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[2MF]

Wii, current gen.
Wii U, next gen.
This is not debatable.

We are in the gen where history is rewritten:

- gens are now defined by hardware power.
- 7-8 year long gens are now the norm and always have been.
- consoles are high-powered noisy beasts that must appear to compete with high-end PCs. Anything else is last-gen, improper and should be trolled into submission.

Short-term memory™.

 

[chertipros]

Once again, Nintendo is doing a short-life period machine like Wii was. They can manage to do a better hardware than this and still manage to profit. Iwata is completely lost in the dark with his "low costs, high profita" philosophy who's starting to get stale and can hurt Nintendo's credibilty as a console maker.

LOL lost in the dark. Let him run his company the way he wants too. Because he has done a fantastic job so far and definitely knows what hes doing

 

[prag16]

My guess is, I dont think you can just add a dab of DX11 to a DX10 GPU. Nor do I think Nintendo would bother with that expense. If they did that they would have used something besides R7XX to begin with.

My guess is it's a straight DX10 GPU with some trivial DX11 things allowed by Nintendo's API.

It is a shame some people are going to be able to use such things to consistently maintain there is a DX11 GPU in there though.

Your second paragraph doesn't fit with your first paragraph. Isn't "a straight DX10 GPU with some trivial DX11 things allowed by Nintendo's API" "adding a dab of DX11 to a DX10 GPU"?

And why are you assuming the customizations will be trivial? As was said, it's been described as having "2012 bells and whistles".

You and Van Owen probably get along well..

 

[Metalmurphy]

Wii, current gen.
Wii U, next gen.
This is not debatable.

It's being debated, so technically it's debatable.

It's been said, but it makes for poor discussion when people change the meaning of words and phrases to fit their argument.

Also, I assume that link takes you to an article about the oh so reliable "anonymous" devs.

Link's been fixed, it was for go nintendo . com . Didn't knew they were banned.

I wouldn't really call Randy Pitchford anonymous.

 

[maquiladora]

I don't really care about the specs myself. Just show me some games that will make me want to buy a Wii U. I didn't see any at E3.

 

[CaptNfantasy]

I mean, we pore over tiny differences between Xbox and PS3 multiplatforms, when the Xbox and PS3 are almost completely equal in CPU, GPU, RAM. Omg! The PS3 version looks exactly the same but has 5% more tearing! The sky is falling! What do you think will happen to the Wii U?

Sounds like a true nightmare shaping up. I might have to downgrade the importance of videogames in my life from the "food, water, clothes, shelter" tier to the "something i do here and there in between my actual life" tier.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

LOL lost in the dark. Let him run his company the way he wants too. Because he has done a fantastic job so far and definitely knows what hes doing

Fantastic job for shareholders perhaps. Gamers? That's very debatable.

 

[Metalmurphy]

No it's not debatable. Power doesn't define generations. We've had this argument SO many times before. It's always been by release date before. Always. The idea that this should change this gen is ridiculous.

It's always been by release date? What nonsense is that? The Mega Drive/Genesis released 1 freaking year after the Master System in JP for example.

 

[1-UP]

It's being debated, so technically it's debatable.

You can debate all you want but you can't change the facts.

 

[Majmun]

WiiU is Nintendo's first step into HD gaming. It's definitely Nintendo's next gen system...

Don't know what other developers think.

 

[Celine]

Once again, Nintendo is doing a short-life period machine like Wii was. They can manage to do a better hardware than this and still manage to profit. Iwata is completely lost in the dark with his "low costs, high profita" philosophy who's starting to get stale and can hurt Nintendo's credibilty as a console maker.

Bwahahaha
The guy is running the company as envisioned by Yamauchi.
Nintendo was always a low costs, high margin company.
The difference is that now part of the R&D goes directly into something else outside the graphics performance.

 

[BlackJace]

It's being debated, so technically it's debatable.

This is one of the poorest rebuttals I have ever seen. Put some effort into in.

Anyways, its a shame we got this revisionist thing going on when discussing the term "next gen". It's also funny that this has never been brought up prior to this gen.

EDIT: Even if you can argue that it was, I highly doubt it was discussed to these ridiculous lengths.

