DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
you guys have enough bacon and syrup for everyone.
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University Is Uneasy as Court Ruling Allows Guns on Campus
- Thread starter Manos: The Hans of Fate
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you guys have enough bacon and syrup for everyone.
You cannot buy automatic weapons at your gun store.
This is the problem with gun control advocates, they know little about gun laws and even less about guns.
I said buy a semi automatic at the gun store and a conversion kit at a gun show. Don't try to use a "gotcha" to discredit the larger point I'm trying to make.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
No you can't and also I doubt you even have any of the machining skill to convert a weapon....or equipment.I said buy a semi automatic at the gun store and a conversion kit at a gun show. Don't try to use a "gotcha" to discredit the larger point I'm trying to make.
Manos, you of all people should know your own post is incredibly disingenuous.
The point is the firing of a weapon on a potentially moving target in a life or death scenario. It's idiotic to think going to range magically gives anyone crazed-gunman-stopping abilities, especially on someone who has never been trained to handle such a situation. As little practice as police officers get, they're still better equipped than the average college kid.
No, but it allows you become more familiar with your weapon and regular practice will certainly improve your aim.
It may not be easy to hit a moving target, but I would much rather be armed in a scenario where I couldn't escape from a gunman instead of just sitting back and let him kill me. It's like the argument about crossfire -- "Someone might get hit by your gun!" Oh, then it must be much better to just let the gunman kill everyone.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
I dunno... having 6 times more the population perhaps? Here in Illinois we have the most strict gun control laws yet Chicago is number 1 once again in the nation in gun related crimes. If someone is unstable enough to harm others, they will do it whether it be by gun or in the case of China, random knife stabbings.
I'm pretty sure he meant rate.
Also relevant:
Population
Toronto 2,615,060 (2011 census)
Chicago: 2,695,598 (2010 census used by Chicago police for statistics)
Number of homicides in 2012 as of Monday (Sept. 17):
Toronto: 36
Chicago: 384
Number of shooting homicides in 2012 as of Monday (Sept. 17):
Toronto: 24
Chicago: 330
Number of shootings reported in 2012 as of Monday (Sept. 17):
Toronto: 174
Chicago: 1,821
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...-chicago-is-in-the-grip-of-a-gun-crime-crisis
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
I'm pretty sure he meant rate.
Also relevant:
Population
Toronto 2,615,060 (2011 census)
Chicago: 2,695,598 (2010 census used by Chicago police for statistics)
Number of homicides in 2012 as of Monday:
Toronto: 36
Chicago: 384
Number of shooting homicides in 2012 as of Monday:
Toronto: 24
Chicago: 330
Number of shootings reported in 2012 as of Monday:
Toronto: 174
Chicago: 1,821
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...-chicago-is-in-the-grip-of-a-gun-crime-crisis
Man Rahm Emmanuel is an awful Mayor.
EatinOlives
Member
No, but it allows you become more familiar with your weapon and regular practice will certainly improve your aim.
It may not be easy to hit a moving target, but I would much rather be armed in a scenario where I couldn't escape from a gunman instead of just sitting back and let him kill me. It's like the argument about crossfire -- "Someone might get hit by your gun!" Oh, then it must be much better to just let the gunman kill everyone.
You're cherrypicking fantasies. You're neglecting the very real possibility that confusion and a larger presence of firearms in that situation would make the situation worse than if nobody else had one. You're only considering the narrow possibility of "taking your chances" against all other ones.
And at any rate, you're neglecting to mention every other day where there ISN'T a gunman on campus. Carrying a firearm at all times because of the extremely minuscule possibility that exactly the room you're in will be scene of a shootout is the very definition of paranoia. "What would you choose, gunman and you have a gun, or gunman and you have no gun?" is a dishonest argument because it ignores the context of nearly everything else.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Except you ignore the fact that a person could carry because they had an abusive ex, go to school in a bad area, just carry in general, and don't see why a college campus is so special compared to everywhere else they safely carry each day.You're cherrypicking fantasies. You're neglecting the very real possibility that confusion and a larger presence of firearms in that situation would make the situation worse than if nobody else had one. You're only considering the narrow possibility of "taking your chances" against all other ones.
And at any rate, you're neglecting to mention every other day where there ISN'T a gunman on campus. Carrying a firearm at all times because of the extremely minuscule possibility that exactly the room you're in will be scene of a shootout is the very definition of paranoid. "What would you choose, gunman and you have a gun, or gunman and you have no gun?" is a dishonest argument because it ignores the context that we're speaking in.
