VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview

beast786 said:
from the article:

"There's just one problem. Cramming 8GB of the fastest memory into a console box simply isn't logistically possible"

isn't that what ps4 is doing now?
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As far as I'm aware, the GDDR5 modules will be attached to the motherboard using the newer clamshell configuration.

So 8GB takes up the same area on the motherboard as 4GB. Just with RAM modules on the top and bottom of it, rather than the normal top only.

10235475_932397.jpg
 
You all are gonna drive each other crazy talking about this thing until it's announced. And then drive each other every crazier lmao
 
Karma said:
Keep telling yourself that. Price and where your friends are playing CoD will be the biggest factors.
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And your friends are playing CoD with their friends, who are the guys who bought at launch and then get their yearly CoD fix on whatever the best multiplat platform is. A sustained price disadvantage can do a lot to change this, but there's nothing pointing to what we know about PS4 being much more expensive than what we know about Durango.

This isn't saying that MS made a bad design, or bad choices. It's a box perfectly poised to fight a mid-2014 PS4 with the original 2GB RAM spec, unwelcoming to PC devs, with Sony getting 75 yen for each dollar; Sony just lucked into tech advances letting them match RAM and launch at the same time, a PC ecosystem that's suddenly really interested in OpenGL and similar, and the dollars they sent out as R&D being 20% more valuable when they come back in as sales.
 
Gemüsepizza;49378137 said:
I am sure price is very important to people who have no problem paying for Xbox Live and $15 map packs.
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$100 upfront cost difference is a big deal.

At the end of the day I really don't think that multi plats will look all the different on PS4 and 720. PS4 fans should be hoping that is the case as well. If the 720 starts to fall to far behind the PS4 I can see MS buying big exclusives and I don't think you want that. So hope that doesn't happen.
 
Mandoric said:
The last BOM numbers we have for 4GB extra GDDR5 and for Kinect both peg them at around $50, and Sony's decision to add it in was driven by the raw materials involved suddenly halving--that is, the inputs necessary to make 8GB now are the same as were necessary for 4GB a few months ago.

That still leaves PSEye, but the cameras in that are far cheaper than Kinect's and it seems to lack a lot of the processing support. These decisions make it worse at tracking people in a 3D space and seem to be a bet that devs will go for the "good enough" solution, just like few Wii titles took advantage of Motion+.

GPU pricing seems to be somewhat of a wash, as 32MB ESRAM is apparently about the same size as 6 extra CUs.



You're basically saying "I think MS will win because I think MS will win" here. And that some progression won't be stored serverside like other consoles have done and like EA and Activision have both made noise about doing for other titles already.
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Nope, read again. He used Destiny as an example as to what in his opinion would be the reason as why people would leave the 360 for the PS4. I'm saying that you could easily argue that because of the type and longevity of the game, Destiny is actually going to be another reason why people stay with the 360-to-Next box ecosystem.

There is a precedence for this logic. Call of Duty's timed DLC has never stopped the game from being the all-in-all dominate selling game on the PS3. Destiny's timed DLC is not going to move the needle for masses and masses of core 360 gamers to the point of leaving the system.

Either way, initially Destiny will sell more on current gen systems than it will on the next. What happens down the line is anyones guess.
 
Mandoric said:
Vgleaks specs the new PSEye as two standard 720p webcams duct-taped together. The Kinect 1.0 uses a higher-resolution visual camera than this plus a complex and exotic infrared depth-sensing apparatus, and presumably the 2.0 is going to be an upgrade over that.
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An exotic what? current kinect has an infrared sensor, it is not exotic at all.
 
Karma said:
$100 upfront cost difference is a big deal.

At the end of the day I really don't think that multi plats will look all the different on PS4 and 720. PS4 fans should be hoping that is the case as well. If the 720 starts to fall to far behind the PS4 I can see MS buying big exclusives and I don't think you want that. So hope that doesn't happen.
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You can "think" that, but if those specs are true, they will look different, graphics depend on the GPU/RAM, not on the CPU. And the time of buying exclusives is over. Microsoft won't spend several $100 million dollars to get one big, exclusive game.
 
