Vulcano's assistant
Banned
This is how I imagine half of Gaf members.
Rumor: Wii U final specs
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
This is how I imagine half of Gaf members.
It seems we're also still stuck on the assumption that the gap between PS4, the next Xbox, and Wii U will be the same as it was between PS360 and the Wii. Put quite simply, we just don't know anything regarding this. At all. We have no concrete evidence of what Sony's and Microsoft's next gen consoles will be like, only rumors and speculation.
It's a pointless argument that's gonna go on and on until E3 2013.
It's a pointless argument that's gonna go on and on until E3 2013.
chertipros
Member
Pretty much. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't this be the first stop gap console to ever actually be released? (Since the Panosonic M2 and phantom were cancelled)
Oh cool we're back to current-gen/next-gen. Since we're already here, what happens if Nintendo's next console in 2018 or so remains at the same level of power as the Wii did? What if they go the VR route or something like that, and choose innovation over a big power jump? Will they have released their 3rd 7th generation console? This is an honest hypothetical question. What if they release 5 more consoles, all choosing new control schemes over graphical updates? Is Nintendo going to forever be in the 7th generation?
Majmun
Member
We're only talking about power. But what about online structure?? Nintnedo still has a lot of catching up to do. It's definitely something that accounts to this whole next gen thing. Sony and ESPECIALLY MS have been doing great things with it.
Nintendo added HD, but that's only a beginning.
Nintendo added HD, but that's only a beginning.
test_account
XP-39C²
The leap would have happened sooner or later. Would it be better if every console was on par with the Wii in terms of hardware power in this generation, then next generation it would be up to PS3/Xbox 360 hardware power? Would a smoother transaction like this have ment much less risks for the studios?
It's not really a stopgap, that would imply that it is a temporary measure by Nintendo that they plan to abandon before the end of a standard cycle in favor of a full measure.
WiiU is slightly more powerful than PS3 and 360, and Wii was slightly more powerful than GCN and Xbox.
I think that Wii was intended to be a stopgap console, but Nintendo changed their plans when it became so successful.
And hopefully they taste good.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Given Nintendo has never used a stock part for their consoles, just writing off the idea that it's part of the R700 series therefore incapable is silly.
Saint Gregory
Member
My opinion on this has been pretty consistent throughout this gen, Nintendo undershot what would have been an acceptable power level and Sony and MS overshot it.
If you consider how long it took MS to get the price of the 360 down to mass market level and stable hardware they could have easily released a console somewhere between the Wii and PS3 in terms of power for $299 in 2005 and then have been poised to release something along the power level of the WiiU in 2010 for the same price.
How different would MS's fortunes and the overall health of the market have been under that scenario?
shinra-bansho
Member
RE: "next generation"
It's most certainly "debatable" because it really is subjective and opinion-based.
Unless someone considers themselves the sole unquestionable authority on such matters... which is silly.
It's most certainly "debatable" because it really is subjective and opinion-based.
Unless someone considers themselves the sole unquestionable authority on such matters... which is silly.
Can you really call the Wii U a stopgap in the same way that the Game Boy Color was? I mean, I doubt you're going to see Nintendo scramble to get their next next gen system out in 2-3 years time. Like it or not, the Wii U is going to be the next Nintendo console hardware and it's going to be around for at least 5 years.
Well, it appears that way for both sides of the fence then.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
Just got back from the Real Racing iPhone5 thread and I can't but help thinking that Nintendo is, once again, on the right track with downplaying horsepower and specs, begging us to follow their way while we march in our folly to our HD doom.
I mean, there is no way phones/tablets won't outmatch PS4/XB3 by the end of their lifetime. I wouldn't even bat an eye if you told me the iPhone5 outspec'd the Wii U. So what's the point? Where has being a beast of a machine got the Vita?
I'm not saying I don't want my games to look better, of course I do and anyone saying otherwise is lying. I just feel like Nintendo reached out this gen and said, "Hey, you don't have to go bankrupt making HD games, you don't have to make a copycat dudebro military shooter, here is the Wii" and everyone just clung to their shaders or what the fuck ever and sank.
NOTE: I'm sick and on three different medications, at least two of them sleep inducing, so pardon rambleness.
EDIT: Also, if we see a new Wii/Nintendo console in 4-5 years (typical Nintendo generation) that's only 2-3 years into PS4/XB3, which would mean Nintendo could release an 'on-par' successor, profitably, with whatever innovation they come up with.