PeteZaTheHutt
Member
I have no clue either. I live in Canada and I have no clue how to go about getting a gun here. And we like it that way. I can walk around downtown Toronto without fear of anything happening. I don't even have to think about it; It doesn't even cross my mind. But when we go to Buffalo it's a totally different story...You shouldn't even have to point these things out. Unforutnately gun fanatics simply point at chicago and say "DUR HUR GUN CONTROL MAKES THINGS DANGEROUS!!!!!"
Here is a fact: I can walk about a mile away to a gun shop and buy full riot gear, automatic weapons (or semi-automatics that can be easily converted into automatics with a kit at one of the myriad of gun shows), right now. At this moment.
Let me tell you, I've never shot a gun in my life. I've never done anything shady. I don't have any "underground" connections, nor would I know where to begin looking for anything shady/illegal. Despite my ignorance, society makes it so that I could, if I wanted, copy the aurora shooter, like, tonight. Society says "Hey, it's okay to make all of these things accessible to the masses." And so any dumbass can commit mass murder because the resources are not only easily accessible, but openly flaunted.
That is fucked up. That is VERY fucked up. Why do people like manos not understand this? I have no clue
Do you think that people should be able to bring guns into the stadium at an NFL game then?People also have abusive exs or go to school in a shit area. Why take it off just because you go in a classroom or a college campus if you carry everywhere else?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Are we asking about an Oakland game?Do you think that people should be able to bring guns into the stadium at an NFL game then?
Banjo Tango
Member
You don't think that gun control advocates (regardless of their in-depth knowledge of guns and US gun laws) can't simply look at countries that have a long history of much stricter gun control and legitimately see something they like?This is the problem with gun control advocates, they know little about gun laws and even less about guns. The only thing fucked up is the lack of knowledge by those who favor "gun control".
EatinOlives
Member
Except you ignore the fact that a person could carry because they had an abusive ex, go to school in a bad area, just carry in general, and don't see why a college campus is so special compared to everywhere else they safely carry each day.
Again, ignoring contexts for the convenience of your argument. By your logic, if we take all context away we can just as easily justify carrying a handgun inside an elementary school.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
NoYou don't think that gun control advocates (regardless of their in-depth knowledge of guns and US gun laws) can't simply look at countries that have a long history of much stricter gun control and legitimately see something they like?
A teacher who had a violent ex who she had a restraining order wanted too. Also in an elementary school the only people legally allowed to carry would be over 21. It's not like people are allowed to walk in to elementary schools and trespass anyway.Again, ignoring contexts for the convenience of your argument. By your logic, if we take all context away we can just as easily justify carrying a handgun inside an elementary school.
You don't think that gun control advocates (regardless of their in-depth knowledge of guns and US gun laws) can't simply look at countries that have a long history of much stricter gun control and see something they like?
Agreed. Once you leave America's shores (and S. America for that matter) guns become a rarity and gun violence even more so. Internatiinally, gun control has been very successful.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
At the expense of Personal freedom and the ability to protect oneself.Agreed. Once you leave America's shores (and S. America for that matter) guns become a rarity and gun violence even more so. Internatiinally, gun control has been very successful.
EatinOlives
Member
A teacher who had a violent ex who she had a restraining order wanted too. Also in an elementary school the only people legally allowed to carry would be over 21. It's not like people are allowed to walk in to elementary schools and trespass anyway.
You advocate all adults on campus, at all times, even parents, carrying into an elementary school, then? And the odd visitor here and there?
A college campus isn't the place to satisfy your gun-touting "freedom to protect yourself". Keep that for the strip malls or wherever else you frequent.
PeteZaTheHutt
Member
Holy crap. That's pretty shocking. I wonder what Manos has to say about these stats...I'm pretty sure he meant rate.
Also relevant:
Population
Toronto 2,615,060 (2011 census)
Chicago: 2,695,598 (2010 census used by Chicago police for statistics)
Number of homicides in 2012 as of Monday (Sept. 17):
Toronto: 36
Chicago: 384
Number of shooting homicides in 2012 as of Monday (Sept. 17):
Toronto: 24
Chicago: 330
Number of shootings reported in 2012 as of Monday (Sept. 17):
Toronto: 174
Chicago: 1,821
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...-chicago-is-in-the-grip-of-a-gun-crime-crisis
Predictable. No wonder Manos isn't afraid of guns. This guy can dodge bullets...Man Rahm Emmanuel is an awful Mayor.
