Support NeoGAF

[DICKS AHOY]

I'll admit Heavy Rain's hilariously awful plot is far more inexcusable than MOM's since the story is really the only thing that game has in the way of design, but Other M was still frequently marketed as one of Nintendo's first story-heavy games. Back of the box even mentions FULLY VOICED CUT SCENES as a selling point. Wow!

 

[RagnarokX]

I'm asking that she be capable of motivating her own choices without external input.

You act like this game is a documentary, detailing true events from an objective perspective. It's a story written by people. People with both conscious and subconscious ideas about how people behave and ought to behave. When a story takes a character who was previously empowered and systematically eliminates their power for no real narrative purpose, it's not hard to see that these ideas are shining through.

Basically we found out in Other M that Samus really was, in the eyes of her creators, just a reward in a bikini all along. That's why Other M gets such vitriol.

She made a choice to work on a team and follow orders. The situation demanded it.

I'm acting like sexism is the differential treatment of a person based on gender. You said you are basing your position on the text of the game, and when I asked for evidence you laughed at how absurd it was I wished to discuss the game you are discussing as well. What concrete examples are there that Samus was obeying Adam because of their gender differences? That the authorization system was anything more than a clumsy, contrived explanation for limiting and doling out power for the player?

I think the problem is that most people (like me) would assume Samus would say fuck all that and kick some ass. Samus was to many of us a powerful, silent hunter that did things her way. I honestly don't think people want Samus to get married and be a house wife or something either, though it would probably still make for a better game than other M.

Of course she would. That's why Adam had to shoot her with the deus ex machina gun to incapacitate her. It was dumb and they could have handled it better, but that scene is not an example of her obeying orders without question.

 

[AntMurda]

I'll admit Heavy Rain's hilariously awful plot is far more inexcusable than MOM's since the story is really the only thing that game has in the way of design, but Other M was still frequently marketed as one of Nintendo's first story-heavy games. Back of the box even mentions FULLY VOICED CUT SCENES as a selling point. Wow!

1. Heavy Rain's hilarious awful plot? Compared to what typical video games or the entire selection of Netflix movies? Hyperbole much.

2. 3D Zelda games have equal or more horrible chimes of story driven text usually i think. But eitherway I don't think Nintendo ever said that, and it certaintly isn't the case considering all the graphic text adventures Nintendo released on the Famicom and Super Famicom.

 

[maharg]

She made a choice to work on a team and follow orders. The situation demanded it.

I'm acting like sexism is the differential treatment of a person based on gender. You said you are basing your position on the text of the game, and when I asked for evidence you laughed at how absurd it was I wished to discuss the game you are discussing as well. What concrete examples are there that Samus was obeying Adam because of their gender differences? That the authorization system was anything more than a clumsy, contrived explanation for limiting and doling out power for the player?

Of course she would. That's why Adam had to shoot her with the deus ex machina gun to incapacitate her. It was dumb and they could have handled it better, but that scene is not an example of her obeying orders without question.

I laughed because your notion of criticism is so ridiculously narrow, and apparently circumscribed perfectly to avoid calling this game sexist. The text itself is sexist because of the scenarios it portrays and because of its treatment of a powerful female character. The concrete example is *the entire thing*. I don't even know where to begin with this bizarre idea you have about sexism in media and how it's eliminated by swapping genders around, as if the genders came out of a slot machine no human had control over.

As for Adam Having To Shoot Her, it's an example of Samus being punished for *finally*, after all the ridiculous shit she's been put through, acting on her own agency. And still, after being shot in the back by this guy she admired, having her power taken away from her BY FORCE this time, she still admires him enough to continue to be gaga over him in Fusion.

We obviously disagree on some fundamental things here, so I'm not sure there's much point in continuing. Your entire premise all but argues that sexism in media doesn't even exist (because any example of it could be handwaved away by genderswapping), and I'm not willing to meet you even half way on that premise.

