EVO 2012 Thread 2 Because one thread wasnt enough to hold all the hype and the salt

Ragingnight said:
Because it was just recently people realize how broken he was. CDjr's new main is kabal but its to new to bust out at a tournament like EVO. He made a thread saying he'll main kabal from here on out. Same with Curbolicious.

REO got knocked out for whatever reason. EVO is one tournament (though the largest), while REO and CDjr have just about taken almost every MK9 major in the scene.
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Proves absolutely nothing. I don't deny that Kabal is a really stupid character, but you're gonna need an argument a lot better than that if you want to say he's worse than 3S Chun, whose stupidness has been established over the years in many ways.
 
Lost Fragment said:
Proves absolutely nothing. I don't deny that Kabal is a really stupid character, but you're gonna need an argument a lot better than that if you want to say he's worse than 3S Chun, whose stupidness has been established over the years in many ways.
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What about that matchup chart that was created by the community?

edit
And the whole argument was that MK9 had bs. Chun was BS in 3s and trying to make that comparison shows that Kabal is BS.
 
Doomshine said:
Doesn't MK have inconsistent frame data too? Something related to how long you hold the block button?
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Yes

and derp forgot to mention kabal is really hard to use execution wise.

Kabal is difficult to use, but there's clearly more to that as to why he is not used as much as he theoretically should. People flock to top tier, no matter how hard the character is to use. If a character is that good, they will be used very often. That's not the case with Kabal. He's considered the best, but you see more of characters BELOW him being used. This means something. What exactly?

That his rewards don't make him centralizing enough for the effort that is required to win shit with him. He's one hell of a character, clearly, but compared to Cage or Sonya, the investment he requires makes people second guess picking him up for tournament play.

Kabal is literally a character who is only visibly the best after enough time investment. KT Smith has started using Kabal, and is still having troubles. Much more to Kabal than just iaGBing your way to victory.
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-thtb
 
Ragingnight said:
What about that matchup chart that was created by the community?

edit
And the whole argument was that MK9 had bs. Chun was BS in 3s and trying to make that comparison shows that Kabal is BS.
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What about Duo Lon, who the KoF community considered low tier, but was used to win Evo?

Anyway, point is, lots of games that are still good competitive games have really stupid s-tier characters. Kabal being s-tier doesn't really seperate the game from other games. If anything, having 1 or 2 really stupid characters is the rule and not the exception, though obviously this isn't ideal.
 
jett said:
I remember people saying SF4 would be dead after SFxT hit. lololol.

And let's not forget Mike "best fighter I ever played" Ross.
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Nicolas%20Cage%20Laugh.gif
 
Ragingnight said:
I wasn't just Mike Ross. It was Ricky Ortiz, Flash Metroid, Arturo and etc. It was because they played the game before they knew frame data, or about the dlc gems. Also Mike Ross played a build of the game before gems, pandora, and all that garbage was introduced.
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Plz, this is bullshit. I watched Cross Counter and The Excellent Adventures of Gootecks and Mike Ross, the game had gems and pandora when they were playing it.
 
Infinite said:
Cool. Complaining about "easy links" is silly to me still.
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I think it's a valid complaint in this kind of fighter, especially when most everything is relatively safe. There's little reason to not just press buttons if when you're plus advantage.


theowne said:
A lot of top players were praising the game. Even Ultrachen said they began to like it after its appearance at WNF.
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I remember David pretty much shitting on gems while Seth was on the stream with him. The game has some good attributes to it, one being that its the game you're least likely to get randomed out unless you're playing some air tatsu spamming shoto that is.
 
Lost Fragment said:
What about Duo Lon, who the KoF community considered low tier, but was used to win Evo?

Anyway, point is, lots of games that are still good competitive games have really stupid s-tier characters. Kabal being s-tier doesn't really seperate the game from other games. If anything, having 1 or 2 really stupid characters is the rule and not the exception, though obviously this isn't ideal.
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Don't forget Tira winning SC5! Though imo KOF and SC have much tighter tiers than MK9.
 