 

[KageMaru]

Fantastic job for shareholders perhaps. Gamers? That's very debatable.

They have provided excellent titles in their flagship franchises, introduced new (successful) IPs, and have gone in a direction that MS and Sony have pursued.

I would most definitely say they have done a good job for gamers. Is their system for everyone? No, of course not, but you can say the same for any system from MS and Sony.

 

[Hawk269]

I don't really care about the specs myself. Just show me some games that will make me want to buy a Wii U. I didn't see any at E3.

Well said. While I think Specs are important because if it is too underpowered, we would get games visually that dont look much better than what we are already use too. But at the end of the day, it comes down to games and games that make you want to buy the system and like you, I have not seen anything that makes me want to buy the hardware.

While the Mario game looks like fun, how many times have we played that already in a 2-d platform way? Knowing how much they have banking on the system, you would think a proper Mario game would be ready or one of the other big franchises.

Hopefully tomorrow we get some good games shown/announced.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

WiiU is Nintendo's first step into HD gaming. It's definitely Nintendo's next gen system...

Don't know what other developers think.

"Port PS3/360 onto it." is what they're thinking.

 

[Metalmurphy]

This is one of the poorest rebuttals I have ever seen. Put some effort into in.

If that's all you gonna read from my posts then yeah, but makes sense that you WOULD ignore the rest...

It's also funny that this has never been brought up prior to this gen.

Nintendo decided to change the rules.

 

[Diablos54]

It's always been by release date? What nonsense is that? The Mega Drive released 1 freaking year after the Master System in JP for example.

Nonsense? Hey, don't blame me, I didn't create the rules. That's just how it's always been done. IIRC, Master System was a 3rd gen system, and Mega Drive was a 4th gen system. The MS was released in '85, and the MD in '88.

 

[chertipros]

Fantastic job for shareholders perhaps. Gamers? That's very debatable.

Anything is debatable. And Iwata knows his target audience (nintendo fans) and he gives them what they want (nintendo games). Nintendo fans are gamers last i checked so i can't see how he did a bad job

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Bwahahaha
The guy is running the company as envisioned by Yamauchi.
Nintendo was always a low costs, high margin company.
The difference is that now part of the R&D goes directly into something else outside the graphics performance.

NES, SNES, N64 and GC had very nice specs for the time's standards and they were all profitable.

 

[Celine]

It's being debated, so technically it's debatable.

Well it's debatable if you are dense.

"Next gen" Nintendo hardware is the system that will host the next iteration of Nintendo franchises.

 

[Supermanisdead]

Wii, current gen.
Wii U, next gen.
This is not debatable.

It's absurd how the last-gen/next-gen thing is STILL going on. I don't know how ridiculous fanboy logic is still so common.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Nonsense? Hey, don't blame me, I didn't create the rules. That's just how it's always been done. IIRC, Master System was a 3rd gen system, and Mega Drive was a 4th gen system. The MS was released in '85, and the MD in '88.

Master System released in 86. 85 was the SG-1000 Mk3, which btw, was very different from the Master System, yet considered to be in the same generation? Why? It wasn't a big increase in power.

And in Japan they were released ONE YEAR apart.

 

[KageMaru]

This is one of the poorest rebuttals I have ever seen. Put some effort into in.

Anyways, its a shame we got this revisionist thing going on when discussing the term "next gen". It's also funny that this has never been brought up prior to this gen.

Judging by his prior posts, he has a difficulty being open minded towards anything that isn't on a Sony platform. I'd just ignore him and let him go on with his ignorance.

 

[EVIL]

why are we even discussing DX10/11 in a nintendo system? openGL is quite a diffrent (faster and better beast then DirectX)

 

[BlackJace]

If that's all you gonna read from my posts then yeah, but makes sense that you WOULD ignore the rest...

I started to reply to your post, that's why I didn't see your other response. Forgive me for that. But that the part I did respond to still stands, that was a poor rebuttal.

Nintendo decided to change the rules.

Explain these rules please.

 

[Celine]

NES, SNES, N64 and GC had very nice specs for the time's standards and they were all profitable.

Nice graphics by cost cutting on things not considered priorities by Nintendo.
Priorities just shifted.