 

[Htown]

You can see the lack of agency on the part of Samus as soon as you realize that she doesn't actually solve any of the major problems on the bottle ship. She just kills some monsters, hits some switches, and everything that actually solves the problem is done by other characters.

• She doesn't stop the Deleter, MB does.
• She doesn't stop the threat posed by the experiments in Sector Zero, Adam does.
• She doesn't stop the Bottle Ship from reaching Federation space, Anthony does.
• She doesn't beat MB, the mastermind of the whole thing, Madeline and the marines do.
• She doesn't even get to kill Ridley, which would be a moment of triumph after her PTSD episode.

The plot introduces all of these problems for the protagonist to solve, then doesn't let her solve ANY of them.

 

[Quackula]

You can see the lack of agency on the part of Samus as soon as you realize that she doesn't actually solve any of the major problems on the bottle ship. She just kills some monsters, hits some switches, and everything that actually solves the problem is done by other characters.

• She doesn't stop the Deleter, MB does.
• She doesn't stop the threat posed by the experiments in Sector Zero, Adam does.
• She doesn't stop the Bottle Ship from reaching Federation space, Anthony does.
• She doesn't beat MB, the mastermind of the whole thing, Madeline and the marines do.
• She doesn't even get to kill Ridley, which would be a moment of triumph after her PTSD episode.

The plot introduces all of these problems for the protagonist to solve, then doesn't let her solve ANY of them.

Honestly makes me wonder if the story was actually originally written for something else.

She's like Vaan in Final Fantasy XII

 

[Ninjimbo]

If only more videogames got their stories analyzed like Other M. Somebody would have probably won a Pulitzer by now.

 

[Astral/H3X]

Saw that earlier people were saying that Fusion "planted the seeds" for Other M being terrible. THAT game actually did "authorized upgrades" well (with the minor conspiracy sort of deal towards the end, and the data for upgrades not being ready until they finished "programming them" or whatever), and in Fusion, Adam actually sounded like a cool guy. It seemed more like she just thought back to a leader who had done his job well, and did the honorable thing, and then happened to name the computer after him, which of course reminded her of him whenever the computer seemed less than human.

IOW; Fusion portrayed Adam as a respected friend and mentor, rather than asshole who she follows around like a puppy.

As for her being suicidal at the end (wanting to destroy the station) I felt that was her being more pissed and not thinking clearly than anything; she knew there was a galactic threat, knew that the Federation wasn't treating it properly, and that they were trying to put her in time out while they screwed up. She wasn't thinking clear, and rushed to the first "solution". Adam just needed to point out a much smarter one.

I'm not someone who just jumped on the Other M "hatewagon". I actually was excited for Other M and didn't visit the internet for a while to find it's opinion on it. I came to the shitty story conclusion myself. I knew it was too linear, and too... just not Metroid.
That said, I find Fusion to be a great game. It was linear in knowing that you had an idea of where to go. That didn't mean you walked down a hallway till you got to the glowing point. Even Super Metroid was "linear" in a sense, you just didn't know where the hell you were going. (To be fair, Fusion is a portable game. It wouldn't work as well wandering for hours not knowing where you were going on a busride or something like that).
So please, stop comparing Fusion to Other M. Fusion made a few compromises to fit the medium, and actually successfully (IMO) accomplished some things that they tried again in Other M. Other M however was just terribly directed, and had a terrible story and forgot what made Metroid Metroid.

 

[RagnarokX]

I laughed because your notion of criticism is so ridiculously narrow, and apparently circumscribed perfectly to avoid calling this game sexist. The text itself is sexist because of the scenarios it portrays and because of its treatment of a powerful female character. The concrete example is *the entire thing*. I don't even know where to begin with this bizarre idea you have about sexism in media and how it's eliminated by swapping genders around, as if the genders came out of a slot machine no human had control over.

