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A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD**
- Thread starter Pollux
- Start date
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At best, it'll be one, mayble one and a half year less of a wait between books 5 and 6 as the wait between books 4 and 5.
And if he's halfway through the series and doesn't know how the story should progress, that isn't exactly a great omen for the remainder of the story as far as speed goes. Which is also illustrated by the fact that in a full year after ADWD's release, only oen fifth to a quarter of the story had been written, unedited of course. At that pace it will take him till 2015 to write the book, edit it, etc. late 2015/early 2016 seems like a plausible release time for book 6, but unless he greatly increases his speed, it will definitely not be before that.
It'll be 2020 before we get to read the end of this story. Waiting just sucks is all.
But by all means, it's a compliment to GRRM's writing that people are anticipating his next book so much, so there's that.
Basileus777
Member
Hopefully they actually spend the needed time doing it for this book, instead of rushing out an unpolished product like ADWD.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Brandon Sanderson is a decent fantasy writer who completed the increasingly tedious Wheel of Time series after its original author died. It'd be like hiring Michael Bay to finish off a Nolan film. I think two more books are doable in GRRM's lifetime, but if the worst were to happen, there's definitely better options out there.
Basileus777
Member
GRRM himself has said that he is making up large parts of it as he goes. He has a vague plan and knows the destination he wants to reach, but the journey there he doesn't know until he starts writing it. Combine that with having to completely overhaul the structure of the series after scrapping the 5 year gap, and that accounts for what you see in the post ASOS books.
BertramCooper
Banned
Yes, because he has basically said as much. He doesn't do much planning.
Very well since you asked for it. Yes.
Edit: Disgregard this post, I'm a dummy.
Backwards Marathon
Member
Yep, you'll hear about her in ADWD. I thought she wouldn't survive being eaten and given to Stonheart either.
Basileus777
Member
She shows up in Jaime's chapter, the one where he's negotiating with Blackwoods.
That's disappointing IMO. I don't see the rest of the series living up to the first 3 books anyway.
Basileus777
Member
At least you didn't have to wait 6 years to find out.
You didn't ruin anything by seeing that spoiler either.
Cpt.Underpants
Member
You'd be surprised when you finish adwd
bengraven
Member
That's what most writers do in fact.
Basileus777
Member
There are plenty of outliners or writers who plan in more detail than GRRM.
When Martin dies, the best shot you're going to get for a conclusion to the series is via the television series.
Basileus777
Member
Daniel Abraham will save us.
Backwards Marathon
Member
He has told them the general details of how he plans to end the series correct?
Basileus777
Member
That probably depends on how many books the series needs to be finished.
bengraven
Member
Which is why I said "most".
I'm not an all inclusive type.
For an example of a brilliant writer with depth and great twists who is also making shit up as he goes along and yet ends up wrapping up plotlines well, see Locke and Key by Joe Hill.
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'd love to see a very in depth interview with Martin on his writing process for the series. It's clear he knows how things end, and where main characters like Dany end up. But he has said the road to getting there varies, and I'm curious how much so. For instance I really want to know whether the Aegon stuff was planned; looking back on that Varys/Illyrio conversation in GoT it's hard to see what role Aegon could have played in their plan. So was it a backup plan, just a case of unreliable narrators, etc?
We do know that initially ADWD was going to be the third novel's title, which lends credence to the idea he did plan that storyline quite early.
We do know that initially ADWD was going to be the third novel's title, which lends credence to the idea he did plan that storyline quite early.
The Meerense knot is a common writter trap: knowing how do you want to start and finish your tale, yet ignoring how to bridge the gap between the two.
Thing is, Martin painted himself into a corner when he made Daenerys ruler of Meeren. He knew that Daenerys would start as a helpless girl, that she will eventually become a Queen and that she will end up in Westeros kicking asses with her dragons. He thought it would be mightily cool for her to not only kick slaver ass, but also rule over them. Then latter he saw with horror that once she sat her ass on the Meeren's throne, there was no way that she could have decided to move over Westeros on a whim without:
a) restorting to a ridiculous deus ex machina (magic portal makes her shuddenly appear at Westeros, she gets kidnapped by ninjas, you know, the usual fantasy trope)
b) putting Daenerys out of character (yeah, you know, I care for you guys and you consider me your mother, but I will leave you all at the mercy of the slavers because destinity awaits me one bajillion kilometers from here)
c) making no fucking sense from a political POV (and now Meeren will try to conquer the kingdoms of Westeros, well, because)
That being said, yes, it is a pain in the ass, but if even I can think of ways to solve said knot, it must not be that much of an unsumourntable obstacle:
- The sons of the harpy kill Missandrei or other characer dear to Daenerys
- Daenerys retaliate in a utterly passionate, albeit retarded manner by demolishing a symbol of the Gyscarian culture such as the old pyramid of Ghis
- Said act releases a dormant plage (greyscale), or if you want to start pouring magic into the world, make it so the pyramid acted as a seal against some greater evil rather than a mere monument (bonus points for adding an appealing trait to the the Ghiscarian civilization)
- Daenerys would be then both materially and morally forced to lead a mass migration, Nymeria-style, in order to save her people. Cue epic travel to Westeros.
There, knot solved (on a fanfictionish, lame manner, I bet). It is understandable that Martin got muddled up with it, but I think that it was far from being the main obstacle to the plot's advancement.
I am seriously expecting a "director's cut" version that merges both AFFC and ADWD chapters and ends with the godawful decision of splitting the POVs according to geography rather than chronology.
