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[gofreak]

Not all the times as games like Gun have prooven

?

Just looking at the IGN and Gamespot reviews... but they don't mention any performance deficiencies vs the versions for Xbox/PS2. Quite the opposite, in fact. And obviously it was running at much higher resolution, with supposedly better draw distance and better textures here and there. It sounds like it was a technically superior version - even if it was ugly vs other 360 games - and that probably was down to sheer performance improvement rather than any particular care with the port. I'd say it was a hurried port, but enough performance can mask a multitude of sins.

 

[magash]

?

Just looking at the IGN and Gamespot reviews... but they don't mention any performance deficiencies vs the versions for Xbox/PS2. Quite the opposite, in fact. And obviously it was running at much higher resolution, with supposedly better draw distance and better textures here and there. It sounds like it was a technically superior version - even if it was ugly vs other 360 games - and that probably was down to sheer performance improvement rather than any particular care with the port. I'd say it was a hurried port, but enough performance can mask a multitude of sins.

and games like FIFA and Aliens:Colonial Marines are graphically and visually better than their console counterparts.

The bottom line here is the Wii U is stronger than the 360 and PS3. The Wii U also happens to have a newer architecture that developers have to get used to just like how developers had to get used to the newer architecture of the 360/PS3 back in 2005/2006.

 

[Daschysta]

and games like FIFA and Aliens:Colonial Marines are graphically and visually better than their console counterparts.

The bottom line here is the Wii U is stronger than the 360 and PS3. The Wii U also happens to have a newer architecture that developers have to get used to just like how developers had to get used to the newer architecture of the 360/PS3 back in 2005/2006.

Even crap ports like Batman have higher texture resolution, even with all of their problems, copy and paste port jobs don't run perfectly on different architecture, news at 10!

Wii-U's architecture is supposedly more in line with what we'll see from Durango and Orbis, albeit not as powerful, it is still different enough to have to consider, which I doubt these shameless cash in porters are taking into account.

 

[v1oz]

All of the complaints that I've seen have come from developers trying to slap ports on the machine, quite possibly with minimal effort. The CPU's architecture is different from the PS3's or the 360's, you can't just cut and paste and expect an optimized, perfect product, which is probably the extent of the care put into some of these quick cash in ports.

Cross compatibility is extremely important in this era of gaming. Most modern games are built from the ground up using cross platform middle-ware tools like the Unreal engine etc etc. I understand popular tools like Wwise still use the CPU for audio and aren't as of yet off-loading to the DSP. So without good middle ware tools you will not get good performance no matter how much effort you put.

And also from what I've heard Nintendo's compilers and SDKs are slow; poorly documented and not as good as what you get from Sony or Microsoft. That's extra work already for devs to get things up to speed.

Have we heard any complaints about it from developers actually making software for the Wii-U from the ground up? Or even from developers who are putting work into optimizing their ports to take advantage of the Wii-U? Vigil? Ubisoft? Gearbox? Anyone? I don't think I have though it could be out there certainly...

Alot of the developer comments we've heard have been anonymous. Therefore we dont know if they came from within Ubisoft or Gearbox or Vigil.

 

[zoukka]

Hmm? I thought the it was confirmed TP assets in some interview. Got any source that says otherwise?

I'll just trust my eyes. If someone can point out where these assets are, I'd be happy to admit being wrong.

 

[AntMurda]

I might be wrong but I believe Gamecube was mostly designed in the west by a company called Art-X (now a part of AMD). They didn't just make the GPU, they also did the motherboard and had input on the overall system.

Howard Cheng and the lead engineers left for Nintendo Technology Development. Similarly Wei Yen who was lead design on the N64 started ikuni which Nintendo invested in.

 

[TheD]

Even crap ports like Batman have higher texture resolution, even with all of their problems, copy and paste port jobs don't run perfectly on different architecture, news at 10!

So wait, the game that is adding new content, changing the graphics and adding WiiU pad view that is used for a whole bunch of things is now a 'crap port"?!

 

[Daschysta]

So wait, the game that they are adding new content, changing the graphics and adding WiiU pad view that is used for a whole bunch of things is now a 'crap port"?!

Hands on impressions have been very negative, perhaps it has changed? I was referring to performance.