As for Adam Having To Shoot Her, it's an example of Samus being punished for *finally*, after all the ridiculous shit she's been put through, acting on her own agency. And still, after being shot in the back by this guy she admired, having her power taken away from her BY FORCE this time, she still admires him enough to continue to be gaga over him in Fusion.

We obviously disagree on some fundamental things here, so I'm not sure there's much point in continuing. Your entire premise all but argues that sexism in media doesn't even exist (because any example of it could be handwaved away by genderswapping), and I'm not willing to meet you even half way on that premise.

You're misunderstanding the argument. If a person is treated a certain way because of their sex that's sexism. Genderswapping in a case of sexism would be impossible because the treatment is inherent to the specific genders. It's that Samus and Adam CAN be genderswapped that makes the sexism something external to the game's content.

If Adam was treating Samus a certain way because he was a man and because she was a woman, then you could not do the genderswap. It would fundamentally change their relationship, thus not keeping all other things constant.

 

[mantidor]

If only more videogames got their stories analyzed like Other M. Somebody would have probably won a Pulitzer by now.

It's kind of hard to ignore the story when its force fed into you every five minutes with a monologue cutscene.

People say "well its a video game, stories are never good!" but the game was built around the story, Sakamoto has said so in interviews, it was probably the most important part for him, the game has a freaking theater mode. All criticisms are more than justified.

 

[maharg]

You're misunderstanding the argument. If a person is treated a certain way because of their sex that's sexism. Genderswapping in a case of sexism would be impossible because the treatment is inherent to the specific genders. It's that Samus and Adam CAN be genderswapped that makes the sexism something external to the game's content.

If Adam was treating Samus a certain way because he was a man and because she was a woman, then you could not do the genderswap. It would fundamentally change their relationship, thus not keeping all other things constant.

No, I understand your argument and it's silly. The story does not exist in a genderless vacuum. Its players don't exist in a genderless vacuum. Its authors don't exist in a genderless vacuum. Stories can be sexist without using sexist terminology, which is the only way genderswapping can't unmake it by your standards. Adam doesn't have to call her a bitch or slut shame her for his treatment of her to exist within a misogynistic context. The story taken as a whole is essentially *about* the deconstruction and elimination of the power of one of the few female protagonists action video games even have.

 

[sonicmj1]

You're misunderstanding the argument. If a person is treated a certain way because of their sex that's sexism. Genderswapping in a case of sexism would be impossible because the treatment is inherent to the specific genders. It's that Samus and Adam CAN be genderswapped that makes the sexism something external to the game's content.

If Adam was treating Samus a certain way because he was a man and because she was a woman, then you could not do the genderswap. It would fundamentally change their relationship, thus not keeping all other things constant.

I think you misunderstand the argument being posed by the other side.

It's not that Samus is sexist. It's not that Adam is sexist. It's that the idealization of the abusive relationship at the heart of the story is sexist.

 

[Ninjimbo]

It's kind of hard to ignore the story when its force fed into you every five minutes with a monologue cutscene.

People say "well its a video game, stories are never good!" but the game was built around the story, Sakamoto has said so in interviews, it was probably the most important part for him, the game has a freaking theater mode. All criticisms are more than justified.

I'm not against the criticism; in fact, I welcome it. It's the only way stories in games are ever going to improve.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

You're misunderstanding the argument. If a person is treated a certain way because of their sex that's sexism. Genderswapping in a case of sexism would be impossible because the treatment is inherent to the specific genders. It's that Samus and Adam CAN be genderswapped that makes the sexism something external to the game's content.

If Adam was treating Samus a certain way because he was a man and because she was a woman, then you could not do the genderswap. It would fundamentally change their relationship, thus not keeping all other things constant.

You seem to be arguing from an in-universe perspective (that Other M can't be sexist because the characters themselves don't have sexist views) where every other person in this thread is arguing from an out-of-universe perspective (that the implications created by this specific combination of characters and plot points make Other M sexist).

