There Came An Echo (Kickstarter) - Feep, Ronald Jenkees,Wil Wheaton [Cash in da bank]

Feep said:
I'm facing a pretty uphill battle with this stuff, from a PR perspective.

Obviously, voice recognition will never be as accurate as a button press. However, the game isn't about doing things that you would *normally* do with buttons...you don't fire a bullet by saying something, you don't duck by saying something, you don't reload by saying something.

The whole conceit of the game is that you're a field commander, and you *would be doing these things with your voice*. You're not micromanaging your troops; the AI does that. And if the voice recognition system fails every now and then (4%), well, sometimes your soldiers don't hear you. It's a level of immersion I'm going for, while taking every care not to frustrate players by having the AI unable to do simple tasks for itself.

Edit: And of course, Ultron.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's where Lifeline fell flat. They tried to use voice recognition to replace a controller and forced you to order your brain dead AI partner to fire each shot, duck, reload, etc. Every time the mediocre recgonition failed resulted in your character taking damage or missing a target. When a game makes survival horror players long for the control scheme of Resident Evil 2 then you know they've done something very wrong.

Like I said, I'm really interested in this game. It seems like it's more about you as the player interacting with the characters in the game rather than directly controlling them. That plus the obvious tactical emphasis makes this look like a really great idea. I even like what they tried to do with Binary Domain, except for the fact that it didn't work very well.

BTW I loved Sequence.
 
I'm definitely going to back this, partially because giving sequence away was so awesome, and partially because sequence itself was so awesome. =D And partially because Feep's scribblenauts post was the reason I joined neogaf.
 
Pretty tempted to back this. The idea of being able to command troops around by voice pretty much makes my inner child cry tears of joy.
 
The idea of being able to customize voice commands to perform actions made me go ahead and pledge to the first kickstarter I've pledged to in months. I can't wait to see what happens when I yell at my squad mates with strings of expletives (of course triggered to specific commands), instead of facing the harsh reality of disconnect in X-Com when my elite Sniper Johnny Rico doesn't seem to listen to "GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THAT FUCKING SHOT YOU STUPID FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!"
 
Uh, I wanted to give 100 bucks to the Cyanide & Happiness shorts, but I guess I'll have to split now. Really looking forward to it, Sequence was great.
 
So I went and checked my music library, and found out I have some Ronald Jenkees too. I just never remember his name. Well dammit, there goes my money.
 
A random thought which was in the back of my mind when I first saw the prototype video but has now crystallised into something more substantial. I'm afraid there's going to be a touch of fantasy-game-design here, and it's probably a significant sign that I should never be let anywhere near designing a game ever again!

One of the things I've always been curious about is the idea of a game that has absolutely *no* fourth wall; that is, the player *is* a guy sitting at a computer screen, and the interface the player's using makes perfect sense. Hacking games in particular do that, of course, but they're few and far between! Command & Conquer - the original - sort of does that but doesn't commit to it, with the theming that you're not installing "Command & Conquer", you're installing the "EVA Software", which then connects you to lots of TV channels before choosing to interface with one or other of the two subliminal broadcasts behind the scenes.

An aside, and a spoiler for a theme park ride (which I think no longer exists, but I'll play it safe): Star Trek: The Experience in Las Vegas. First paragraph brief outline, second paragraph detailed:

Theme park attractions are generally good at handling the fourth wall; give the riders a reason to be there (Going on Sallah's Temple Tours in Indiana Jones Adventure: Temple of the Forbidden Eye; touring the Daily Bugle offices then JJJ sending you out in a SCOOP vehicle in the absence of any reporters onsite in Spiderman, attending a presentation by Cyberdyne in T2-3D where they demonstrate their new T-70 robot soldiers), but Star Trek goes one further, by making the *story* of the ride that you are in Las Vegas going on a Star Trek ride!

You go through the Trek Museum-themed queue, line up in front of doorways to the simulator, watch the safety video... and halfway through, the lights go out, wind gets up... and suddenly you're standing on a transporter pad. Then the experience starts proper; the storyline for the ride is outlined (One of you is Picard's ancestor, some Klingons have kidnapped you all into the future, the Enterprise intercepted the time beam thing, and now they need to get you all home). You get loaded into a shuttle craft, you do the motion simulator thing, finishing up with you landing in Las Vegas right next to the simulators you would have been riding on.


I've drifted away from my point. Significantly. My thought is this: this model is actually *very close* to the sort of game I've been wanting to see. The interface effectively treats you as a real character, sitting at your computer, watching progress, directing people as it goes.