 

[Sid]

So wait, the game that they are adding new content, changing the graphics and adding WiiU pad view that is used for a whole bunch of things is now a 'crap port"?!

What new content? and graphics have been downgraded in a few areas i think.

 

[Donnie]

Maybe because they don't realize that 10x 360 / PS3 is still a pretty beefy PC these days, which the Wii U will of course not be on par with.

Well as I remember it for a long time most people expected the system after Wii to not even be as powerful as current gen, they expected another GC to Wii jump. But things like this seem to be forgotten very easily.

Plenty of people also probably don't realise/remember that developers complained quite a bit about 360/PS3's CPU's back before they were released. There were anonymous devs back then talking to Anandtech and others saying pretty damning things about them. Saying that Xenon was only twice as fast as XBox's CPU, effectively slower than two standard clocked Broadway CPU's.

Now is everyone here going to believe that was really the case? Or are they going to put it down to some devs having problems with early development on a different CPU?

 

[SmokyDave]

...crap ports....

...shameless cash in porters...

Shameful.

 

[Sid]

and games like FIFA and Aliens:Colonial Marines are graphically and visually better than their console counterparts.

The bottom line here is the Wii U is stronger than the 360 and PS3. The Wii U also happens to have a newer architecture that developers have to get used to just like how developers had to get used to the newer architecture of the 360/PS3 back in 2005/2006.

Really?

 

[TheD]

What new content? and graphics have been downgraded in a few areas i think.

The armored edition changes and the graphics, cut down or not, have been changed in other ways and show a fare amount of effort is being put into it.

 

[Sid]

The armored edition changes and the graphics, cut down or not, have been changed in other ways and show a fare amount of effort is being put into it.

Are those changes new levels/areas/missions or not?

 

[magash]

Really?

"Someone asked me 'Are the graphics on par?'"

At the recent EA Summer Showcase event, FIFA 13 Wii U Line Producer Matt Prior explained recent statements that the Wii U version of EA's soccer franchise will be the "best looking" compared to other consoles. "And they are on par," he continued, "and there are a couple of features that we have been able to graphically enhance."

"It's not going to be miles ahead," Prior then cautioned, wary of setting expectations too high for a game that, as we spoke, was still being feverishly developed with the intention of hitting the market in step with Nintendo's upcoming console. "But two things we have improved just in terms of the fidelity and quality are the pitch," he detailed. "If you have a look at the pitch texture there's a lot more detail in it and we're working on that as we speak to hopefully improve it even further."

Here is a link. The quote is from Matt Prior.

 

[v1oz]

Howard Cheng and the lead engineers left for Nintendo Technology Development. Similarly Wei Yen who was lead design on the N64 started ikuni which Nintendo invested in.

The main guy that designed the N64, Gamecube & Wii graphics architectures was Tim Van Hook. He was at AMD, but is retired now and became an artist. TEV was his baby.

An old article
http://eetimes.com/electronics-news/4044411/The-startup-that-saved-ATI

This is his site
http://undrian.com/undrian.com/undrian_bio.html

 

[Donnie]

What new content? and graphics have been downgraded in a few areas i think.

What's your source for that?

 

[XPE]

I'll just trust my eyes. If someone can point out where these assets are, I'd be happy to admit being wrong.

Isn’t the giant spider from the 2nd TP trailer?

Not saying they are the exact same thing, they would most likely touch up the models.

 

[Sid]

What's your source for that?

No off tv play besides some puzzles:
http://www.destructoid.com/e3-batman-arkham-city-armored-edition-kind-of-hurts-229275.phtml

As for the graphics i can't recall the source but i think there was a thread on this.

 

[Donnie]

No off tv play besides some puzzles:
http://www.destructoid.com/e3-batman-arkham-city-armored-edition-kind-of-hurts-229275.phtml

As for the graphics i can't recall the source but i think there was a thread on this.

If you have no source you shouldn't really make claims.. I remember the comparison article that came out for Arkham City.. Which showed that in a lot of ways the WiiU version had been upgraded (anti aliasing, better textures) and in others it had just been designed differently. As in a scene would have less structures in one area but more structures in another, I can't remember any scenes where things had just been removed and nothing added.

