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[Crash Station]

I need a list of games that I need to avoid in order to be considered "normal" in here.

Can someone care to make a list?

Spoiler

bloody ridiculous

If it's from Japan and isn't Demon's Souls, avoid!

 

[Envelope]

Good taste.


Ban this sick filth.


What did they do in order to get discriminated against? No fair!


Why, though?

"She's a good character, but she's also a little girl and it makes me uncomfortable so you can't use her as an avatar."?

moe~

Kaiji is about as moe as it gets.

 

[Razek]

I need a list of games that I need to avoid in order to be considered "normal" in here.

Can someone care to make a list?

Spoiler

bloody ridiculous

If you play games at all you're a manchild who avoids the real world and any contact with others except for xbox live.

 

[Tomat]

I was talking about Zel and I in that case, but also the vast majority of anime fans. Only a very small number actually view these things in a sexual manner, and even of those, only a tiny handful would ever act out upon such desires outside of fantasy. Im not saying such fans dont exist, because these companies are obviously marketing specifically to those people, its just that the vast majority of them have the common sense to lay low and not talk about it anyway.

But getting back to the subject, I can definitely see peoples point about the material in these games being questionable because of that market they are specifically aimed at, and I honestly do feel that anime/manga, and games should have the young character fanservice dialed back significantly. It really gets out of hand when companies are now producing sexual toys depicting these exact characters. Thats where I think it goes way too far into dangerous territory. Oversexualizing characters in general is something I honestly dont have an appreciation for much. Cute outfits are fine and make for interesting figurine designs, but sexy outfits on young girls - not my thing personally. But the main problem otaku face is that their hobby has been so stigmatized by what the media portrays it as that it has almost fallen into irreedemability. You cannot reason away everything thats going on in this fandom, because truth be told, the marketing DOES exploit young girls. It just doesnt mean that everybody SEES IT THAT WAY. It all really just depends on how you look at it and personally react to these aspects of the culture.

In a really long winded way I'm just saying don't worry about it so much, because you know who you are as a person and let that be the thing that defines you, not the things you like.

I'm still not sure I can agree with the "small group of people" bit. Why would companies cater to it if the market for it was small? With all due respect I think that small group isn't as small as you think. Just to be clear though, I'm not saying this is a group of people who would act in real life on their fantasies. In my head I think the opposite actually. What I should have said clearly earlier is I think that there are far more people who look at the younger characters in anime/manga/anime video games in a sexual manner due to the panty shots and other ways some devs cater.

 

[Codeblue]

If you play games at all you're a manchild who avoids the real world and any contact with others except for xbox live.

And if you're on Xbox Live you're a 12 year old bigot.

 

[survivor]

I need a list of games that I need to avoid in order to be considered "normal" in here.

Can someone care to make a list?

Spoiler

bloody ridiculous

If you want to be considered normal then don't play any games

 

[Taruranto]

She's a good character, I agree. Choosing to use her as your avatar.. that's.. well.. slightly disturbing.

Still not following you here.
If he had Tyrion in avatar, would it be less disturbing? Why is that? For what you know, maybe the guy with Tyrion in avatar is totally in love with him and the guy with Arya just think she's awesome and badass and wishes to express his respect for her character, and has a folder dedicated to Cersei MILF porn.

I mean, i would use an Arya avatar. But guess what? I don't have the slightly interest in girls, or little girls for what matter. I just think she's freaking awesome!

 

[whalleywhat]

I had no idea what this game was, now I've Googled it and I'm worried I'm going to go to prison. Thanks a lot, OP, for damning me to a life behind bars.

This thread had been a sting operation. Anyone who agreed with the OP is now a registered sex offender.

 

[CO_Andy]

For the record:

Middle school (SD), middle school, high school (SD), high school.

Sega sez: SD = elementary

 

[Schweinehund]

I make fun of my friend for liking the series all the time. Not seriously though, I've never played it.

Also made fun of him for being interested in terra.

 

[SMT]

I'd say the real source of the problem is our primal, "lizard" brains.

It's true that adult males shouldn't be enjoying looking up the dress of preteen girls, animated or not. Although civilized human beings should also not derive pleasure from brutal displays of violence, yet we do and relish in it regularly, as many of the top selling movies and video games prove. Take for instance that there were so many people who were upset that you couldn't kill the children in Skyrim that a mod was created to fill the demand.

The children were whistle blowers, they HAD to die.