I mean, there is no way phones/tablets won't outmatch PS4/XB3 by the end of their lifetime. I wouldn't even bat an eye if you told me the iPhone5 outspec'd the Wii U. So what's the point? Where has being a beast of a machine got the Vita?
I'm not saying I don't want my games to look better, of course I do and anyone saying otherwise is lying. I just feel like Nintendo reached out this gen and said, "Hey, you don't have to go bankrupt making HD games, you don't have to make a copycat dudebro military shooter, here is the Wii" and everyone just clung to their shaders or what the fuck ever and sank.
NOTE: I'm sick and on three different medications, at least two of them sleep inducing, so pardon rambleness.
EDIT: Also, if we see a new Wii/Nintendo console in 4-5 years (typical Nintendo generation) that's only 2-3 years into PS4/XB3, which would mean Nintendo could release an 'on-par' successor, profitably, with whatever innovation they come up with.
shinra-bansho
Member
Pretty much.
If it's about time, what space of time delimits a generation? What region are we referring to in terms of release date?
If it's about power, what degree of increase?
It's relatively arbitrary and subjective - and more a marketing buzzword than anything else, as earlier implied.
You greatly overestimate mobile hardware. Battery tech needs to come a long way before this scenario is even remotely possible.
The true test if the wiiu is really a next gen system will be what games it plays. If it only gets ps360 games or if it can run ps720 games. That is the real question. If it play last gen game then most will feel its a last gen system when the next gen of systems comes out.
The way it looking it will be alot closer to ps360 than ps720. But the good thing its coming out this year and should be really cheap.
The way it looking it will be alot closer to ps360 than ps720. But the good thing its coming out this year and should be really cheap.
This made me chuckle, a lot.
Haha what?
The iPhone 5 isn't even close to Xbox360 and PS3, and that gen is pretty much over. I don't think any smartphone released between now and 2018 will beat the Wii U, let alone PS4 and Xbox 3. Thermodynamics and all that jazz.
Still, your point is interesting, but on a completely different level: People obviously don't really notice the difference anymore. Diminishing returns. Smartphones have a much shorter lifecycle, so they always support the latest smoke and mirrors - without the actual performance to back it up. But who cares? Looks good enough. Sure, Project Cars probably puts the performance equivalent of a whole iPhone 5 into just simulating the suspension physics for a single car, but you don't see that in a screenshot. You might not even notice it playing the actual games. Gran Turismo 1 ran on a PS1 after all...
Dion Blaster
Member
Yeah I used the term stopgap wrong, I just meant somewhere in between in terms of power.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
That's not to say I believe the potential is there.
But I expect some degree of significant modification.
AMD worked more than two years on tweaking that particular part. Two. Years.
You are right. Arkam has even said as much that the GPU is developed beyond the baseline 10.1 Shader 4.1 stuff.
Someone arkam has been talking with took it and ran to vgleaks except they didn't have the "final" specs as they claimed
so... the wii u is going to differentiate itself from tablets and smartphones not by hardware performance but by using a novel tablet based touch interface amirite?
Everything I keep seeing tells me this is going to be 'the device you play the nintendo games on'
Not according to the post on B3D from espresso (see first page of this thread).
Thunder Monkey
Banned
All I was saying is don't expect miracles, but writing off what potential it has because it's loosely based on the R700 series is silly.
I doubt they've dedicated transistors to just lighting solutions, but it's been in development for long enough that there's no telling how much it even resembles the R700 series anymore.
I've been following.
I just like to be one of the more rational arguing with Specialguy. Makes Nintendo fans look good when we have honest arguments with people. Even those that can occasionally be obtuse.
Technically the 476P is an enhanced broadway as the 476P line is a direct line from Gekko/Broadway.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Do you mean 476FP? I've seen several bits and pieces linking it to the gekko/broadway, but not an official IBM doc yet.
yeah 476FP. Funny enough in the initial introduction documents for the 476FP they list game consoles as a use for it and show a picture of the Wii
Haint
Member
What leads you to believe the U's GPU is that far ahead, and perhaps more importantly, why has none of the content showcased anything even approaching it thus far? It seems like with double the RAM and that kind of GPU advantage, even the most incompetent, shoe string budgeted developer would be able to get enhanced ports running on U. Unfortunately, much of the stuff has been criticized as looking and running worse than the PS360 counter parts. Even moderately budgeted "exclusive" content (e.g. Zombie U) looks like relatively middling PS360 fare. It just seems like most of the evidence goes against your assertions at this point.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Yep. I remember that, and I believe that that doc is still on the web page. There was a poster on another forum that very strongly stated that it was a direct descendant. He spoke like he had some fairly deep knowledge about it.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
this - basically
for everyone else it seems to be a bit of each machine : Part X360 , Part Ipad, Part Wii.
