)
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No. I doubt that was the original purpose, but I can't prove it either way. I seriously doubt that previous cycles anticipated space magic, though. Vent Kid makes up his three arbitrary choices on the spot. The Crucible is basically just a space laser that sends energy out.
 
SerArthurDayne said:
No. I doubt that was the original purpose, but I can't prove it either way. I seriously doubt that previous cycles anticipated space magic, though. Vent Kid makes up his three arbitrary choices on the spot. The Crucible is basically just a space laser that sends energy out.
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So, what purpose did it serve then? obviously it was meant to end the cycles and was created by a cycle after the genesis, if it's goal wasn't one of those 3 options, then what was it?

The Catalyst had nothing to do with those choices, he even says that the Crucible allowed for new choices that the kid couldn't control, nor would he choose any of them himself.

The Kid (who isn't a kid, it's just a damn projection of Shepard's mind, it likely doesn't actually look like a kid at all, think back to the Geth mission, the entire virtual world was transformed to fit something Shepard could relate to, and the kid had been on his mind the entire time, could of even been a trick to fool shepard into sympathizing with him.)

This whole space magic thing is a bit dumb, the Citadel acts like a transmitter, either shutting down all synthetics, controlling them, or joining them with organisms, it could be something as simple as a signal and possibly some nano bots for the joining.

Edit: I'm starting to think that the majority of hate against the ending is misplaced, and a lot of people just don't understand it.

The real reason to dislike this ending, at least in my opinion, is the consequences it leaves for the series, it pretty much is a complete end, never come back type of ending.
 
derFeef said:
His main complaims seems to be the lack of choice. His ending suggestions were terrible, that would not be endings. (Garrus was funny, though).
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I don't know about anyone else, but I totally wanted to be sitting on that beach with Garrus drinking a beer and talking about everything I had done with your love interest sitting next to us. I put in a lot of work from ME1 to be able to "win". To be able to walk away from the fight with the reapers in flames and Shep getting a heroes parade all while putting the universe on a path towards some real peace. Yeah, it's ultimately happy, but damn, I earned it. Which is why I'm glad they allowed us to walk away from the suicide mission with everyone alive. I was able to save everyone without a guide and on my first try. Felt good. I wanted the same in ME3.

Maybe other people are more fatalistic, but I play these games for the "happy ending". They're games and not real, so the option should be there. For those who want more screwed up endings those endings should be there, too. That's why there are options in the game. If a person does what they need to do, then they should be able to walk away feeling like a badass. Hell, it's Shepard, so we already know he's a badass. No problem with having an ending show that.
 
EDarkness said:
I don't know about anyone else, but I totally wanted to be sitting on that beach with Garrus drinking a beer and talking about everything I had done with your love interest sitting next to us. I put in a lot of work from ME1 to be able to "win". To be able to walk away from the fight with the reapers in flames and Shep getting a heroes parade all while putting the universe on a path towards some real peace. Yeah, it's ultimately happy, but damn, I earned it. Which is why I'm glad they allowed us to walk away from the suicide mission with everyone alive. I was able to save everyone without a guide and on my first try. Felt good. I wanted the same in ME3.

Maybe other people are more fatalistic, but I play these games for the "happy ending". They're games and not real, so the option should be there. For those who want more screwed up endings those endings should be there, too. That's why there are options in the game. If a person does what they need to do, then they should be able to walk away feeling like a badass. Hell, it's Shepard, so we already know he's a badass. No problem with having an ending show that.
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Even though I've played Devils Advocate, I really do hope for this optional ending in the future, I just don't think it changed my enjoyment of the series, I am mostly worried about the consequences of this ending... it literally destroys what is mass effect.
 
The purpose was to defeat the Reapers. It can do that. It also can be used for other things apparently, like controlling them. How or why I don't know. It doesn't really make sense, especially since nobody knew how to control them until the Illusive Brah and his Sanctuary experiments.

The only way that makes sense is if the kid is King Reaper, which he kind of implies, and the crucible puts him in a chokehold until he says uncle. His uncle is giving you the three options.

Like I said, it basically seems to be an amplifier more than anything. It is an energy device that uses the mass relays to send out a certain color of energy.

So basically, there are thousands of all powerful machines killing you for unknown reasons. I'm pretty sure the thought process doesn't run to let's turn ourselves into machines so they'll leave us alone. There is a logical leap there that nobody would be able to make because nobody has been given the information Shepard has.

Further, the green magic ending is like an afterthought. Space Casper is like: Oh, I also can do this. You don't even get the option unless your EMS is high enough, either. It also requires Space Jesus in order to do this. Why? I don't know, maybe because he is part synthetic? But previous cycles likely didn't have Space Jesus.

The Reapers have never really explained their braindead plan to anybody before. Therefore I can't see how somebody would have programmed the option into it.

Ultimately the crucible becomes a (bad) plot device.

z0m3le said:
Even though I've played Devils Advocate, I really do hope for this optional ending in the future, I just don't think it changed my enjoyment of the series, I am mostly worried about the consequences of this ending... it literally destroys what is mass effect.
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Honestly, that is my biggest problem with the ending. I hate it all, and it did sour my opinion of the series. But this is the aspect I hated the most about it, and it is also the aspect most likely to remain unchanged.
 
I like this short and concise summary of why the ending sucks. Unfortunately he does arrive at the conclusion that everything is so fucking bad it has to be indoctrination, but otherwise, sure.*

*_ ___________

It's inexcusable. Part of what drove me to write this analysis is that it is inconceivable to me that a professional writer could have produced this staggering degree of literary incompetence and I truly want to believe that it's all part of the plan - not necessarily for the sake of the Mass Effect story, but for the sake of my continued faith in human competence.
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