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[James Sawyer Ford]

So assuming MS got back out in the lead with kits to developers, what will it matter if Orbis is more powerful? Or Durango is more powerful? Multiplatform games will look the fucking same on each platform yall, nothing will change.

Well that really depends.

Reason why 360 multiplats were better is because the 360 had a better GPU, and it was too difficult for devs to try and make use of CELL's unique architecture to make up the difference.

If the rumors now are to believed at face value, then Orbis has a 50% GPU advantage combined with 2X+ the bandwidth.

Sure, devs will probably target Durango's specs since they're lower, but the ease of porting them to the PS4 (similar graphics architectures) means that PS4 games will get a performance boost in terms of framerate, resolution, and effects without really trying.

 

[Karak]

I know you don't mean me but I just want to say that I actually think that the Durango goals are going to suit the market a lot better than Sony's. While I, and probably a lot of other gaffers, would like both consoles to be focused entirely on games the market has shifted far more toward apps, multitasking, and other features. MS has that market cornered. People are jumping to conclusions about Durango's power too quickly. Even if the assist modules don't make up the power gap with Orbis it's still a big jump, just a bit more modest. There are gaffers that say that they won't buy a console without party/cross game chat. You can bet that MS has some more features of that caliber planned that both gamers and casuals will love.

I hear you.
For me the moment any system played DVD movies I knew it was never going to be games only. It just doesn't make sense. And its great to want a games only system but one that also plays bluray, music, allows for chat, and all that...I mean 2 generations back that stuff was starting. So to suddenly pretend like its happening right now is to ignore the past 2 gens.

IMHO.
EDIT: Yes I totally understand that things can go too far. But for me it would require a TON of new options in addition to all the already available options for it to even encroach too far.
I do get that people feel that somehow there is NO compromise and a single penny spent on anything other than top of the line Uber tech means that the companies have stabbed gamers in the back. But I just don't seem to get that worked up about it myself.
Then again I thought both Kinect and Move were pretty cool additions and would be better with revisions...pretty much like almost every controller for systems as they move forward, or general tech, or even system apps and how they get better every gen.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

The question is who sent out dev units first? Sony or Microsoft?

Who will be this generation's "baseline" spec?

It's no secret every multiplatform game is developed on 360 and ported to PS3. The only people utilizing the extra horespower in PS3 are Sony first parties.

So assuming MS got back out in the lead with kits to developers, what will it matter if Orbis is more powerful? Or Durango is more powerful? Multiplatform games will look the fucking same on each platform yall, nothing will change.

All next-gen games will look great, period. It's going to be about services. Here is where MS could potentially fall flat on their face if they continue to lock down the network with more restrictions and/or over burden users with ads, or simply fall behind in what PSN has to offer.

Or both Sony & MS completely get side-swiped by Apple, which is what I personally anticipate.

Not sure it matters, Microsoft's development kits and tool chains will always be superior to Sony's(their a software company) just like the QUALITY(as in component and build quality) of Sony's hardware will be superior to Microsofts so due to "ease" of development most studios will most likely will lead on Xbox especially if their also making a PC version.

I hope XBox720<>PC will be even easier this time around for developers encouraging more cross pollination and reducing devl costs for studios.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

anybody remember the name of the user that said microsoft was giving developers everything they wanted?

 

[Reiko]

anybody remember the name of the user that said microsoft was giving developers everything they wanted?

ShockingAlberto

 

[Karak]

anybody remember the name of the user that said microsoft was giving developers everything they wanted?

ShockingAlberto or Alberto I think.

EDIT:
Beaten by a blind ninja.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

thank you sirs.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

ShockingAlberto

Yo.

They specifically solicited feedback from EA and Epic, both of which told them that they needed tons of RAM if they want third parties to be happy.

 

[CrunchyB]

R&D is by far the biggest expense in producing any chip set, followed by loss resulting from initially poor yield rates (which no one can get around, you obviously have a higher fail rate on a new product than an established one).

I'd say building the factory in the first place is the biggest expense. Only the really, really big guys can do this. Even companies like Intel have subcontractors to actually pull this off. The technology involved is mind-boggling.

The type of product a factory produces also changes during it's life cycle. They start out producing cutting-edge, high profit margin stuff like CPU cores and end up cranking out RAM and finally Flash memory until the ASML lithography machines are just too old to compete in the market.

You need to be a big player to enter the hardware market. You need to spend billions of dollars just to get your first chip out of the door unless you're willing to settle for lower-tech production.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

Both of the working titles sound like Tim & Eric skits.