I like that. A lot. However... it did start making me muse on the thoughts of a game that were to commit to the premise even more, restricting the information the player gets to what they could realistically access from their position at the computer. That's where the prototype comes in, since it struck me that if you were doing this for real, that's most likely to be the sort of interface you'd have; you'd work with simple floorplans, not awesome-looking isometric views. That went even further, when I started to think more... well, perhaps sometimes you'd have to guide your characters 'blind' towards a computer room where they could connect a device allowing you to hack in and download the latest floorplan. Maybe your characters could have head-mounted cameras as well so you could navigate until they've got that. Perhaps you could access a camera to get a direct view of a given region. Maybe that's how you'd scout for enemies.


It's all wishful thinking, of course; that's a much more ambitious project than this one! It's stuff I'd love to see a game tackle full-on, though. Maybe if you make a sequel (There Came An Echo Of An Echo?)...
 
I am quite impressed by how well the voice recognition stuff seems to work. I also realized selling that would be the hardest part of this.

I am a bit curious on how well it would take more subtlety similar commands, like if you call one guy Wang and one guy Yang for example, yet I can go about preventing that situation myself. :P

Backed.
 
and backed. sequence was great, though i never beat
the hidden final boss.
i have no rhythm, kinda suck at games, and couldnt master the changes in speed. i was pleased to have gotten that far though.
 
Midou said:
I am quite impressed by how well the voice recognition stuff seems to work. I also realized selling that would be the hardest part of this.

I am a bit curious on how well it would take more subtlety similar commands, like if you call one guy Wang and one guy Yang for example, yet I can go about preventing that situation myself. :P

Backed.
Click to expand...
I mean, obviously it would be more difficult to differentiate. The main units' names are designed to have little phonetic overlap...you can overwrite this, if you want to, I guess, but it might lower accuracy a bit.

You'll notice I'm using the phonetic alphabet, which I'll encourage players to do. It's very easy for the system to confuse "B", "C", "D", and "E", so I'll teach players the first six "letters": alpha, bravo, charlie, delta, echo, and foxtrot.

dave is ok said:
Will you be able to use objects on the map to direct them? Like 'take cover behind that vending machine?'
Click to expand...
No, this is a little too dicey. However, we'll be placing named nodes at any points that seem like reasonable cover points, so you can direct them there.

Edit: Dat 2nd 3k backer!
 
Feep said:
I mean, obviously it would be more difficult to differentiate. The main units' names are designed to have little phonetic overlap...you can overwrite this, if you want to, I guess, but it might lower accuracy a bit.

You'll notice I'm using the phonetic alphabet, which I'll encourage players to do. It's very easy for the system to confuse "B", "C", "D", and "E", so I'll teach players the first six "letters": alpha, bravo, charlie, delta, echo, and foxtrot.


No, this is a little too dicey. However, we'll be placing named nodes at any points that seem like reasonable cover points, so you can direct them there.

Edit: Dat 2nd 3k backer!
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's easy for people to confuse those letters over a microphone as well so it's hard to fault a computer for not being able consistently differentiate between them either.

Backed, BTW.

-Byshop
 
Feep said:
No, this is a little too dicey. However, we'll be placing named nodes at any points that seem like reasonable cover points, so you can direct them there.
Click to expand...

Interesting. So the nodes are all preset then? Any chance of being able to "look" at the map and set up your own nodes pre-mission? Or add a node on the fly to respond to a tactical situation?
 
RyanDG said:
Interesting. So the nodes are all preset then? Any chance of being able to "look" at the map and set up your own nodes pre-mission? Or add a node on the fly to respond to a tactical situation?
Click to expand...
"We" (as in, the program) can easily add or subtract nodes as necessary...we already do it, temporarily, in pathfinding calculations.

Predefined nodes...maybe. After all, it isn't just the node, but the underlying node connection graph that governs pathfinding, so it may be difficult without exposing all that to the player. But this is good stuff to play around with, *especially* in the mission where you choose where to lay down mines for future detonation...
 
mclem said:
A random thought which was in the back of my mind when I first saw the prototype video but has now crystallised into something more substantial. I'm afraid there's going to be a touch of fantasy-game-design here, and it's probably a significant sign that I should never be let anywhere near designing a game ever again!

One of the things I've always been curious about is the idea of a game that has absolutely *no* fourth wall; that is, the player *is* a guy sitting at a computer screen, and the interface the player's using makes perfect sense. Hacking games in particular do that, of course, but they're few and far between! Command & Conquer - the original - sort of does that but doesn't commit to it, with the theming that you're not installing "Command & Conquer", you're installing the "EVA Software", which then connects you to lots of TV channels before choosing to interface with one or other of the two subliminal broadcasts behind the scenes.
Click to expand...

