Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Not when I have facts on my side like now.
University Is Uneasy as Court Ruling Allows Guns on Campus
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Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Let us know how it goes for you.
he's not the only one who wants a result.
PeteZaTheHutt
Member
Fixed.
You were... beaming with pride when you posted these stats, weren't you. Wow. I mean... how do you get through to somebody who posts this as a means to support their argument? Was I supposed to print this out and take it with me whenever I visit the U.S. so that I can reassuringly look at these numbers whenever I'm feeling unsafe?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
PeteZaTheHutt
Member
I did answer it. Quite a while ago. I'll repeat my answer again, right now, because you seem to be unaware of the purpose of a back button on browsers. Here's my answer: "I honestly don't know". Seriously, utilize the back button on your browser. That was my answer that I've apparently been afraid to give ever since I gave it quite a while ago. Whew. It feels good to get that off my chest. I've been unable to function in any capacity since you originally asked that question, what with me being paralyzed with fear and all.
[I typed this next part (in italics) after looking over your stats again, along with looking over other stats] I think I've changed my mind. I'm not going to be so naive as to say that this is definitely the answer, but I now have a suspicion as to what that answer might be. Sure, the statistics show no correlation between homicide rates and gun control when you compare the UK to the rest of Europe. So then why are the homicide rates in the U.S. not the same? Why is it 20X higher? One glaring statistic that I noticed was simply the number of guns. Who's at the top of the list in the entire world for number of guns per capita? You guessed it. Below the U.S. is Serbia and Yemen followed by Switzerland in 4th place. But even though they're 4th place, Switzerland has roughly HALF the number of guns than the U.S. has. In other words, America has LOTS of guns. And many of the European countries mentioned in your stats have roughly one third the number of guns compared to the States. I don't know. That's got to at least make you think though, doesn't it?
Let's be deadly serious for a second here, Manos. You mentioned earlier that you have an infant daughter. Now be honest here. Let's say that you had to choose one of two countries for your daughter to grow up in. Strictly from a safety perspective, would you choose the country that has X murder rate, or would you choose the country that has 20X murder rate?
Meh. Whatever helps you sleep at night, Manos. Well... that and a gun under your pillow...
Again, let's be serious here. Believe it or not, I agree with you in regards to gun-free zones. The way that the U.S. utilizes them, they don't work. There's nothing to stop people from obtaining guns outside of these zones and then bringing them in. The only way that the gun-free zone idea would work is if this zone was the entire country. But realistically, I understand that this will not happen because of people like yourself.
Then why do you need guns at all? You just said yourself that hands are far more deadly than a rifle or a shotgun.
Every super gun advocate I've met has the same mentality: There's always a massive hoard of evil gun grabbers ready to grab their guns. And they are a tiny minority defending their rights, and if only the rest of us would see the light, the world would be a million times better. Pretty much the opposite is true. Basically, they are massive hoard of gun nuts demanding ridiculous gun privileges everywhere they go, no matter how unwarranted it is. I think it is the same as the fundamentalist movement in this country, except that there isn't an atheism/secular movement shutting them down.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
What? What numbers are you getting to get 20x the murder rate because I feel like you're misusing numbers to make your point.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
That you can't admit gun control has no effect on the UKs murder numbers.
The country with full freedom of speech and no censorship of the arts.
And not criminals who would never observe the zone wherever it is?
Tiger style isn't as good as I want it to be.
That's because much like restricts on gay marriage, abortion, and other fundamental human rights, "gun control" is dying and attempts to deprive people of these rights are falling day by day and there is nothing "gun control" advocates can do.
You say this every time. It doesn't change your position one bit.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Just want to make sure you don't forget the reality of the situation.
Fury Sense
Member
If you can't ban the guns from your campus, ban the students who don't sign your (new) terms of service that include gun limitations.
It also makes your position the same as a fundamentalist Christian or Muslim: Very popular among certain groups, still completely crazy and wrong.
I suspect that once the baby boomers start to die off, your opinion will probably become a minority as well. Certainly, neither gen Y or the upcoming gen Z will carry your opinion all that much.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
No that's "gun control" advocates, they are the same as thosewho wants to shove creationism down Americas throat, force a woman to get a coat hanger abortion, and want gays to be arrested for having sex. We're on the side of freedom and equality for all Americans..."gun control" advocates are not.
You are going to be in for a very rude surprise. Maybe then it will hit you how dead "gun control" is.
[
Im with ya manos... except..
I vote we remove all gun laws, so everyone can get them readily.
