Yes let's compare an expansion to a full game... Vanilla MVC3 sold over 2 million rather quickly and didn't have near the amount of hype build up by Capcom that SFxT did.
Fighting Games Weekly | December 24-30 | How will we free Lando now?
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Professor Beef
Banned
You both mention Vanilla when I specified UMvC3. Do you have trouble reading?
The only reason Capcom is focusing is SFxT because they poured a ton more money into it, and UMvC3 is already the second iteration in it's series.
Also, SFxTK is being developed for two times as many platforms than UMvC3 is. SFxTK was made for all the platforms UMvC3 was plus iPhone, plus iPad, plus PC. They serve more to gain, especially since MvC3 has already experienced the iterative drop off which was larger than that of SFIVs.
I know exactly what you said, I am saying the comparison was bad in the first place.
I agree with Kirblar, the expectation of consumers in general is in today's market is one that favors regular updates over disc expansions that render the previous versions obsolete. I have to wonder how long it's going to take Capcom to realize this.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Tell me one digital update that had less of a percentage drop off than SF4 to SSF4.
They almost certainly realize it now. The problem is, as always, that Japan's is very idiosyncratic and out of step with the way most of the rest of the modern market functions, and that they're still going to do things the "Japanese" way until the market shows them it won't work.
Do non-fighting games count? Quite a few PC game expansions don't have as much of a percentage drop.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I want to say arcsys had the right idea. It would of been about 3 years from CS to CP but then they went and released extend. Which really hurt them bad. It would of been about 3 years from CS to CP. Though I'm thankful for that mistake as it made them go all out on CP
"God's Beard!"
Member
Which ones? As far as consoles go, I'd be surprised if any expansion did as well as SSFIV. Even GTA episodes and Call of Duty map packs are relatively low in terms of percentage drop off.
Karsticles
Member
The funny thing about Marvel non-news is that it still makes everyone argue about it.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
UMVC3 being released only 6 months after MVC3 wasn't in all parts Capcom but they did have a hand. Remember an interview with Seth regarding this, and the biggest reason was getting UMVC3 out before Avengers came out and Marvel requiring this, or something,
The release window for UMVC3 was November 2011, Early 2012 or later 2012. Early 2012 didn't work because the game would be competing with SFxT, and later 2012 didn't work for Marvel because of all their marketing for Avengers. So, they were kind of forced to 2011 and knew it would be sending the game to it's grave, albeit not their decision entirely.
Capcom has gone on record several times explaining the challenges of working with a company like Marvel on MVC3/UMVC3. Based off some personal experiences of my own with Marvel as a company, I don't think Capcom would touch the MVC franchise with a 10 foot pole unless Marvel threw some godley amount of money at a project. But, considering the sales of MVC3/UMVC3 combined and the profit margins being divided among both the companies...you can kind of see why neither would want to do anything after UMVC3.
IMO (and a lot probably know my opinion already), Capcom searching through other company franchises to spruce up their new fighter isn't really worth it. Only reason I like the Vs series so much in the past was because Xmen was fuck all awesome in the 90s when comics were at their peak. I only know about a lot of the Marvel cast in UMVC3 because of UMVC3. Sure it helps spread the Marvel brand for all their new movies (Avengers/Guardians of the Galaxy) coming soon, but I feel it's not exactly worth it in the long run when having to go through legal loophole after loophole just to get a patch or DLC approved through Marvel and Capcom's legal team, and have that also cost money at Capcom's expense.
TLDR: Ditch the crossovers and make Capcom All Stars. There's enough franchises/badass characters from the past 25 years of Capcom to warrant one of the greatest fighting game casts ever.
I was thinking more along the lines of WoW/Diablo expansions.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I think Beefs original post was correct. They have more to gain pushing SFxTekken than an UMVC3 update.
I hope they make at least another game with that engine without Marvel guys so they don't have to split that sweet profit.
I hope they make at least another game with that engine without Marvel guys so they don't have to split that sweet profit.
Well, BlazBlue CT/CS/CP updates are essentially sequels.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yeah, they are but to the average person they won't view it that way. Tons of people think the games are rehashes even though the entire system mechanics get swaped up between those three or new ones get added cs1->cs2.
