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Halo |OT5| Believe, Again

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daedalius said:
Trying to raise the level of discussion.
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It's more like digging into a pile of shit instead of simply going around it. There might a chuck of gold in there(like the one or two good posts he makes every leap year), but logic dictates you just don't bother with it after awhile.
 
Overdoz1z said:
Something similar to what Far Cry has would be amazing and it works well with a controller too. Best option would be a combination of Forge and what Far Cry has. So people who like to screw around in Forge can still do that while other people can focus on making maps that don't look like a bunch of grey blocks on a pile with the same blue and green colors in the background.
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If I were to do it, I'd build it off Trials and Far Cry.

Forge: what we have now. Object editor. Precision kill volumes.

Anvil: pro editor. Far Cry style. This is where you sculpt the land and place scenery.
 
Overdoz1z said:
Something similar to what Far Cry has would be amazing and it works well with a controller too. Best option would be a combination of Forge and what Far Cry has. So people who like to screw around in Forge can still do that while other people can focus on making maps that don't look like a bunch of grey blocks on a pile with the same blue and green colors in the background.
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isnt the far cry situation more like the trials editor, in that its basically what was used (though more paired down in far cry's case) to make the game? isnt this entirely different then how maps and campaign spaces are made in halo traditionally.
 
FyreWulff said:
It could have been, except for the fact that crouching with an 85DMR makes it zero bloom.

The only answer was RoF locking. Sorry, pacing under 100 wasn't that hard to learn. But if they're going to change it, change it in a way that doesn't throw the rest of the sandbox under the bus. As it is, might as well own up to it.
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1. Then its a risk/reward of becoming a slow target while crouching but getting a decrease in bloom. I find no problems with this.

2. Never said 100 pacing was hard to learn at all. I just felt it was excruciatingly slow. Like I start firing, maintaining a nice, steady cadence, a cadence similar to say using a marksman rifle in Battlefield 3. Not spamming the trigger, but allowing a nice rhythm. And what I find is that I bloom out.

I let out a sigh, grit my teeth, and start pacing at blooms intended rate. Short of measuring the exact times, I'll attempt to illustrate it here.

Zero Bloom: BoomBoomBoomBoomBoom
85 sweet spot: Boom-Boom-Boom-Boom-Boom
100: Boom---Boom---Boom---Boom---Boom

It just feels off.

and how much did it really affect the sandbox. Because to be quite honest, I didn't notice a difference at all.

DMR was a dominant weapon at 100. It's still dominant now. Is the AR now underpowered? At its optimal range a spamming 100 DMR would still beat it anyway.
 
op_ivy said:
isnt the far cry situation more like the trials editor, in that its basically what was used (though more paired down in far cry's case) to make the game? isnt this entirely different then how maps and campaign spaces are made in halo traditionally.
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Not really, the MP maps look quite different from the map editor ones.
 
op_ivy said:
isnt the far cry situation more like the trials editor, in that its basically what was used (though more paired down in far cry's case) to make the game? isnt this entirely different then how maps and campaign spaces are made in halo traditionally.
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I know the maps in recent Halo games have traditionally been built in 3dsmax and Maya, which is indeed much different than anything like Forge/Farcry/otherwise (and much more complicated).

I haven't seen Far Cry's map editor, so i can't speak to that.


Also ugh still discussing 100% bloom; its only tolerable in invasion because elite's have such giant hit-boxes.

FyreWulff said:
There's no risk to crouch firing across Hem or most other larger maps.
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Well, really, the DMR breaks hemo. Absolutely miserable map with DMRs everywhere.
 
heckfu said:
I saw you online last night or 2 nights ago on Choco, are you just keeping both or keeping a main one?
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I'm playing Halo on Choco since that's where I have everyone from HaloGAF on. I'll just use my new account for new games. You can remove the other one if you added it.
 
A27 Tawpgun said:
1. Then its a risk/reward of becoming a slow target while crouching but getting a decrease in bloom. I find no problems with this.
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There's no risk to crouch firing across Hem or most other larger maps.

DMR was a dominant weapon at 100. It's still dominant now. Is the AR now underpowered? At its optimal range a spamming 100 DMR would still beat it anyway.
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More than the AR were negatively affected by the change. It's broken. A change of that magnitude requires adjustments to most of the sandbox. Look at the Halo 2 Big Update. They didn't just change one weapon and called it a day. They changed just about everything.
 