 

[barrin87]

I have only played Atelier Totori but I loved the game and am most certainly not any sort of pedophile. The notion of that is just absurd. You might as well just call the entirety of Japan pedophiles since that's just in the culture.

 

[Lafiel]

Actually, there are literary critics that argument tha Lolita is actually a touching love story even if the main protagonist is painted (until a certain extent) as vile.

I've heard of "readings" that present the opposite afaik.

Spoiler

it's dolores that's vile, the protagonist is the victim

 

[sp3000]

Every game ever made that isn't the Sims or Train Simulator 2008.

Who says you can't have moe trains?

 

[Izayoi]

Basically, we don't live in a world of innocence and it shouldn't be treated as such. Chasing youth and innocence is an unhealthy and ultimately fruitless pursuit. The sexualization of underage boys and girls is related to that, I think.

Japan needs to grow up.

I'm sorry, but what? Are you conflating fantasy with reality?

 

[Zaventem]

I need a list of games that I need to avoid in order to be considered "normal" in here.

Can someone care to make a list?

Spoiler

bloody ridiculous

Bioshock because that has little girls.

 

[RurouniZel]

I was talking about Zel and I in that case, but also the vast majority of anime fans. Only a very small number actually view these things in a sexual manner, and even of those, only a tiny handful would ever act out upon such desires outside of fantasy. Im not saying such fans dont exist, because these companies are obviously marketing specifically to those people, its just that the vast majority of them have the common sense to lay low and not talk about it anyway.

But getting back to the subject, I can definitely see peoples point about the material in these games being questionable because of that market they are specifically aimed at, and I honestly do feel that anime/manga, and games should have the young character fanservice dialed back significantly. It really gets out of hand when companies are now producing sexual toys depicting these exact characters. Thats where I think it goes way too far into dangerous territory. Oversexualizing characters in general is something I honestly dont have an appreciation for much. Cute outfits are fine and make for interesting figurine designs, but sexy outfits on young girls - not my thing personally. But the main problem otaku face is that their hobby has been so stigmatized by what the media portrays it as that it has almost fallen into irreedemability. You cannot reason away everything thats going on in this fandom, because truth be told, the marketing DOES exploit young girls. It just doesnt mean that everybody SEES IT THAT WAY. It all really just depends on how you look at it and personally react to these aspects of the culture.

In a really long winded way I'm just saying don't worry about it so much, because you know who you are as a person and let that be the thing that defines you, not the things you like.

I agree, I really dislike how it's marketed at such a niche. Shows like K-On that are basically inoffensive sell bucket-loads of BDs, yet a lot of anime seem to market toward that audience. It's really sad being lumped into that group because I like cute anime.

 

[Tomat]

I wonder if I'll even be allowed back into animeGAF after this. Everyone already ignores my posts as is (mostly because they're shit posts).

 

[TEJ]

Is it wrong to find young characters cute? No.

The problem is that people are thinking that something is cute means you have some sort of perverted lust for the character.

 

[cajunator]

I'm still not sure I can agree with the "small group of people" bit. Why would companies cater to it if the market for it was small? With all due respect I think that small group isn't as small as you think. Just to be clear though, I'm not saying this is a group of people who would act in real life on their fantasies. In my head I think the opposite actually. What I should have said clearly earlier is I think that there are far more people who look at the younger characters in anime/manga/anime video games in a sexual manner due to the panty shots and other ways some devs cater.

Because they charge an exorbitant amount of money for items sold to that small group. The same way anime companies stay afloat on the sales of a very tiny number of Otaku typically in the 2-3000 range for sales of most niche anime titles. Sales of anime are not gigantic like other movies. the specific target audience for these shows is barely enough to fill a small town. The amount of those in that group who would see it in a sexual manner are even less and there may be single digits who would act out on it in real life. It is a very, very tiny market.
Now with videogames, its obviously a lot larger, but still miniscule by western standards.

 

[SMT]

Basically, we don't live in a world of innocence and it shouldn't be treated as such. Chasing youth and innocence is an unhealthy and ultimately fruitless pursuit. The sexualization of underage boys and girls is related to that, I think.

Japan needs to grow up.

I am sorry, but your opinion seems rather ethnocentric. Who are you to decide upon this, hmm?
But in any case, I am Godzilla, you are Japan.

 

[Pancakes]

Final. I apologize if you didn't make the cut.