 

[Sid]

If you have no source you shouldn't really make claims. I can't remember any conclusive evidence that things had been downgraded. I remember an article showing comparison pics. Which showed that in a lot of ways the WiiU version had been upgraded (anti aliasing, better textures) and in others it had just been designed differently. As in a scene would have less structures in one area but more structures in another, I can't remember any scenes where things had just been removed and nothing added.

I didn't make any claims,i said i think i remember reading that on a thread here,nothing more if not then great.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Wii+ CPUs, 3rd generation old graphic card as a basis for their GPU, and only 32MB fast ram+1GB of system ram available for developers?

This would have been a great contender, power wise, current gen.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Shameful.

I don't know about shameful.

Shortsighted maybe?

It's not like every dev has the big money to burn on altering code in extreme ways. From what our own GAFdevs have alluded to, the system is effectively more powerful, but marginally so. All the while having enough differences from the PS3/360 to pose problems when porting.

Especially when using engines designed under a different technical paradigm.

Or it could just be that Nintendo is insane. We've all seen the well documented proof.

 

[OTIX]

Wii was like a fish going upstream against a raging river. I say the fish won because it managed to reach its destination but others can say the river wins because it continues to flow unabated.

I just wanted to quote this because it's beautiful. Thank you.

 

[FyreWulff]

Wii+ CPUs, 3rd generation old graphic card as a basis for their GPU, and only 32MB fast ram+1GB of system ram available for developers?

This would have been a great contender, power wise, current gen.

32MB is EDRAM, which is 3 times what the 360 has (10MB). Wii U won't be having any sub-HD games like the 360 did (and still does) and twice the RAM, and won't be limited to a DVD size, so in theory you should be seeing higher resolution textures from the PC version of a game coming over to Wii U.

 

[Log4Girlz]

32MB is EDRAM, which is 3 times what the 360 has (10MB). Wii U won't be having any sub-HD games like the 360 did (and still does) and twice the RAM, and won't be limited to a DVD size, so in theory you should be seeing higher resolution textures from the PC version of a game coming over to Wii U.

Its definitely closer to last gen than next gen.

 

[Donnie]

Wii+ CPUs, 3rd generation old graphic card as a basis for their GPU, and only 32MB fast ram+1GB of system ram available for developers?

This would have been a great contender, power wise, current gen.

People who have no idea about hardware probably shouldn't try to summarise it.

 

[onQ123]

Its definitely closer to last gen than next gen.

Maybe but how do you know that?

 

[Rocket Scientist]

Haven't read the whole thread, because it's way too long (How does shit grow so fast on gaming side...), but what does this mean for porting/ports given the specs of other next gen consoles?

 

[Donnie]

Its definitely closer to last gen than next gen.

If it is does that make it ok to downplay it in such an ignorant way?

 

[Log4Girlz]

Maybe but how do you know that?

Specs. If the GPU was magically an 800 horse power engine then the 1 GB of RAM are the equivalent of balding tires and the CPU from all descriptions are drum brakes. The car as a package is not going to go racing. The next-gen systems, even if the GPU were the same, will likely have faster CPUs and much greater RAM as far as all the rumors go. The 1 GB is just double last gen's quantity. This would be the very biggest bottleneck IMO.

 

[2MF]

Haven't read the whole thread, because it's way too long (How does shit grow so fast on gaming side...), but what does this mean for porting/ports given the specs of other next gen consoles?

It means jack shit. Even if we believe the OP we still don't know either Wii U's specs or the other upcoming console's specs. It's very vague info.

 

[M°°nblade]

32MB is EDRAM, which is 3 times what the 360 has (10MB). Wii U won't be having any sub-HD games like the 360 did (and still does) and twice the RAM, and won't be limited to a DVD size, so in theory you should be seeing higher resolution textures from the PC version of a game coming over to Wii U.

I wouldn't count on that since the hardware is not that much more powerful than the lead platform and still new / in need of further engine optimalisation. Some of the developers may still choose the subHD resolution route when having problems porting PS360 games.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Specs. If the GPU was magically an 800 horse power engine then the 1 GB of RAM are the equivalent of balding tires and the CPU from all descriptions are drum brakes. The car as a package is not going to go racing. The next-gen systems, even if the GPU were the same, will likely have faster CPUs and much greater RAM as far as all the rumors go. The 1 GB is just double last gen's quantity. This would be the very biggest bottleneck IMO.