Having a gun locker(s) is what is needed at the school, if the fear is leaving work at late hours.
There is no reason to have weapons in a classroom. The school stands to lose bigtime when drunk college kids mix with concealed weapons. I sure as hell wouldn't go to a school where students, college kids(lol), have weapons on them. Didn't read the details, but I'm hoping its more of a gun locker situation, and not sitting next to some forever alone gaf member with a hand cannon in his pocket. Responsibility & College don't really go hand in hand.
They should have to register, so that people can opt out of being in classes with them if they feel unsafe.
So then all the gun owners can sit in a room and not do anything when someone starts shooting at them from a distance... ;-)
Please don't make shit up. Liberals don't support those positions at all, but they do support gun control.
You lack any real perspective on this issue. It's not been very successful because we currently are in a very conservative period in America history, where something like 40% of Americans consider themselves conservative and only 20% liberal. When that changes, gun control politics will change with it. It won't happen immediately, but it will be inevitable.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Nothing is being made up "gun control" advocates are no better than the Pro Life movement in harm to women.
You mean with the advancement of gay marriage? The election of a biracial president? Oh yeah real conservative. lol Its dead for the same reason abortion is legal and gay marriage is advancing more and more...because freedom and the fundamentals right of a human being cannot be surpressed.
You know it's sad when I can't even get upset over this. I'm not even surprised.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Like I said, completely disingenuous. I'm not even bothering anymore. Let him live in his own little fantasy world.
Every single criminal is a law-abiding citizen with a clean record at the point they commit their first criminal act.
Every Single One.
So screw your "us vs them" mentality when it comes to criminal behavior.
Dude Abides
Banned
He's also incorrect about restrictions on abortion. As an empirical matter they have been increasing, not decreasing. Not that facts really matter when he's riding one of his ideological hobbyhorses.
SirButterstick
Banned
God damn what is it with this guy and his hard-on for gunzz?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
It isn't disingenuous in the least.
Not involving a firearm they aren't, many criminals and other people are already prohibited from owning or using a firearm, so much like your machine gun comments you are wrong.
QUOTE=HyperionX;42518330]Please don't make shit up. Liberals don't support those positions at all, but they do support gun control[/quote]
Nothing is being made up "gun control" advocates are no better than the Pro Life movement in harm to women.
You mean with the advancement of gay marriage? The election of a biracial president? Oh yeah real conservative. lol Its dead for the same reason abortion is legal and gay marriage is advancing more and more...because freedom and the fundamentals right of a human being cannot be surpressed.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
No, they can't. A professor tried to cancel them and was told he couldn't.
http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-news/ci_21366376/cu-boulder-profs-cant-cancel-classes-over-gun
He's trolling... or completely crazy. I can't tell which.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
I'm correct, that's all.
That's terrible.
PeteZaTheHutt
Member
Gundamentalist.
KamikazeTY
Banned
What I dont understand in regards to this whole gun debate is why people keep saying we should restrict guns. It's not possible, we already have so many guns in circulation that it isn't easily reversed. People willing to go on murdering sprees probably aren't going to care if their guns are legal.
It is also true that the majority of these people obtain their firearms from a second hand source, from someone who IS permitted to obtain a gun.
You want to simply compartmentalize people into "Good gun users" and "bad gun users," as though they never co-mingle, as though they don't have access to the same firearm resources (stores, ranges, shows, etc), as though these topics are not due to societal factors, but by much smaller sub-communities.
I don't buy that. How many times do you hear about people commiting gun crimes because they were able to get a gun as a result of an oversight in licensing (ie: they were a convicted felon, but the background check missed it), as opposed to them obtaining a gun from someone they knew?
The problem is not the "bad guys" that act maliciously, but the fact that everyone else acts irresponsibly.
People willing to go on murdering sprees shouldn't be able to do it conveniently. Self-restraint shouldn't be the only safeguard society has in place.
Messypandas
Member
amnesties, confiscation. How many guns do you think can be whittled out of circulation in 10 years? UK gun amnesties were a surprising success
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
How will the 270 million privately owned firearms in the US be confiscated, heck how will even 1/3 of that be done?
I've very interested how you think that can be done? Will the police be going door to door? Pray tell.
By breaking the law and committing a crime, often theft and illegal means.
They don't. I don't think you understand how a background check is done.
Rare if ever, the system is very effective and it's why prohibited individuals commit crimes to get guns. For everyone 100 gun buyers who had a NIC check done only 1.14 were denied in the end. Meaning that criminals aren't able to get them.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/2011-operations-report/operations-report-2011
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics
Gun control doesn't prevent murdering sprees.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Well since you've never bought or owned a gun, and as you've admitted, never even fired one, it's not surprising you lack knowledge and experience of gun laws and purchasing requirements.