It really felt like extend was there because they were only half way done with cp at the time. Extend was pretty much a rehash and a really fucking bad one that dumbed down almost everything about the game... ugh I honestly get pissed when ever I think about the damn game.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
Welp. I think I'm gonna have to play Tekken for like 6 months just to be terrible at it, opposed to being completely fucking horrible.
Karsticles
Member
Well said. Unfortunately, I don't like the outcome of your logic because it's not what I want to hear.
Capcom All Stars...eh, I'm just not confident that they will do it right. If it's 100% MvC3 gameplay minus TACs, then I'm in if they put Breath of Fire II Nina in. They're taking away one of my angels, so now they need to give me another.
Then there's just the question of who could possibly replace Dormammu...
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
You can get above average in tekken in about 2 to 3 months with dedication. The hard part about the game is knowing what to block and movement, your own characters moveset sorta doesn't matter in a way
LOL
Karsticles
Member
Aesthetically, Capcom has a few prospects:
LOL
Firebrand
Rathalos
Jedah
Is there a moveset that could hold my interest so beautifully? Hum...
Then there's the issue of a split fanbase. How many hardcore UMvC3 fans will move on to CAS? Capcom can't replace classic characters like Magneto...
RockTurtle
Member
juicebox was being salty as hell earlier.
basically saying the only way to teach people is to be mean and call em out whenever they f up.
basically saying the only way to teach people is to be mean and call em out whenever they f up.
Karsticles
Member
Aesthetically, Capcom has a few prospects:
LOL
Firebrand
Rathalos
Jedah
Pyron (maybe)
Is there a moveset that could hold my interest so beautifully? Hum...
Then there's the issue of a split fanbase. How many hardcore UMvC3 fans will move on to CAS? Capcom can't replace classic characters like Magneto...
Edit: Oooo, Onimusha has some cool looking demons.
WesternHeretic
Member
What exactly is Capcom all-stars like Capcom fighting Jam 2?
Is that what you guys are wishing for?
Is that what you guys are wishing for?
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Pyron would be good. I really wish we got Demon's crest firebrand in UMvC3 his move set could of been fucking insane. But I guess they didn't want a second ammy style character
Capcom fighting jam was a good idea, just it being slapped together like a mugen game wasnt
Karsticles
Member
I wanted Firebrand to be like a Dark Phoenix that you have to build to slowly, where 1 bar = 1 crest, until you get them all and he becomes godlike.
I just want UMvC3's gameplay with all Capcom characters if that means we'll get guaranteed regular updates. I'd rather have UMvC3 updates, but I'll take what I can get.
Something like a Marvel game only the Marvel cast is replaced by Capcom characters.
Essentially using an updated MVC3 engine, change around some core mechanics and replace the Marvel roster with Capcom characters.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
It's all about marketing really. Tout the game as the ultimate classic vs modern dream match. Show Leon Kennedy from RE2 having a ranged gun battle with Mega Man X and that's almost a guaranteed 2 million units.
Dennis Miller: But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Just don't put Mega Man in it please. Enough of that guy.
I doubt many people are hoping for a Fighting Jam 2.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Gill has meteors, close enough.
SSF4 sold about 60% of SF4, and as far as I can figure out, all the WoW expansions only hit about 30-40% attach rate to the number of subscribers. Diablo 2's expansion only sold about a quarter of the base game.
SSF4 sold about 60% of SF4, and as far as I can figure out, all the WoW expansions only hit about 30-40% attach rate to the number of subscribers. Diablo 2's expansion only sold about a quarter of the base game.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yeah fuck him don't put any mega mans in. They should put bass.exe in though.
Eh that wouldn't really work in marvel characters can't really have a unique system to them. I was thinking more like MvC1 ryu with using a super to form change
Karsticles
Member
I feel like MvC3 had the whole "10 years" thing going for it to build up hype, plus a huge number of people bought the game out of a love for Marvel franchises. My opinion, very different from yours, is that most RE fans don't love Leon Kennedy, they love RE. Leon Kennedy being in a fighting game doesn't mean crap to them, because Leon Kennedy is already in plenty of games and plays like "himself". But Wolverine, Storm, Magneto, etc.? People want a chance to fight these guys against each other in an evolved form. When you get rid of that, what are going to hype people on? Ryu, again? Dead franchise characters with small followings?