It's the Wagglestien console and the problem it has is where it appeals outside of Nintendo fans. I can see the appeal to them, but outside that realm i don't see why anyone else would care UNLESS we get some killer games announced today (i'm already pretty sure we've got some coming) and a price to match.
LightofRohan
Member
Think there is a good chance they'll do HD versions of Wii/GC games? That might be reason enough for me to get it. 
I want Smash Bro Melee HD, Windwaker HD, Twin Snakes HD, Eternal Darkness HD... I can't think of any Wii games. But I'd want em.
I want Smash Bro Melee HD, Windwaker HD, Twin Snakes HD, Eternal Darkness HD... I can't think of any Wii games. But I'd want em.
Probably because 2-3x isn't really as much as it sounds like, is attached to a value that doesn't mean a whole lot, and is on a launch console. If I remember correctly, the Xbox gpu was about 4x as powerful in terms of flops when compared to a PS2, but that doesn't mean Xbox games looked 4x as good. So your "even the most incompetent" dev argument doesn't really hold up. I'm not saying that the Wii U is a beast, because it isn't, but implying that it is simply exactly on par with the PS360 is a little silly.
Simple, Money. If they just do a straight port they will probably sell just as many copies as if they had spent a long time programming compute shaders and using all of the Wii U's wazzy shit to make it sexy.
Just wait until Bad Piggies is announced as a Wii U timed exclusive. Then you'll see the appeal to non Nintendo fans
DragonSworne
Banned
Xbox was a class and above the PS2
Dynamite Ringo Matsuri
Member
Jonny Ive worked three years on tweaking Apple's earpods. THREE. YEARS.
I kid. I hope we have some pleasant surprises at Nintendo Direct
People have inflated the imaginary specs of consoles that don't even officially exist yet so much, they're only setting themselves up for a letdown when they're actually revealed.
Don't want to get involved in your whole tech wars discussion. Just thought I'd link that Kotaku article from a while back. It has some pretty decent insight on the whole shader model thing and what it might be able to do and the cpu etc
So we know that it has 10.1 DX equivalent performance? And possible DX11 like shader capability? So it can run UE3 enhanced Star Wars 1313 like stuff?
So we know that it has 10.1 DX equivalent performance? And possible DX11 like shader capability? So it can run UE3 enhanced Star Wars 1313 like stuff?
Trust me when I say there is no such thing as DX performance, it's completely bogus, like trying to measure the Horse Power of a car by only using the year the car was released.
Case in point, AMD E-350 is a DX11 part with 80GFLOPs, which is 3x weaker than Xenos.
Also, it's pointless to compare anything DirectX to non-MS consoles, considering its MS proprietary technology.
FindMyFarms
Member
Or the majority if it's fighting game gaf amirite
Zoramon089
Banned
It is funny how when the Wii U is rumored to be 2-3x the PS3/360 and people claim it's not a huge jump over them but the PS4/720 being rumored to be 2-3x over the Wii U IS a huge jump over it
Tessellation is a hugely intensive task!
It is also in no way anything like LOD!
Adaptive tessellation can be used to enhance LOD, but it is nothing like swapping models out based on distance!
+1
Shader model 4.1 =! Shader model 5
Just because it has some custom stuff that is not in the SM4.1 spec does not mean it is SM5.
All modern GPUs have have things that are not in a Direct X shader model, but that does not mean they support a higher Direct X shader model!
If it is R7xx based then one of the "beyond DX10.1" things would be it's older style tessellator.
Just because it does not use the DX API does not mean it is pointless due to the DX specs mandating a minimum level of feature support.
SDXC supports up to 2TB. The largest you can currently buy is 128GB. I really hope Nintendo supports SDXC saying there is no internal 2.5" drive...
Technically the PowerPC 476FP is an enhanced* "Broadway".
*The same processor technology found in Watson