Have you ever played Uplink? It's an older hacking game made by the people who would go on to make Defcon and Darwinia, where you're working through a remote desktop on another computer to protect your identity in case you screw up. There's no game over screen, because if you fail, your save (represented by the remote computer you were working on) gets wiped. Everything is handled through your computer interface. There's even an in-game IRC client. Here's some gameplay if you're curious.

Anyway, I got Sequence for free and enjoyed it, and this seems interesting. I'll definitely back this.
 

Link

There Came An Echo is a voice-controlled real-time strategy game (With custom word support and alternate input methods) from Iridium Studios (of Sequence fame) aka Feep.
They are currently looking for $90k and want to be done by mid-2014ish.
Watch the shameless plug video and let Will Wheaton voice-control you into pledging, in real time.

The game will be fully voice acted and the story will center heavily on the characters and their journey.

Story:
There Came an Echo might be confused for a standard military procedural, and considering the manner in which you interact with your units, that's understandable. However, most of the characters under your direct command have no prior military experience...they're learning as they go, and only your cool head and quick thinking is keeping them alive. The script is very firmly classified as science-fiction.

Corrin (played by Wil Wheaton) is a 31-year-old cryptographer and inventor of a very particular encryption algorithm...one that currently holds safe a shocking secret. His comfortable existence is interrupted by the enigmatic Val, who informs him that his life is in very imminent danger. His desperate attempts to uncover the truth are aided by a mercenary, Miranda; a vengeful young woman, Grace; and a mysterious British gentleman named Syll. The group is often at odds with one another, but eventually, they'll need to overcome their enmity to strike back at the forces who kill, indiscriminately and without mercy, for a chance to unravel the deepest mysteries of the cosmos.

The game takes place in the near future, and features some advanced technology: directed energy weaponry, personal energy fields, and various other accoutrements.

Some Questions Answered:
  • Q: Most games with voice control have been... taxing. What's different with this?
  • A: The game is currently sporting 91-96% accuracy depending on your accent and will allow you to set your own key words for phrases. With all the smartphone tech voice recognition has come a long way. Besides as a field commander, your orders aren't always heard exactly right.

  • Q: Do I have to use voice controls?
  • A: Nope, there will be other methods of input like keyboards and gamepads supported!

  • Q: How far is the actual game?
  • A: A ton of core elements, programming, and frameworks are done. This money is specifically focused on art resources and will help finalize the game.

Sample Art:
fdd3b545b6eb545161d1f2c026a1577d_large.png


ade8b5d42526e2ea3f6cef23e5154b62_large.png
 
Feep said:
For the record, yes, there will be a level in which your visual capabilities are jammed by an enemy, so you have to pull up blueprints and guide your units through a bit of a labyrinth situation...all audio. = D
Click to expand...

I am now sated.

Temporarily.
 
sonicmj1 said:
Have you ever played Uplink? It's an older hacking game made by the people who would go on to make Defcon and Darwinia, where you're working through a remote desktop on another computer to protect your identity in case you screw up. There's no game over screen, because if you fail, your save (represented by the remote computer you were working on) gets wiped. Everything is handled through your computer interface. There's even an in-game IRC client. Here's some gameplay if you're curious.
Click to expand...

That was actually one of the hacking games I had in mind when I mentioned that bit, although Uplink always struck me as slightly flawed in that I never saw any reason not to simply route whatever connection you're making through every single computer you already know!

(Other hacking games that I've encountered: Hacker and Hacker II, Satcom and Supercom, System 15000. I generally felt that System 15000 was the most interesting, though)
 
I need to figure out my finances for this month, but this project really has me interested. Hopefully I can spare $15 as this seems pretty innovative and seems like a good step forward in both how we interact with games and what we consider a game.

Also, as many people have said, I'd love to pay Feep back for Sequence. I just wish I wasn't a super financially burdened grad student...
 
It's cool. No worries = D

We just put up Update #3! It includes a new option at $60 (Digital Commentary Track), an option for a DRM-free version of the game upon release, and this video:

Command Aliasing
 
Is this the same Ronald Jenkees that looks somewhat like a guy with Down syndrome, but is an actual wizkid on the keyboards? That Ronald Jenkees? I had no idea he was into this kind of thing. I've followed him on youtube for years, and i'm still wondering if it's an act. The guy's fingers are on fire.

EDIT: i guess so
 
Feep said:
I just aliased "Ban that motherfucker" to "open fire", and then aliased "Bishoptl" to "Corrin".

I think the pack-sharing via the Workshop is going to be a great idea.
Click to expand...

Oh my god yes.

I can just imagine the videos that will come out after this game is released with people using custom voice commands.
 
