But that article hits the nail on the head - will MS take away a trump card of its own Surface? I think it's an extremely tough decision to make. The future of computing is moving away from the PC, so MS gaining a significant foothold in the tablet world (along with the accompanying content distribution system and marketplace) would be huge for MS going forward. It might make more sense to wait 2 years before releasing an iOS version. There's absolutely zero risk that businesses are going to switch to another word processing software, so I think the ipad Word market isn't going any place.
Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
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But that article hits the nail on the head - will MS take away a trump card of its own Surface? I think it's an extremely tough decision to make. The future of computing is moving away from the PC, so MS gaining a significant foothold in the tablet world (along with the accompanying content distribution system and marketplace) would be huge for MS going forward. It might make more sense to wait 2 years before releasing an iOS version. There's absolutely zero risk that businesses are going to switch to another word processing software, so I think the ipad Word market isn't going any place.
Which one did you get? I'm considering the UX32VD for its discrete graphics and upgradeable ssd & ram.
You can be pretty sure it will be a limited version like the webapps.... otherwise they would have had a metro version for win8's launch.
I do expect them to release office for the ipad/android but will be limited like it is currently with the webapp for basic editing only. The "real" office will always be superior and have more features on windows.
got the i5 128gb version. Was back and forth between it and the D, but dont really play many games on my computer, wanted as thin as I could get and wanted to avoid the heat. The D looks like one of the best choices for a nicely specced ultrabook thats semi-capable for gaming... didn't know the hard drive was swappable because that was the biggest drawback (no SSD)
Surface Pro can't really be compared to an ultra book. It is a different form factor entirely. Microsoft seems to get it, Asus doesn't. People want an iPad that can do more things, not a laptop with a detachable keyboard.
I can see the Surface Pro doing real well in the corporate space.
I can see the Surface Pro doing real well in the corporate space.
The device itself is amazing, there is no denying that. the device is worth 1000 dollars, I know that. My point is if anyone thinks MS does not want this to be an "iPad killer" you are wrong. They want this to destroy the iPad but it has no chance unless they price it to do just that. That is one fact they can't get around. No matter how amazing of a device it ends up being.
Now, if the business world jump on this with open arms we may have a different story but even then I still believe it has to be priced very aggressively to compete with the iPad, even in the business world.
So, it's exactly like any laptop ever made, only now you can scribble notes instead of type them.
I don't see the grand innovation really, and I doubt that many are going to be climbing over each other to get this.
Especially in a business sense, I can see a real solid keyboard and trackpad being of much more benefit compared to a touch display in this case.
Maybe in creative sectors though.
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
honestly its like you toke the words right out of my mouth. i am so hyped for this gen, for this reason alone.
A limited version is basically useless for me :\ So I hope you're wrong (but fear you are right).
I would assume the PRO is targeted at the enthusiasts and busniess types while the RT is aimed at the casual buyers.
if the RT is priced at $600 and comes with wayne and the keyboard cover it will be very attractive for casuals
There hasn't been any innovation from apple and yet the products sell.
In the busniess world the surface pro will be a big deal. It will replace multiple devices for a user while the ipad and mba don't .
If your commuting to and from work do you want to carry a surface or a MBA + tablet or any other two devices ?
If your constantly switching between devices do you want to take the chance that you wont have a document you need on the device you took that day from the office ?
Dropbox says hello.
Even MS OneNote on iPad uses SkyDrive.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Not putting your software on other popular devices and making your suite the definitive product is taking away your trump card. Arbitrarily exclusive software means dick now.
Most of us choose the software we use based on if it works with everything we've got. If something doesn't sync across everything I own in some way, I don't use it.
I don't know, I just don't see any tablet device really improving workflow for anyone compared to a good ultrabook. I'll freely admit that I don't work in a corporate environment though, so I don't really know what iPads are used for from day-to-day.
I never saw the iPad as a business device, just entertainment.
So what does the iPad get used for in business normally? Not talking specifically about PR representatives or something, just normal office workers.
