Rumor: Wii U final specs

Ah the religious wars. It's like specialguy and Gemüsepizza have shown up at a brights meeting and keep insisting that they need to be saved by jesus.

I know that you want to save the heatens, but they don't want to be saved.

You are free to bring up arguments which counter my arguments. Nothing religious here.

But to me that's a different type of competition. I'm referring to what Wii U achieves or doesn't achieve with its hardware. Like for example I've stated many o' times what I think the GPU's power would be, but if it's wrong it's wrong. I don't win anything for being right and don't lose anything for being wrong. I just like discussing the tech and trying to figure out what it might look like. That's why I'm saying I don't understand why it has to be considered any kind of victory if Wii U does reach certain levels. Instead just enjoy that it can do this or has that if that's the case.

I just feel that some people here will be disappointed, they seem to have very high expectations of what the Wii U is capable of, and where it will stand compared to the PS4 and Xbox 720, but I just don't see it.

Considering Microsoft is the only one allowed to use DX we have no idea.

Oh come on, I have made clear what I mean when I am talking about a DX11 or DX10 gpu.

Do you mean you think the PS4 will have 2GB as well or you think the PS4 will have more?
I am quite sure the PS4 will have more, when it probably will be released at the end of 2013.

I'm curious how much powerful do you think the PS4/720 will be from the Wii U?

I don't know exactly how powerful they will be, but going by some of the recent rumors, they will be quite powerful. (DX11, 4+ GB RAM, 1.25-1.85 GFLOPS GPU, ~200W ...)
 
They can free up more space for games, they did it for the 3DS and they are doing it for Wii U, the 6GB rumor for the Xbox 720 is obviously not going to be all for the games, every rumor states the Xbox 720 more PC/mediabox console, so a lot of ram will be for those while some will be for the games.

Also what I mean about the GPGPU is a lot of people said "it's a Nintendo fanboy's dream for GPGPU happening" and than it did, so a little above 600GFLOPS shouldn't be asking for too much if it is it.

Durango won't have 6GB for games. Kinect 2.0 is looking to be a big thing for the next Xbox and it will likely have RAM dedicated to it.

I'm basing this off the newest Eurogamer article that pushed in the direction of 8GB with up to 2GB for OS on Durango. Leaving 6GB for games.

Previously my working assumption was 8GB, 3GB OS reserved for Durango, 5GB for games.

It wont have separate dedicated RAM for Kinetic, it'll work just like current Xbox in that regard.
 
Gemüsepizza;43110597 said:
I just feel that some people here will be disappointed, they seem to have very high expectations of what the Wii U is capable of, and where it will stand compared to the PS4 and Xbox 720, but I just don't see it.

That's fine, but it doesn't relate to what I was saying.
 
Gemüsepizza;43110597 said:
I just feel that some people here will be disappointed, they seem to have very high expectations of what the Wii U is capable of, and where it will stand compared to the PS4 and Xbox 720, but I just don't see it.

Yeah...
 
I think people are overestimating the leap that Sony and MS's next machines will actually "show". Graphics(most people's indicator of greatness) are peaking for the time being. The 720/PS4 won't even compete with my current PC..why should I or anyone else care if the Wii-U will be even close to them...?
 
Gemüsepizza;43109710 said:
How I see it, some here think there is a competition to prove that the Wii U will be competitive. But I still doubt very much that this will be the case. For the reasons I mentioned.

Some here also see it as a competition to prove that the Wii U will NOT be competitive.

Fun Fact: I have two cousins, whom I grew up playing games with since Atari. When I speak about next-gen game consoles on multiple occassions have mentioned: "I can't imagine the graphics getting much better then X/Y/Z triple AAA title on X360". That tells me, that Wii U will do just fine and that to a lot of people (even some "gamers") a decent upgrade from PS360+ (Wii U) to PSNextbox won't matter as much to them. I think to them, they were shocked/blown away to hear about a screen in the new Wii U controller that has graphics in the PS360 ballpark.

My cousins may not be on Gaf, but I can tell you they each buy 5+ games every year.

For the record: I'm a multi-console guy (Hence-DueceGamer) as well as some PC Gaming.
 
"I can't imagine the graphics getting much better then X/Y/Z triple AAA title on X360".

People once said this about PS2 and every past console as well.

I dunno when "diminishing returns" truly kicks in but I feel confident there's a next gen leap possible. There will come a point where X360 games look like crap to us, just like PS2 games do now.
 
"Completely irrelevant"? No. You are wrong.

