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[ThatsMytrunks]

I was peeved at Sony for removing PS2 BC but honestly how often do you play old games.

Often. I have a BC PS3, I play PS2 games on it more than PS3 games.

 

[Mully]

No doubt, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that a new console would be able to play the previous generations titles (outside of a change to the delivery mechanism).

If you're willing to settle for less, and don't think you deserve better, then great!

It's not settling for less. You're just making the ability to play old games on a newer console a bigger deal than it is. If you're that inclined on playing an old game, play it on the old console or on PC.

 

[Shrennin]

Ironically most of my PS3 games are HD ports/remakes.

Same. :/

 

[Tain]

No doubt, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that a new console would be able to play the previous generations titles (outside of a change to the delivery mechanism).

If you're willing to settle for less, and don't think you deserve better, then great!

The ones that are relying on BC's often awkward emulation are the ones that are settling.

 

[Lime]

One of the main reasons why PC is superior to all other gaming platforms.

 

[Pimpbaa]

emulation is never as good as running on real hardware.

The PS2 ran PS1 games perfectly (except for a few cases). Also the PSP games available for download on the Vita run far better than they did on the original PSP hardware.

 

[Tain]

In the PS2's case, wasn't that due to hardware? Which is a fine way to handle it, just not something I expect to see next generation.

Vita's backwards compatibility was legitimately surprising to me. Completely embarrasses the PS3 and 360, despite the simpler hardware.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Backwards compatibility would be amazing if it worked on every game with complete compatibility. I bought my 360 to play a lot of the Xbox 1 games I missed. I was met with..

Framebuffer problems in Halo 2, where ghost images stay on the screen until you exit out and reload the map.

Crippling slowdown in Jet Set Radio Future.

In Forza, frequent crashing, considerable slowdown, music that ocasionally cuts to ear-splititng static, and the custom decal system was completely fucked (corrupted textures). It also likes to lock up on the main menu if you don't press start fast enough.

Texture problems in Fable, with the game guaranteed to crash after a couple of hours.

FMV problems universally across all Xbox games (stuttery video).

And those are just the games I played. If you thumb through the backwards compatibility comparison chart, a number of games listed as "supported" cannot actually be completed because something makes the game crash midway through.

I totally "get" why Microsoft abandoned supporting B/C, but it doesn't mean I have to like it and I'm still pretty pissed off that it's been left like this. Especially when you consider the proliferation of HD re-releases; rather than have me play last-gen's games, it's clear that companies would rather I kick them another $30-$40+ for something I already own.

And fuck that.

 

[Dizzan]

Haha is this directed at me

I don't deny it is a cool feature but people that scream "No BC, no Purchase" are really going to miss out on a lot of awesome new games and to be honest, I don't really believe they think that way.

I think it will become less relevant anyway once streaming becomes more mainstream. Old games are perfect for streaming services like Onlive and Gakai (which Im sure will be integrated into PS+ and XBOX Live will surely start doing it). Pardon my ignorance but wouldn't older games that are low res/low poly be well suited to streaming because it takes less data? (or are we just streaming the video and inputs??).

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

Haha is this directed at me

I don't deny it is a cool feature but people that scream "No BC, no Purchase" are really going to miss out on a lot of awesome new games and to be honest, I don't really believe they think that way.

I think it will become less relevant anyway once streaming becomes more mainstream. Old games are perfect for streaming services like Onlive and Gakai (which Im sure will be integrated into PS+ and XBOX Live will surely start doing it). Pardon my ignorance but wouldn't older games that are low res/low poly be well suited to streaming because it takes less data? (or are we just streaming the video and inputs??).

Gaikai is just video + inputs

 

[Clear]

When there's a direct through-line on the hardware (i.e. PS2's IOP being the PS1 CPU), and/or the emulation isn't too taxing, sure BC makes sense. But when you're new host platform is radically dissimilar, and the hardware you're simulating is complex and powerful...

If you're recompiling every executable, title-specific "remastering" is only the way to go.

 

[LeleSocho]

yes

 

[MegaKungFuRadio]

More amazing: What you can do with emulators and a reasonable PC. I popped Dragon Quest VIII into my PC after playing Ni no Kuni and was immediately slightly less impressed with Ni no Kuni.

 

[Eusis]

Really? Really?

It's a two generation old system. You get better video output with a Gamecube anyway.

The point of buying new systems is new games on that system. I like B/C but it has never been a deal break.

I imagine video output IS better on Wii U (or at least better than Wii), and they probably could've supported it via USB emulating the card/controller slots or so I'd hope. But as noted it's about 2 generations past and they didn't even put analog triggers on this (though they really should have) so I can't blame them too much.

 

[Mxrz]

Emulation takes the thunder out of BC. Being able to take old games and ramp the graphics up with higher FPS is generally better than console bc without any of the drawbacks. Its the next best thing to HD-remasters. Sometimes its even superior.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

Wii-U is more like Wii v1.5

The name alone is your first clue. But alas, this is a different discussion meant for another thread.