 

[Pineconn]

Last gen: 360, PS3, Wii
Next gen: Wii U, Ouya

Spoiler

lol

PS480 will be next gen, also. It's a simple concept to understand.

 

[RagnarokX]

Wii, current gen.
Wii U, next gen.
This is not debatable.

I dunno, man. It's perfectly reasonable; just like it's reasonable to argue that next year is this year.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Explain these rules please.

Didn't mean them in the literal sense. Just that Nintendo decided to go in a completely different approach then everyone esle by releasing and very under powered affordable console.

 

[Majmun]

"Port PS3/360 onto it." is what they're thinking.

I'm afraid the WiiU is going to get a lot of Ps360 ports, yeah.

Don't know what'll happen when developers start making games for Ps4/"720". I guess it depends on the difference in hardware power.

I'm afraid 3rd parties will go with Sony's and MS' machine if they're going to be way more powerful, leaving the WiiU with some low-key 3rd party exclusives here and there. Basically the same what happened with the Wii...

 

[nordique]

That's debatable.

It will be playing the same games as the PS3/360. It will not be playing Next Gen games. It's Nintendo's current gen system.

Even if the Wii U is arguably "on par" with the PS3 and 360 in some ways, this is just a pompous statement

"It will be playing the same games as PS3/360" is not a supportive statement to your argument in any way

Observe:

the Wii is a current gen system; Wii U is next gen. Its the first next gen home console. That point is not debatable in any intelligible way...regardless of Wii U's raw power

 

[Diablos54]

Master System released in 86. 85 was the SG-1000 Mk3.

In Japan they were released ONE YEAR apart.

Ah yes. Well, you're right there. But still, it was first released in 86 then. That's still 2 years before the Genesis. The MS was a competitor to the NES, while the Genesis was the same to the SNES. They're different generations of systems.

 

[antonz]

why are we even discussing DX10/11 in a nintendo system? openGL is quite a diffrent (faster and better beast then DirectX)

Its mentioned because its an easy way to get the idea of specifications across. You will have far less people going huh if you mention the DX equivalency than if you say oh yeah its OpenGL x.x

 

[KageMaru]

why are we even discussing DX10/11 in a nintendo system? openGL is quite a diffrent (faster and better beast then DirectX)

When people refer to a version of DX when discussing a GPU, they are talking about the hardware architecture/compatibility, not the API it runs on.

Also, unless something has changed recently, OpenGL is behind DX.

Edit: beaten =P

 

[Metalmurphy]

Even if the Wii U is arguably "on par" with the PS3 and 360 in some ways, this is just a pompous statement

"It will be playing the same games as PS3/360" is not a supportive statement to your argument in any way

Observe:


the Wii is a current gen system; Wii U is next gen. Its the first next gen home console. That point is not debatable in any intelligible way...regardless of Wii U's raw power

Right... Now compare how those games look (the HD resolution alone is a HUGE difference), and then compare Batman, or Assassins Creed, etc...

That's what I mean by "same games".

Ah yes. Well, you're right there. But still, it was first released in 86 then. That's still 2 years before the Genesis. The MS was a competitor to the NES, while the Genesis was the same to the SNES. They're different generations of systems.

So you agree that it's not about release dates. At least we have that sorted out.

 

[2MF]

I dunno, man. It's perfectly reasonable; just like it's reasonable to argue that next year is this year.

But next year has crappy graphics since PS4 and 720 are only launching at the end of the year. So next year is current year.

 

[Osiris]

I don't care whether Wii U is considered this gen, last gen, next gen or bloody nitro gen, as far as the specs go I have enough concern that 3rd party devs are going to drop it like a rock once the new PS & XBox are out, therefore it's not going to be a day 1, or even year 1 purchase for me, maybe in a few years if it proves it has excellent 3rd party support on a par with the new PS and Xbox.

Unless it shows stellar 3rd party support with lots of futures announcements in it's first year, then maybe I'll reconsider.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

There is no concrete rule of law about what's next-gen or not. Just because Wikipedia says that's the definition doesn't make it true. There are so many factors to consider when discussing it in the video game industry. I consider it a current-gen or "bridge-gen" system and from what we've read many devs also think this. It's not a big deal, it's just a label. People are going to buy Wii U for the exclusives so what does it matter what it's labeled as. It sounds like people are getting personally offended by others who consider it a current/bridge-gen system, which is creepy. It's just a label, whatever.

