Windows 8 Release Preview
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Steelyuhas
Member
You scroll the same way you would as if you were on the desktop, I don't see what the big deal is.
Trackpad Windows 8 drivers are coming.
How do I reboot windows 7 style so my kernel device drivers load properly after install? I've seen the fast restart mod, but that only works on shutdown? Lame.
But otherwise the OS is good. Just keep that Xbox Live ad box stuff away please.
Also, has anyone gotten bogus UAC prompts about file privileges needing admin rights when both you're admin and you've disabled UAC? What the hell is this? A bug, a regression to Vista? I'd rather not want to resort to completely disabling all UAC at registry level, but if that's how it's going to be I will.
more Skype leaks, this time with hands on
http://www.neowin.net/news/skype-for-metro-leaks-we-go-hands-on
http://www.neowin.net/news/skype-for-metro-leaks-we-go-hands-on
Steelyuhas
Member
Beautifully Shaped Monsters
Member
I played around a bit with RTM this morning.
Disclaimer: I admit to being skeptical about Windows 8, I'm also pretty stock conservative about how I use my computer (very few keyboard shortcuts, and heavy use of the start menu). I'm also primarily a Linux user, although I do like Windows 7 a lot.
I switched from DOS to Windows 95 to Windows 98 without big issues, but when XP came out and kinda sucked, I switched to Linux for most things. Then when Windows 7 came I was impressed enough that I got a copy and have dual booted Windows and Linux since, although I still primarily use Linux for anything except gaming.
As with so many others, the biggest issue for me is Metro. I don't like it and I don't want to use it. To be fair, I generally don't like tablets/smart phones. I bought a pretty high specced Android phone (Galaxy Nexus) because I heard it was a soft entry into that world, and even after installing Cyanogenmod and escaping the sandbox, I still find the thing generally annoying, and for most things pretty useless. I especially don't like touch screens.
So having an interface trying to force the tablet/smartphone/touch paradigm on the desktop is for me completely counterintuitive. I also don't like the idea of sandboxed app environments, so I don't think Metro will ever appeal to me.
Fair enough, I'll just use the Desktop, and the Desktop is nice. I really dig the new skin. Windows XP was was just weird with those colours. Windows 7 was better, but I never really cared that much about Aero. I used it, but didn't feel particular attached to it.
For the most part using it is fine, although the lack of a start button seems pointless. I didn't install enough programs for the start menu to be cluttered, but I could easily see it happen. Making it full screen feels very strange, in Windows 7 if I needed to close the start menu I could just click anywhere on the screen outside the menu, now I have to dig down to the hot corner again and find the right spot.
I also don't get the point of the charms menu. It's like the gadget menu all over again, but this time less customizable and mandatory. The use of hot corners instead of buttons feels annoying, but I guess that's a matter of preference.
The single biggest issue I have is what others also have mentioned. The jarring switch you get when you inadvertently start a Metro app in Desktop mode. It feels incredibly clumsy. For me the most natural thing would be if Metro apps were run a windowed sandbox on the Desktop. Either that or a complete segregation of Desktop and Metro.
Generally speaking for me, the use of full screen no border is only really something I want for games.
So anyway, not quite as bad as I feared, but I do feel a lot of the criticism is valid, and MS ought to address it, rather than expect people to just adapt. Most issues could be fixed by allowing a bit more choice in how you want things presented.
I frankly don't think I will ever come around to Metro, so I wish they would stop constantly shoving it in my face. I don't buy into their Desktop+ vision for the future.
Anyway, those are my impression, I think they are pretty common criticisms. I realize it will be easy to label me someone who just doesn't like change, but I think people have to recognize that sometimes companies just get things wrong, or at least that it takes a few iterations before the clinks are ironed out and they manage to provide something that appeals to everybody.
History is littered with companies which wanted to revolutionize the way we do things, only to be left in the dust. I don't think that's Microsoft though, they showed with Windows 7 that they are perfectly happy to listen to their customer and address their concerns.