The editing is atrocious indeed, things like leaving the Cersei's character arc for ADWD or the leaving resolution of the northern and Meerense battles to Winds of Winter are utterly retarded. Martin hasn't lost any writting skill, but sure he needs better editors.
"Japes" is used excessively throughout, but I think it's mostly found in Tyrion chapters so it makes sense.
BertramCooper
Banned
I think you can still do this without being completely out-of-character.
Daenerys is a girl. A proud Targaryen queen, but naive and hopelessly idealistic. What's more important to her: Ending slavery in a miserable land that she doesn't even want, or reclaiming her family's kingdom in Westeros?
Force her to answer this question, and then get her the hell out of Essos.
Actually, he did use words are wind a few times in ASOS and a lot in Feast too. Of course, that doesn't explain why every soul in Westeros and Essos knows the phrase in dance. I don't mind the usage though. Its just a more poetic way of saying actions speaks louder than words, particulary true in their crapsack world.
Jack Scofield
Member
I think part of the reason that Dany's storyline came to a grinding halt was because Martin needed to kill time so her dragons could grow. If she had sailed straight to Pentos instead of Slaver's Bay, she would have arrived in Westeros with dragons the size of small dogs.
I'm guessing that was partly the reason for the initial plan of AFFC beginning five years after ASOS.
I'm guessing that was partly the reason for the initial plan of AFFC beginning five years after ASOS.
PhoenixDark
Banned
Ikael: the main issue with the Knot was the issue of so many characters journeying to visit Dany, and how it would sequence. He needed certain characters (Quentyn) to arrive first when she was in Mereen, and had to set up a way to get her out of the city and still have a compelling narrative there during the siege. I didn't like most of Dany's chapters in ADWD but all of Barriston's were great, and Martin has said that character is who helped him cut the Knot.
So now you have Dany away from the city, presumably about to conquer another khalasar and march back to Mereen. Meanwhile Tyrion is outside the city gates and Victarion is about to break the naval siege in the city's bay. Perhaps Marwyn will show up after the battle.
I actually like the general story arc, although I don't like the painstaking way he got there; many of Dany's chapters were extremely repetitive and could have been cut, perhaps in half. Dany will likely go back to the city and save it from the siege, but not before the "pale horse" overtakes much of the slaves she freed. Perhaps you're right about the pyramid being breached, thus further releasing the disease. Either way I think Mereen is fucked, and Dany may have to scorch the city in order to stop the spread. Which of course would only serve to make her seem even more dangerous to Westerosi lords, and would be an interesting parallel to what happened with the Mad King; in that case Jaime saved the city by preventing a Targaryen from burning a city, whereas Dany will have saved a city by burning it.
So now you have Dany away from the city, presumably about to conquer another khalasar and march back to Mereen. Meanwhile Tyrion is outside the city gates and Victarion is about to break the naval siege in the city's bay. Perhaps Marwyn will show up after the battle.
I actually like the general story arc, although I don't like the painstaking way he got there; many of Dany's chapters were extremely repetitive and could have been cut, perhaps in half. Dany will likely go back to the city and save it from the siege, but not before the "pale horse" overtakes much of the slaves she freed. Perhaps you're right about the pyramid being breached, thus further releasing the disease. Either way I think Mereen is fucked, and Dany may have to scorch the city in order to stop the spread. Which of course would only serve to make her seem even more dangerous to Westerosi lords, and would be an interesting parallel to what happened with the Mad King; in that case Jaime saved the city by preventing a Targaryen from burning a city, whereas Dany will have saved a city by burning it.
'Dark wings, dark words' (important) versus 'Words are wind' (meaningless) versus 'You said the words' (important). There are a lot of catch-phrases, let alone the words of each house, that people trot out to either place importance on something, or to trivilaise it. I think he throws them in as markers.
Other, less melodramatic phrases come up a lot, like 'as worthless as nipples on a breastplate'. If you think of modern catch-phrases and memes it's only to be expected though, right?
I speak English as a second language, sometimes I wonder if those are real (medieval) English phases or completely made up by Martin himself.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I guess a lot of these release date speculators are probably new to the series since it hasn't even been 2 years since the last book yet.
After the waits for AFFC and ADWD I've ascended to a zen-like enlightened waiting plane where the release of another book is a purely abstract concept to be considered entirely without passion or attachment.
After the waits for AFFC and ADWD I've ascended to a zen-like enlightened waiting plane where the release of another book is a purely abstract concept to be considered entirely without passion or attachment.
Baraka in the White House
2-Terms of Kombat
And a Twitter feed bustling with shit no one cares about.
toddhunter
Member
Or the others advance from the North and start wiping everybody out. She hears about it and decides she and her dragons/armies are needed there more.
Pretty much. I'm not even going to bother wondering about release dates until at least 5 years have passed. If we get it any sooner than that, I will consider it a lucky surprise.
Perusing the comments of GRRM's latest post some more news tidbits for y'all:
- The Dunk & Egg tale that was supposed to be coming out with this anthology has apparently been pushed back until after TWOW publishes.
- The three currently published D&E tale's will be republished as a collection in 2014.
- The sample chapter in the paperback version of ADWD (coming on May 28) will be a new one, not the Arianne chapter released on his website recently.
Heh, no idea, but it's a nice thought.
Every man must die is certainly a feasible one. Nobody lives forever is the modern take. It's a given. Captain Obvious has been there throughout history, so I expect something like it has always been on the tips of people's tongues.
blainethemono
Member
The new Dunk & Egg that was supposed to be in Dangerous Women has been replaced by another prequel novella/short story though. So that's something at least
timetokill
Banned
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