 

[AniHawk]

1. Heavy Rain's hilarious awful plot? Compared to what typical video games or the entire selection of Netflix movies? Hyperbole much.

Spoiler

one day, ethan's twelve year old son wants a balloon from the world's most terrifying mall clown (which i guess is a common thing) and wanders off while ethan tries to figure out where he put his money and then winds up crossing a street and getting killed by a car that ethan took the brunt of the damage from.

this means he is a terrible father, and his wife gets custody of the other son and because ethan is a terrible father for trying to save his other kid's life, some guy tries to kill his current son. ethan starts to black out and display signs of having been the same serial killer who has been murdering children because of reasons.

the guy who is the killer and we don't know that yet goes around collecting the evidence and then he decides to bring one of the parents whose kid he killed along for the ride because why not, and winds up going on a killing spree in a mansion for some reason because he's super methodical and no one could trace that back to him and he also wonders what could be bothering that lady whose kid he killed and tries to talk her back into staying with him.

meanwhile some girl who has no relation to the plot gets naked for the player as well as bad guys and then is surprised to learn that the mom of the serial killer is actually the serial killer's mother.

there's also a guy who's qualified to solve this case, and he goes around collecting information with the world's most unhinged cop who beats up a psychiatrist who doesn't tell him the information until after he gets beaten up. his name is naman jaden and he doesn't afraid of anything and he's actually the best thing about the game.

 

[Meccanical]

People are defending Heavy Rain's plot?

This thread gets better and better.

 

[mantidor]

I'm not against the criticism; in fact, I welcome it. It's the only way stories in games are ever going to improve.

Agreed, and I think games have improved a lot, the "video game stories are crap" meme is fading, so it's really sad to see what happened with Other M, even other Metroid games do story better.

People are very passionate about the hate, but it is Metroid, a beloved franchise of what are considered the best games ever made, of course people are going to scream bloody murder, if it wasn't a Metroid game it would have been a very unremarkable game.

 

[xandaca]

I didn't mind this game too much, the old school feel was fun and while the controls weren't exactly intuitive, the delay in switching from the fast-firing beam to more powerful missiles (not to mention your immobility while using them) added a neat, if contrived, tactical element to the gameplay. The colour-rich graphics were splendid, even if some of the character models were distinctly less so. There was plenty wrong with the game, but I'd still like to see a sequel (had sales made it even a remotely feasible possibility) to build on the elements that worked. As for the story and characterisation, it was certainly a mess but I think its central themes - surrogacy and guilt - made it interesting enough. I even wrote an analysis of the plot a while back on my blog, which I very rarely, if ever, update anymore for those who think I'm spamming.

 

[RagnarokX]

No, I understand your argument and it's silly. The story does not exist in a genderless vacuum. Its players don't exist in a genderless vacuum. Its authors don't exist in a genderless vacuum. Stories can be sexist without using sexist terminology, which is the only way genderswapping can't unmake it by your standards. Adam doesn't have to call her a bitch or slut shame her for his treatment of her to exist within a misogynistic context. The story taken as a whole is essentially *about* the deconstruction and elimination of the power of one of the few female protagonists action video games even have.

There doesn't have to be sexist terminology. The male has to treat the female character the way he does because of sex. A strong female character can choose to follow the orders of a male CO if the situation demands it; this relationship is not inherently sexist. Samus is very powerful in the game. She weakens herself for the sake of the safety of Adam's crew, but even with most of her powers tied behind her back she's still the most powerful force on the ship. She could have easily done what she wanted with her power, but she's civil.

 

[Beermeister]

i'd say it deserves better/more respect

No. Worst Metroid game, ever.

 

[SmithnCo]

Please don't defend Heavy Rain. It doesn't have to be this way.

 

[Meccanical]

Please don't defend Heavy Rain. It doesn't have to be this way.