Assuming they add Dropbox support in that's a great solution for personal users but most people working on Excel and Word documents are doing it for companies, those people want access to their shared network folders and they want it to work over their VPN connection.
Same deal with Skydrive, great personal solution, but it's not a business solution.
iPad has great built-in VPN support.
Network folders? You can have SMB access in apps. Probably other types of network sharing as well.
abstract alien
Member
Could someone point me in the direction of good hands-on reports and videos on the keyboards, if they exist that is?
Absolutely not true. When it comes to word processing, there are no other options, really, at least in the business world.
My firm has an app that allows us to access that shared drive on our ipads. Or, at least it does in theory. None of us can get it to work.
I'd be okay with $599 if that was for the 32GB and it's confirmed to be running nVidia Wayne, even if I'd prefer it to be a 1080p screen.
If this is just a Tegra 3 though, not sure I can swallow the price even if the design is amazing. I'll be waiting to see how competitors' units compare.
For a variety of reasons, Android is not anything to go by. It's a very different situation
Absolutely no on?
Uh huh ...
We know all the specs?
Form-factor and build quality mean nothing? How does Apple sell computers?
Actually ... you really aren't going to find much better pricing anyway. Not a large delta
Which is exactly what MS is (finally) going after. Thank god.
it depends on the user and what they need to do. I work at a school but even there at meetings yo uhave some on big laptops , some on ultra portables and some on ipads . Those on ipads normaly don't take alot of notes and normal just use it for presenting information in meetings like graphs .
An ultrabook is a good tool but at the end of the day its a laptop form factor which can be a good and bad thing. The surface is able to replicate that form factor while being a true tablet. So its the best of both worlds. Its also quite small and light so its really easy to carry .
How fast ist the Pro?
Right now I have a ~5 year old Macbook. It has a Core 2 Duo 2 Ghz, 2 GB of RAM and I believe an Intel GMA 3000 integrated GPU (which is basically too slow for 1080p videos).
This is my main machine. I always run at least one browser that has lots of tabs open and a handful of smaller apps such as Skype. At times I run OpenOffice or an IDE such as Eclipse.
This machine is getting a bit too slow for me and I'd like to replace it within a year.
Now I'm wondering how much faster the Surface Pro is compared to the Macbook and if it would be enough for my needs.
Right now I have a ~5 year old Macbook. It has a Core 2 Duo 2 Ghz, 2 GB of RAM and I believe an Intel GMA 3000 integrated GPU (which is basically too slow for 1080p videos).
This is my main machine. I always run at least one browser that has lots of tabs open and a handful of smaller apps such as Skype. At times I run OpenOffice or an IDE such as Eclipse.
This machine is getting a bit too slow for me and I'd like to replace it within a year.
Now I'm wondering how much faster the Surface Pro is compared to the Macbook and if it would be enough for my needs.
Anything you buy off the shelves right now will be faster than your Macbook.
The surface Pro would easily suit your needs.
By the end of the year, iPad sales are expected to reach 100 million. Microsoft can't and won't ignore a market that large. Especially when they are, at the end of the day, a software company. They will probably make more on selling a copy of Office to an iPad user than they will selling an entire SurfaceRT package. Why leave all that money on the table just so you can prop up a platform with very low margins?
If Office is on OSX, I'm not sure why they wouldn't port it to iOS as well.
http://www.microsoft.com/global/surface/en/us/renderingassets/surfacespecsheet.pdf
Those are the only specs we have so far.... but they did say core i5 at the keynote so you could also assume the 4000 graphics too.
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
You mean thanking Sony who made the VAIO X505 in 2004which Apple cloned with the MBA.
thats fine, apple cloned that and made it not ass ugly
You mean thanking Sony who made the VAIO X505 in 2004
Yeah, some seriously short memories here. Or should I say great marketing by Apple.
What Microsoft and its OEMs do not want is another netbook situation, where devices must be sold with razor thin profit margins. If MS is selling at a loss, that leaves almost nothing for the OEMs who have to not only have to produce similar hardware, but have to pay an expensive license fee to run WindowsRT.
