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Halo |OT5| Believe, Again
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
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Tha Robbertster
Member
I'm not going to Gamescom anymore either. No reason to check out games from consoles I don't play on.
That's in England, right?
That's in England, right?
Blue Ninja
Member
Look guys, I can tell you this. A year from now, the majority of the people worshipping 343 and foaming at the mouths for Halo 4 will be bitching about it, saying it sucks. They'll say it was disappointing and that they expected more.
Last time I got hyped for a Halo game, I got burned bad. This time around, I'm only expecting the worst. At best, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
There's nothing wrong with being excited for a game, but Kyle occasionally makes some valid points. Don't go crucifying him because it's not what you want to hear.
Last time I got hyped for a Halo game, I got burned bad. This time around, I'm only expecting the worst. At best, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
There's nothing wrong with being excited for a game, but Kyle occasionally makes some valid points. Don't go crucifying him because it's not what you want to hear.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I can fully understand this, it's not your wants or expectations I take issue with it's the way you express it by sarcastic jabs at 343 over and over. It's funny for a while, but we get it now, we understand what your expectations are. I just don't think there's a need to sarcastically post "believe" and "trust us" every 3 posts just for impact.
I think you've got some great opinions on the game itself, and I agree with a few of them, you just seem to undermine those opinions each time by stooping to petty jabs at 343 and everyone else.
Just my two cents. I really don't hate anyone here, some just get on my nerves more than others.
Poker Face
Member
You don't say?
Once everyone get past the "honeymoon phase".
Blue Ninja
Member
"LIGHTRIFLE IS GONNA BE THE BEST THING EVER!"
FFW>>FFW>>FFW>>One Year Later
"Goddammit this shit sucks."
Hydranockz
Member
We have all different enemies.
What have you heard about Forge that even hints it won't be substancially better?
All talk, none of it 'realistic' when you take it into account.
I personally love your obsession with Trials... Yeah,.you know, the game is the map editor. That's all they used to make all of the tracks. Tweaked physics from the first game. Brake, accelerate AND bail? So much to program! That is exactly why it is an arcade game and not a AAA title.
They spent an awful lot of dev time on that one feature as it was the basis for their game. Halo? Not so much.
What realist uses that as a basis for expectation?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Well, if past behavior is any indicator he's right. Halo 3 and Reach had the same reaction he's talking about. It's the thing I spoke about about a month ago where people get the idea "everything old is better than anything new" syndrome.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Not sure I will be in that boat. I still enjoy Reach for what it is. Yeah, it has some broken mechanics (armor lock, bloom) but it's still a blast to play when you get a group together. I have yet to hate a Halo game. I have gripes with them (Halo 2 SMG, wtf) but most of them I can find the fun for me.
I'm still in the honeymoon phase. Reach cooks me breakfast in the morning!
Poker Face
Member
Well it's obviously going to happen, thats what I meant with my post.
Also I don't think what Kyle says is unreasonable most of the time. We're getting a multiplayer sequel to Reach, and not Halo 3. The logical evolution is an evolution of Reach, with similar movement speed and jump height to Halo 3.
Hydranockz
Member
Reach nags when I leave the seat up.
Der Flatulator
Member
- There ARE new enemies in the Campaign
- There WILL be more maps shipped than Halo Reach and Halo 3
- Forge WILL be substantially better
Poker Face
Member
I thought Halo 3 shipped with 11 or 12? And we don't know forge will be better after what bsangel said in the update last night.
People divide opinions to much in one either being an pessimist or optimist. Im in the middle myself, some things Im super exited and other things worry me about the game. The problem however, some steer so much in one direction that is really tiring when they bring the same point over and over again.
Every little bit of news that comes is looked at from such a negative point of view, often masked by ridiculous hyperbole. Its not that their opinion is invalid, its just the repeating is annoying and unnecessarily created this divide in the community. Actually discuss and rationalize your point instead of flinging it like poop at the wall and see who is going to complain about it.
Every little bit of news that comes is looked at from such a negative point of view, often masked by ridiculous hyperbole. Its not that their opinion is invalid, its just the repeating is annoying and unnecessarily created this divide in the community. Actually discuss and rationalize your point instead of flinging it like poop at the wall and see who is going to complain about it.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Hipster.
Der Flatulator
Member
- Construct
- Epitaph
- Guardian
- High Ground
- Isolation
- Last Resort
- Narrows
- Sandtrap
- Snowbound
- The Pit
- Valhalla
Halo 4 will probably ship with 12-13.