Please, let's not make this thread about Kabal. There are a selection of characters that go even against Kabal and a handful more that are merely disadvantaged 6-4... perfectly winnable. REO lost to PerfectLegend and af0xygrandpa in Kung Lao mirrors; he chose not to play Kabal in the two matches he lost. I imagine he certainly had no code of honor against using Kabal; I suspect it was an ego thing to prove he had the best Kung Lao and it cost him. CDjr played Kabal in a few matches and did not win EVO. Soonk, DetroitBallin, Michaelangelo, Erik Warda, REO, all these Kabal players who did not place Top 8 or even attend EVO and compete in MK9... the point of claiming a character is overpowered or broken is to dominate tournament after tournament with little effort and make the game look abysmal - this is the only way to prove it. So many people at TYM claim Kabal is a problem yet only REO and recently DetroitBallin have had success with the character, and both these players had incredible success in MK9 prior to ever playing Kabal. This conversation has been going on far too long and should end. Tiers are real things but player skill will always surmount tiers. We didn't see Yun win AE, we didn't see Kabal win MK, and we didn't see Zero win Marvel. It baffles me how unwilling people are to talk hard data (ie frame data) to logically sort through matches yet are so willing to concede victory to characters in a 6-4 or 7-3 match.

Doomshine said:
Doesn't MK have inconsistent frame data too? Something related to how long you hold the block button?
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In an original version of the game, attacks would force you into a certain amount of blockstun just like every other game. However, if you continued holding block after the move connected and was recovering, your blockstun would be unfairly elongated. This was either lessened or players simply learned how to release the block button at the earliest possible moment after successfully blocking to recover at the correct frame.
 
Just watched the AE finals (haven't gotten a chance to see Mahvel's). Not sure what the problem was, but it did seem a bit subdued from previous years. Daigo, Die, Poongko seemed a bit subdued and not themselves.

Caught the MK and KOF finals. KOF seemed like the most hyped finals (wo seeing Mahvel) from what I saw, especially with the horse head, flag waving character and Mexico chants.

Korea came and conquered Evo this year. Hopefully, besides Infiltration and Laugh, more of their players attend our other tournaments.

Hopefully, the U.S. steps up in other games, but it seems like our focus on MVC3 (though there's a MK culture, it's not exactly thriving like KOF, etc).
 
Archon473 said:
In an original version of the game, attacks would force you into a certain amount of blockstun just like every other game. However, if you continued holding block after the move connected and was recovering, your blockstun would be unfairly elongated. This was either lessened or players simply learned how to release the block button at the earliest possible moment after successfully blocking to recover at the correct frame.
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Is that a bad thing?
 
Skilotonn said:
I just finished watching the UMVC3 and SSF4:AE Grand Finals.

I am salty as fuck.

Fucking Champ still managed to win after Ifrit handily beat him the first time, but then let him come back in Grand Finals, gave him a round, and then messed up for him to take it all. It really should have been Ifrit's win, so disappointed.

Fuck.

And then for SSF4:AE, Infiltration comes and turns AE into 3rd Strike with the damn parry FADC's - I shouldn't be mad as he was totally on-point the entire Grand Finals, I'm just mad that it happened to Daigo, who would have taken the title without that for sure despite the loss vs. Cammy.

Damn it.

Everyone that I was pulling for at EVO lost, even Bala - but KOF remains the most hype tournament of all of EVO for me, second was whenever Ifrit took a win.

Congrats to Fuudo as well for taking VF5, I had no clue that he was so strong in VF5 in addition to AE.

Incredible, incredible talent this year with ton of upsets this year, the big names aren't champs anymore now, it's truly turning into anyone's win as time passes, it's crazy.
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Infiltration was on Gods Garden's Nico Nico stream after he won evo. He said he studied Daigo's videos and that's why he was able to beat him. That's the thing with Daigo. He's the most famous player and there are countless videos of him and his Ryu. Infiltration must feel really good since he finally beat Daigo. He's always lost to him.

The top 8 of AE wasn't hype imo because of everyone being burned out. It seemed like everyone was drained by the time Marvel finished and the award ceremony and combo video didn't help either. I know I felt really tired and yet I was at the comfort of my own home. None of the players looked like they had much energy. The standard of play was well below friday night.