Aww I didn't make it .

I make fun of my friend for liking the series all the time. Not seriously though, I've never played it.

Also made fun of him for being interested in terra.

Interested as in he plays the 12 year old cat girl things?

 

[Tomat]

Aww I didn't make it .

Sona isn't a child. Come back with an Annie avatar.

 

[Hitokage]

I wonder if I'll even be allowed back into animeGAF after this. Everyone already ignores my posts as is (mostly because they're shit posts).

At least you're honest with yourself.

 

[Shurayuki]

Are you familiar with the concept of infantilization?

I'm not really, it doesn't even have a wikipedia entry I guess you're referring to some kind of process where people who should be more "mature" are kept "childish" through what would be basically wrong education? (in this case overly encouraging "cute" behavior as in childlike behavior)
My excuse shall be that english isn't my mother tongue (3rd language I started to learn after latin really, stupid bavaria *shakesfist* get with the times)

Even if it isn't about that, don't women usually emphasize "childlike" properties when applying make-up for the most part anways. Like making the eyes bigger and these sort of things, it's intended to bring out the natural protective reaction in males. I'm not even implying it's intentional, but something that is handed down without any deeper thoughts. Same thing when people act cute when they try to get you to do things, "fake" big eyes, hunch a bit to be small and fragile, looking up to you.

It would almost be more concerning if you didn't find characters which are supposed to look childlike "cute" because the artists employ all the things that nature uses to get parents to care about/protect their children. Now talking about sexually attractive is a whole different thing, but aside from you just hating anime art not finding these characters cute means you are the monster

Basically, we don't live in a world of innocence and it shouldn't be treated as such. Chasing youth and innocence is an unhealthy and ultimately fruitless pursuit. The sexualization of underage boys and girls is related to that, I think.

Japan needs to grow up.

Okok I can roll with that, something I feel very strongly myself (even though about anywhere not only japan). Too many parents projecting onto their child and trying to make them a happy child by completely keeping them from anything negative in this world. Also look at the concept of 'extended adolescence', 'parasite singles'/fleeter in japan etc.

 

[whalleywhat]

A guy kissed his PSP next to me on the bus once. I assumed it had something to do with all this.

 

[omlet]

Zel, I think you're fighting a pointless battle, but as someone who really enjoys these games, too, for the same reasons you do (yes, even in spite of that clunky battle system in Rorona!), I salute your efforts. (Also, for what it's worth, count me among the crowd who was annoyed at Rorona's treatment in Meruru.)

I don't have the time to read the OP right now(will later tonight), but I just wanted to chime in and say I started playing the Atelier series earlier this year and now it's one of my favorites.

Right there with you on this (except I did read OP).

Ultimately, it comes down to a clash of cultures. Broadly speaking (and I realise I'm grossly oversimplifying things here) in Japan cute things sell, while in America manly things sell. That's not to say that manly things won't sell in Japan (see: Fist of the North Star, Dragon Ball Z etc) and cute things won't sell in America (see: Hello Kitty, My Little Pony etc), of course, but the generally speaking cute things don't sell as well as manly things in America and vice-versa for Japan.

For some related commentary, read the essay quoted here. Wait, is it too late to be serious in this thread?

Also, preach it, cajunator.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I've heard of "readings" that present the opposite afaik.

Spoiler

it's dolores that's vile, the protagonist is the victim

That is the fun thing about art, it ca be interpreted in many ways

 

[Riposte]

How about now?

Y-you're merely postponing the inevitable

F-found you!



baka

 

[NervousXtian]

Still not following you here.
If he had Tyrion in avatar, would it be less disturbing? Why is that? For what you know, maybe the guy with Tyrion in avatar is totally in love with him and the guy with Arya just think she's awesome and badass and wishes to express his respect to her character, and has a folder dedicated to Cersei MILF porn.

I mean, i would use an Arya avatar. But guess what? I don't have the slightly interest in girls, or little girls for what matter. I just think she's freaking awesome!

It's cool to think she's awesome, whatever.. no problem.

Yet, people have one avatar to represent them on a forum, and choosing to use an underage girl as your avatar.. it's strange.

I'm not gonna walk around with an Arya t-shirt.. and if I saw a grown ass man wearing an Arya.. yeah I'm thinking I'm keeping my daughter as far away from that dude as possible.

Choosing an underage girl as an avatar is a very conscious decision, it says something about someone.

