Square Enix Member Survey-What qualities do you like most about Lightning?
- Thread starter MagiusNecros
- Start date
Aren't.
That aside, there's not enough motivation for someone to go out of her way, as a previous poster stated, Square Enix don't even seem like they care enough about her.
"I hate all of Lightning's qualities as her only good quality is her looks which reflects the current titles developed that focus on graphics and amount to looking good while having a overall lackluster feel. She comes off as a sterotypical hardass lamer who does a 180 degree turn in the sequel becoming sad and poetic hence becoming out of character by saying she will serve no higher power but then goes to serve a higher power anyway and the final installment will instate her a demigodlike entity with little or obscure reasons as to how that came to be. Furthermore she is a static, stagnant and overall pathetic character that is so forgettable that she seems to be a mere afterthought in the context of the role she plays in. She makes characters that are meant to be static appear deeper and more thought out then she is." (My thoughts of whatever)"
No. You'll have to accept you like her an abnormal amount compared to most players.
I watched every cutscene and read every datalog. I even tried to will myself to liking the game/characters by getting every trophy, but in the end I have to agree with the majority of posters who Square let down.
I just like Lightning's toughness. I wanted to see more of her military background come forth in her character. See more scenes that really show off her physical ability and resolve. See some scenes with her thinking critically, strategicially and adapting faster than others; scenes with her enduring past the point where others give up first.
Her character now is so different from the first game that it's hard to say how that will apply to LR. That's cool, I'm interested to see what comes of it. What are the psychological effects of being able to see all of time? She was definitely a bit more philosophical and goddess-ish in her dialogue in the 2nd game, so I'd kind of expect a bit more of that. At the same time, I think that they'll finally bring her full martial prowess up to the forefront with the overdrive stuff, the anti-grav moves like were originally planned in the first game. So, it'll be an interesting mix of old and new.
But yeah, her character is really pretty simple, and what makes her work isn't too complex. People like to see her endure, and overcome incredible odds; to be stronger than others and more determined. So yeah, more of that would be neat.
Serah was interesting because it really gave you the first window into her human side, and what their family dynamic might have been like. You can see qualities of each of them in the other, but they're both pretty different too.
Her character now is so different from the first game that it's hard to say how that will apply to LR. That's cool, I'm interested to see what comes of it. What are the psychological effects of being able to see all of time? She was definitely a bit more philosophical and goddess-ish in her dialogue in the 2nd game, so I'd kind of expect a bit more of that. At the same time, I think that they'll finally bring her full martial prowess up to the forefront with the overdrive stuff, the anti-grav moves like were originally planned in the first game. So, it'll be an interesting mix of old and new.
But yeah, her character is really pretty simple, and what makes her work isn't too complex. People like to see her endure, and overcome incredible odds; to be stronger than others and more determined. So yeah, more of that would be neat.
Serah was interesting because it really gave you the first window into her human side, and what their family dynamic might have been like. You can see qualities of each of them in the other, but they're both pretty different too.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Ok, I'll explain:
You said:
Imagine a third situation - Concisely written and choreographed scenes depict Lightning's dilemma; without any extrinsic information, the audience understands her, relates to her, and perceives the self-reprehension that serves as her motivation to go forward.
Then you said:
No it doesn't. Nobody is saying that a movie does a better job either. Not even you did since your aforementioned examples 1 & 2 are only "Reading" and "Listening"; a movie is much more than that. You can't use this in your argument when you never weighed it out. In fact, very few people do when defending FFXIII because it doesn't work.
But I will weigh it out: a video game is a medium that has potential to be much more than the sum of its parts. One well done cutscene can be worth a million words and an impact that is intuitively effective can outweigh the "details". They failed this with Lightning (although it isn't her fault imo). This is partly why people don't care for her.
I get the feeling that we both like Lightning (your avatar is awesome btw) - but would you agree that they gave her arch brevity yet lacked comprehension? Is it fair that people will not feel that she was a good character because the impact wasn't articulated in film but rather in text? I'm bothered by the haters, sure, but I understand why and I certainly can't call them lazy. See what I mean?
I get your point. I still have to question some of the things you said though. But I will do so later when I get back, because I really have to leave now.
Sorry.NoirVisage
Banned
TacticalFox88
Banned
I'm actually surprised that her bust size isn't bigger.