Oh my God. Too much bullshit in one post.

 

[Oemenia]

When there's a direct through-line on the hardware (i.e. PS2's IOP being the PS1 CPU), and/or the emulation isn't too taxing, sure BC makes sense. But when you're new host platform is radically dissimilar, and the hardware you're simulating is complex and powerful...

If you're recompiling every executable, title-specific "remastering" is only the way to go.

Especially since now BC can only be done through software, expecting the previous-gen is a big ask as even on the PC we are normally 2/3 generations behind.

Still, nothing saying it cant be done but it will require a lot of effort, something that might not be worth it for the most complex systems.

 

[IrishNinja]

im with OP! and all these anti-BC folk already got a thread, get off my lawn with your "WHO PLAYS OLD GAMES" nonsense, man you never hear that crap with movie buffs i bet

 

[Loxley]

 

[kpjolee]

There is nothing bad about having a BC, but at an expense of considerably higher cost and sacrificing what could be used for greater processing capability to achieve, that I do not want.

 

[quest]

There is nothing bad about having a BC, but at an expense of considerably higher cost and sacrificing what could be used for greater processing capability to achieve, that I do not want.

Damn it I was coming to post that. I agree 100% while nice it can have to high of a cost.

 

[Pachterballs]

I got more value out of HD remakes than BC.

just sayin'

 

[Currygan]

this is obviously a response to that terrible thread, but seriously, we shouldn't be even discussing this. BC is always a good thing

always

 

[IrishNinja]

I got more value out of HD remakes than BC.

just sayin'

for the first few years of my PS3, i played more PS2 games than anything (persona 4 was awesome), and bought more classics than HD remakes

just sayin'

 

[quest]

this is obviously a response to that terrible thread, but seriously, we shouldn't be even discussing this. BC is always a good thing

always

No it is not. In the case of the Wii and the Wii U. Would rather have updated components than BC. The Wii U is sporting a 20 year old CPU because of BC. On the PS3 the cost was just to high to justify it. In the case of the PS2,Vita and genesis sure the BC was a good thing there was no cost to it.

 

[Currygan]

No it is not. In the case of the Wii and the Wii U. Would rather have updated components than BC. The Wii U is sporting a 20 year old CPU because of BC. On the PS3 the cost was just to high to justify it. In the case of the PS2,Vita and genesis sure the BC was a good thing there was no cost to it.

are you sure those consoles are weaker than their counterparts because of it? Because I am not

 

[Htown]

I bought a used copy of Metroid Prime Trilogy online (for $50, a great price nowadays) but I got screwed because there were two small scratches that made Echoes completely unreadable and made Corruption die about halfway through. I was super pissed but gave it another shot on my Wii U and the disc worked without issue. I don't know why some of the games didn't work on my (launch) Wii because Prime 1 worked flawlessly but I am so happy that I can play the games on my U.

The Wii actually has some issues with reading dual layer discs sometimes. It's probably a slight flaw with the way the drive is constructed. It rarely comes up because there are only like ten Wii games that shipped on those discs.

 

[M3z_]

Having a PC is all the backwards compatibility I've needed over the years. It's cool knowing that anytime I feel compelled to go back and play an older game I can play it at a smooth framerate at a high resolution. Personally whatever extra cost BC adds to a system price would be price I rather have knocked off. Not saying that BC is factored into price, obviously Sony felt fine charging the exact same price for the PS3 when they removed it, but theoretically it is not worth pretty much any added cost to me.

 

[Clefargle]

The Wii u has potential to be the end all bc box, if they add gc and even figure out ds and 3ds emulation they could totally offer the complete library on the EShop, no other publisher has a library that extensive...

 

[Valnen]

As others have said, BC is nice, but not needed.

This was true before the digital age and digital libraries.

In the digital age though, BC is a necessity.

 

[DeviousAngel]

No GCN BC is part of why I'll never get a Wii-U. Voting with my wallet, etc.

We all know GCN will eventually make it to VC. It's just a matter of time.

 

[IrishNinja]

No it is not. In the case of the Wii and the Wii U. Would rather have updated components than BC. The Wii U is sporting a 20 year old CPU because of BC. On the PS3 the cost was just to high to justify it. In the case of the PS2,Vita and genesis sure the BC was a good thing there was no cost to it.

you can't seriously think the WU has cheaper parts because of BC, can you? cmon

We all know GCN will eventually make it to VC. It's just a matter of time.

i said this about GBA on 3DS, still no signs of it - also lack of analog triggers means certain titles are less likely

even then, licensed games don't make it, and some of the great 3rd party ones like REmake and twin snakes don't strike me as likely either

 

[blitzcloud]

you can't seriously think the WU has cheaper parts because of BC, can you? cmon

Ps4 having Ps3 BC would mean having to follow a similar architecture to be able to emulate it...

Do we want that?

 

[HolyBaikal]

Backwards compatibility is nothing.

We need a system that plays every single video game ever created.

Every single video game.