 

[Escape Goat]

Why are we so hung up on the terminology of what is next gen again?

 

[BlackJace]

Also, the jump from SD to HD is the obvious reason for the same games looking way better.

Next gen we're not going from HD to.. I don't know.. Alien Definition.

 

[Diablos54]

So you agree that it's not about release dates. At least we have that sorted out.

Well no... The MS was released before the Genesis. 2 Years before in fact. SEGA released the Genesis before the SNES to try and take the NES's audience (I would assume, who know's what SEGA ever thinks?) before the SNES came out.

3rd Gen:

NES: 1983.
SMS: 1986.

4th Gen:

Genesis: 1988.
SNES: 1990.

 

[TreasureHunterG]

Nice graphics by cost cutting on things not considered priorities by Nintendo.
Priorities just shifted.

IMO, considering how much Nintendo profits, they can manage to do a better hardware and still manage to profit. Even if they have a initial loss (even if it's minimal), something they can easily recover in the next years, considering how much money they have in stock, in exchange, they can do a machine able to compete with a PS4/Next Xbox in a long range strategy without the need to get a Wii U-Next in 202X in order to keep relevant because Wii U can no longer do what PS4/Next Xbox can do, like what happend with Wii and PS3/360.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Why are we so hung up on the terminology of what is next gen again?

Good question.

 

[antonz]

IMO, considering how much Nintendo profits, they can manage to do a better hardware and still manage to profit. Even if they have a initial loss (even if it's minimal), something they can easily recover in the next years, considering how much money they have in stock, in exchange, they can do a machine able to compete with a PS4/Next Xbox in a long range strategy without the need to get a Wii U-Next in 202X in order to keep relevant because Wii U can no longer do what PS4/Next Xbox can do, like what happend with Wii and PS3/360.

The PS3/360 are still on the market because they were blackholes that sucked their creators wallets dry not because they are still worth having out. The Wii lived a normal console generation that sadly got marred with a sad ending due to studios preferring to ignore the system.

 

[2MF]

Good question.

Because some people keep trying to rewrite accepted definitions for the sake of dismissing products they don't like.

 

[nordique]

Right... Now compare how those games look (the HD resolution alone is a HUGE difference), and then compare Batman, or Assassins Creed, etc...

That's what I mean by "same games".

No, what you were arguing is Wii U is not next gen.

It IS next gen.


And I have played those games on the 360; sure they had a higher resolution but the general game was the exact same graphically, geometry, textures, everything

For example, what if next year on Durango and PS4, FIFA 14 is the exact same game in 1080p? Is that enough to say they are next gen?

 

[Metalmurphy]

And I have played those games on the 360; sure they had a higher resolution but the general game was the exact same graphically, geometry, textures, everything

For example, what if next year on Durango and PS4, FIFA 14 is the exact same game in 1080p? Is that enough to say they are next gen?

While its true that there were some really cheap ports, you are mostly wrong. Most of them were not exactly the same, they were much better. (examples: http://www.gamespot.com/features/xbox-vs-xbox-360-do-you-really-need-hd-6140621/ , and the Xbox was the most powerful console of the previous gen...)

And even the ones that were it was not because of the console, but publishers wanting to make easy money.

 

[Escape Goat]

Because some people keep trying to rewrite accepted definitions for the sake of dismissing products they don't like.

 

[R-User!]

That's crazy if they are really using those things. I guess the Wii U is three Wiis taped together?

Hey, at least they taped 3 things together this time! *rimshot*

 

[TreasureHunterG]

The PS3/360 are still on the market because they were blackholes that sucked their creators wallets dry not because they are still worth having out. The Wii lived a normal console generation that sadly got marred with a sad ending due to studios preferring to ignore the system.

I agree PS3/360 were overpowered and overcostly when they came out, but still, Wii's specs could have been better. No shades and no high definition support didn't help it, even for the time's standard.