Look, if we're gonna discuss the datalog, let's at least acknowledge the main problem with FFXIII's story - it spends its first half (about 20 hours) doing nothing but recapping what happened before the beginning of the game, which was apparently where all the real stuff happened. Almost nothing happens between the game's actual opening and when the characters get to Gran Pulse.
Hildibrand fom FF14 and Shantotto from FF11 are better characters - clearlt the devs like them a lot, but at least they're amysing and aren't constantly rubbed in the players' faces, which helps balance things.
I don't dislike Lightning, it's just that she clearly borrows from past protagonists (Squall's focus on getting things done over relating to others, Terra's later days self-imposed team mom role) while lacking something that feels uniquely hers - maybe she got that in XIII-2 with the goddess thing, but it seemed a bit late by then, not to mention it represents the pedestal SE wants everyone else to put her on.
It also felt pretty weird to see her matched with Garland in the Duodecim intro - seeing that I was all "seriously dear, you're just the latest protagonist and the series will move on without you, Garland there will always be the original antagonist, no match". (Garland and Gilgamesh would make more sense and easily support its own spin-off game)
As for looks she's one of the very few pink-gaires characters I can tolerate, but she's still no Baiken from Guilty Gear (no eye, no arm, no problem). The half-cape look stupid, especially on a police analigue who's supposed to keep things practical. The armor in XIII-2 promotional videos looked like an improvement though.
Basically they're going for the "I'll post this everyday until you like it" tactic of burning a character in people's psyches until they can come up with a XIII people will consistently praise, for the sake of avoiding a major stain in the IP, as offline games can't be reworked post-release like the MMOs - if the first games are criticized they'll be able to say they were necessary steps towards the good one.
Cloud and Sephiroth are still popular on their own, even if their specific issues are rarely addressed by their apparent fandom, no wonder SE wants more of that, but this is getting pretty silly.
I don't dislike Lightning, it's just that she clearly borrows from past protagonists (Squall's focus on getting things done over relating to others, Terra's later days self-imposed team mom role) while lacking something that feels uniquely hers - maybe she got that in XIII-2 with the goddess thing, but it seemed a bit late by then, not to mention it represents the pedestal SE wants everyone else to put her on.
It also felt pretty weird to see her matched with Garland in the Duodecim intro - seeing that I was all "seriously dear, you're just the latest protagonist and the series will move on without you, Garland there will always be the original antagonist, no match". (Garland and Gilgamesh would make more sense and easily support its own spin-off game)
As for looks she's one of the very few pink-gaires characters I can tolerate, but she's still no Baiken from Guilty Gear (no eye, no arm, no problem). The half-cape look stupid, especially on a police analigue who's supposed to keep things practical. The armor in XIII-2 promotional videos looked like an improvement though.
Basically they're going for the "I'll post this everyday until you like it" tactic of burning a character in people's psyches until they can come up with a XIII people will consistently praise, for the sake of avoiding a major stain in the IP, as offline games can't be reworked post-release like the MMOs - if the first games are criticized they'll be able to say they were necessary steps towards the good one.
Cloud and Sephiroth are still popular on their own, even if their specific issues are rarely addressed by their apparent fandom, no wonder SE wants more of that, but this is getting pretty silly.
This makes no sense to me.
Does anyone really want to play a game where Lightning goes on routine patrols in a peaceful city, then comes home from work and fights with Serah? Or playing Team Nora as they cause trouble and hang out at the beach? Or play Sazh as he picks up his kid from school and shops for a baby chocobo for his birthday? Or Hope doing homework, going on field trips at school and hating his dad? That's really all that happened before the game started in the Episode Zero stuff.
The flashbacks show Serah and Dajh getting turned into l'cie, Snow's wedding proposal, Lightning's birthday; this isn't super critical stuff. The game started at the first major event, the Purge. The only thing we really missed was seeing Serah wander into The Vestige and get turned into a l'cie.
It started in a very similar way to FFX, with heavy action immediately. No one knew what the giant water orb was, what blitzball was, what Zanarkand was, who Auron was, or what Sin was. You didn't find out until much later in the game. Everyone was cool with it, so I don't really get the complaints honestly.
Was Lightning part of the real military of cocoon? It's been awhile since I played the game, but wasn't she some sort of police officer effectively? I remember it being somewhat confusing as to difference between PSICOM and whatever branch Lightning was part of.