It's sad that people apparently feel so unsafe in America that they feel they need guns to protect themselves. I can't imagine living under such constant terror, to be so fearful every time you step outside that you need a firearm. It's a shame the US government is apparently failing at its core task of guaranteeing the safety of its citizens, but I suppose when that's the case, you need to take matters into your own hands.
The only people who feel that way are people like Manos.
I've never even held a gun in my life. I feel safe almost all the time. When I don't, the last thing that pops into my head is, "Boy, wish I had a deadly weapon to escalate this situation further!"
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
You'd let the NYPD in.You advocate all adults on campus, at all times, even parents, carrying into an elementary school, then? And the odd visitor here and there?
So a women doesn't have the freedom to protect herself from rape? That's really messed upA college campus isn't the place to satisfy your gun-touting "freedom to protect yourself". Keep that for the strip malls or wherever else you frequent.
At the expense of Personal freedom and the ability to protect oneself.
No one other than you in this thread really feel that way.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
As I said in the other thread hand waving isn't a valid response. Then again I can understand your frustration since gun control is dead in the United States and not coming back.No one other than you in this thread really feel that way.
PeteZaTheHutt
Member
Although it goes against my better judgment, I'll bite. Okay, sure, let's say it's an Oakland game...Are we asking about an Oakland game?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Dear god yes.Although it goes against my better judgment, I'll bite. Okay, sure, let's say it's an Oakland game...
EatinOlives
Member
You'd let the NYPD in.
So is that a yes?
IHaveCandy
Banned
It's insane to me that any normal person would advocate arming citizens for fear of crazy gunmen. And I don't mean that those people are insane, I mean the fact that US society is apparently so fucked up and steeped in guns and violence that anyone would even have a reason to come up with such an argument.
Crazy gunmen bring guns to school regardless if they are allowed or not. What is the danger of non-crazy people carrying guns? People make it sound as if you can only kill somebody with a gun, when that isn't the case. Anybody who wants to kill people can kill them regardless of the law.. Might as well allow people to defend themselves.
As I said in the other thread hand waving isn't a valid response.
Manos vs ManosMan Rahm Emmanuel is an awful Mayor.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
What Rahm Emmanuel is bad for lots of reasons not confined to be the Mayor of Murder City.Manos vs Manos
Still hand waving.What Rahm Emmanuel is bad for lots of reasons not confined to be the Mayor of Murder City.
Your cognitive dissonance is bleeding out of your posts.
Ho ho.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Man Rahm Emmanuel is an awful Mayor.
You can't be Mayor of Chicago if you won't suck at it. It's been in the city bylaws for a few decades now. But I have no clue how much of this can be laid at his feet.
As I said in the other thread hand waving isn't a valid response. Then again I can understand your frustration since gun control is dead in the United States and not coming back.
There are plenty of political movements that went asleep for long periods of time before coming back. After all we still are in a very conservative period in American history. If the subject was really dead, why are we discussing this?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Hey I got a tag sweet!
Asleep is being generous, it's dead and buried. Its being discussed because we live in a free country we anything no matter how ludicrous can be discussed.There are plenty of political movements that went asleep for long periods of time before coming back. After all we still are in a very conservative period in American history. If the subject was really dead, why are we discussing this?
PeteZaTheHutt
Member
At the expense of personal freedom? Wrong. Ability to protect oneself? "Number of shooting homicides in 2012 as of Monday: Toronto: 24, Chicago: 330." Who's more protected now?At the expense of Personal freedom and the ability to protect oneself.
Countdown to smarmy, calculated dodge in 3... 2... 1...
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Well gun control laws in Chicago make it hard to protect oneself.At the expense of personal freedom? Wrong. Ability to protect oneself? "Number of shooting homicides in 2012 as of Monday: Toronto: 24, Chicago: 330." Who's more protected now?
Countdown to smarmy, calculated dodge in 3... 2... 1...
Somalia had it right.Asleep is being generous, it's dead and buried. Its being discussed because we live in a free country we anything no matter how ludicrous can be discussed.
Hey I got a tag sweet!
Asleep is being generous, it's dead and buried. Its being discussed because we live in a free country we anything no matter how ludicrous can be discussed.
The civil rights movement completely disappeared from about 1880 to the mid 1940s. Just as a example from the top of my head. So these things come and go in cycles.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
No it didn't, the founding of the NAACP isn't what I would call disappearing. Gun control is dead, buried, and Dr. Frankenstein isn't bringing it back.The civil rights movement completely disappeared from about 1880 to the mid 1940s. Just as a example from the top of my head. So these things come and go in cycles.