We have to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

 

[Branduil]

Spoiler

one day, ethan's twelve year old son wants a balloon from the world's most terrifying mall clown (which i guess is a common thing) and wanders off while ethan tries to figure out where he put his money and then winds up crossing a street and getting killed by a car that ethan took the brunt of the damage from.

this means he is a terrible father, and his wife gets custody of the other son and because ethan is a terrible father for trying to save his other kid's life, some guy tries to kill his current son. ethan starts to black out and display signs of having been the same serial killer who has been murdering children because of reasons.

the guy who is the killer and we don't know that yet goes around collecting the evidence and then he decides to bring one of the parents whose kid he killed along for the ride because why not, and winds up going on a killing spree in a mansion for some reason because he's super methodical and no one could trace that back to him and he also wonders what could be bothering that lady whose kid he killed and tries to talk her back into staying with him.

meanwhile some girl who has no relation to the plot gets naked for the player as well as bad guys and then is surprised to learn that the mom of the serial killer is actually the serial killer's mother.

there's also a guy who's qualified to solve this case, and he goes around collecting information with the world's most unhinged cop by beating up a psychiatrist who doesn't tell him the information until after he gets beaten up. his name is naman jaden and he doesn't afraid of anything and he's actually the best thing about the game.

Well at least something good came out of this thread lol.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Spoiler

one day, ethan's twelve year old son wants a balloon from the world's most terrifying mall clown (which i guess is a common thing) and wanders off while ethan tries to figure out where he put his money and then winds up crossing a street and getting killed by a car that ethan took the brunt of the damage from.

this means he is a terrible father, and his wife gets custody of the other son and because ethan is a terrible father for trying to save his other kid's life, some guy tries to kill his current son. ethan starts to black out and display signs of having been the same serial killer who has been murdering children because of reasons.

the guy who is the killer and we don't know that yet goes around collecting the evidence and then he decides to bring one of the parents whose kid he killed along for the ride because why not, and winds up going on a killing spree in a mansion for some reason because he's super methodical and no one could trace that back to him and he also wonders what could be bothering that lady whose kid he killed and tries to talk her back into staying with him.

meanwhile some girl who has no relation to the plot gets naked for the player as well as bad guys and then is surprised to learn that the mom of the serial killer is actually the serial killer's mother.

there's also a guy who's qualified to solve this case, and he goes around collecting information with the world's most unhinged cop by beating up a psychiatrist who doesn't tell him the information until after he gets beaten up. his name is naman jaden and he doesn't afraid of anything and he's actually the best thing about the game.

Do Beyond Good and Evil next.

 

[AniHawk]

Do Beyond Good and Evil next.

Spoiler

jade is a surrogate mother to a lot of orphaned children on hillys. after an alien attack on the island she lives and protects, she ventures into the city, and is recruited to do some undercover journalism using her skills with a camera and a bowstaff. meanwhile, her best friend and the children she is responsible for are abducted. it's up to jade to uncover the conspiracy behind the government of hillys and save the people she loves.

 

[rekameohs]

Spoiler

jade is a surrogate mother to a lot of orphaned children on hillys. after an alien attack on the island she lives and protects, she ventures into the city, and is recruited to do some undercover journalism using her skills of with a camera and a bowstaff. meanwhile, her best friend and the children she is responsible for are abducted. it's up to jade to uncover the conspiracy behind the government of hillys and save the people she loves.

Do Metroid Other M next

Spoiler

;P

 

[AniHawk]

Do Metroid Other M next

Spoiler

;P

Spoiler

the skip button doesn't work.

 

[Fandangox]

Spoiler

the skip button doesn't work.

Bravo.

 

[Shaanyboi]

It deserved to be made by people who are actually competent in game design and writing.

It deserves all the criticism it got.

Agreed. It took gaming's first real badass heroine, and made her a whimpering submissive child. And that's not limited to the Ridley scene.

 

[televator]

Look at this. Not only is quite a bit of this against the rules, but it's exactly what this topic is talking about. People are dismissing the game for some pretty damn stupid reasons, and you're only making it painfully obvious that he has a point.