I've gone through much more scrutiny than gun laws require
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
But you've never actually gone through one for a firearm purchase?
I have never gone through a criminal background check/ mental health screening for purposes of purchasing a firearm, as I have no need, desire, or use for a gun, nor have I ever, not even when my house was targeted 2 dozen times for vandalism over the course of a few months while I was in high school.
I have gone through a more extensive vetting process that includes everything in the above as part of it, though, for other purposes.
my favorite part is that somehow gun ownership has been elevated to the upper echelon's of "fundamental human rights."
Shit by nature or by God, whatever you deem the laws of men must be self-evidenced, how is "owning a sub machine gun" anywhere near the freedom to choose to have an abortion or the freedom to marry whom you want?
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Because it protects you and your abiliry to excerise those rights.
i'm sorry but anyone that is so paranoid and consumed by self-delusion that they genuinely believe that they need to carry a rocket launcher to protect their FREEDOMZ is probably unlikely to be psychologically sound enough to even own a gun.
in any event, I'm all for the right to own guns, the problem is the lack of any thought related to the actual control of said guns. The gun control laws in this country are outrageous by any rational standard. That is where your problem lies.
in any event, I'm all for the right to own guns, the problem is the lack of any thought related to the actual control of said guns. The gun control laws in this country are outrageous by any rational standard. That is where your problem lies.
only a precog would know this.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
Yeah, I don't get it. I go to a school in one of the 'most dangerous' cities in the country, and I have never felt the need to have any kind of protection in the form of a weapon...
i think the primary danger on a campus is drunk frat boys seeking drunk post-high school girls tipping over. all this occurring at some house where way to much alcohol is being served and a fight is likely to occur at around 1:30 am. so hopefully none of those drunk idiots is planning on holding a fire arm.
A bit off topic but I find your posts a little strange.
IIRC You have an uber-extremist and crazy view on drugs in my view where you don't feel goverment should prohibit anyone from consuming any substances but here you take a much different position. Why you care about the freedom to consume drugs in comparison to the freedom to own guns? Guns don't have to kill people other than used in self defense when properly used and drugs, well in (someone's incorect) theory can be used in moderation. Now in practice widespread use of harmful substances is destructive and I believe no gun control is utterly irresponsible too as people will gain access to this dangerous weapon and many misuse it. So in reality neither are responsibly used with very little to none control or at the very least your position should had been one of determining first of the possible harm done by full legalization and not going by "nobody tells me what to put inside my body" like nobody tells you whether to own or not own a certain device.
Now I can understand someone who is both pro drug control and gun control but wants less drug control and more gun control but more than enough of either to be on the pro control camp. Wanting somewhat more of one of the two and less of the other is not too crazy but your views come off as more baffling due to what an extreme view you take on one issue but now you are saying about how owning a sub machine gun gun is not a fundamental human right. I agree. Nor is having access to meth and that not being illegal. How to punish crimes of owning and consuming substances might be another issue.
Maybe I misunderstood you, anyway I am curious about your views.
Manos: The Hans of Fate
Banned
Ironically I could never sell him a gun due to his numerous statements on his use of drugs (his inventory post being one example) which would make him a prohibted person.
I find a personal distinction in the rights of an individual over their own body, and the rights of a individual to infringe on the rights of others in the pursuit of their own liberty.
But I think the premise of your statement is wrong anyway because in essence my view of gun ownership and drug use is almost precisely the same.
I believe people should be allowed to use and own guns. I believe we simply need far more severe restrictions, with the heaviest restrictions being to automatic rifles and heavier powered weaponry of that sort. Similarly, I believe people should be allowed to use and own drugs. I believe simply we need harsh penalties for those who infringe on the rights of others in the pursuit of their vices, such as when one drives whilst intoxicated or when one robs to raise funds. Like my views on the drug war, my view on gun control are informed by the statistical and fact-based analysis by noted experts who have studied the subject for years.
It's all about common sense.
SIMILARLY, I take offense at the "uber-extremist and crazy" commentary. I realize that's your opinion, but my take on what needs to happen in the drug war is widely supported by experts in the field AND widely supported by statistical analysis of countries which have done precisely what I have said. That goes for gun control as well. Since the stats and proofs on these subjects have uniformly supported my theories on them, and they have never supported the alternative view, I think this is dangerously irrational starting grounds for your commentary.
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