Some here also see it as a competition to prove that the Wii U will NOT be competitive.

Fun Fact: I have two cousins, whom I grew up playing games with since Atari. When I speak about next-gen game consoles on multiple occassions have mentioned: "I can't imagine the graphics getting much better then X/Y/Z triple AAA title on X360". That tells me, that Wii U will do just fine and that to a lot of people (even some "gamers") a decent upgrade from PS360+ (Wii U) to PSNextbox won't matter as much to them. I think to them, they were shocked/blown away to hear about a screen in the new Wii U controller that has graphics in the PS360 ballpark.

My cousins may not be on Gaf, but I can tell you they each buy 5+ games every year.

For the record: I'm a multi-console guy (Hence-DueceGamer) as well as some PC Gaming.

I am sure this could change when they see the first PS4/Xbox720 games.
 
Well you shouldn't, because beyond PC/Xbox its completely irrelevant.

Most people still down read nintendo sdks which states it tends to be a modified opengl variant. No clue what they are on for wii but DX is only partial useful in featureset. After that I agree with this.
 
People once said this about PS2 and every past console as well.

I dunno when "diminishing returns" truly kicks in but I feel confident there's a next gen leap possible. There will come a point where X360 games look like crap to us, just like PS2 games do now.

It is kind of funny, when I think back to the beginning of this gen I thought we were approaching photorealism. Now I can see just how many more graphical improvements there are to make. I think we are likely still a couple of gens from diminishing returns really applying.
 
Maybe so, but for me and probably Azak as well, I'm saying I'd be fine with that if that's the case.

Yup, I'd be fine too. The 300 range would be depressing but 500+ would satisfy.

No matter what Nintendo does, it's not enough
Yup.

For a next gen console?
Yeah, it's is good for a next gen console. A console that also has a touch screen controller.

Poor Nintendo :(
Naa. They're rolling in their money, spending their days coming up with inventive stuff to entertain us. I don't think they give a shit and I don't think they feel "poor" cause some idiots think they have to have a 1TFLOP GPU.

Gemüsepizza;43111748 said:
"Completely irrelevant"? No. You are wrong.

I am sure this could change when they see the first PS4/Xbox720 games.
Only if they are graphics whores, and if they are graphics whores then they need to man up and buy a PC.

The Wii U will give us more than just a graphics bump next gen. If people really want to discount the GamePad as being worthless, then of course they are going to be disappointed. For me, and I say this with all seriousness and sincerity; if you gave me two consoles that were the same with one having a touch screen controller at 500GFLOPS and another with a regular controller at 1TFLOP I would pick the former in a heartbeat. What that extra screen gives me in options and gameplay features over the extra 500GFLOPS of the other console, is worth way way way way more than better graphics.


It is kind of funny, when I think back to the beginning of this gen I thought we were approaching photorealism. Now I can see just how many more graphical improvements there are to make. I think we are likely still a couple of gens from diminishing returns really applying.
Diminishing returns is an EXTREMELY subjective area. Some will think we hit it this gen, some will think we hit it last gen, and some will think we will never hit it. It's really not about graphical fidelity, even though people like to think it is. It is the point where people go "I don't care about the graphics anymore" and look at the other elements that are going on.
 
The Wii U will give us more than just a graphics bump next gen. If people really want to discount the GamePad as being worthless, then of course they are going to be disappointed. For me, and I say this with all seriousness and sincerity; if you gave me two consoles that were the same with one having a touch screen controller at 500GFLOPS and another with a regular controller at 1TFLOP I would pick the former in a heartbeat. What that extra screen gives me in options and gameplay features over the extra 500GFLOPS of the other console, is worth way way way way more than better graphics.

.

Same here.
 
What possibilities are there for the gamepad other than something you occasionally look down at for menu management?

Doesn't sound like it opens up any tangible game changing opportuties to even warrant the additional cost, especially at the expense of powerful hardware
 
So previously I was predicting that the Wii U would be 2-4x more powerful than current gen, and that Xbox8/PS4 would in turn be 2-4x more powerful than the Wii U.

It looks now like the Wii U is 2x more powerful than current gen, but the competitors is probably still 2-4x more powerful.
I'm leaning towards the HDHD-twins being 4x more powerful based on the "leaks" saying that they might have up to 8GB of RAM and such. (350GFLOPS versus 1,4TFLOPS as well fits that power multiplier).

It's a pretty big difference, but nowhere close to the gap between the Wii and the HD twins.
 
