We have to stop holding dudes up beside Jordan as if that shits in any way the norm, or an expected level of development for your average player. Especially a player like Ibaka.
2012 NBA Offseason |OT2| Lakers Fans Despise Freedom.
- Thread starter Rodeo Clown
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We have to stop holding dudes up beside Jordan as if that shits in any way the norm, or an expected level of development for your average player. Especially a player like Ibaka.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Greg Oden said:
RealGM reply said:
lol
I think when they say a player is in their prime, it's mostly a combination of things. Not just an improved jump shot or passing skills. This also includes higher bone denisty since i think bone growth stops at 25? Generally, the peak of the athletes body conditioning in combination with acquired experience and talent. I do agree with you on jordan/Hakeem being outliers only in that they vastly improved Specific aspects of their games but in general an athlete performs at his peak (prime)past 25.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Naw, once the the Cats win in 2030 (like that Jordan Brand ad predicted) they will run over the league and become the Neo Lakers/Heat fusion.
DY will be an ornery old man.
Ninja Scooter
Member
is that the average human? Or a human that has had the wear and tear of multiple NBA seasons and international competitions on their bodies since the age of 19-20? Why do you think, to the contrary, we are starting to see a bunch of players break down at age 30 rather than hit their peak?
Preach.
Derrick Rose learning how to shoot, things like that are not the norm - Its even worse with bigs too.
The average human/player all of that. Obviously there is wear and tare but like i said prime is a combination of experience, skill and physical attributes. I would put it between 25 and 30. At 30 athletes are generally in decline.
Ninja Scooter
Member
THis. Jordan's development made people think that late primes are not only the norm, but also automatic. I remember again, people arguing when Lebron was 24-25 that he would magically learn a post game and "hit his prime" at 28-30. If anything we'll start to see his decline at 30. Magic and Larry were in their primes in their early 20s and started to decline by 30.
I think the differences we have in opinion here are that you are attributing a player's prime to when he has a better specific skill like a jump shot/pass/defense....while i'm relating prime to overall better performance by an athlete. Obviously there is a plateau and declining phase which i consider to be when a player hits 30.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Yes I'm referring more to their prime in terms of basketball skills. I doubt Serge Ibaka will be any different from the player he is now, in that regard, over the life of this contract.
Even then
Guys are playing harder, younger now. You simply won't see an explosive athlete in their physical prime at age 28-30 anymore.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Today's NBA players? Hell no. These are the same guys who from junior high and high school are playing year round, throw in a year or two of college, then the NBA? Late 20s is asking a lot to be hitting their prime. Kobe hit his prime at about 26,27 or so. The only reason he has been able to stay at an elite level is because he is Kobe muthafuckan Bryant who is obsessed with staying in shape and at the top of his game.
NFL runningbacks? They have an average of what, 2-3 years in this league? Ladanian Tomlinson was the best RB in the league one year and then the next year it was 'Where is LT?'. MLB is quite different though since while MLB players play MUCH MORE games, they aren't throwing their body around like NBA/NFL players. It's why you can see so many players last until their late 30s, or even early 40s.
I guess i agree with this then but there is still time to develop a better jump shot. Post game, i don't know. Even dwight, with all his physical advantages hasn't improved that much over the coarse of his career.
Ibaka's contract is fine, and he has potential to be good. If he can develop his midrange jumpshot more, he'll allow them to go small effectively. They already have the perimeter players to handle it, and they're good enough defensively they can pull it off. Plus, he's young and healthy. Not a bad contract at all. They should look to trade Perk now. PEACE.
Which is why I gave my opinion in terms of overall performance. Again, to be more specific an equilibrium peak of skill, physical attributes and experience.
I really hope at some point soon he does.
Anthony is like the perfect blank slate to instill his teaching early considering that he's only started learning to be a big man for a couple years now and he actually has a good head on his shoulders and good work ethic....screw over the hill Amare and dum dum McGee.
McGee has a better chance of becoming something greater... which is kinda hilarious.
lol the worst part of a team filled with a bunch of young guys is when contract negotiations start. That is a terrible contract and Ibaka is a 100% energy. I personally think they're better off without him... it'd force them to look for someone who can actually score and play solid defence (rather than just trying to block everything)
Knux-Future
Banned
Jrue is going to get paaaaaaaaid.
fuck
fuck
Defensively I feel like they are the same player.
I can't really see either becoming anything spectacular. Solid role players, at best.
AgentChris
Member
That Ibaka contract is laughable.
it's NBA peak.
also, Durant probably isn't in his peak because he's kept adding to his game. So i think it's fair to say he'll continue to get better.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
You can't a guy touch and how to catch in position...
You can teach how to score better from good position.. But Ibaka isn't in that category
The worst part. The absolute stupidest part of the whole thing. Is that the miami series proved that ibaka isn't a great defender. he's not a defensive anchor at all. He as much as anything, cost OKC that series.
But, YNB will probably get a max. Not a lot of contracts make sense.
Speaking of teaching, watching some bird video's. Durant really needs to learn birds post game. He didn't have a huge array of moves. But he got in position, and made them fast and used his great touch. No over powering or anything.
No reason durant shouldn't be doing that. In fact, it would compliment his game extremely well.
It would rely on YNB getting him the ball when he's in position though.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Talking about the improvement thing, Ibaka probably will never be a good offensive player, but he would be worth the contract if he learns how to defend pick-and-roll and proper defensive rebounding position and both of those things can be learned. Ibaka learning those things is something I doubt though considering how much praise and money he's gotten for gambling wildly on every defensive possession.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Don't worry Mitch and Buss will continue to plunder real talent again when teams continue to sign mediocre to average players to all star level contracts.Further proof that Hennigan was the brains of the operation.
Syphon Filter
Member
That....... was terrible.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
I'm at work, someone tell me does Dream perform in the post like a well oiled machine compared to his student in this vid, like he did in that Dwight session video?
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
My god. That was horrible. More so about Stat talking about Stat than it was about showing him learning from Hakeem. Ugh. Horrible.
DCX
DCX
misleading post.
It shows stat unguarded making basic post moves.
Then shooting some FT's
then hakeem walking around
then stat making more basic unguarded post moves.
Syphon Filter
Member
My bad guys. I agree they need more in-depth videos.
*pound*
I like the new Pimpwerx.
All the bitching and moaning goes away as soon as OKC chips.
Is a player that averaged 7/5 on 42% shooting in the finals worth 12 million a year?
Does that mean you'll bitch and moan for a while? Because the title hasn't happened yet and there's no guarantee it'll happen.
shira
Member
This makes no sense. Bone density? Bone growth?
OKC's problems in the Finals were schematic, not talent-based. Our talent was utilized terribly against Miami.
Also, as Moris rightly pointed out, he'd certainly be a max guy on the open market--barring a catastrophic injury, he's still tradeable with this contract if things don't work out. Let's also remember that he doesn't start on his new contract until the 2013-14 season.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
lol you are so one of my favorite posters.
WesternHeretic
Member
Random off topic questions that some of you might know the answer to. Been out of the shoe game for a while, and how much are the 2006 retro 4's worth now a days? Oh and what's the main difference between the 2006 retro 4's (military) versus the 2012 retro 4's (military).
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
OKC's problems in the Finals were that they're mediocre on defense and Harden and the rest of the team had used up all their insanely hot shooting against the Spurs.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Really shows faith in this contract when you are discussing how tradable it is the day it's signed.
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