 

[TheOddOne]

Epic, Dice, Crytek, 343, Rare, Lionhead, Remedy probably worked MS hard sometimes in late 2011.

Stinkles gave massages? Sexy.

 

[Clay Davis]

1080p dicks as far as the eye can see.

the last time I played some fat guy was squeezing his man boobs together and pretending to be a girl before waving his half erect dick in front of the camera.

it wasn't a good day. :/

 

[spwolf]

Not sure it matters, Microsoft's development kits and tool chains will always be superior to Sony's(their a software company) just like the QUALITY(as in component and build quality) of Sony's hardware will be superior to Microsofts so due to "ease" of development most studios will most likely will lead on Xbox especially if their also making a PC version.

I hope XBox720<>PC will be even easier this time around for developers encouraging more cross pollination and reducing devl costs for studios.

hm, not sure how do you define superior. It should be that way but nothing is guaranteed. If devs dont get access to low level libraries, development might be a lot easier but it wont be better .

same goes for sony and hardware... there is no guarantee that decisions they make end up being better in the long run... just see PS3 and 360. Sure 360 failed a lot but Sony spent more money for not much more.

This time around maybe both will make good choices, but slightly different directions.

 

[deanos]

deanos say something if you're alive.

hmm, now what?

 

[Lambda Pie]

trying to make sense of the latest happenings.

so, the specs on this thread might not be the final ones?

 

[Clay Davis]

hmm, now what?

explain why you quoted yourself from b3d and pretended it was some random dude? seriously, would like to know if you did and the reason/s why.

 

[Clay Davis]

trying to make sense of the latest happenings.

so, the specs on this thread might not be the final ones?

we don't know the final specs for either machine.

 

[paskowitz]

Any word on what USB protocol MS will be using. XID? HID? Something else?

 

[deanos]

explain why you quoted yourself from b3d and pretended it was some random dude? seriously, would like to know if you did and the reason/s why.

are you being serious? rofl.
my username on B3D is deanos.

 

[stryke]

trying to make sense of the latest happenings.

so, the specs on this thread might not be the final ones?

I don't understand why some people ask this question when it is so obvious that no one here can definitively confirm or deny.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

I wonder if they'll be using usb3 or something faster, since it's rumored for kinect 2 which needs the high bitrate. Would this also improve input lag at all?

 

[Clay Davis]

are you being serious? rofl.
my username on B3D is deanos.

twist

gaming noob claimed you were quoting yourself from b3d...so he was wrong?

 

[B.O.O.M]

That was simply unnecessary drama brought into this thread

 

[Clay Davis]

I wonder if they'll be using usb3 or something faster, since it's rumored for kinect 2 which needs the high bitrate. Would this also improve input lag at all?

wasn't there a rumour that it would have its own port? I vaguely remember reading something along those lines.

 

[deanos]

twist

gaming noob claimed you were quoting yourself from b3d...so he was wrong?

what? when? who? this is hilarious.

 

[Clay Davis]

what? when? who? this is hilarious.

read back a couple of pages.

 

[ZombieFred]

You could always PM one of the mods on there and do a comparison of the guys IP address history and see if it's Deanos. I am sure people have guys on there who are happy to message and post, just in case if false fluff is flying around. It's very easy to do with the tools they have. If no one does I am happy to email and contact and explain since I am sure they will be happy to say. Should be someone on here that's outside Deanos though just in case then at least Deanos is not going to look silly

 

[aganu]

You could always PM one of the mods on there and do a comparison of the guys IP address history and see if it's Deanos. I am sure people have guys on there who are happy to message and post, just in case if false fluff is flying around. It's very easy to do with the tools they have. If no one does I am happy to email and contact and explain since I am sure they will be happy to say. Should be someone on here that's outside Deanos though just in case then at least Deanos is not going to look silly

Or maybe we could stay on topic and leave these trivial things aside. It's meta off-topic. This is GAF, not B3D.

 

[jaosobno]

Just checked on B3D and there is "deanos" member.

So I guess someone was throwing around false accusations. Isn't that shit bannable?

 

[stryke]

Just checked on B3D and there is "deanos" member.

So I guess someone was throwing around false accusations. Isn't that shit bannable?

Pretty sure it was a joke. Although I too missed the punchline and was utterly confused.

 

[ZombieFred]

Or maybe we could stay on topic and leave these trivial things aside. It's meta off-topic. This is GAF, not B3D.