If that's what the Cult of Eternal Firearms tells you.No it didn't, the founding of the NAACP isn't what I would call disappearing. Gun control is dead, buried, and Dr. Frankenstein isn't bringing it back.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
It's what the finances of The Brady Bunch tells meIf that's what the Cult of Eternal Firearms tells you.
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/topcontributor.phtml?u=402&y=0
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00113449
Vs the NRA
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00053553
No you can't and also I doubt you even have any of the machining skill to convert a weapon....or equipment.
Ignoring the inaccuracy and rudeness of your ad hominem attacks, there are dozens of models of rifles that can be trivially modified into fully automatic weapons by removing a simple trigger sear, which I'm sure you are well aware of.
You don't need to own a machine shop or be versed in any power tools in order to convert many semi-automatics to be fully automatic..
Are you just assuming you're dealing with ignorance and making poor arguments out of laziness?
It's what the finances of The Brady Bunch tells me
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/topcontributor.phtml?u=402&y=0
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00113449
Vs the NRA
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00053553
And?
Whats that got to do with anything?
You advocate all adults on campus, at all times, even parents, carrying into an elementary school, then? And the odd visitor here and there?
A college campus isn't the place to satisfy your gun-touting "freedom to protect yourself". Keep that for the strip malls or wherever else you frequent.
You better believe I do. If I intend to shoot up a kindergarten class, no gun control law is going to stop me. I'll reiterate my earlier point: Gun-free zones are especially susceptible to mass murder. Banning someone from carrying a gun on a campus is not going to stop a murderer.
In the United States, there will always be a very high supply of illicit firearms. No amount of gun control will prevent violent criminals from obtaining and using guns in an area where they are banned.
No it didn't, the founding of the NAACP isn't what I would call disappearing. Gun control is dead, buried, and Dr. Frankenstein isn't bringing it back.
It's what the finances of The Brady Bunch tells me
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/topcontributor.phtml?u=402&y=0
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00113449
Vs the NRA
http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00053553
How do quantify the existence of the brady campaign now and bring up the NAACP as proof that the civil rights movememt wasn't dead back in the day? I'm pretty sure that if you compared the level of funding of the KKK it dwarfed the NAACP back then.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Ignoring the inaccuracy and rudeness of your ad hominem attacks, there are dozens of models of rifles that can be trivially modified into fully automatic weapons by removing a simple trigger sear, which I'm sure you are well aware of.
You don't need to own a machine shop or be versed in any power tools in order to convert many semi-automatics to be fully automatic..
Are you just assuming you're dealing with ignorance and making poor arguments out of laziness?
Except guns that can be easily converted are banned by the ATF. Thats why you closed bolt uzis now. Thats why AKs lack a third hole in the receiver...do you wanna keep trying? My original statement is correct.
PeteZaTheHutt
Member
First of all, we've got gun control laws in Toronto too and it seems that people are WAY more protected there. So then what's the difference between Chicago and Toronto that would account for the large disparity in gun-related homicides? We know it's not gun control laws...Well gun control laws in Chicago make it hard to protect oneself.
Second, as a whole, there are no gun control laws in America, yet gun-related crimes are 6 times higher than in Canada where there are gun control laws. But wait... you said that gun control laws make it hard to protect oneself, thus accounting for the increased crimes in Chicago. Yet this trend doesn't extrapolate to Canada? Why 6 times higher than Canada?
Third, can you give the specifics of these Chicago gun control laws and how they're enforced? I'm sure that many people in this thread would like to see just what kind of teeth these laws have.
PeteZaTheHutt
Member
That won't stop anyone who wants a banned gun from obtaining one though. Gun control doesn't work, haven't you heard?Except guns that can be easily converted are banned by the ATF. Thats why you closed bolt uzis now. Thats why AKs lack a third hole in the receiver...do you wanna keep trying? My original statement is correct.
I'm pretty sure he meant rate.
Also relevant:
Population
Toronto 2,615,060 (2011 census)
Chicago: 2,695,598 (2010 census used by Chicago police for statistics)
Number of homicides in 2012 as of Monday (Sept. 17):
Toronto: 36
Chicago: 384
Number of shooting homicides in 2012 as of Monday (Sept. 17):
Toronto: 24
Chicago: 330
Number of shootings reported in 2012 as of Monday (Sept. 17):
Toronto: 174
Chicago: 1,821
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/art...-chicago-is-in-the-grip-of-a-gun-crime-crisis
Well, all that says to me is Toronto ain't bout dat life. You need more goons in the trap.
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
Now, can teachers do this also? Because if I had a prof packing a piece, that'd be pretty sweet.
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