because the nexus line is made by other phone manufacturers and at best is on par with the other phones.
The surface completely craps on everything shown off at compturex
Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
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because the nexus line is made by other phone manufacturers and at best is on par with the other phones.
The surface completely craps on everything shown off at compturex
You don't pay that much per windows 8 license either
That has nothing to do with it.
Microsoft has a 20 year history as a software partner to hardware OEMs. Android is just about 4-5 years old. That's the difference.
Actually what he just said and you just said are the same thing.
Google contracts with Samsung and ASUS to make its Nexus lineup.
Microsoft just said fuck you to its partners and made its own machine when it has basically let all the other OEMs do whatever they please for the past decades.
MS has no products in the laptop , desktop and phone markets. They have 1 device in the tablet market.
These companys just can't keep up and the premium no bloatware products are going to eat into their bottom line because they make money screw customers
By the way, you see that Carmody just got our first Top 100 prospect.
3 of those statements are true:
He's an undersized guard
He's not particularly fast
He's black
He's a good shooter
Yes I see the Wildcats boards, tweets, and blogs raving about this piece of news. Also, some CBS alumni are saying that Drew Crawford is beasting over the summer.
Whatever. Yay for mediocrity.
This is me hating on Carmody.
I wish.
Also, what the fuck, there are Northwestern sports boards? Who would waste their time on that shit?
:lol I can see a following for football. Everything else though...
We're talking about the Windows 8 that has a chance to be successful.
This is my first time looking at this thing. wow, i'm very impressed. the pro model will be my main computing device. I was going to get an iPad 2 but now I'll wait for this hawtness. I don't care how much it sells. Really, appleites look silly with their sales obsessions. "ohh, it will sell nothing compared to iPad!" Who cares. People who think that way must also think the top 40 is the best music in the world
The Surface team is paying the same amount for a W8 license as the OEMs.
The surface team doesn't have the same worry about going under because of it.
So now the license is $105?
I'd say this is a case of purple monkey dishwasher, but coming from you it's difficult to avoid agenda speculation
Are you sure anyone can build 7 inch winrt tablet? I have heard otherwise. Something to do with dpi requirement.
Plus the licneses fee will kill any potential cheap tablet anyway.
Did MS actually put this factoid in a press release? Because if it is, they are basically rubbing it in to the OEMs.
You don't pay that much for any liscense of windows 8 . Oems pay about $75 for 7
You need X res to have side by side apps.
MS will make an exception for barnes and noble and then barnes and dnoble will have their own little market niche.
Barnes and noble will put ms's store on their tablet and in turn they will most likely get windows 8 for a low price and be able to custimise it a bit to look more like a book device. Barnes and noble will also most likely get to sell their nook software without giving a % to ms.
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...t-dust-immune-and-almost-ready-for-prime-time
I wonder if ms can use this in the surface. It makes almost no noice and is very efficent they claim 30 times more efficent than fan and heatsink solutions .
If they have this for the surface i can see why it wont be ready to 2013 .
If you skip foward in the video to when they put the cover on the motor it becomes almost quiet. It starts at 3:24 for the sound issue.
They can make a much thinner verison and it would be amazing if it works as well as they claim.
I wonder if ms can use this in the surface. It makes almost no noice and is very efficent they claim 30 times more efficent than fan and heatsink solutions .
If they have this for the surface i can see why it wont be ready to 2013 .
If you skip foward in the video to when they put the cover on the motor it becomes almost quiet. It starts at 3:24 for the sound issue.
They can make a much thinner verison and it would be amazing if it works as well as they claim.
Based on the video, unfortunately it appears it would not be useful in a tablet. As they stated, there is very specific sizing and shape required to take advantage of the fluid dynamic property they're utilization to get the advance in cooling. There's no indication the necessary form-factor for a tablet would work as well.
In a more general sense (let's disregard the shape to utilize the boundary layer), part of the formula here is traditional heat sinking - which by definition is entirely contingent on surface area.
On a side note, I'm curious about the comments on sound. While it's great they are essentially removing the air chuffing a traditional fan produces, they seem to be replacing it by motor sound. The contention that it would be inaudible in a case seems like a stretch based on the demo. Certainly it wouldn't be inaudible in a small form-factor.