That is true but when someone makes an accustation on here that warrents and stirs other members then surely the best thing usually is to get that adressed if people are annoyed, no?

 

[jaosobno]

Pretty sure it was a joke. Although I too missed the punchline and was utterly confused.

Yep, nothing funny about that "joke".

 

[phosphor112]

It is interesting if it's true that the Durango can get up to 170GB/s. That would mean they could pretty much match Orbis on bandwidth and have almost 2.5GB more RAM.

You can't just add bandwidths. People keep doing that. That's not how it works.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

You can't just add bandwidths. People keep doing that. That's not how it works.

depends on how you're accessing the memory.

 

[Clay Davis]

Or maybe we could stay on topic and leave these trivial things aside. It's meta off-topic. This is GAF, not B3D.

true, but it's not acceptable to throw false accusations around. deanos has made some interesting, easy to follow / understand posts, not cool to try and discredit him, etc.

 

[bigtroyjon]

No but its a good confirmation of what we already knew. The jump to the full resolution system that was hampered by the older USB throughput.

What would be best if people didn't instantly assume that if something doesn't fit their perfect idea of what one of the consoles was going it doesn't instantly mean the world is over for their own hopes for a system.

Not meaning you by the way. Just...well everyone who does that.

OH and here is another vote for Lync.

It's not confirmation of anything. It's a fucking sales guy doing what sales guy do and trying to sell based on bullshit promises.

What would be best would be if people didn't assume every piece of crap information that came out wasn't automatically true. Like, people should just look at both the source and logic behind the info that comes out.

 

[iamvin22]

You can't just add bandwidths. People keep doing that. That's not how it works.

should be temp~bans for each concept haha. almost as bad as comparing pc parts to console parts.

 

[phosphor112]

depends on how you're accessing the memory.

If that eSRAM is the backbuffer than the 107GB/s is all you're getting.

 

[deanos]

amazing how people here just believed him. very disappointing.

 

[iamvin22]

If that eSRAM is the backbuffer than the 107GB/s is all you're getting.

dont bother explaining. there is way to much wishful thinking and personal investment in this tread.

 

[aganu]

That is true but when someone makes an accustation on here that warrents and stirs other members then surely the best thing usually is to get that adressed if people are annoyed, no?

true, but it's not acceptable to throw false accusations around. deanos has made some interesting, easy to follow / understand posts, not cool to try and discredit him, etc.

I think you both have a point. Maybe gaming_noob, the member who started this, needs to explain his claim.

 

[Ashes]

amazing how people here just believed him. very disappointing.

I thought it was clear he was joking.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

It's not like no one knows how to create an awesome machine, it all comes down to bang for buck. What do you want to do, who do you want to sell it to, and how much are you going to sell it for?

The real engineering challenge comes from designing a powerful machine that is forward looking, versatile, and at the same time doesn't cost too much and scales well (for future manufacturing price reductions). That's a lot more complex than just choosing the best components for your budget and putting them in the same box.

If they can sort the bandwidth situation out (and they obviously think they can, otherwise they wouldn't go with that solution), I really believe all the extra RAM will pay off in terms of the spectrum of experiences, both gaming and otherwise, that will feel at home on Durango.

 

[deanos]

I thought it was clear he was joking.

 

[phosphor112]

I thought it was clear he was joking.

It really wasn't. I thought he was, but 2 posts later, the damage was already done, and everyone was jumping on board trying to discredit everything deanos has ever said.
EDIT: See? ^^

 

[Ashes]

It's not even the same username though...
Meh, it's silly if you thought it was for real, or if the accuser himself thought he was onto something.

 

[phosphor112]

It's not even the same username though...
Meh, it's silly if you thought it was for real, or if the accuser himself thought he was onto something.

Not everyone uses the same username from board to board.

 

[Ashes]

So believe on the loosest conjecture then... Don't let me stop you... Apt thread..

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

It really wasn't. I thought he was, but 2 posts later, the damage was already done, and everyone was jumping on board trying to discredit everything deanos has ever said.
EDIT: See? ^^

Just for the record, not everyone. There were some people, including myself, who questioned gaming_noob's proclamation.

 

[TheOddOne]

It really wasn't. I thought he was, but 2 posts later, the damage was already done, and everyone was jumping on board trying to discredit everything deanos has ever said.
EDIT: See? ^^

To be fair, he discredits himself with posts asking to ban people that he doesn't agree with, wizard jizz jokes and cherry picking post he feels are in line with his preferences. Hardly a balanced person that looks at all the info.