Gemüsepizza;43110597 said:
Oh come on, I have made clear what I mean when I am talking about a DX11 or DX10 gpu.
The Wii U may blur that way of thinking, though, because it apparently has some GPU features that is beyond dx10-equivalences. Arkam (who was confirmed by a mod) said something about this on neogaf a few weeks ago.

But to me that's a different type of competition. I'm referring to what Wii U achieves or doesn't achieve with its hardware. Like for example I've stated many o' times what I think the GPU's power would be, but if it's wrong it's wrong. I don't win anything for being right and don't lose anything for being wrong. I just like discussing the tech and trying to figure out what it might look like. That's why I'm saying I don't understand why it has to be considered any kind of victory if Wii U does reach certain levels. Instead just enjoy that it can do this or has that if that's the case.

That's a good stance to make. I glad that we will are getting a few more posts from you. ;)

A little too high.

Wow, that's a nice piece of info. That came out of nowhere.
 
People once said this about PS2 and every past console as well.

I dunno when "diminishing returns" truly kicks in but I feel confident there's a next gen leap possible. There will come a point where X360 games look like crap to us, just like PS2 games do now.

I personally dont rember anyone saying that graphics couldnt get any better than ps2, nor especially prior generations.

There is always room for improvent, and I dont fathom how people say we are curretly hitting a graphics platue now, especially when you can look at any big budget cgi or animated movie and see how much better they look than real time games.


Anyways, as for the general discussion, I am not sure people grasp the term diminishing returns in this context. It is not all about how much more we can improve graphics in general until we can no longer discern improvements.

it is more about, throwing more money and resources you put towards graphics does not always equate to increased returns in profit.

A game like the Splinter Cell, say they put 10 million more dollars towards improving the graphics even further, if they could. Will that boost give them 10 million+ in profits. Hard to say, but probably not.

Especially, when graphics are only 1 component of what makes a video game. You can always have blockbuster game that has simple graphics, somthing like minecraft.

The gen we saw a lot of big budget game studios go under from poor profits, will the industry be able to continue the trend of increasing graphics, with massive budgets?
 
So previously I was predicting that the Wii U would be 2-4x more powerful than current gen, and that Xbox8/PS4 would in turn be 2-4x more powerful than the Wii U.

It looks now like the Wii U is 2x more powerful than current gen, but the competitors is probably still 2-4x more powerful.
I'm leaning towards the HDHD-twins being 4x more powerful based on the "leaks" saying that they might have up to 8GB of RAM and such. (350GFLOPS versus 1,4TFLOPS as well fits that power multiplier).

It's a pretty big difference, but nowhere close to the gap between the Wii and the HD twins.

The Wii U's GPU will likely be a little more powerful than that in raw power. Additional resources will be needed to render the Wii U controller's screen. Rendering the game's scene twice by itself can require 2x as many shaders, polygons, etc.
 
What possibilities are there for the gamepad other than something you occasionally look down at for menu management?

Doesn't sound like it opens up any tangible game changing opportuties to even warrant the additional cost, especially at the expense of powerful hardware

Well, it can work exactly like the DS' bottom screen. So that means any possibilities that were on the DS is now pretty much there on the Wii U.
 
What possibilities are there for the gamepad other than something you occasionally look down at for menu management?

Doesn't sound like it opens up any tangible game changing opportuties to even warrant the additional cost, especially at the expense of powerful hardware
Well, it has the input functions that the DS has, but since the gamepad isn't attached to anything like the top and bottom screen are for the DS, orientation between the tv and the gamepad could offer different states. Having the gamepad down flat could be a particular state, having the gamepad up and aimed at areas away from the tv could be another particular state, and aiming the gamepad at the tv could also be a state.

Outside of just different input functions, I'm still hoping to see how a decent RTS would work out using the gamepad or IR pointer controls. An updated Grim Grimoire using those controls would be interesting.
 
A little too high.
592mhz it is!
What possibilities are there for the gamepad other than something you occasionally look down at for menu management?

Doesn't sound like it opens up any tangible game changing opportuties to even warrant the additional cost, especially at the expense of powerful hardware
One simple example, Madden's audible controls with a controller can go to hell.
Well, it can work exactly like the DS' bottom screen. So that means any possibilities that were on the DS is now pretty much there on the Wii U.
Stuff where both screens need to be visible or directly connected in some way would be iffy (Mario 64 slingshot minigame, Metroid Pinball, The World Ends with You, etc), at least without modifications to address the larger separation between the screens on Wii U.
 
What possibilities are there for the gamepad other than something you occasionally look down at for menu management?