Having an Arya avatar says to me.. I like GoT and I like Arya enough to use her as an avatar... and... that's creepy.


Also, everyone.. there is a huge difference between "cute" and "sexual-ized child".. some of these games go a little too far down route #2.

 

[InfiniteNine]

This thread is ridiculous. O:

The Arland series of Arelier rules!

 

[Haliela]

The series isn't that good. I don't care how many times people try to spin it as being unique and interesting. The characters are adorable and deserve to be in a game that's actually FUN to play.

The RPG aspects are completely second rate. Combat in Atelier is stale and dull. There is practically no story. The entire game is on some sort of wacky timer that adds nothing but annoyance and reasons to make you trudge through it again for "different endings".

It's bland uninspired fluff. Fans trying to pass it off as more than that need to stop. We all know better. You bought it because it's cute, anime style, and popular among that niche crowd of gamers that buy niche games as to aspire to further themselves in that very specific Japan nerd subculture.

 

[Coxy]

Basically, we don't live in a world of innocence and it shouldn't be treated as such. Chasing youth and innocence is an unhealthy and ultimately fruitless pursuit. The sexualization of underage boys and girls is related to that, I think.

Japan needs to grow up.

"To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

 

[Comet]

Yeah.... no, it just seems creepy...

 

[SpaceDrake]

Yeah, it's why I'm most interested in Ayesha honestly. Trying the alchemy focused gameplay rather than Iris's failed transition to a more traditional JRPG format, and with an older teenager lead rather than a young teenager! Did those titles actually push past that and go to the 20s actually?

In the Salburg games? Yeah, by the end of the games all the protagonists are in their twenties (they don't get an art update though, but then the art was designed to "work" over a pretty broad age definition). Hell by the time you meet her in Elie, Marie can be going on thirty (and yet doesn't look all that much older :V).

But would there really be much discussion to be had about that? Did you see Atelier Ayesha? The one with the modestly dressed older protagonist which reviewed on par with or better than Meruru? Did you see how it sold 40% less?

Eh, it sold on par with the previous Arland game. Hard to say yet if it's just New Setting And Systems Jitters or if it's otaku fleeing in droves now that the franchise is re-acquiring some good taste. (I too fear it might be the latter, but.)

 

[Orayn]

It's cool to think she's awesome, whatever.. no problem.

Yet, people have one avatar to represent them on a forum, and choosing to use an underage girl as your avatar.. it's strange.

I'm not gonna walk around with an Arya t-shirt.. and if I saw a grown ass man wearing an Arya.. yeah I'm thinking I'm keeping my daughter as far away from that dude as possible.

Choosing an underage girl as an avatar is a very conscious decision, it says something about someone.

Having an Arya avatar says to me.. I like GoT and I like Arya enough to use her as an avatar... and... that's creepy.

You are reading way too much into things if you think "enough to use her as an avatar" is some sort of magical qualifier that should induce creepy feelings. I really like the movie Up - Would it be creepy for me to have an avatar of Russel instead of Carl, Dug, or Kevin?

 

[survivor]

It's cool to think she's awesome, whatever.. no problem.

Yet, people have one avatar to represent them on a forum, and choosing to use an underage girl as your avatar.. it's strange.

I'm not gonna walk around with an Arya t-shirt.. and if I saw a grown ass man wearing an Arya.. yeah I'm thinking I'm keeping my daughter as far away from that dude as possible.

Choosing an underage girl as an avatar is a very conscious decision, it says something about someone.

Having an Arya avatar says to me.. I like GoT and I like Arya enough to use her as an avatar... and... that's creepy.


Also, everyone.. there is a huge difference between "cute" and "sexual-ized child".. some of these games go a little too far down route #2.

You are putting far more thought into this than most people do when they pick an avatar

 

[Crash Station]

It's cool to think she's awesome, whatever.. no problem.

Yet, people have one avatar to represent them on a forum, and choosing to use an underage girl as your avatar.. it's strange.

I'm not gonna walk around with an Arya t-shirt.. and if I saw a grown ass man wearing an Arya.. yeah I'm thinking I'm keeping my daughter as far away from that dude as possible.

Choosing an underage girl as an avatar is a very conscious decision, it says something about someone.

Having an Arya avatar says to me.. I like GoT and I like Arya enough to use her as an avatar... and... that's creepy.

I saw this totally musclely bro guy at the gym the other day wearing a Lucky Star shirt. I didn't go up to him and ask him if he was a pedophile.