Not that I am disagreeing, but using the word "definitely" and backing it up with the word "rumor" is probably not the smartest way to go about things.

 

[vaelic]

8gb lol

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Its definitely closer to last gen than next gen.

But the beautiful thing my wooden friend?

The difference between an M2 and an Xbox is 20 million polygons, pixel-shaders, and 15x the memory.

WiiU will be weaker by quite a bit. But 500 million pps peak vs a few billion? 1 gig vs 6 gigs?

It really means nothing close to what it did before. Approximations of GI are fairly convincing. Though more time consuming.

WiiU is an M2 in this scenario. Nintendo fans have to get over whatever hang ups they have, because in some cases it just won't happen. I'd say you're not likely to get ports of everything.

I do think it will be much more likely, if developers think there's a market for it, for the WiiU to get ports from Orbis or Durango. But I can guarantee they won't be anywhere near as pretty. Especially if they don't put some funding into them.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Not that I am disagreeing, but using the word "definitely" and backing it up with the word "rumor" is probably not the smartest way to go about things.

I'm a piece of wood what do you expect. lol

 

[glimmerman]

If these specs are supposed to satisfy Nintendo's objective of re-capturing the hardcore gaming market over the next 5 to 10 years, I'd be very worried if I was them.

And I know lots of people said that about Wii, but at least it had a unique and brand new mechanic at the time.

IMO, this is not going to compete well against nextgen platforms. Flame away, I'm not a fanboy of any particular console, I have them all. I just don't see this type of spec doing well 2-3 years in to the lifespan.

 

[FyreWulff]

I wouldn't count on that since the hardware is not that much more powerful than the lead platform and still new / in need of further engine optimalisation. Some of the developers may still choose the subHD resolution route when having problems porting PS360 games.

Sub-HD wasn't power related (strictly), it was the fact that you couldn't fit a 720p framebuffer into the EDRAM with full HDR, etc without resorting to tiling, which is a notable hit on performance since it was only 10MB. Halo 3 was 640p for this reason, Halo Reach was full 720p in the vertical dimension and had lower HDR range, and Halo 4 has even lower HDR range and is the first new full 720p Halo title on console.

the Wii U will be able to do full HDR @ 720p without tiling.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'm a piece of wood what do you expect. lol

Stiff or mulch, they have no other settings.

 

[M°°nblade]

Sub-HD wasn't power related, it was the fact that you couldn't fit a 720p framebuffer into the EDRAM with full HDR, etc without resorting to tiling, which is a notable hit on performance since it was only 10MB. Halo 3 was 640p for this reason, Halo Reach was full 720p in the vertical dimension and had lower HDR range, and Halo 4 has even lower HDR range and is the first new full 720p Halo title on console.

the Wii U will be able to do full HDR @ 720p without tiling.

From my understanding, it's not just EDRAM/full HDR related. The PS3 has subHD games as well and doesn't even have EDRAM.

 

[Donnie]

Specs. If the GPU was magically an 800 horse power engine then the 1 GB of RAM are the equivalent of balding tires and the CPU from all descriptions are drum brakes. The car as a package is not going to go racing. The next-gen systems, even if the GPU were the same, will likely have faster CPUs and much greater RAM as far as all the rumors go. The 1 GB is just double last gen's quantity. This would be the very biggest bottleneck IMO.

WiiU has 1GB for games right now but I'd expect that to increase as the OS footprint is nailed down. For instance PS3 had under 400MB for games at first which quickly increased to just over 400MB and then a year or so after increased to something like 460MB.

Also lets not judge the CPU quite yet.