Directly from the bulletin:Pok3R Fac3D said:
Really wish Frankie hadn't said a thing about Forge. He could've just said that Forge will be in Halo 4 and they won't say anything about it until they reveal it. Instead he continues 343's trend of only half explaining what he's talking about which is frustrating at times.
No, shipped at 11 maps. Only one more than Halo 4.
Getting that feeling because of the DLC afterwards. Ten launch maps, fine, but the 9 announced DLC maps after just puts the count at 19. Awfully lower than previous Halo's before it.
Quantity isn't my beef with the launch maps. It'll be quality, so if those maps are fairly good it won't be a problem and players won't complain. Gotta hope the DLC is incorporated nicely in MM also otherwise, we'll probably be seeing those forged environments as your extra variety.
ElzarTheBam
Member
So Robbert passed his exams? Congrats babe or what we in northern England would sometimes say, back of the net son!
(something holland is unfamiliar with, I see).
<3
(something holland is unfamiliar with, I see).
<3
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
There's 10 base maps and Frank hinted there will also be some forge maps (halo 4).
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
At the very least for Forge I expect them to give us a better color palate, or even textures for objects. I think that alone would go a long way to prevent the Reach syndrome of Forge maps.
A Far Cry style editor would be awesome, but I don't think it's that 343 can't do that kind of editor, it's that Halo doesn't lend itself well to a full map editor, and who knows how the engine works on the back end.
If we get an expanded Forge with more interesting pieces and different colors/themes I'd be happy.
A Far Cry style editor would be awesome, but I don't think it's that 343 can't do that kind of editor, it's that Halo doesn't lend itself well to a full map editor, and who knows how the engine works on the back end.
If we get an expanded Forge with more interesting pieces and different colors/themes I'd be happy.
squidhands
Member
It's more akin to messing with a bad tooth. Just can't stop in spite of the uncomfortableness.
The biggest difference between the two would be creating a unique space that has it's own style and can be used for the long haul of matchmaking, assuming the design is well thought out. Having the ability to make a play-space that resembles the visual quality of the developer made maps can go a tremendously long way in someone's consideration of whether the map is worthwhile or not.
Aesthetics are not the only reason. With the current iteration of Forge, you're taking pieces and forcing them to make some sort of a whole, and it's been proven that doing that WILL cause problems with a map's framerate. Having a true map editor would allow amateur designers free reign to actually create their ideas from scratch and can really focus on making changes to the design solely for gameplay purposes rather than constantly having to worry about performance (this assumes that a performance meter would be built into the editor).
Arguments can be made as to why a lego-block style of map creator is still relevant (less tools can make you think more abstractly about how to achieve your goal), but I really think it's time for Halo to let go of the kid's toys and allow the adults to step up and show what we've got to offer (virtual resume, bitches!)
Tha Robbertster
Member
Thanks guys! And no, I don't have the faintest clue what you're talking about :lol
The Henery
Member
Yup. Colour palette and performance issues in regard to the framerate and number of players on the map at once are the two priorities for Forge this time around.
Another thing - I don't want good community made maps to be locked out of MM because they can't support a 12 year old and his three buddies four way split screening. Guests should be limited to one, Team Training style list and then the rest of MM can be prioritised for paying customers of i) an Xbox ii) Halo 4 and iii) a Gold account.
All of their design talk was mooted when they failed to RoF lock the DMR along with the bloom changes. The sandbox is now harmed, but they might as well own up to it by throwing the switch.
Are we having a meta discussion in here today?
Also, I think forge is a lego style system because amateur map makers likely don't realize how incredibly complicated map making can be with all the tech we have built into those editors now-a-days. Especially trying to do this building with a controller and not a mouse/keyboard.
If you want to build maps, download Unreal Editor, load up a map, and have fun having your mind blown.
Also 100% bloom/bloom in general is awful. I would have much preferred they just changed the DMR to zero-bloom and locked the firing rate, however that may have been out of the scope of their changes.
Also, I think forge is a lego style system because amateur map makers likely don't realize how incredibly complicated map making can be with all the tech we have built into those editors now-a-days. Especially trying to do this building with a controller and not a mouse/keyboard.
If you want to build maps, download Unreal Editor, load up a map, and have fun having your mind blown.
Also 100% bloom/bloom in general is awful. I would have much preferred they just changed the DMR to zero-bloom and locked the firing rate, however that may have been out of the scope of their changes.
Yep; September IIRC.
Glad to see more northerners in here.
O'raight.
ElzarTheBam
Member
The Librarian
Banned
The most basic definition, I think, of kill-streaks is this: Any reward given to the player for his/her performance (kills or otherwise) during a match. So, yes, in that way ordninance drops in Infinity Slayer are kill-streaks. Players then use this reward to get more kills. They're very, very similar, though kill-streaks in CoD like the stealth bomber are more on the nose. You also have more passive kill-streaks in CoD too.