Overdoz1z said:
Not really, the MP maps look quite different from the map editor ones.
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i guess what i'm trying to say (admittedly, unsuccessfully) is that cryengine operates differently then what halo has traditionally used. i've seen many clips of crytec devs working within their editor and it looks like a vastly more complicated version of the editor the allowed access to on consoles in far cry 2. but roughly the same editor nonetheless. its my understanding that levels are not created "on the fly" in any engine editor for the halo games, rather, they are imported in. of course, i could be incredibly naive on this...

from my limited understanding, the underlying tools for creating maps/spaces are vastly different between the halo games and cryengine games. its apples and oranges and why i never expected anything like the far cry editor in halo.
 
ViewtifulJC said:
I just don't see how intelligent users like Deadly and Hydra have to constantly feed into it, though. I mean, holy shit guys. The kid says the same shit every time, and you get upset about it every time. How you do not learn from that? Why do you have to respond every single time?
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Huh?

:P
 
FyreWulff said:
There's no risk to crouch firing across Hem or most other larger maps.



More than the AR were negatively affected by the change. It's broken. A change of that magnitude requires adjustments to most of the sandbox. Look at the Halo 2 Big Update. They didn't just change one weapon and called it a day. They changed just about everything.
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1. That's the DMR's problem anyway. Shit sucked at 100 also.

2. I guess I don't have an eye for these things. The only think the TU did to the weapon sandbox was made the DMR more consistent and fun to use. Sandbox felt the same to me.
 
Overdoz1z said:
People who complain about the AR being underpowered in TU should stop using the AR and start using the DMR.
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We're lucky they failed to get in plasma stun. We would have to play 6 months of being locked in place by Plasma Repeaters because they would have pushed it into the rest of non-Classic matchmaking like Bleedthrough.
 
op_ivy said:
from my limited understanding, the underlying tools for creating maps/spaces are vastly different between the halo games and cryengine games. its apples and oranges and why i never expected anything like the far cry editor in halo.
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The way you build maps in Cryengine isn't terribly different than the Halo construction I think; just for Halo everything is build in something like 3dsmax or Maya, then exported to their editor.

For Cryengine, you can build all of the geometry of the map within the editor.

I was messing around with environment building for a while, figured out I enjoy making things/props/characters in 3d quite a bit more than real-time gaming environments.
 
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Forge needs terrain editing and colors, that's all. Hopefully they can achieve this after 5 years of playing with lego sets :/

Seriously, terrain edition is the natural evolution of Forge World.

Give us covenant, forerunner and human pieces already.
 
In terms of number of maps, it really doesn't matter if there's 9 maps or 300 maps, as long as it comes out with at least one standout and one solid map in each rough kind of size/gametype. I think this was the Halo 2 model (which seems to be the gold standard in launch map quality) roughly so we get one great BTB map (Headlong), a great asym map (Zanzibar), and a couple of great arena maps (lockout and midship) and the rest is just a little variety/gravy, unless the map is just plain bad. The problem with Reach is it really lacked standouts (other than the few that stood out as terrible, amirit?), most of the maps were decent.

10 maps isn't really "Good enough" it's more like 10 maps is, "Not enough information to make a judgement."
 
I am guessing 4 small maps, 3 medium, 3 large. Not including some possible Forge creations (I believe 343 have said this).


Gabotron ES said:
Forge needs terrain editing and colors, that's all. Hopefully they can achieve this after 5 years of playing with lego sets :/

Seriously, terrain edition is the natural evolution of Forge World.

Give us covenant, forerunner and human pieces already.
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The minimum it needs:

Less gray grey and SSAO and/or dynamic lighting, which I believe Halo 4 will have, so they shouldn't look like puke green and grey anymore.

Terrain editor will be cool, I think they will do it but it won't bother me either way.
 
neoism said:
sorry about my cousin.. he's 17 and thinks he is black....
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Is his name Bennett?

Steelyuhas said:
Well just the first season of Spartan Ops is free (not really free just included in the cost of the game as their co-op mode). You can bet your life that any further seasons will be paid DLC, alongside War Games DLC always being paid DLC.
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I completely agree that seasons past 1 (if they happen) will not be free - I just wanted to clarify that regular campaign is co-op as well; Spartan Ops is a bonus (a very cool bonus).