The problem with high speed motors isn't just the dB level, it's the specific frequency of the sound. That 2,000 RPM motor makes a high frequency noise that's very annoying. It reminds me of the 60Hz hum from CRTs/Plasma ... only at a lower frequency that's even more annoying. Granted it's possible better motors could be used that at least drop the dB.
1) Remember the surface will have a sub 17w cpu , so you could get away with a smaller one and in the video they talk about scaling it.
If you look at the surface it has that air vent all around the tablet , it would be ideal for this as you can allways have to sides sucking while two sides vent .
2) A noise motor isn't a big deal , look at fans , you get something loud and noise or you get a nice panflo that is wisper quiet. This is a prototype so they wouldn't be worrying about the motor so much. It also removes the fan noise itself which is a plus.
couple it with this
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/11/noctuas-noise-canceling-pc-fan-gets-tested-drops-twenty-decib/
and it could be silent.
If you look at the surface it has that air vent all around the tablet , it would be ideal for this as you can allways have to sides sucking while two sides vent .
2) A noise motor isn't a big deal , look at fans , you get something loud and noise or you get a nice panflo that is wisper quiet. This is a prototype so they wouldn't be worrying about the motor so much. It also removes the fan noise itself which is a plus.
couple it with this
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/11/noctuas-noise-canceling-pc-fan-gets-tested-drops-twenty-decib/
and it could be silent.
lol quite informative.
Anyway with no new informatino for most likely a few months this thread is going to die. Still went alot further than i thought an ms product annoucnement thread to go.
That's pretty ironic. You dismissed my comments without rebutting my technical concerns. And the dismissal is contingent on them 'scaling' the tech, yet the only examples they gave would not be suitable for a tablet. By design, this appears to require significant vertical space for the cooling.
There isn't really anything more I can say if you disagree with me.
What would you like me to say.
From the article
if you go to 4 minutes in they talk about the modeling for optimum design and changing the number / length and design for the device and also scaling up the tech. They should be able to scale it down also . They also talk about signing a cpu cooling contract already.
Just because they show one size doesn't make other sizes impossible. This design is most likely a good size for them to study whats happening to the device vs making one smaller
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...tsink-your-questions-answered-by-the-inventor
in this interview they talk about LED lighting , your going to need to make these in smaller sizes to replace typical home light bulbs.
From the inteview
So if they are going to fit it in a standard light bulb size whats going to stop them from designing it for a tablet ? The lightbulb sized one will most likely be smaller or similar size.
and it can work in any orientation
So a tablet that is constantly changing its postion shouldn't be a problem.
As for the motor noise . You can look at other 2,000 rpm motors in fans , alot of them are very quiet. Remember what was in the video was for a 150w cpu . A 17 watt cpu is going to need alot less cooling
From the article
if you go to 4 minutes in they talk about the modeling for optimum design and changing the number / length and design for the device and also scaling up the tech. They should be able to scale it down also . They also talk about signing a cpu cooling contract already.
Just because they show one size doesn't make other sizes impossible. This design is most likely a good size for them to study whats happening to the device vs making one smaller
http://www.extremetech.com/computin...tsink-your-questions-answered-by-the-inventor
in this interview they talk about LED lighting , your going to need to make these in smaller sizes to replace typical home light bulbs.
From the inteview
So if they are going to fit it in a standard light bulb size whats going to stop them from designing it for a tablet ? The lightbulb sized one will most likely be smaller or similar size.
and it can work in any orientation
So a tablet that is constantly changing its postion shouldn't be a problem.
As for the motor noise . You can look at other 2,000 rpm motors in fans , alot of them are very quiet. Remember what was in the video was for a 150w cpu . A 17 watt cpu is going to need alot less cooling
Even when scaled down for lighting, we're still talking about a vertically oriented device. The base has plenty of room to house something as tall as this design requires. Also consider the differences in heat we're talking about. And LED does not produce the kind of temperatures a SoC does.
Both in order to create the necessary air circulation for the impeller, and in order for there to be sufficient surface area for the heat sink to work ... there's nothing to indicate they could make this thin enough to work in a tablet.
You mention they have a contract for CPU's ... is there any indication this is for ARM devices? They're talking about replacing the traditional heat sink / fan combo on a desktop CPU.