Disclaimer: I admit to being skeptical about Windows 8, I'm also pretty stock conservative about how I use my computer (very few keyboard shortcuts, and heavy use of the start menu). I'm also primarily a Linux user, although I do like Windows 7 a lot.
I switched from DOS to Windows 95 to Windows 98 without big issues, but when XP came out and kinda sucked, I switched to Linux for most things. Then when Windows 7 came I was impressed enough that I got a copy and have dual booted Windows and Linux since, although I still primarily use Linux for anything except gaming.
As with so many others, the biggest issue for me is Metro. I don't like it and I don't want to use it. To be fair, I generally don't like tablets/smart phones. I bought a pretty high specced Android phone (Galaxy Nexus) because I heard it was a soft entry into that world, and even after installing Cyanogenmod and escaping the sandbox, I still find the thing generally annoying, and for most things pretty useless. I especially don't like touch screens.
So having an interface trying to force the tablet/smartphone/touch paradigm on the desktop is for me completely counterintuitive. I also don't like the idea of sandboxed app environments, so I don't think Metro will ever appeal to me.
Fair enough, I'll just use the Desktop, and the Desktop is nice. I really dig the new skin. Windows XP was was just weird with those colours. Windows 7 was better, but I never really cared that much about Aero. I used it, but didn't feel particular attached to it.
For the most part using it is fine, although the lack of a start button seems pointless. I didn't install enough programs for the start menu to be cluttered, but I could easily see it happen. Making it full screen feels very strange, in Windows 7 if I needed to close the start menu I could just click anywhere on the screen outside the menu, now I have to dig down to the hot corner again and find the right spot.
I also don't get the point of the charms menu. It's like the gadget menu all over again, but this time less customizable and mandatory. The use of hot corners instead of buttons feels annoying, but I guess that's a matter of preference.
The single biggest issue I have is what others also have mentioned. The jarring switch you get when you inadvertently start a Metro app in Desktop mode. It feels incredibly clumsy. For me the most natural thing would be if Metro apps were run a windowed sandbox on the Desktop. Either that or a complete segregation of Desktop and Metro.
Generally speaking for me, the use of full screen no border is only really something I want for games.
So anyway, not quite as bad as I feared, but I do feel a lot of the criticism is valid, and MS ought to address it, rather than expect people to just adapt. Most issues could be fixed by allowing a bit more choice in how you want things presented.
I frankly don't think I will ever come around to Metro, so I wish they would stop constantly shoving it in my face. I don't buy into their Desktop+ vision for the future.
Anyway, those are my impression, I think they are pretty common criticisms. I realize it will be easy to label me someone who just doesn't like change, but I think people have to recognize that sometimes companies just get things wrong, or at least that it takes a few iterations before the clinks are ironed out and they manage to provide something that appeals to everybody.
History is littered with companies which wanted to revolutionize the way we do things, only to be left in the dust. I don't think that's Microsoft though, they showed with Windows 7 that they are perfectly happy to listen to their customer and address their concerns.
So theres no way to make my sd card a more 'permanent' device so it can be included in libraries?
I cant play stuff in wmp and the stupid music metro thing without 'open, find file... etc...'
>.<
I mean, it seems silly given most? tablets will have sd cards to supplment the limited storage tablets have. I put all my music on my microsd card for my mobiles >.>
I cant play stuff in wmp and the stupid music metro thing without 'open, find file... etc...'
>.<
I mean, it seems silly given most? tablets will have sd cards to supplment the limited storage tablets have. I put all my music on my microsd card for my mobiles >.>
Have you tried this?:
1. Click start, type CMD and then CTRL+ALT+Enter or right click to run the command prompt with adminstrator permissions, and you should receive a UAC popup. The resulting command prompt will be at c:\windows\system32
2. Type cd \ and hit Enter to get back to the root of the c: drive
3. Type mklink /D /J SDHC D:\ and hit Enter.
4. Now go into Windows Explorer and browse to the root of the C: drive. You should see what appears to be a folder shortcut icon next to SDHC, however if you open it you will see from the address bar that Windows still thinks you're inside the directory C:\SDHC\whatever while you're really browsing your own SD card.