Der Flatulator said:
Slow progress sketching up Haven, but I've almost finished the very basic layout. Still need gravity lifts, a couple of rooms, some rounded playspaces and a few other things, but I thought I'd show my progress, I may have it drastically wrong...
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This looks great to me. I'm not someone who catches every detail - but that looks like what I played on, for the most part. :)

Overdoz1z said:
Has anyone even used the Needler at E3? I vaguely remember someone mentioning it's now closer to a power weapon.
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I used it a couple of times. It's definitely a faster killer than Reach's Needler (which really isn't a slouch if you can keep it on your target). I didn't feel like it was Rocket-Launcher Power Weapon class.

In other news, I think Halo Reach Matchmaking accidentally confused my gamertag with 'The Henery':

backpack_isnt_big_enough.png

(I mean, holy crap, it was three guys on one screen on the opposing team... AND ALL THREE WENT POSITIVE!) And the dude on my team who had a negative score? He wasn't trolling - he was just really, really bad (and kept accidentally falling off the map).
 
EuropeOG said:
I am guessing 4 small maps, 3 medium, 3 large. Not including some possible Forge creations (I believe 343 have said this).




The minimum it needs:

Less gray grey and SSAO and/or dynamic lighting, which I believe Halo 4 will have, so they shouldn't look like puke green and grey anymore.

Terrain editor will be cool, I think they will do it but it won't bother me either way.
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Reach already had SSAO, so Halo 4 likely will, but I don't think Halo 4 will have full dynamic lighting and shadows. Lighting in Halo has always been pre-baked lightmaps, with modulative shadows (some dynamic objects like characters darkening the scene where the shadows are cast) and a few dynamic lights that don't cast shadows for things like grenades, gunfire, etc.

I don't expect a full change in the tech before the next generation of consoles.
 
ElzarTheBam said:
Ar-eeeeeeeet

So which part of northern England are you from? I'm from County Durham
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Stoke-on-Trent, which I realise isn't Northern England but we sound Northern so I class myself as Northern.

And yes I realise it has a bed rep, but I live practically in the countryside in a pretty middle- to upper-class estate. So I'm sort of posh, like.
 
Der Flatulator said:
  1. Construct
  2. Epitaph
  3. Guardian
  4. High Ground
  5. Isolation
  6. Last Resort
  7. Narrows
  8. Sandtrap
  9. Snowbound
  10. The Pit
  11. Valhalla

Halo 4 will probably ship with 12-13.
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Not sure why your disputing an already confirmed fact about the game. Halo 4 will ship with 10 War Games maps, and that is less than Halo 3 or Halo 2 (or Halo CE if were counting).

They properly labeled Forge environments just that, "environments". They are placed to forge on, they are not maps.

Louis Wu said:
I completely agree that seasons past 1 (if they happen) will not be free - I just wanted to clarify that regular campaign is co-op as well; Spartan Ops is a bonus (a very cool bonus).
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Ah yes, I was just referring to it as their dedicated co-op game mode similar to Firefight, Spec Ops, Zombies, Horde, etc.
 
daedalius said:
The way you build maps in Cryengine isn't terribly different than the Halo construction I think; just for Halo everything is build in something like 3dsmax or Maya, then exported to their editor.

For Cryengine, you can build all of the geometry of the map within the editor.
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but thats my entire point. cryengine is setup that way. the halo engine is not. to build tools to create map/space geometry for forge would be a colossal undergoing.
 
thee henery said:
Yup. Colour palette and performance issues in regard to the framerate and number of players on the map at once are the two priorities for Forge this time around.

Another thing - I don't want good community made maps to be locked out of MM because they can't support a 12 year old and his three buddies four way split screening. Guests should be limited to one, Team Training style list and then the rest of MM can be prioritised for paying customers of i) an Xbox ii) Halo 4 and iii) a Gold account.
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Ranked/Social split would do that.
 
I don't think Kyle is trolling I thInk it's just reasonable to expect updates to most of the suite of tools halo has offered in the past and to add on some of the features of other games in the fps console genre , 60 fps, dedis. I mean it is halo after all where the fuck is all the money going? But sadly were getting more of the same it appears after they slowly confirm almost all the ideas communities such as gaf and mlg etc decide would be great for us the people that play their game cause sure as hell they don't. So I think it's fair if some of us are pessimistic
 
Deadly Cyclone said:
I believe they confirmed campaign co-op as well.

I do wonder who you'll play through. Maybe same as reach, extra Spartans.
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That's a tricky one to explain in the fiction, the extra characters when playing Co-op campaign. They made some attempt at it in Halo 3 by having the extra characters play Elites that even had their own names and back stories (not in game, but as extra info on bungie.net).
 
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