No, you look. He doesn't have a point. A game with crappy writing, sub-par mechanics, bland visuals, that also tears down a long beloved character, will get whatever respect it gets - which not surprisingly is none to little by many gamers. Of course, all of the failings of Other M (I even refuse to call it a Metroid game) have been painfully discussed at length. It has been done so much for so long that I now usually just resort to the short hand of calling it a crap game every time someone thinks they've got some new point about it that will make history be kind to Other M.

 

[Kontergurke]

To anyone calling MOM a shitty game with no redeeming qualities whatsoever:

How do you explain that some people had fun with the game and even played through it several times?

a. People claiming to have fun with the game are just lying
b. Those people are just stupid and I will from now on ignore everything else these people say
c. Those people are self-delusional/crazy and they actually don't realize they didn't like it
d. Nobody would have liked this game if it didn't have the Metroid name/Samus in it
e. While the game is flawed, there obviously must be some good things about it or else no one would be able to have fun with it

If every hater would pick option e as their answer, meaningful discussions could take place that could be beneficial for anyone involved.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

How do you explain that some people had fun with the game and even played through it several times?

People on GAF enjoyed Sonic 2006, such as Anth0ny.

 

[Kontergurke]

People on GAF enjoyed Sonic 2006, such as Anth0ny.

I see. Did people ask why he had fun with it, and did an actual discussion about the game take place?
Or was his notion of having fun dismissed immediately because lol, it's Sonic 2006, the game has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and Anthony must be

a. lying
b. stupid
c. crazy
d. a Sonic fanboy

If someone takes this the wrong way, let me explain.
A game may have flaws and can still be enjoyed.
If there are people having fun with a game like Sonic 2006, which from any reports I've seen, has lots of bugs, glitches and technical shortcomings (long loadtimes), then surely a game like MOM could be enjoyed as well.

I think discussions would be more interesting if people would not immediately dismiss other people's opinions just because they don't allign with their own.

 

[Toa TAK]

Spoiler

the skip button doesn't work.

Beautiful.

 

[PKrockin]

I see. Did people ask why he had fun with it, and did an actual discussion about the game take place?
Or was his notion of having fun dismissed immediately because lol, it's Sonic 2006, the game has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and Anthony must be

I have a problem with your use of the word "redeeming", because that would mean that the good qualities balance out or outweigh the bad qualities. Even though I liked the Mach Speed sections, that's certainly not the case when it comes to Sonic 2006.

 

[Kontergurke]

I have a problem with your use of the word "redeeming", because that would mean that the good qualities balance out or outweigh the bad qualities. Even though I liked the Mach Speed sections, that's certainly not the case when it comes to Sonic 2006.

I think "redeeming" is fine because weighing all positive qualities against the negatives is still a matter of opinion. For example, there is no objective way to meassure "the story in this game is soo bad that nothing else the game has might make up for it".

Obviously, for someone like Anth0ny, the few positive qualities Sonic 2006 might have, were enough to redeem itself from being unplayable.

But maybe you're right, and we should first try to list the positive and negative qualities and then judge for ourselves if the positive ones outweigh (redeem) the bad ones.

Edit: I just looked up the meanings of redeeming and one of those says:
To restore the reputation or honour of oneself or something.
I think, if a game was thought of to be absolute shit, and then we find a single positive quality, that quality would let the game redeem itself in the sense that it's not considered complete shit anymore, but mostly shitty with one good aspect.

 

[rekameohs]

d. Nobody would have liked this game if it didn't have the Metroid name/Samus in it

I think this could be a reasonable assumption.

But really it just boils down to opinion. If you liked the game, more power to you, but I definitely hated it.

 

[sonicmj1]

I think this could be a reasonable assumption.

But really it just boils down to opinion. If you liked the game, more power to you, but I definitely hated it.