Bundling in both the keyboard and a free copy of Office indicates they may be going for a "high price but good value" proposition. I think it's at least conceivable that Microsoft wants to carve out the upper end of the product range. What is the point in competing with Apple if you cannot make Apple-sized profits? What do they win if every SurfaceRT sale costs them both money and an Office license?
Marty Chinn
Member
Is Dropbox an option for every business though? For sensitive documents, you don't really want to be storing them on a third party server like that.
That's just not true in the business world. Often times platforms are picked based on the software they need to use. If something doesn't support Office, and the business needs it, chances are they don't pick that platform. Photoshop would be another example. Given how dominant Windows is in the business world, and how iPad adoption is still early, there's really not a lot of reason to hand over that trump card if Microsoft really wants to push themselves forward in the tablet market. It's still early enough in the game that they can hold and take advantage of that leverage. It would almost be like allowing Halo to be released on a Sony platform at this stage in the game.
The difference is that iOS and iPad are seen more as luxury consumption devices and less of a productive devices at this point in time. Business adoption is still early on this front so it's something that Microsoft can take advantage of at this point in time.
MS is pushing institutions towards Office 365 with ADFS. As long as Office on iOS can sync with Office 365, I think it's a nice cloud solution for enterprise.
If not, there's always itunes sync.
It will definitely be able to sync via Sharepoint, which is included in Office365 and which companies can also have locally on site.
thats fine, apple cloned that and made it not ass ugly
So true.
So they would rather give Office away with every Surface than they would sell it to million upon millions iPad owners? What is the endgame in selling very low-margin hardware to businesses, then giving them a free copy of the only software they were going to buy from you?
Marty Chinn
Member
Their endgame is to take a foothold of the tablet market rather than handing it completely over to Apple. A big source of their current revenue comes from selling to businesses. Being able to push a Windows tablet as the tablet to have for a business means establishing yourself so that not only now but in the future upgrades will be a Windows based tablet because people will have been entrenched with the software as is. There's plenty of incentive for the short term and especially the long term.
You mean thanking Sony who made the VAIO X505 in 2004
Because it has a nipple and no trackpad.
They won't be giving it away. Surface RT comes with Office Home. Businesses would still be paying for Office.
It doesn't have Outlook but all versions of Windows 8 come with an Activesync mail client.
What good is it to gain a foothold in the tablet market if you have to give away the business software that actually generates your profits?
I can imagine this if Microsoft really does want to become another Apple -- making software exclusive to their platform and then selling hardware at a huge markup. The problem is that Apple doesn't have hardware OEMs that will undercut them at every turn.
In a world where iOS and Android are effectively "free" and OSX is $30 per upgrade, it does seem like MS is going to have to transition away from their old model. Mobile Apps have pretty much changed people's expectations of software pricing as well. So perhaps it isn't a bad time to look into producing some slick hardware with decent margins. If that's the case though, the people praying for a sub-$500 model are probably in for a shock.
Windows RT comes with Word, Excel, One Note, and Power Point. What other apps would most businesses need? Could they sell those apps for the same price they currently sell Office?
USB port, HDMI port, and free office. Also keyboard on the cover (regardless of whether I have to pay for it separately or not).
Obviously none of this might matter to many but some of it may matter to some.
Wiktor
Member
People still want laptops more than tablets. I think Laptops hybids will outsell Surface-pro like tablets
A lot of businesses have in-house software as well, so RT isn't a good fit in many cases.
Home editions of Office prohibit commercial use in the TOS. The TOS could be ignored by smaller businesses, but larger ones will just add RT licenses to the pile they are already buying.
That's what confuses me about the business argument for both iPad and SurfaceRT. Are these companies going to distribute all their custom software on the App Store and Windows Marketplace? Are they suddenly going to switch all their x86 software over to ARM?
I think it will be a while before there are tablets really suitable for large scale business adoption (cheap and compatible with legacy software).
So then where is the harm in porting Office to iOS with the same TOS restrictions?
Yeah, that's a big deal to me too. I understand that Apple wanted to keep things dead simple for the iPad, but seriously, that's a bit much. I want to be able to easily transfer and retrieve files on a tablet.
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