Doesn't sound like it opens up any tangible game changing opportuties to even warrant the additional cost, especially at the expense of powerful hardware

Not sure how you couldn't see the benefits. Zombiu shows a lot of cool gameplay possibilities.

Then there is all the asymmetrical multiplayer stuff, seen in NintendoLand, Zombiu, Rayman legends. where each player is playing something different but together.

No more 2 player splitscreen, like BLOPS 2, each player gets their own screen.

Then the benefits of off tv play, if the tv is tied up, or maybe you want to play in the bedroom.

The touchscreen could give lots of benefits to certain game genres, like RTS, drawing, MMO, etc.

Or things like being able to watch a movie on netflix, but also still be able to continue browsing netflix movies on the gamepad, w/o stopping the movie on the tv.

And many other things I am missing.
 
Direct X is a Microsoft standard, only windows or xbox can and ever will use it.
Microsoft being the only one allowed to use DX is irrelevant. Regardless of what API you use, every GPU is capable of certain things and supports certain features. People only use DX as a way of indicating where a GPU stands in terms of features, nothing more.
 
592mhz it is!

One simple example, Madden's audible controls with a controller can go to hell.

Stuff where both screens need to be visible or directly connected in some way would be iffy (Mario 64 slingshot minigame, Metroid Pinball, The World Ends with You, etc), at least without modifications to address the larger separation between the screens on Wii U.

It's pretty much like a customisable keypad, can you not see any gameplay enhancing features for such a thing? Much like a computer keypad you have to memorise the positions for it to be useful, but the potenial for input increases by magnitudes.

Have you never played a game seriously on a computer before? It's really not that hard to imagine.
 
Microsoft being the only one allowed to use DX is irrelevant. Regardless of what API you use, every GPU is capable of certain things and supports certain features. People only use DX as a way of indicating where a GPU stands in terms of features, nothing more.
While that's true, it's still just a baseline. GPUs also support features that are not part of the D3D specifications, or incompatible implementations of features that are part of the specifications.
 
I am not sure if his statement has a value whatsoever. As said priorly, FLOPS cannot be compared directly between different devices.

I thought he was talking about clock speed.

567Mhz is my bet 3.5x flipper so GC and Wii compatibility is possible

for cpu

1.944 Ghz for cpu or 4x Gekko

seeing the board narrows things a little more but maybe a high resolution shots of components would be good so some can go to source vendors of certain components and peruse their sites and press releases for some clues or info.
 
The Wii U's GPU will likely be a little more powerful than that in raw power. Additional resources will be needed to render the Wii U controller's screen. Rendering the game's scene twice by itself can require 2x as many shaders, polygons, etc.

Of course if two screens are showing the same scene, you only need to render it once.
 
Gemüsepizza;43111748 said:
"Completely irrelevant"? No. You are wrong.



I am sure this could change when they see the first PS4/Xbox720 games.

Till the very end, aren´t we?

You seem truly frightened about a successful Wii U, in my eyes...

The fact that the gap is far smaller than Wii -> xbox 360 somehow has people scared...
 
I thought he was talking about clock speed.

567Mhz is my bet 3.5x flipper so GC and Wii compatibility is possible

for cpu

1.944 Ghz for cpu or 4x Gekko

seeing the board narrows things a little more but maybe a high resolution shots of components would be good so some can go to source vendors of certain components and peruse their sites and press releases for some clues or info.

better mother board shots, and from straight overhead etc, should also yield better die size estimations.

although at some point some teardown site will get a ruler out and end the guesstimates.
 
What that extra screen gives me in options and gameplay features over the extra 500GFLOPS of the other console, is worth way way way way more than better graphics.

For example?

Also, tech bump in the past was always more than just better graphics, you shouldn't forget this.

Also, there is no such thing as dimnishing returns in terms of technical advancement. And to think that even if it would exist, we could've already reached it, is beyoned naive. 3D graphics are still in it's childhood years, we didn't even reach adolescence. It's about 15 years since 3D became relevant. 15 years from now on we will have technology which will make Mario 64 look like PONG.

Even Nintendo is giving credit to this, other than that they would've just released the new gamepad and that's about it. But they upgraded their machine and Nintendo Fans seem quite happy about it that they have finally HD, HDMI and maybe a bit better graphics and image quality. So if anything, Nintendo fans are graphic whores as well - they are just a generation behind.
 
Don't know if this has already been discussed, but what do you guys make of Nintendo going all hardware on our asses? I know it isn't full detailed specs, but disclosing exact ram amount and showing console innards is pretty in depth for them recently.
 