 

[big_z]

Specs. If the GPU was magically an 800 horse power engine then the 1 GB of RAM are the equivalent of balding tires and the CPU from all descriptions are drum brakes. The car as a package is not going to go racing. The next-gen systems, even if the GPU were the same, will likely have faster CPUs and much greater RAM as far as all the rumors go. The 1 GB is just double last gen's quantity. This would be the very biggest bottleneck IMO.

for this gen the system is easy to port for which i imagine is what nintendo was going after. for next gen the system itself is a bottleneck. next gen consoles are going to be much more powerful and very shader heavy. while wiiU can do more advanced shaders than this gen it doesnt have the horse power to do a lot of them. when the art assets of next gen games rely heavily on shaders to look good cutting back on them is going to make your game look like shit fast. i cant see many developers putting in the effort to make wiiU versions and that imo is the biggest bottleneck.

cutting back on specs and having the weakest console of the generation is fine if you can still get those ports. youre screwing yourself when youre cutting back power so much that your a generation behind.

 

[TheD]

People who have no idea about hardware probably shouldn't try to summarise it.

Ironic (because he is right).

 

[FyreWulff]

From my understanding, it's not just EDRAM/full HDR related. The PS3 has subHD games as well and doesn't even have EDRAM.

The PS3 subHD games were even lower res than the 360's subHD games, probably due to that.

Either way, we're going from the Wii (which had essentially a whole 3MB of VRAM to play with) to a console with 32MB, and the 360 was limited to 10MB and DVDs. I'm not really concerned about the Wii U's ability to do HD gaming.

 

[Donnie]

If these specs are supposed to satisfy Nintendo's objective of re-capturing the hardcore gaming market over the next 5 to 10 years, I'd be very worried if I was them.

And I know lots of people said that about Wii, but at least it had a unique and brand new mechanic at the time.

IMO, this is not going to compete well against nextgen platforms. Flame away, I'm not a fanboy of any particular console, I have them all. I just don't see this type of spec doing well 2-3 years in to the lifespan.

WiiU will be replaced in 5 years. Also what specs are you seeing here other than RAM currently available to devs? Seriously, enhanced Broadway CPU isn't a spec.

 

[Log4Girlz]

WiiU has 1GB for games right now but I'd expect that to increase as the OS footprint is nailed down. For instance PS3 had under 400MB for games at first which quickly increased to just over 400MB and then a year or so after increased to something like 460MB.

Also lets not judge the CPU quite yet.

How much room there is to grow depends on whether the system has 1.5 GB overall or 2 GB. I don't see Nintendo reserving a whole GB to an OS, so it seems more likely to have 1.5 GB. That's not a lot of room. Sure, we only have vague rumors, but so far it looks like the other systems will have 2 GB for games minimum.

for this gen the system is easy to port for which i imagine is what nintendo was going after. for next gen the system itself is a bottleneck. next gen consoles are going to be much more powerful and very shader heavy. while wiiU can do more advanced shaders than this gen it doesnt have the horse power to do a lot of them. when the art assets of next gen games rely heavily on shaders to look good cutting back on them is going to make your game look like shit fast. i cant see many developers putting in the effort to make wiiU versions and that imo is the biggest bottleneck.

cutting back on specs and having the weakest console of the generation is fine if you can still get those ports. youre screwing yourself when youre cutting back power so much that your a generation behind.

Though it remains to be seen just how much more powerful the competition is, a substantial amount of RAM makes porting so much less of a hassle. But, alas, yeah the system could just be too weak to handle all the new shaders and new physics going into AAA games.

Again, I stick by my statement that the Wii U is closer to this gen than next.

 

[Majanew]

Don't get your panties all in a knot, and go look how many games run in lower than HD for the sake of effect and frame rate,then come back and say sorry...

Most games are HD, so you're wrong.

 

[Donnie]

Ironic (because he is right).

He didn't say anything conclusive enough to be right..

 

[hodgy100]

Wii+ CPUs, 3rd generation old graphic card as a basis for their GPU, and only 32MB fast ram+1GB of system ram available for developers?

This would have been a great contender, power wise, current gen.

The graphics chip wasn't available until 2 years after the wii was released.

The GPU should be considerably more capable than current gen consoles provided they are using a variation of the HD 4800 higher end GPU's from that generation.

If this was released when the 360 and ps3 came out it wouldn't have been a contender it would have been considerably more powerful.

Even though the wii u most likely wont come near to the next gen consoles, I'm very surprised that many people expected them with Nintendo's recent track record.

Personally while I wont get the wii u on launch I'll probably wait for a couple of nintendo's heavier hitters NSMB just doesn't do it for me. but a new mario that may be better than galaxy! God i cant wait!