RoboPlato said:
There was an improvement in GDDR5 densities that wasn't commonly publicized.
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Actually, this is mostly a story that some people on GAF (especially those who ridiculed the notion of 4 GB GDDR5) like to spin in retrospect. 4GBit GDDR5 module production was always planned for 2013.

Of course, you had lots of "experts" telling you how ridiculous the notion is. Read this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466027 if you want to have a laugh.
 
Gemüsepizza;49380255 said:
The time of buying exclusives is over. Microsoft won't spend several $100 million dollars to get one big, exclusive game.
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Ok. Microsoft is screwed and will drop out of the console space.
 
I'm surprised everyone still ignores the potential cost of the Durango's eSRAM.

I'm not sure how the cost's work with the eSRAM versus GDDR5 RAM but I do know that the GDDR3/XDR RAM in the 360/PS3 reduced in price massively after ~3 years (from $50-$60 to <$10).

If the cost of 8GB DDR3+32MB eSRAM for Microsoft is say $60 at launch versus $100 for GDDR5 for Sony, which one over ~3 years cost's the least?
 
DEADEVIL said:
Nope, read again. He used Destiny as an example as to what in his opinion would be the reason as why people would leave the 360 for the PS4. I'm saying that you could easily argue that because of the type and longevity of the game, Destiny is actually going to be another reason why people stay with the 360-to-Next box ecosystem.

There is a precedence for this logic. Call of Duty's timed DLC has never stopped the game from being the all-in-all dominate selling game on the PS3. Destiny's timed DLC is not going to move the needle for masses and masses of core 360 gamers to the point of leaving the system.

Either way, initially Destiny will sell more on current gen systems than it will on the next. What happens down the line is anyones guess.
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Call of Duty was never available on other platforms before the 360 was released. Change happens all the time in console transitions. Of course the easy answer is is to say who knows, but that is boring. Might as well take guesses now and look like fools later!

I suppose we are getting off topic though. Have to get back to spec talk.
 
DEADEVIL said:
Nope, read again. He used Destiny as an example as to what in his opinion would be the reason as why people would leave the 360 for the PS4. I'm saying that you could easily argue that because of the type and longevity of the game, Destiny is actually going to be another reason why people stay with the 360-to-Next box ecosystem.

There is a precedence for this logic. Call of Duty's timed DLC has never stopped the game from being the all-in-all dominate selling game on the PS3. Destiny's timed DLC is not going to move the needle for masses and masses of core 360 gamers to the point of leaving the system.

Either way, initially Destiny will sell more on current gen systems than it will on the next. What happens down the line is anyones guess.
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Ah, I get a bit clearer of an idea what you're pushing at now: 360-to-Durango transfers hypothetically being easier than 360-PS4, rather than just Durango buys because 360 was the shooter platform.

I still expect characters, if not play, to be cross-platform, just like the last major 360 MMO did, but if they weren't that would definitely be a deciding factor for some people.

XtremeXpider said:
An exotic what? current kinect has an infrared sensor, it is not exotic at all.
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The impression that I have from tech threads is that it's a fairly specialized part, and more expensive/complicated than a standard 720p webcam.
 
Karma said:
Ok. Microsoft is screwed and will drop out of the console space.
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Probably not. It's not that Microsoft can't afford some losses, but they don't want to afford them. From what I have read, Microsoft's primary goal is now profitability. Fortunately, the Xbox 3 seems to be designed to be profitable from the start/very fast, which means that even if sales are be bad, it still would be profitable. But I think Microsoft would not hesitate to kill off the Xbox if it generates big losses (which it won't as it seems), like they did with other products.
 
Gemüsepizza;49381176 said:
Probably not. It's not that Microsoft can't afford some losses, but they don't want to afford them. From what I have read, Microsoft's primary goal is now profitability. Fortunately, the Xbox 3 seems to be designed to be profitable from the start/very fast, which means that even if sales are be bad, it still would be profitable. But I think Microsoft would not hesitate to kill off the Xbox if it generates big losses (which it won't as it seems), like they did with other products.
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Shit, if any company needs to show profitability, it is Sony...not Microsoft.