 

[blitzcloud]

Backwards compatibility is nothing.

We need a system that plays every single video game ever created.

Every single video game.

PC through emulation?

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

I got more value out of HD remakes than BC.

just sayin'

You get more value out of buying games you might already own?

 

[jimi_dini]

I was peeved at Sony for removing PS2 BC but honestly how often do you play old games.

Funny.
I'm just playing Hitman 2 from Hitman HD collection.

 

[Porcile]

I just bought Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn second-hand for £10 in near mint condition. I'm gonna play it on my Wii U. Backwards compatibility is massively important for me.

 

[pestul]

I wouldn't have purchased a Wii U at launch without Wii BC support. Absolutely love being able to catch up on the Wii library now.

 

[Mael]

You get more value out of buying games you might already own?

Well yeah he have 2 versions of the games!
He didn't say he was saving money or anything.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I was peeved at Sony for removing PS2 BC but honestly how often do you play old games.

The laser in my PS2 died - not untypical for Sony products, so if my PS3 had BC, I'd be playing a lot of PS2 games.

Considering how poorly today's consoles are build - BC should be a must.

 

[anotherVegan]

If I could get every retro game imaginable on my 3DS, that would be amazing.

 

[blitzcloud]

Funny.
I'm just playing Hitman 2 from Hitman HD collection.

Honestly. Hitman 2 in SD with the ps2 emulation would be terrible-looking in any TV nowadays

 

[Sentenza]

PC through emulation?

Well, we are not at that point yet, but it's definitely the closest thing to achieve the dream.

 

[LevityNYC]

Yep. I have a 60GB model PS3 (with upgraded HDD) and when it YLOD'd a few months ago, I sent it away for repair instead of getting a new one. Didn't want to give up playing my PS2 games with upscaling, wireless dualshock, and endless save memory.

same here. from my cold dead hands will they will have to drag my launch 60gb ps3 from me

 

[clear31]

So how much money does it save you on your electric bill

i was wondering the same thing, i mean maybe he was keeping his gamecube on 24/7

 

[Lain]

I love having just one system where I can play all of my old games!

Once my GameCube broke, I thought about getting another one to replace it, but then I remembered that my Wii can play GameCube games, so I didn't need to buy another console! It freed up room for my other current-gen systems that are also backwards compatible.

Plus it saves me quite a bit of money on my electric bill.

I also never owned an Xbox so playing some games that I missed out for that system on my 360 is great! I never knew there were so many amazing games for the original Xbox! I just wish that Microsoft made more games work on the 360. I play lots of old games over and over again because they're just so much fun to play, even after I've beaten it over and over again. There are just some games that I'll never get sick of.

Consolidating consoles so that you have all of your favorite games on one system is so ideal and convenient! I love playing Fifa '95 and Pong with my friends. Never gets old.

Preach it on!

BC is one of the few reasons to grab a system at launch for me, when the software always sucks and you have the best titles of the previous generation to play on it while waiting for the actually good new offerings to come out.

 

[GlamFM]

I don´t care for BC one bit. In fact I dont want MS or Sony to waste any money for BC in their new machines - spend the money on more ram or something.

My old consoles don´t stop working when the new ones come out - so if I really want to play an old game ( I don´t ) I still can.

When ever I plug one of my old consoles in out of nostalgia I am shocked ( SHOCKED! ) how bad the games look - almost unplayable.

The only old games I care for are from the 8/16Bit ara. My SNES is still doing it´s job.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I don´t care for BC one bit. In fact I dont want MS or Sony to waste any money for BC in their new machines - spend the money on more ram or something.

The cost of coding emulation divided by tens of millions of consoles is nothing. The cost of RAM is tens to hundreds of dollars per console.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Backwards compatibility would be amazing if it worked on every game with complete compatibility. I bought my 360 to play a lot of the Xbox 1 games I missed. I was met with..

Framebuffer problems in Halo 2, where ghost images stay on the screen until you exit out and reload the map.

Crippling slowdown in Jet Set Radio Future.

In Forza, frequent crashing, considerable slowdown, music that ocasionally cuts to ear-splititng static, and the custom decal system was completely fucked (corrupted textures). It also likes to lock up on the main menu if you don't press start fast enough.

Texture problems in Fable, with the game guaranteed to crash after a couple of hours.

FMV problems universally across all Xbox games (stuttery video).

And those are just the games I played. If you thumb through the backwards compatibility comparison chart, a number of games listed as "supported" cannot actually be completed because something makes the game crash midway through.

I totally "get" why Microsoft abandoned supporting B/C, but it doesn't mean I have to like it and I'm still pretty pissed off that it's been left like this. Especially when you consider the proliferation of HD re-releases; rather than have me play last-gen's games, it's clear that companies would rather I kick them another $30-$40+ for something I already own.

And fuck that.

Microsoft put together the emulation relatively late in the game, it wasn't planned out very far in advance. And they had to deal with emulating an Nvidia GPU on an ATI GPU. I suspect things may be better implemented this time around.