Maybe there's something we can talk about besides "Should we like it?" or "Should we hate it?" If we look more at the why (in a serious way), and not just at the binary "awesome/sucks" of quality, we can learn why other people feel the way they do, we can appreciate the game for what it does well, and we can learn from the mistakes it made.

An article that helped me think about this is about movies, and is in all caps, but Film Crit Hulk makes good points about how limiting our conversations about this stuff can get.

All caps warning, beware.

HULK UNDERSTAND THAT MANY PEOPLE ONLY SEE MOVIES AS PRODUCTS THAT ARE EITHER WORTH THEIR TIME OR NOT WORTH IT. HULK TOTALLY GET THAT. BUT WHY, WHEN WE'VE ACTUALLY SEEN THE MOVIE, IS THE ACTUAL DIALOGUE SO WRAPPED UP IN THE SAME CONVERSATION OF ITS "WORTH?" IS IT THE BEST MOVIE OF THE YEAR OR THE SECOND BEST? SHOULD IT GET NOMINATED? WILL IT GET SNUBBED?

WHY THE FLIPPIN' FUCK DO WE CARE? HOW ARE THESE QUESTIONS RELEVANT TO WHY YOU ACTUALLY LIKE IT? WHAT ABOUT IT BEING "THE BEST" MADE YOU CONNECT WITH IT? WORTH IS BASICALLY MEANINGLESS WHEN COMPARED WITH OUR PERSONAL CONNECTIONS AND THE IDEAS BEHIND THEM. ... HULK NOT IMPLYING THE CONVERSATION HAS TO BE ACADEMIC, BUT IT CAN CERTAINLY BE MORE INTERESTING. (5) MUCH LIKE THE CLICHED ZEN MASTER ADAGE OF WHETHER IT IS THE FLAG OR WIND WHICH IS MOVING, IT IS MORE IMPORTANT THAT OUR MINDS ARE MOVING.

Lets try and be better people.

 

[Lijik]

I can recognize why other people might like aspects of Other M, I dont see why that means i cant say the game has no redeeming qualities to me personally (although i do think it does a few things well, im just making a point here)

Although I do wish the "I liked/dont like something, so Im going to come up with some weird psychoanalysis as to why people feel the opposite not based in any reality and then paint them all with that brush" line of thinking would stop. You see it quite a bit on gaf. Its always hilarious because generally those types of posts never really explain their thoughts and instead focus on poorly explaining everybody elses.

 

[Htown]

To anyone calling MOM a shitty game with no redeeming qualities whatsoever:

How do you explain that some people had fun with the game and even played through it several times?

a. People claiming to have fun with the game are just lying
b. Those people are just stupid and I will from now on ignore everything else these people say
c. Those people are self-delusional/crazy and they actually don't realize they didn't like it
d. Nobody would have liked this game if it didn't have the Metroid name/Samus in it
e. While the game is flawed, there obviously must be some good things about it or else no one would be able to have fun with it

If every hater would pick option e as their answer, meaningful discussions could take place that could be beneficial for anyone involved.

Of course there are some good things about it. For one, it looks fairly nice from a technical perspective. It's also nice that Samus moves quickly again.

Doesn't mean it's a good game.

Also, the fact that people think a game that you like is shitty is an attack on the game, not a personal attack on you.

 

[vagabondarts]

This is one of my favorite Metroid games of all time. Been with the series since NES.

Yeah, there's annoying cutscenes and stuff, but the gameplay for the most part is awesome.
Better than a healthy percentage of games I've played.

I understand some of the hate, but most of it is a bunch of people up in arms because a woman takes orders from a man.

 

[Femmeworth]

Maybe there's something we can talk about besides "Should we like it?" or "Should we hate it?" If we look more at the why (in a serious way), and not just at the binary "awesome/sucks" of quality, we can learn why other people feel the way they do, we can appreciate the game for what it does well, and we can learn from the mistakes it made.