But, I have to tip my cap to Sony for pulling out all the stops on their PS4. It is like their "Hail Mary" pass...and it just may work. I for one am getting sick of Microsoft's pandering to the "casuals".
 
Deuterium said:
Shit, if any company needs to show profitability, it is Sony...not Microsoft.

But, I have to tip my cap to Sony for pulling out all the stops on their PS4. It is like their "Hail Mary" pass...and it just may work. I for one am getting sick of Microsoft's pandering to the "casuals".
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It was designed as a major bet, that's for sure. I'm not sure it's quite as much of one at the current exchange rate.
 
XtremeXpider said:
Vgleaks. Cape Verde is HSA.
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Screen%20Shot%202012-02-02%20at%209.20.35%20AM_575px.png



AMD's CTO Mark Papermaster just put up this slide that shows its HSA (Heterogeneous Systems Architecture) roadmap through 2014. This year we got Graphics Core Next, but next year we'll see a unified address space that both AMD CPUs and GPUs can access (today CPUs and GPUs mostly store separate copies of data in separate memory spaces). In 2014 AMD plans to deliver HSA compatible GPUs that allow for true heterogeneous computing where workloads will run, seamlessly, on both CPUs and GPUs in parallel. The latter is something we've been waiting on for years now but AMD seems committed to delivering it in a major way in just two years.
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http://www.anandtech.com/show/5493/...ed-memory-for-cpugpu-in-2013-hsa-gpus-in-2014

Duck-tails!
 
onQ123 said:
Screen%20Shot%202012-02-02%20at%209.20.35%20AM_575px.png





http://www.anandtech.com/show/5493/...ed-memory-for-cpugpu-in-2013-hsa-gpus-in-2014

Duck-tails!
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In May this year, AMD officially launched its Trinity Accelerated Processing Unit (APU) that features the next generation APU architecture. It is built on a mature 32nm SOI process technology, using a second revision of the Bulldozer architecture. At its launch, AMD only released mobile versions of Trinity APUs that will power ultrathin AMD platform based notebooks.

Now, AMD has launched the desktop versions of the Trinity APU with its flagship A10-5800K leading its charge to bringing its Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA) to desktop computing this time round. AMD's previous generation desktop Llano series APUs, that were launched last in 2011, failed to make inroads with its touted ability to leverage on both the CPU and GPU portions of the APU to execute tasks in parallel for a balanced system architecture. It wasn't much of a technical failure as it is a logistics failure because its availability to key partners was too limited to make any impact. This time round with this Trinity update, AMD claims that its HSA can run much more efficiently than ever before, as the CPU and GPU of the next generation APU work in tandem once more to run desktop applications with improved compute power and at lower power consumption. Can AMD maintain inventory to satiate its partners and keep users interested? We'll probably get a better idea of this situation over the next few months, but for now, we'll concentrate on its technical capabilities.
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http://www.hardwarezone.com.sg/feat...apu-graphics-dual-graphics-performance-review
 
Mandoric said:
Vgleaks specs the new PSEye as two standard 720p webcams duct-taped together. The Kinect 1.0 uses a higher-resolution visual camera than this plus a complex and exotic infrared depth-sensing apparatus, and presumably the 2.0 is going to be an upgrade over that.
Click to expand...

Both the regular camera and IR camera are 640x480 in the Kinect.
 
KidBeta said:
Yeah they share a coherent address space which maps all of the memory in the system into a single 64bit address space so both can access any part.



Its part of the HD7000 series.
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What meant i have yet to see it is reported to have unified address space.
 
Why are people talking about Destiny as if it isn't releasing on everything except the Wii U?

Why are they talking about it as if it will be the second coming of Wii Sports?
 
Deuterium said:
What does this mean, if anything, for the NextBox GPU versus PS4?
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Both are HSA.