Har har.
Screw that freak.
Both! They have 25 slots to fill (I assume they're keeping the MvC3 cast, it would be dumb not to), so there's plenty of love to go around. What would a 50-man CAS roster look like without a bunch of filler crap?
Huh? Marvel has tons of characters with systems unique to them...each hyper would shift HP/damage/speed a la Wesker glasses coming off or Arthur's armor falling off and add a move a la Wright picking up evidence (but not random).
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
Pretty much all of Capcom's history / following in one sentence.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Ah you made it sound like he just needed to build a meter to unlock a crest. Yeah spending a bar for an upgrade would work. I guess there is a few characters that have subsystems frank being the biggest they just dont show it in depth. *the build up that is* You pretty much gotta keep track of the combo counter yourself.
Karsticles
Member
They have big hit stuff, like Street Fighter and Resident Evil. I feel the problem is that UMvC3 tapped those resources to the extent anyone would care about, so what's left for CAS to tap from those big hits to attract people? Plus you know they'll re-use assets from UMvC3, which will piss people off even more. Still, BoF2 Nina and I'm in, and I'll campaign all over for the game.
Indeed, I was a bit ambiguous there.
"God's Beard!"
Member
- Akuma
- Amaterasu
- Arthur
- Chris
- Chun-Li
- C.Viper
- Dante
- Felicia
- Firebrand
- Frank West
- Haggar
- Hsien-Ko
- Jill Valentine
- Morrigan
- Nemesis
- Phoenix Wright
- Ryu
- Spencer
- Strider
- Trish
- Tron Bonne
- Vergil
- Viewtiful Joe
- Wesker
- Zero
- Akira Kazama (Rival Schools)
- Alexander the Grater (Saturday Night Slam Masters)
- Asura (Asura's Wrath)
- Captain Commando (Captain Commando)
- Deis (Breath of Fire)
- Donovan (Vampire Hunter)
- Dr. Wily (Mega Man)
- Gene (God Hand)
- Gill (3rd Strike)
- Gogandantess (Onimusha)
- Hayato (Plasma Sword)
- Hydron (Red Earth)
- Jedah (Vampire Savior)
- Lt. Linn Kurosawa (AvP)
- Maximo (Maximo)
- Megaman.exe (Battle Network)
- Proto Man (Mega Man Soccer)
- PTX (Lost Planet)
- Rathalos (Monster Hunter)
- Regina (Dino Crisis)
- Rouge (Power Stone)
- SonSon (SonSon)
- Twin Princes (Chiki Chiki Boys)
- Vanessa Z. Schneider (P.N. 03)
- Vertical Tank (Steel Battalion)
Only added one character per series, aww yeah.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
CLOUD STRIFE FOR BRAWL
"God's Beard!"
Member
Ehrgeiz for EVO 2013
Professor Beef
Banned
Who are you using in Tekken, LF?
I want that, but I also want it to seem like everything wasn't thrown together in a blender. And no Marvel stuff, please.
I want that, but I also want it to seem like everything wasn't thrown together in a blender. And no Marvel stuff, please.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
It should be Protoman.exe so it'd be another Mega Man sword asshole
"God's Beard!"
Member
Capcom fighting game tiers:
S:
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
UMVC3
Marvel vs Capcom 1
Capcom Fighting Jam
Saturday Night Slam Masters
A:
3rd Strike
Vampire Savior
Hyper Fighting
CVS2
Marvel Superheroes
B:
Marvel 2
Super Turbo
Alpha 2
AE2012
Rival Schools
C:
Alpha 3
Red Earth
Plasma Sword
TvC
Onimusha Blade Warriors
D:
Everything Else
F:
Power Stone
S:
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
UMVC3
Marvel vs Capcom 1
Capcom Fighting Jam
Saturday Night Slam Masters
A:
3rd Strike
Vampire Savior
Hyper Fighting
CVS2
Marvel Superheroes
B:
Marvel 2
Super Turbo
Alpha 2
AE2012
Rival Schools
C:
Alpha 3
Red Earth
Plasma Sword
TvC
Onimusha Blade Warriors
D:
Everything Else
F:
Power Stone
God damn it we are putting in wishlists now?