There can always be a light and pro version of the editor similar to how Trials does it.
Sure, but Forge is still too complex for most people to bother with (trying to finagle spawn zones is beyond the ability of 90% of the people who just go in there to screw around) but not complex enough for people who could make something truly great if they were given the tools to do so. That leaves us at this weird junction where nothing great can be created due to the restrictions of the system, but instead we end up with a bunch of middling efforts, some of which have a seed of brilliance that wasn't able to break through. I also would never underestimate the hardcore mapmakers. If they had a way to play their creations in the game, they'd learn whatever they needed to make that happen.
They just need to give us their new versions of Sapien and Guerrilla and let us do the work for them.
I agree, but if this is going to happen, its not going to happen on the xbox with a controller either. If they built a forge app of some sort you could download to your PC, then sure.
A light and pro version could work, you'd just need a capable computer to run the pro version. Also not sure how they would handle custom stuff; going to allow full custom textures and geometry? Trying to build custom geometry with a controller is lol-worthy.
There's being cynical like Kyle, and then there's being hopelessly optimistic like this. Don't think Halo 4 will do anything more than it said it was going to do. You put too much faith in them, considering they themselves said its shipping with 10 maps. Whether one of those is a Forge World type thing is yet to be revealed. No one knows how that works yet, but keep your expectations in line, be surprised during the reveal or satisfied with 10.
That's not to say 343 is lazy or anything, I can only imagine a ton of effort has been going in to Spartan Ops.
ROF locking the DMR would help balance the sandbox under Zero Bloom settings. Zero Bloom with default settings, namely default movement speed, is garbage.
To me, 85 creates a very comfortable firing rate. Even before the TU, when I pick up a DMR, I fire it the way I think it should be fired. And when I do I max out bloom. In order to pace I need to fire at a pace I think is unnaturally slow. It doesn't feel right. With 85, the pacing lines up with my expected ROF.
But whatever, to each their own. Some people prefer the rock paper scissors style of Halo gameplay where every weapon is used. I have no problems with that. It creates a level of variety, no matter how shallow I think it is. I just think there's far more depth to the game at precision weapon starts.
To me, they could completely axe the AR and its equivalents and I would be perfectly ok with that. I feel they add nothing to the sandbox other than being user friendly, easy guns to start out with. And I find them terribly boring to use.
Der Flatulator
Member
That was amazing!
It could have been, except for the fact that crouching with an 85DMR makes it zero bloom.
The only answer was RoF locking. Sorry, pacing under 100 wasn't that hard to learn. But if they're going to change it, change it in a way that doesn't throw the rest of the sandbox under the bus. As it is, might as well own up to it.
Kyle isn't trolling 343, he is trolling you guys. He is repeating the same things, literally hundreds of times, or moving the goalposts to invent new criticism. This is his hobby. When his criticism is valid, its not new, but you're letting him dominate conversation with endless repetition or absurd straw men. After realizing he was literally just here to remind everyone how bad everything is - including things that never existed, I put him on ignore - but that barely works because of the frequency he does his hobby and the frequency at which his repetition is quoted.
His post history is amazing.
I love how it all fits. Crazy.
squidhands
Member
Yep. If you look at what happened with Halo 3, people took something that wasn't intended to create a new play space and did just that before Foundry even came out. Reach's Forge only solved a couple of issues that people had with Foundry/Sandbox, and really only showed what Halo 3's Forge should have been to begin with. I was really hoping for something drastically improved upon with Halo 4 and, despite the wording of the update, I remain cautiously optimistic.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I just don't see how intelligent users like Deadly and Hydra have to constantly feed into it, though. I mean, holy shit guys. The kid says the same shit every time, and you get upset about it every time. How you do not learn from that? Why do you have to respond every single time?
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Hey, I don't respond every time. It builds up a bit.
Just seems every time I refresh HaloGaf there are 2 new kylej posts talking about how Halo 4 is doomed. He is like that dude holding the sign that says "The World is Ending!"
I'll just ignore it from now on, didn't mean to create a scene.
Also this. I know Kyle has some actual talking points that would make good discussion, I just can't pick them out between the "believe!" and "trust us" comments.
Trying to raise the level of discussion.
Something similar to what Far Cry has would be amazing and it works well with a controller too. Best option would be a combination of Forge and what Far Cry has. So people who like to screw around in Forge can still do that while other people can focus on making maps that don't look like a bunch of grey blocks on a pile with the same blue and green colors in the background.
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