Of course but for asymmetric gameplay (BLOPS 2 multiplyaer etc), it'll probably need to be capable for rendering both anyway.

Not sure if TV+pad would be that much different from split screen. Do you know if BLOPS 2 supports split screen + pad for 3 local players?
 
Don't know if this has already been discussed, but what do you guys make of Nintendo going all hardware on our asses? I know it isn't full detailed specs, but disclosing exact ram amount and showing console innards is pretty in depth for them recently.

Quite surprising but they know that it will be torn appart on day 1 anyhow so they propably thought, "Might aswell show the stuff ourselves"...
 
Don't know if this has already been discussed, but what do you guys make of Nintendo going all hardware on our asses? I know it isn't full detailed specs, but disclosing exact ram amount and showing console innards is pretty in depth for them recently.

True, didn't expect them to be as forthcoming as they've been.
 
It's pretty much like a customisable keypad, can you not see any gameplay enhancing features for such a thing? Much like a computer keypad you have to memorise the positions for it to be useful, but the potenial for input increases by magnitudes.

It's nothing new when used like that :p
59OWR.jpg
 
Don't know if this has already been discussed, but what do you guys make of Nintendo going all hardware on our asses? I know it isn't full detailed specs, but disclosing exact ram amount and showing console innards is pretty in depth for them recently.

I guess they want to profit as much as they can from being the ones with the most powerful hardware. Because they know it won't last long.
 
Gemüsepizza;43117088 said:
I guess they want to profit as much as they can from being the ones with the most powerful hardware. Because they know it won't last long.

Lol well as far as I know they haven't exactly been touting most powerful console business. Or really very many numbers at all. They just seem to be more focused on the hardware right now than in the recent past.
 
What possibilities are there for the gamepad other than something you occasionally look down at for menu management?

Doesn't sound like it opens up any tangible game changing opportuties to even warrant the additional cost, especially at the expense of powerful hardware

Outside of the very narrow, asymmetrical multiplayer they've shown, you're absolutely right. People talk about how great it will be to have maps, inventories and other information displayed on the controller, but it's actually a regressions. Heads Up Displays were invented so pilots wouldn't have to keep looking down at their instrument panels all the time. That the WiiU forces players to take their eyes off the action is literally a step backward.

It's pretty much like a customisable keypad, can you not see any gameplay enhancing features for such a thing? Much like a computer keypad you have to memorise the positions for it to be useful, but the potenial for input increases by magnitudes.

You know what people are super critical about with Vita games? Any time you're asked to take your hands off the stick and buttons in order to interact with some touch screen UI element. It literally makes people angry. And this is on a system where most screen prompts are within thumb-reach, where you don't have to look away from the screen where the gameplay is happening.

Hotkeys only work for PC games because most people are accustom to their keyboard's layout by feel. That advantage is completely negated by a touch screen where the buttons can be wherever the developers wants and offer zero tactile feedback for their location, or successful use. It is a step backward.
 
I think people are overestimating the leap that Sony and MS's next machines will actually "show". Graphics(most people's indicator of greatness) are peaking for the time being. The 720/PS4 won't even compete with my current PC..why should I or anyone else care if the Wii-U will be even close to them...?

Every new generation so far has seen at least one platform be right there with the highest of high end PCs at the time of its launch and that won't change. Sony and Microsoft will be incredibly powerful at launch, no doubt about that.
 
I have to say my Wii U mood has taken a negative turn in the last few hours.

From being pointed to a ERP comment on B3D that implied it's not looking good, to viewing some random new footage of Zombie U that convinced me, forget on par, it's definitively below what 360 games are doing (imo). To Mario being outed as not 1080P.
 
No more 2 player splitscreen, like BLOPS 2, each player gets their own screen.

Going down from half of a 55 inch screen to 6.2" is bad, as is going from 640x720 to 858x480.

Then the benefits of off tv play, if the tv is tied up, or maybe you want to play in the bedroom.

Nintendo has said more than once that you can only use the Wii U Gamepad in the same room as the console. So no playing from the bedroom or bathroom for you.

The touchscreen could give lots of benefits to certain game genres, like RTS, drawing, MMO, etc.

And makes the gaming experience even more detached than it already is. Because you constantly have to switch between the interactive small screen right in front of you and the big screen on the wall.

Or things like being able to watch a movie on netflix, but also still be able to continue browsing netflix movies on the gamepad, w/o stopping the movie on the tv.

Why would I then watch it in the first place?

And many other things I am missing.[/QUOTE]
 
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