Lady Bird
Matsuno's Goebbels
You know, they could always adapt the story to add more threats at that point of the story. A story is not real life, it's a work structured to be as good as possible (whatever you might interpret as good).
And FFX was much better here.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Okay, fuck all these paragraphs and lets simplify this shit to what it boils down to for female Square characters likability:
Would you hit it?
Would you hit it?
She was part of the local Bodhum police force I think. I always got the sense that she was part of a more elite military unit before that, but I don't know if they ever said. XIII-2 has a side quest where she meets a few soldiers that she knew in the past before XIII, and they don't seem like part of the police force.
PSICOM is like the way the CIA is portrayed in movies. A little more ruthless, a little more outside the law. Sometimes they clash with the FBI, or Homeland Security or whoever.
The Guardian Corps (Cid leads a sub-section of this called The Cavalry) is more of a traditional military force that follows the law more closely.
sublimit
Banned
Should have been first post.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Yeah, I actually wouldn't have minded playing the characters' prequel novel backstories as long as they adapted them in an interesting fashion (and Lightning's chapter would have given us some information about the military of Cocoon, certain hierarchies, the extent of monster threats on Cocoon, etc.).
A Trinity Sight System-esque sort of thing up to the point where they all join up would've worked a bit, I think. Provided it was designed well.
I have a very deep affection for FFX-2 as a whole, and also the FFX version of Yuna. I think they ended up developing her character, motivations, and general personality very well and she came out as a strong character overall.
Yuna is actually pretty close to a l'cie. She has a focus, and it will result in her death when its completed. The only difference is that she trained to adapt to that, and basically just suppresses all her emotions for most of the game so she can fulfill her duties.
AlphaDragoon
Member
This. FFX or FFX-2 Yuna owns Claire all day everyday.
I wish SE would just accept that a good percent of us just hate that douche and move on.
sublimit
Banned
Yeah this.It's a night and day difference really.One behaves like a living breathing character and the other is as shallow and one-dimensional as a rock.
Ah, that makes more sense. I always wondered why Lightning was so bad ass even before the whole L'cie thing. I was always like, "whoa, Bodhum has some impressive cops..."
I agree. The greatness of Yuna was that I was really able to emphasize with her and her character. Lightning... not so much. It wouldn't be so bad if Square just stopped plastering her everywhere. Her design may be cool, but her personality is ridiculously boring.
Tidus.... man.... in the same sentence... does not compute.
computers putin'
Member
She's doesn't really have much in common with the Cloud we saw in FF7, if you're comparing her to the Cloud that showed up in Advent Children then I guess this is a fair comparison. She's more like a female Squall, but even then she's a far more shallow character than him.
Femmeworth
Banned
Lightning's best quality is that she isn't Vanille.
Blast Processing
Member
I wonder, would Lighting fans still like her if she looked like this?
Depends, is she in an 80's metal cover band?
I wonder, would Lighting fans still like her if she looked like this?
Kurt Cobain?
sublimit
Banned
Indeed.It's as if SE is trying too hard to make her an important character in the series when in reality she just doesn't have the "weight" many past FF characters had.
The more SE tries to make me think of her as an important character the more annoying she becomes.
I've been having a terrible day but this thread gave me a good laugh. Thanks guys.
I really don't care about Lightning either but it seems SE do. The rant in the OP was quite spot one about her being submitted to an higher power.
Hopefully she will be retired with the rest of the XIII universe after Lightning Returns.
RSLAEV
Member
Well from what little I could bear to play of FF13 and 13-2, I don't think it's fair to focus hate on Lightning, I couldn't get past the whole 'forced-sentimentality' that permeated both games. It felt like whoever was behind the wheel of the games had specific emotions that he wanted to evoke, but the execution felt ham-fisted and inelegant.
I'd be surprised if she wasn't in Kingdom Hearts 3, and surprised if she wasn't awesome in it.
DR2K
Banned
...whatever.
Vanille is FFXIII best character though.
DanielJr82
Member
She's pretty like a doll.
And like a doll she's just as emotionless.
And like a doll she's just as emotionless.
Femmeworth
Banned
What's funny? While I don't consider her the best personally, Vanille is a decent character though.
Did you play the game on mute?
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