Edit: Infiltration also said he won't be going to SBO. He said he will be at Capcom tournaments though. Gamerbee isn't sure he's going to SBO either since he doesn't have teammates.
 
KidA Seven said:
Infiltration was on Gods Garden's Nico Nico stream after he won evo. He said he studied Daigo's videos and that's why he was able to beat him. That's the thing with Daigo. He's the most famous player and there are countless videos of him and his Ryu. Infiltration must feel really good since he finally beat Daigo. He's always lost to him.
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That's cool of Infiltration to be honest and admit that. I was blown away by his play in top 8.
 
Infinite said:
Then the complaint lies with those things.
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Not sure what this is supposed to mean, but these things all work in conjunction with eachother. Having easy links for example isn't a problem in and of itself, but if you can convert damage off some derpy shit and exert little effort in timing anything properly I think that undermines the execution portion of fighting games. It may put more emphasis on everything else, but it's a complaint nonetheless and one that leads to other problems. Rolentos stupid jab pressure which is one of the things getting patched this month.
 
wingz said:
Mike Ross and Flash Metroid were saying the game was amazing during the Cross Assault week (basically when the game was done). The only info that was not present was the dlc characters fiasco.
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Yeah and Ricky Ortiz as well. But to be fair it was the first time some of them have even played the game (Flash, and Ricky). How would they know about jabs being +3 on block? or the other issues. Its not like you can fully understand a game in one day.
 
Parallax Scroll said:
Is that a bad thing?
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Well, let's say you blocked an attack and it left you in 9 frames of block stun. So, you are holding block on the frame the attack connects and are in blockstun for 8 more frames. If you release block after 2 total frames, you recover after 9 total frames; however, if you release on the 9th and final frame, you would be penalized with 3 additional frames of block stun. NRS thought it would contribute to something like "just guarding," but it was closer to the affect of block and then "just releasing" block. All the players complained and I believe it was removed in one of the earliest patches, though I'm unsure. I can block moves and just-frame punish or just-frame interrupt with only 1 frame of freedom, so it functions fine in the current version 1.05.

giancarlo123x said:
Where can I find the MK finals? The couple of links above start at the VF5 finals.
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Top 8, first match starts 27 minutes in.
 
Here's hoping P4A grows in hype after its release. I can't help feel that it will die down after a couple of weeks. Hopefully, it gets a spot on a weekly stream, but I also feel like stream monsters can really tear games they don't like in chat (which often dictates what will be shown the next week)
 
Reading through some of this thread and man some of these posts are just dumb. I like seeing all the salt in here about FChamp and Infiltration. It was pretty clear those two were the best players by pretty much everyone at EVO. Every time one of the two would play, people would go nuts looking for side bets and nobody would take the bait, even for odds. Infiltration showed off the most dominant play in a Street Fighter tournament I've ever seen. FChamp was the clear favorite, but Chris G and Infrit were massively leveled up to everyone's surprise. It was closer than anybody thought. Basically, everyone thought Marvel Finals would go the way SF finals did and vice versa.

In terms of hype from the crowd, it was Marvel > KOF > SF > whatever, but SF had the most side bets going. Also, Vulva is really good at handicapping SF players.


Also, Persona Arena is amazing and is taken pretty seriously, it was open the longest and had the most players. PS All-Stars is basically garbage and literally had no line the entire weekend despite being the only booth giving away prizes(I got a few gym bags and half a year of PS+ by trolling with Big Daddy and Fat Princess). After Persona, Dive Kick was the most popular and everything else had varying levels of consistent play.
 
Ragingnight said:
Yeah and Ricky Ortiz as well. But to be fair it was the first time some of them have even played the game (Flash, and Ricky). How would they know about jabs being +3 on block? or the other issues. Its not like you can fully understand a game in one day.
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Ricky Ortiz liked the game for a while after the game came out, if his Twitter posts were anything to go by.

Knowing things about players by their Twitter posts makes me feel disappointed in myself.
 
Damn it for getting verified the day after EVO. Was still watching this thread and getting hyped with everyone here. I will concur with people who said SFIV had very little excitement. It's like Marvel was Hogan/Rock at WM and SF was...well, whatever match happened after that.
 