Heterogeneous System Architecture (HSA), maintained by HSA Foundation, is a system architecture that allows accelerators, for instance, graphics processor, to be a first-class component as CPU in the system. HSA-compliant accelerators eases the programming of heterogeneous applications in various aspects, including being ISA agnostic for both CPUs and accelerators, supporting high-level programming languages, having the ability to access pagable system memory, and maintaining cache coherency for system memory with CPUs.[23] HSA is widely used in System-on-Chip devices, such as tablets, smartphones, and other mobile devices.[24] HSA allows programs to use the graphics processor for floating point calculations without separate memory or scheduling.[25]

Full Heterogeneous System Architecture capabilities with context switching for the CPU to GPU
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion#Heterogeneous_System_Architecture

Not Full HSA but both are HSA, Durango have (vgleaks) all in bold.

onQ123 said:
APU!
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Apu%20Nahasapeemapetilon.jpg
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Durante said:
Actually, this is mostly a story that some people on GAF (especially those who ridiculed the notion of 4 GB GDDR5) like to spin in retrospect. 4GBit GDDR5 module production was always planned for 2013.

Of course, you had lots of "experts" telling you how ridiculous the notion is. Read this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=466027 if you want to have a laugh.
Click to expand...

Ah, OK. I knew that the density increase was planned but I didn't think it would be feasible to be done in time for a fall launch, which is what Sony took advantage in. I just figured it came sooner than expected.
 
Gemüsepizza;49381176 said:
Probably not. It's not that Microsoft can't afford some losses, but they don't want to afford them. From what I have read, Microsoft's primary goal is now profitability. Fortunately, the Xbox 3 seems to be designed to be profitable from the start/very fast, which means that even if sales are be bad, it still would be profitable. But I think Microsoft would not hesitate to kill off the Xbox if it generates big losses (which it won't as it seems), like they did with other products.
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You shouldnt have to read anything to know that is their goal. That is also Sony`s goal.
 
Karma said:
You shouldnt have to read anything to know that is their goal. That is also Sony`s goal.
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In the long run they always want profitability. What I meant is, that in the past they did sometimes not care about profitability in order to gain more marketshare. I don't think they are willing to do this anymore, therefore it doesn't make sense to me when you say they could be buying big exclusives, which would cost them several hundred million dollars. It is their third console, and I think the management at Microsoft and their shareholders would not accept that.
 
Gemüsepizza;49381176 said:
Probably not. It's not that Microsoft can't afford some losses, but they don't want to afford them. From what I have read, Microsoft's primary goal is now profitability. Fortunately, the Xbox 3 seems to be designed to be profitable from the start/very fast, which means that even if sales are be bad, it still would be profitable. But I think Microsoft would not hesitate to kill off the Xbox if it generates big losses (which it won't as it seems), like they did with other products.
Click to expand...

This is wrong. They'll try to right the ship for a couple of years at least.

Xbox is as essential to their Amazon and Apple compete strategy, just as Bing is to Google.

Not to mention Xbox is their #1 draw of talented college grads.
 
Gemüsepizza;49386549 said:
In the long run they always want profitability. What I meant is, that in the past they did sometimes not care about profitability in order to gain more marketshare. I don't think they are willing to do this anymore, therefore it doesn't make sense to me when you say they could be buying big exclusives, which would cost them several hundred million dollars. It is their third console, and I think the management at Microsoft and their shareholders would not accept that.
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You are the one that said all the CoD / BF / Madden / FIFA players had no reason to stay with the Xbox. You also said they would not invest a lot of money in first party. You are now saying they will not buy exclusives. You expect them to do nothing and just let all those players go to the PS4?
 
Proelite said:
This is wrong. They'll try to right the ship for a couple of years at least.

Xbox is as essential to their Amazon and Apple compete strategy, just as Bing is to Google.

Not to mention Xbox is their #1 draw of talented college grads.
Click to expand...

Xbox is the only product they have with a "Cool" aura surrounding it. Everything else is either boring enterprise stuff or failed gadgets. They will not give that up.
 
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