Ok, I've been doing a little bit of thinking about this game overnight, and have a few more questions. I don't know if you'll be able to answer all of them (you said earlier you hadn't "nailed" all of the gameplay elements) but I'd appreciate any answers you can give.

The games structure, is it story sequence>tactical battle>story sequence>tactical battle? Or is there something else, like optional missions? Basically, is it completely linear or is there some deviation?

Your squad, the 4 -- Grace, Corrin, Miranda, Syll -- are the only soldiers available to you, it would seem. Which begs the question, what happens if one of them dies? Mission/game over? Or are they simply incapacitated? Do they have stats, specialties, anything other than personality that sets them apart?

I take it the maps are going to be hand crafted, due to the nature of the voice control and the nodes/environmental hazards? No randomisation? Are you always going to be able to see the enemy? In the prototype, they appear immediately at the top of the map and are in constant view. I can see how it would be a lot easier to formulate a strategy when you know where the enemy are, but I imagine it would be interesting if line of sight were used. For instance, you round a corner and are suddenly fired upon, you scream "Get the fuck back to delta!", or something to that degree. You know, heat of the moment, intense type thing. Or, it could just prove to be frustrating... I don't know.
 
Feep said:
It's cool. No worries = D

We just put up Update #3! It includes a new option at $60 (Digital Commentary Track), an option for a DRM-free version of the game upon release, and this video:

Command Aliasing
Click to expand...
You read my mind regarding that commentary track. I was going to come in and complain it was priced too high earlier, but thought better of it. Thank you! =D
 
I like the concept of this game and will likely pledge. I really appreciate that Feep shared his other game for free on GAF before. I like to talk a lot so this game should be perfect for me giving out commands!
 
This just makes me think of that Ubisoft game Endwar. Voice commands are a novelty, a novelty that doesn't work very well and doesn't add anything to the game.

Sorry Feep, I'd love to support you but voice commands are pants.
 
Stronghammer22 said:
Ok, I've been doing a little bit of thinking about this game overnight, and have a few more questions. I don't know if you'll be able to answer all of them (you said earlier you hadn't "nailed" all of the gameplay elements) but I'd appreciate any answers you can give.

The games structure, is it story sequence>tactical battle>story sequence>tactical battle? Or is there something else, like optional missions? Basically, is it completely linear or is there some deviation?

Your squad, the 4 -- Grace, Corrin, Miranda, Syll -- are the only soldiers available to you, it would seem. Which begs the question, what happens if one of them dies? Mission/game over? Or are they simply incapacitated? Do they have stats, specialties, anything other than personality that sets them apart?

I take it the maps are going to be hand crafted, due to the nature of the voice control and the nodes/environmental hazards? No randomisation? Are you always going to be able to see the enemy? In the prototype, they appear immediately at the top of the map and are in constant view. I can see how it would be a lot easier to formulate a strategy when you know where the enemy are, but I imagine it would be interesting if line of sight were used. For instance, you round a corner and are suddenly fired upon, you scream "Get the fuck back to delta!", or something to that degree. You know, heat of the moment, intense type thing. Or, it could just prove to be frustrating... I don't know.
Click to expand...
The game is heavily, heavily linear. It's a lot more narrative-focused than I think I'm letting on...I have to do so much talking about the voice recog stuff that I can't even talk about the script and its twenty mindfucks...but the differentiation between cutscenes and tactical battles isn't as clearly delineated as all that. Lots of important banter happens during gameplay, and cutscenes might suddenly explode into action...you've always got to be ready. There's also a point before each mission (except the first two) in a weapons cache, where you can modify your loadout and possibly other things we haven't quite prototyped yet.

It is extremely likely all four units will have specialties and different stats, even if those stats are unmodifiable throughout the game...RPG-lite elements don't work quite as well when the player's progress is so heavily controlled. We'll see.

The mission failure conditions will probably change per battle. The story clearly establishes that unless the DED weapons in use are within five feet or so, they'll only incapacitate you. However, the story requires all that characters survive (at least until predefined points), so it may depend on the mission: if you're defending your own turf, three people could be incapacitated and it'd be okay. But if you're escaping, and one goes down, well, that's kind of it.

Maps will be hand crafted, no randomization. Shots are fired in a random spray pattern within a predefined cone of accuracy, though. I think the player will always be able to see the enemy...but that doesn't mean the soldiers do. If you don't have them hold position or take cover at a certain spot, they just might walk right out into the line of fire.
 
Sinatar said:
This just makes me think of that Ubisoft game Endwar. Voice commands are a novelty, a novelty that doesn't work very well and doesn't add anything to the game.

Sorry Feep, I'd love to support you but voice commands are pants.
Click to expand...

You can play the game without voice commands, too, if you like.
 
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