My list:
1) Gene (Godhand)
2) Asura (Asura's Wrath)
3) Captain Commando
4) Jin Saotome (Cyberbots)
5) Akira Kazama (Rival Schools)
6) Hayato (Star Gladiator)
7) Tessa (Red Earth)
8) Jedah (Darkstalkers)
9) Seth (SF4)
10) Date Masamune (Sengoku Basara)
11) Rathalos (Monster Hunter)
12) Regina (Dino Crisis)
13) Ryu + Nina (Breath of Fire)
14) PTX (Lost Planet)
15) Vanessa Schneider (PN03)
16) Alastor (Viewtiful Joe)
17) Maximo (Maximo Ghosts to Glory)
18) Nero (Devil May Cry 4) or Lady (Devil May Cry 3)
19) Donovan (Darkstalkers)
20) Dhalsim (MVC2)
21) Soki (Onimusha)
22) Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
23) Leo or Kenji (Red Earth)
24) Sissel (Ghost Trick)
25) Harman Smith (Killer7)
Honestly speaking after 20 or so I had to dig deep to find good characters. I think Harman Smith from Killer 7 would be a good choice if they somehow incorporated all his different personas. I think an All Star Capcom game will tap out most of Capcom's good characters and they would have to dig into some of their more obscure choices to bring out something worthwhile. Also I didn't list it in there but I would want Ruby Heart in as well, especially since she's apparently getting a new game too.
My list:
1) Gene (Godhand)
2) Asura (Asura's Wrath)
3) Captain Commando
4) Jin Saotome (Cyberbots)
5) Akira Kazama (Rival Schools)
6) Hayato (Star Gladiator)
7) Tessa (Red Earth)
8) Jedah (Darkstalkers)
9) Seth (SF4)
10) Date Masamune (Sengoku Basara)
11) Rathalos (Monster Hunter)
12) Regina (Dino Crisis)
13) Ryu + Nina (Breath of Fire)
14) PTX (Lost Planet)
15) Vanessa Schneider (PN03)
16) Alastor (Viewtiful Joe)
17) Maximo (Maximo Ghosts to Glory)
18) Nero (Devil May Cry 4) or Lady (Devil May Cry 3)
19) Donovan (Darkstalkers)
20) Dhalsim (MVC2)
21) Soki (Onimusha)
22) Simon Belmont (Castlevania)
23) Leo or Kenji (Red Earth)
24) Sissel (Ghost Trick)
25) Harman Smith (Killer7)
Honestly speaking after 20 or so I had to dig deep to find good characters. I think Harman Smith from Killer 7 would be a good choice if they somehow incorporated all his different personas. I think an All Star Capcom game will tap out most of Capcom's good characters and they would have to dig into some of their more obscure choices to bring out something worthwhile. Also I didn't list it in there but I would want Ruby Heart in as well, especially since she's apparently getting a new game too.
Damn it. Tekken is not that hard. I gave the series a break after T5 and went back into with T6 forgetting literally everything. It was a fresh new experience for me. Started off sucking real badly and in a few months, I was doing pretty well.
Stop letting it overwhelm you. I can understand coming from a 2D background to Tekken may possibly be a very frightening experience but it's not that bad.
Right now, you might be messing up any combo you may have learned, your blocking may be disastrous and you might keep getting juggled to infinity. But it gets better. Much better if you are patient and diligent.
Which characters are you using?
They should do Zero.exe and give him Sigma colors/alt for the ultimate troll.
scytheavatar
Member
MvC3 succeed not just because of the characters, but also because it's a well made game that gave fun to those who played it and looked attractive to those not playing it. If they made another good fighting game with Capcom only characters and market it well people will buy it. The 25 Capcom characters already in UMvC3 are enough to sell fighting games, any more is just icing on the cake.
AE 2012 is B rank? hmmmmmmmm......
slightconfuse
Banned
as long as some or all of my boys 12,Q and Urian/gill are in Capcom all stars i will buy it