Until they give any indication this could be usable at an extremely thin height - which they haven't - I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Note: I hope I'm wrong here.
Wiktor
Member
Good for me. I would rather have them concentrate on real x86 Windows 8 instead of wasting time with crippled WinRT
Even when scaled down for lighting, we're still talking about a vertically oriented device. The base has plenty of room to house something as tall as this design requires. Also consider the differences in heat we're talking about. And LED does not produce the kind of temperatures a SoC does.
Both in order to create the necessary air circulation for the impeller, and in order for there to be sufficient surface area for the heat sink to work ... there's nothing to indicate they could make this thin enough to work in a tablet.
You mention they have a contract for CPU's ... is there any indication this is for ARM devices? They're talking about replacing the traditional heat sink / fan combo on a desktop CPU.
Until they give any indication this could be usable at an extremely thin height - which they haven't - I wouldn't get my hopes up.
Note: I hope I'm wrong here.
I'm talking surface pro , i could give a crap about the arm verison.
Regardless , there is nothing to say this needs to be tall . This can also be wider . And like i said the heat a 17w chip will produce is alot less than the 150w they are targeting .
They aren't just stalking about traditional heat sink / fan combos on desktops , they want this in anything .
A compact bulb would reduce the horizontal size of the device while leaving the vertical intact. A tablet would incease the horizontal size of the device while reducing the vertical.
I meant as an example since that's the conventional platform to use a tablet form-factor.
I wish some of engineer/physics gaf would come in here.
I find it unlikely this is viable.
We know the surface pro will have a heatsink and a fan. If they fit a heatsink and a fan inside it then they should be able to fit a scaled down version of this.
Can we agree this is sound reasoning ?
My quotes were from an interview with the lead designer. They want to fit it in a lightbulb so its obvious they would scale down. I don't see why this design wouldn't work scaled down. They would just have to design the optimum fin design.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Does MS have a patent on the keyboard?
I'd assume it depends on how well that program they are working on is. The surface pro is 9 months out.
Microsoft is so fucked. lol
Scalemail Ted
Member
Just out of curiousuty, What ultra book best represents the capabilities of the surface pro?
um where have you been ?
They announced the surface rt would release with windows 8 and the pro would release about 90 days later. People accept a late october date for windows 8 so 90 days would bring you into January . I guess its less than 9 months at this point , 7 months out .
No ... we cannot
My understanding of physics tells me this is emphatically not the case
that design seems to demand that airflow is pulled in perpendicular to its orientation, and it's pumping out a complete 360 band of hot air that needs to be routed out somehow. since the surface is all screen on one side and flat and ventless on the other, where are they pulling the fresh (cooler) air from? with stagnant airflow this type of HSF would just recycle its own exhaust.
Phonomezer
Banned
No pro until next year? Fucks sake.
I had totally forgotten the actual debut date for windows 8 between showcase #576 and showcase #577.
I'm on the edge of my seat for the next Surface teaser presentation.
Damon Bennet
Member
I actually am.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Do we have any idea when we're going to get more info on all of this mainly actual pricing info?!?!?!
Anyways it sucks MS has pissed off OEMs, but I'm already over it. OEMs have taken a shit on MS for almost two decades now with regards to good industrial design in their products (with a few rare exceptions). Not like they didn't have time to step their game up.
Anyways it sucks MS has pissed off OEMs, but I'm already over it. OEMs have taken a shit on MS for almost two decades now with regards to good industrial design in their products (with a few rare exceptions). Not like they didn't have time to step their game up.
the air vents that go all around the screen of the surface ?
okay, but what's pulling/pushing air into and out of the chassis? the HSF you linked to doesn't do that.
Rewatch the video where they show the computer model of how the airflow moves throughout the solution. It necessitates vertical space that simply isn't available in a tablet. Not to mention heat sinks by their nature require surface area transfer heat.
the heatsink would create air movement.
you would just need a small space above the heatsink to bring in more air.
Here is a list of device types they want to implement it in
Here are some more pdf's of prototype 1.0 , they already have 3.0 so they are a little older
https://ip.sandia.gov/techpdfs/Sandia Cooler presentation.pdf
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