An article that helped me think about this is about movies, and is in all caps, but Film Crit Hulk makes good points about how limiting our conversations about this stuff can get.

All caps warning, beware.



Lets try and be better people.

That article was quite the read, opened my eyes a bit.

 

[Dave Meltzer]

To anyone calling MOM a shitty game with no redeeming qualities whatsoever:

How do you explain that some people had fun with the game and even played through it several times?

a. People claiming to have fun with the game are just lying
b. Those people are just stupid and I will from now on ignore everything else these people say
c. Those people are self-delusional/crazy and they actually don't realize they didn't like it
d. Nobody would have liked this game if it didn't have the Metroid name/Samus in it
e. While the game is flawed, there obviously must be some good things about it or else no one would be able to have fun with it

If every hater would pick option e as their answer, meaningful discussions could take place that could be beneficial for anyone involved.

Some people like scat sex.

 

[grandjedi6]

How do you explain that some people had fun with the game and even played through it several times?

Everyone has different tastes

 

[WrenchNinja]

It does nothing well.

 

[L00P]

Liked how badass Samus can be while playing, dodging like a ninja and sticking her cannon inside things and blowing the crap out of them

Such a shame that the story and cut scenes made her appear like such a wimp. Usually characters do lots of awesome shit during cut scenes that are impossible compared to what players can actually do in the game itself. But nope, not other m. In other metroid games, you really wouldn't want to go exploring in super-heated places until you get the varia suit. But nope, not other m

I mean seriously, how hard is it to stick some sort of reasonable explanation as to why Samus didn't use her high-temp shielding? They could have just said that her suit malfunctioned at one point and I'd be fine with that. Metroid Prime did it, and it's still pretty stupid how she lost all her shit because of some electrical current, but it beats Samus being a dumbass because any objections adam the baby confession time

 

[flattie]

Other M got a lot of things wrong for me and it I find it hard to believe this game took 3 years to develop when looking at some aspects of it.

What it did get right (or so I felt), was the character model. The animation was slick and made Samus feel responsive and mobile. Her responses to the (admittedly limited) environments were fluid and peppered with nice transition animations. This extended to the combat, which i felt was another plus of Other M.

Going forward, there is a nice core there to be brought to life in a more expansive world. Keep Other M's third person representation (using the analogue stick for control this time), but set it in environments as expansive and well designed as those in the Prime games. Bring back environmental puzzles. Use the gamepad as a scanning tool as in Zombi U and when not in use have a 3D map viewable at all times, allowing some NSMBU miiverse style comments and more importantly still, allowing annotations. Bring back interesting upgrades and make it worth doing the puzzles again.

Metroid could be made to be definitive on the Wii U by combining the best of Prime and Other M, while taking advantage of the new capabilities offered by the gamepad. Either way, I just pray the low sales of Other M haven't put this franchise on the back burner.

 

[CorvoSol]

Okay every one Nintendo made a metroid Manga. Of smaus telling her orgin story. If ya'll would please read that so you can see samus was not changed in Other M. In all the games befor this she was a voiceless character. Other M just gave her the voice She already had. So if you don't like Samus from other M the truth is you don't like SamusGet your Dicks out your ass and realize that Please!

I don't like samus getting my dick out of my ass

Which again, is why I don't think Fusion is at fault, because playing Fusion refutes the whole voiceless argument but ARGHNOWHYDIDYOUMAKEMEREADTHATCOMMENT

 

[Dantis]

I thought Other M was great, aside from the last boss. One of the few Wii exclusives I really enjoyed.

 

[maharg]

Which again, is why I don't think Fusion is at fault, because playing Fusion refutes the whole voiceless argument but ARGHNOWHYDIDYOUMAKEMEREADTHATCOMMENT

I'm still not really sure what you think I meant by this, because I didn't say Fusion is at fault at all. Fusion is just the first game to actually include any of the narrative that exposes that this is the way Sakamoto thought about Samus.