 

[D3RANG3D]

Am I too late to make the cut?

 

[Shurayuki]

A guy kissed his PSP next to me on the bus once. I assumed it had something to do with all this.

Love Plus ported to PSP?

Spoiler

I also still don't get the 'you're supposed to kiss the screen' notion that everybody always alleges, seems actually totally discouraged in LP to me?

With an Iphone it would make sense (it's on there right?).

 

[NervousXtian]

You are reading way too much into things if you think "enough to use her as an avatar" is some sort of magical qualifier that should induce creepy feelings. I really like the movie Up - Would it be creepy for me to have an avatar of Russel instead of Carl, Dug, or Kevin?

No, because Russel isn't wearing a mini-skirt and shoving out his ass.

 

[cajunator]

The series isn't that good. I don't care how many times people try to spin it as being unique and interesting. The characters are adorable and deserve to be in a game that's actually FUN to play.

The RPG aspects are completely second rate. Combat in Atelier is stale and dull. There is practically no story. The entire game is on some sort of wacky timer that adds nothing but annoyance and reasons to make you trudge through it again for "different endings".

It's bland uninspired fluff. Fans trying to pass it off as more than that need to stop. We all know better. You bought it because it's cute, anime style, and popular among that niche crowd of gamers that buy niche games as to aspire to further themselves in that very specific Japan nerd subculture.

Your avatar actually depicts my favorite anime series of all time.
Good choice.

Funnily enough, I just got into RPG gaming to try it out and the first game I chose was Xenoblade, which so far doesn't have a whole lot in the way of cuteness. It does however, have fun gameplay, amazing music and breathtakingly gorgeous art design and vistas. Im highly impressed with it thus far.

 

[omlet]

Yeah, it's why I'm most interested in Ayesha honestly. Trying the alchemy focused gameplay rather than Iris's failed transition to a more traditional JRPG format, and with an older teenager lead rather than a young teenager! Did those titles actually push past that and go to the 20s actually?

By "those" do you mean the Atelier games? If so, yes. Something like 13 years pass between Rorona and Meruru, so reoccurring characters do age past 20 (some 40+).

 

[Tomat]

All bullshit aside, I agree with the notion being a pedo and liking cute anime characters are not the same thing. They're not even close. In fact, I almost find it a little disturbing that somebody would make this big if a leap between the two.

At the same time, people are going to judge you regardless. It comes with the territory. Doesn't make it right, but people are people. We're all prone to ignorance in one way or another. Explaining it may help in some cases and it may not. You shouldn't sweat it. Cajunator has the right attitude. He likes the stuff, he's honest (hiding the fact that you like cute anime character is fine too) and willing to explain it, but he doesn't let people not "getting it" get to him either. Unless someone starts to consistently bully you about your hobbies (in which case, they're just an asshole that should be ignored anyway), you shouldn't worry about it.

At least you're honest with yourself.

I think it's one of my redeeming qualities.

 

[chertipros]

This thread is ridiculous. So many generalizations on both sides. I agree that liking the atelier series does not make you a pedophile. I mean, that's just obvious. Some of this stuff can appeal to average everyday people. But a pedophile can find the series and moe in general very appealing as well. And that shouldn't be surprising

 

[NervousXtian]

I saw this totally musclely bro guy at the gym the other day wearing a Lucky Star shirt. I didn't go up to him and ask him if he was a pedophile.

Typically walking up to musclely bro guys and asking them if they are a pedophile is not going to end well for you. Good choice.

..btw doesn't make it okay that dude wore that.

 

[OceanBlue]

You are reading way too much into things if you think "enough to use her as an avatar" is some sort of magical qualifier that should induce creepy feelings. I really like the movie Up - Would it be creepy for me to have an avatar of Russel instead of Carl, Dug, or Kevin?

It'd be weird if you used Dug because it'd mean you want to represent yourself as a talking dog. Sounds like bestiality to me.

 

[Ultimadrago]

Because she has mental issues. No joke.

It's true.

 

[The Grim Heaper]

This thread is ridiculous. O:

The Arland series of Arelier rules!

get outta here

pedo debates or bust

 

[Orayn]

No, because Russel isn't wearing a mini-skirt and shoving out his ass.

But why would you assume I'm not a gay pedophile? That's awfully heretonormative of you, bro.

Also, Arya isn't sexualized either.