5. Go to each of your libraries, click 2 locations at the top of the window, and add the appropriate folders on your memory card by browsing through C:\SDHC
Iced_Eagle
Member
I found this workaround for Windows 7 that will likely still work: http://lifehacker.com/5788839/how-to-add-unsupported-removable-drives-to-windows-7s-libraries
Also, I have to say that most peoples complaints almost consistently come from forcing themselves to use the Modern UI on a desktop. As someone who's used it for months, I think that on a desktop with no touch controls, you should mostly stay in the desktop. Don't force yourself to use the Modern IE for example, unless you really want to. The desktop is where mouse / keyboard is strongest.
I also have a laptop / tablet (Lenovo X220 tablet), and sometimes I exclusive use the Modern UI when I'm using it. Personally, I think Win8 is solid when used on the desktop, but I think it becomes truly amazing when you get a mobile touchscreen device as well (either touchscreen laptop, tablet, or hybrid like the Surface). Having all of your settings synced across them, and having a consistent set of apps across all of your devices is huge IMO.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Is Skype similarly crippled like it is on Windows Phone?
With all apps that are not in the foreground being suspended, is there any way for Skype to stay connected?
I haven't heard anything about a VoIP background 'mode' for Windows 8 like the one they have in Windows Phone 8.
I hope Windows 8 will catch up to Windows Phone as soon as possible. On WP8 calls from VoIP will be treated like regular calls. IMO that would make sense on Windows 8, too.
MutantCamel
Banned
After trying I still think that you should be able to disable Metro on a desktop computer... If I switch permanently I suspect my Metro start page will contain only the "Desktop" tile... Also, will they force Metro even on "Win 8 Server"?
Jzero
Member
That would be pretty dumb. Just stick with Windows 7 because you'll be seeing the new UI in more than just the start screen.
brotkasten
Member
Every version of Windows 8 comes with the new UI.
LukasTaves
Member
You could remove all metro apps from there and use the screen as a glorified start menu with far more organization features for your desktop apps...
LukasTaves
Member
It does a little sense if you think on aspect ratios...
Currently they ask the developer to provide a Widescreen, a 4:3 and a snaped view layouts. Freely adjusting the slide would become a pain for lots of the apps (Not so much for those who are like the start screen and just provide a panel with tiles)...
Even if they allowed a 50/50 mode what aspect ratio that mode would be would vary according to the user monitor...
I believe this will be solved in the future, they probably didn't have the time to come with a nice solution in time for this release...
How the system handles portrait mode when you use app side by side view?
What bothers me now is that Metro and Desktop don't work together at all. If MS could somehow make them better, Windows 8 would be a better system. I don't know, maybe in a Service Pack or the so called Windows Blue. I started using W7 since it launched, but I'll wait more for Windows 8.
what.
Do they still have windows core rigth? Who in their rigth mind will put a server with a metro interface?
Why not?
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Except in practice that's not true, they work together fine. As a launcher the new UI is faster in most tasks than using the old Start menu. If you mean Metro apps and desktop apps are too different in design then that's just a byproduct of a change in a design principals to better support touch devices. It's not much different than when we transitioned from DOS to Windows, the two systems were vastly different but until everything moved to Windows you still had to use both because most software was in DOS. The difference being that I don't think the desktop will become legacy for a long time, if ever.
Do you know how servers work? Surface attack and such?
It was already bad that server core still comes with the graphical inteface but it's expected as the windows world relies a lot in grphical applications for configuration and such, but shoving a touch interface in a production server is plain madness. We are talking about a tech enviroment here, not a workstation.
I don't really believe in the legacy thing too, but what I really mean is that Firefox (Chrome, IE) Metro is different from the desktop version. It would be really confusing for me to open one in Metro, then go to desktop and do everything again. I know that Metro follows a new design principle based on touch, but, at least for me, the productivity falls. If they change that, I'd be willing to use it.
Looks quite good but hopefully it will bring in your contact images from facebook like the people app.... all those blank tiles for contacts looks bad (same with the android version I use currently) but since win8 is more visual pictures need to link.