I think the only person that could have gave Infiltration some trouble last night was Xiao Hai. Cammy tends to give shotos a lot of problems.
 
Has to be my favorite Evo yet.

FChamp taking out Marvel and giving that big middle finger to the haters. (He is a cool cat just meet him in person and you'll see the truth son)

Super Turbo being fucking hype as shit.

Japan getting exposed hard. Daigo fan excuses make it even better. The dude was sleepy..he got drugged it was a fake daigo..what have you. Some of these eventhub comments are just insane or amazingly good trolls.

Waking up late so I did not have to watch a second of that lump of shit SFxT. Shout out's to Inf and Laugh for taking Capcoms money and car though.

Seeing KOF get hype like a motherfucker. Keep it raw like it was and it should be back 100%.
 
God's Beard said:
Reading through some of this thread and man some of these posts are just dumb. I like seeing all the salt in here about FChamp and Infiltration. It was pretty clear those two were the best players by pretty much everyone at EVO. Every time one of the two would play, people would go nuts looking for side bets and nobody would take the bait, even for odds. Infiltration showed off the most dominant play in a Street Fighter tournament I've ever seen. FChamp was the clear favorite, but Chris G and Infrit were massively leveled up to everyone's surprise. It was closer than anybody thought. Basically, everyone thought Marvel Finals would go the way SF finals did and vice versa.

Also, Persona Arena is amazing and is taken pretty seriously, it was open the longest and had the most players. PS All-Stars is basically garbage and literally had no line the entire weekend despite being the only booth giving away prizes(I got a few gym bags and half a year of PS+ by trolling with Big Daddy and Fat Princess). After Persona, Dive Kick was the most popular and everything else had varying levels of consistent play.
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Yeah I think the biggest surprise was infrit going so far in GF. Anybody thinking that Fchamp didn't have a good shot at winning the whole thing even before the tournament began was delusional.

Wow, didn't know P4A was that well receptive at EVO. I know Iplaywinner and FinestKO are pushing that game hard up in norcal but didn't expect it to have the most amount of players at EVO.
 
God's Beard said:
Reading through some of this thread and man some of these posts are just dumb. I like seeing all the salt in here about FChamp and Infiltration. It was pretty clear those two were the best players by pretty much everyone at EVO.
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My issue was not that Filipino Champ won but that Infrit lost. I would never argue against Filipino Champ being a dominant player even before he won EVO. What upset me was Infrit's decision-making in grand finals. The issue was never how much life FC's characters had; it was which characters were alive. FC would escape incoming resets from Nova and Spencer, and this should have tipped off Infrit that he should not be going for resets. Infrit would have two bars and touch Dormammu or Magneto and try to reset them instead of killing them. It would be his downfall. FC played very well. What upset me was Infrit's decision-making. This is always what upsets me when I see players lose not because of executional errors or being overwhelmed. It's when they understand the game, are comfortable playing the game but for whatever reason decide to do one thing that to me as a spectator is not optimal and it backfires. All of this is easy to see spectating, even in real-time, and we heard commentators all day saying how the biggest stage affects all but the most experienced players.
 
supahkiwi said:
Here's hoping P4A grows in hype after its release. I can't help feel that it will die down after a couple of weeks. Hopefully, it gets a spot on a weekly stream, but I also feel like stream monsters can really tear games they don't like in chat (which often dictates what will be shown the next week)
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They are planning on giving it a shot at The Break but viewership is very low on that stream.
 
Archon473 said:
Well, let's say you blocked an attack and it left you in 9 frames of block stun. So, you are holding block on the frame the attack connects and are in blockstun for 8 more frames. If you release block after 2 total frames, you recover after 9 total frames; however, if you release on the 9th and final frame, you would be penalized with 3 additional frames of block stun. NRS thought it would contribute to something like "just guarding," but it was closer to the affect of block and then "just releasing" block. All the players complained and I believe it was removed in one of the earliest patches, though I'm unsure. I can block moves and just-frame punish or just-frame interrupt with only 1 frame of freedom, so it functions fine in the current version 1.05.



Top 8, first match starts 27 minutes in.
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Thank you.
 
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