Also not a fan of the rounded icons in skype.... doesn't look very metro to me but it's a small thing.
brotkasten
Member
LukasTaves
Member
That is lovely.
Wish they had gone all the way on everything on the desktop too...
What about Hyper-V?
that IS nice, damn.
brotkasten
Member
It's a bit crazy to think that they really did that. Not that I expect the Windows Server team to do their job properly. They're still new in the business.
Firefox will sync between the desktop and Metro version.
I saw that. It's a step forward. I hope that more developers find a way to help the system get better.
w1ck3dn1nj4
Member
Your thoughts on Window 8 exactly mirrors mine. I do like the improvements under the hood for Windows 8 but I just cant stand this idea of turning my desktop turned into a giant smartphone. Its a hideous UI better optimised for a McDonalds cash register which I have no need for, nor want to be exposed to (even for a fucking second), on my conventional multi monitor setup.
I dont buy this one size fits all form factors BS. I have no problem with a convergence strategy for mobile computing devices and the desktop counterparts. Thats not the issue. What I have a problem with, is MSs cuntish way of implementing it. The underlying code is already there to ensure that it works for various form factors, so why not just limit the Metro UI to touch centric devices? Why not make it easy for users to flick a switch like a desktop mode, a tablet mode or a phone mode? Why not make it work like Windows media centre where we dont have to be exposed to it if we dont need to?
Its blatantly clear that Windows 8 isnt borne out of the necessity, or desire to improve the end user experience but rather one borne out of desperation and the need for MS to exploit their existing global user base as leverage. Windows 8 is MSs clever little package of control and their last ditch attempt at trying to shove their mobile UI in our face constantly in the hopes that it translates into mass acceptance for their dying mobile platform. Only difference this time around is, instead of their usual strong-arm tactics with OEMs, theyre bringing their game to end consumers instead. There's absolutely no way I'm "jumping in" to that!
Kabuki Quantum Lover
Member
Yes. That's award winning design, folks.
I personally like it better than the Start Menu.
Jeff from Giantbomb did a quicklook at Windows 8. He is mostly coming at it from a gaming perspective. Jeff in the comments did point out that the reason the game crashed was due to his capture equipment.
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-windows-8/17-6462/
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-windows-8/17-6462/
This is me.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
alt account, ban
Yeah minus the chrome that's pretty slick. I would not complain if the windows 9 desktop looked like that (again, without the chrome)
Count me in the crowd that feels the same way as you and Beautifully Shaped Monsters.
If you mean people will get used to using the Start screen as a glorified Start menu to start win32 apps, sure.
If you mean everybody's going to be using full-screen-only Modern UI apps on their desktop monitors to get work done, lol no.
I think people will use full screen metro apps more than you expect.... you will see both getting used. I think at launch it will be around 50/50 for most people but that will slowly skew to the metro side as it gets updated over the next 20 years and office gets the onenote mx treatment.
darkpaladinmfc
Member
Can you give me an example of a full-screen metro app that I would use that wouldn't be better on the desktop? I honestly can't think of one.
Yep. There's nothing wrong with the Metro start menu. Yeah, it's not really slower than the old start menu but it's not like it's better in any way either. There's just absolutely no reason for having it on the desktop. I don't get why/how it doesn't detect that you're on a desktop and thus have no need for full-screen, single purpose apps that are MUCH slower than their desktop counterparts. TBH, if the upgrade weren't priced at $40, I don't think I would upgrade from 7.
I usually go with : "People like simplicity and there is a lot more of those people than power users".
I can see my mom and my sister stick exclusively to apps. They really don't need much out of their PC's beyond email, Facebook and perhaps Word. I'll never use an App because of it's lack of interaction or integration into the desktop. But that's just me as a "core user". But I feel that they will be hugely popular with the less tech-savy crowd. Big buttons, unified interface, in your face menus, pretty colors. That stuff will work. I mean, it's nothing magical. iOS/Android both introduced the idea of apps and Microsoft is just following along.
I just hate that Metro is forced unto all users. A checkbox disabling the interface and restoring the start menu would have been great. Let it be on by default, my mom and sister won't think twice about it. I just want to have the option.
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