SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion

I have a feeling post-credits Booker is one of the timelines where Booker gave Anna away, and she reappears when Comstock is finally killed, therefore eliminating anything that happened with Comstock and the Luteces.

Doesn't make sense. There was no Comstock to "give" away the baby to as that being no longer exists, so that wouldn't have happened. Then again, Booker wouldn't either.


One of those things where if you build a time machine, go back in the past and leave a footprint, then go back and prevent yourself from ever building one in the first place, does the footprint still exist?
 
there are many versions of everything in the Bioshock worlds.
There isn't one Comstock or one Booker, there are millions of them, so a million Comstock's got baptised but all their outcomes after that were different and a million Bookers that didn't get baptised that all played out differently too. An Infinite number of them if you will

I still don't get why they chose THAT booker though. I mean surely there were others in almost similar situations than him given the probability of how many there are

Maybe it was simply his turn.
 
Wait how do we know that the last post credit scene wasn't simply a flashback to further illustrate what Booker did..make a final impression so to speak.

Rather than it being a reset, or another booker being doled to live another life of sin (infinite loop theory)
 
Doesn't make sense. There was no Comstock to "give" away the baby to as that being no longer exists, so that wouldn't have happened. Then again, Booker wouldn't either.


One of those things where if you build a time machine, go back in the past and leave a footprint, then go back and prevent yourself from ever building one in the first place, does the footprint still exist?

Yeah, that does fall apart. Post-credits Booker might be pre-baptism Booker then, in debt and depressed, but Anna remains intact.
 
It would be somewhat cruel I guess to bar that last scene behind a choice you make early on, the bird or the cage, but then again the symbolism behind that is kind of in your face, since you just freed someone from a giant BIRD that acted as a jailor. :P



Not to mention it's such a small sequence(that admittedly impacts a LOT), so it might not have killed people if they were barred from it from making the cage. In other words, you picked the cage, you were always going to be stuck in this loop, no hope for you. Bird, she saw something in this Booker that was different, and was nice to throw him a bone and hopefully to also give herself a life she never could have had.
 
Sorian already explained how that worked. I don't know how effective it would have been to just have you kill a Booker before you kapoof from existence. Elizabeths drowning you leaves more of an impact.
but as others pointed out, sorians explanation is flawed. would we not have entered comstocks body by this logic? there have always been several bookers present at the same time.

the game doesnt explain that and now it looks more like a plthole that the wrong booker is killed in the end
 
Wait how do we know that the last post credit scene wasn't simply a flashback to further illustrate what Booker did..make a final impression so to speak.

It was too suspenseful for that.

Think about it, wouldn't it just make more sense to show the baby, if that was the point to make? Like, not even bother having it be a player controlled scene?


We see the crib, but no baby. What is that supposed to tell us? Did they fix everything, so a timeline exists where Anna is still there, or did they not, and that is just an empty crib?
 
but as others pointed out, sorians explanation is flawed. would we not have entered comstocks body by this logic? there have always been several bookers present at the same time.

the game doesnt explain that and now it looks more like a plthole that the wrong booker is killed in the end

When would have we entered Comstock's body? Initially? The multiverse "hub" with the lighthouses aren't like regular tears, I assume.
 
but as others pointed out, sorians explanation is flawed. would we not have entered comstocks body by this logic? there have always been several bookers present at the same time.

the game doesnt explain that and now it looks more like a plthole that the wrong booker is killed in the end

Wait?

What if we did become Comstock?

In a metaphorical sense..Elizabeth did BAPTIZE booker when she was drowning him.

An that piece during that scene of the OST is called Baptism.

Thus if he was baptized, he would thus become Comstock no?
 
is the case, there are an infinite number of Bookers who didn't even make it. And another infinite amount of them who become the villain. Etc.

There are, that's why they needed to tear out the root and kill Comstock before he was born.

I think another good example of the number of possible Bookers is that in your reality the Lucetes ask you to flip a coin and it ends on tails for the 60th (or so) time in a row. This isn't to show that every Booker magically hits tails, it's to show that they've asked enough Bookers the question that they've hit a string of 60 Bookers who've all flipped tails despite the absurd odds.
 
Wait?

What if we did become Comstock?

In a metaphorical sense..Elizabeth did BAPTIZE booker when she was drowning him.

An that piece during that scene of the OST is called Baptism.

Thus if he was baptized, he would thus become Comstock no?

It doesn't help that he sort of died though, does it?
 
There are, that's why they needed to tear out the root and kill Comstock before he was born.

I think another good example of this is that in your reality the Lucetes ask you to flip a coin and it ends on tails for the 60th (or so) time in a row. This isn't to show that every Booker magically hits tails, it's to show that they've asked enough Bookers the question that they've hit a string of 60 Bookers who've all flipped tails despite the absurd odds.


Actually, thinking more about this, this does lend more cred to the idea of any Booker that dies sans Elizabeth in fact repeats this game again up to this point, as even a flip of the same coin by a "different" Booker will end up with the same result. So you get back to that point in the story again, things you've already killed stay dead, and you go at the same group again.


One thing that I did wonder while playing is the death thing. I didn't die at all until I saw my first Handyman, and got that sequence. We remember what role Bioshock 1's death sequences had to where the story went, so from that point on I wondered if it was going to be the same here. Guess so.
 
Choosing the cage instead of the bird change something?

Did anyone choose the cage? If so, why?

I think all of these choices are merely symbolic things.

The infinite Bookers idea only works if there are ways that the player can do things one way or another. Look at the opening act with the coin flip and the Luteces. Constances and variations, but giving you two options makes it simple for the player to make a single choice.

Think of it as illustrating a butterfly effect that leads to your Booker becoming the one that breaks this loop.
 
Who the fuck is post-credits booker

Everywhere I have read, Coleslaw is our players Booker without being drowned.


After credits Booker took no baptism, in his timeline, so he instead became "our" Booker that is still in debt to various casinos and horse racing places. (see his desk)

Since no Coleslaw exists, no inter dimensional stuff happens.



Feel free to ask more, I am as interested in being corrected if so, just to figure it out.
 
Who the fuck is post-credits booker


If I had to guess, the Booker that was the player either "died" and was revived by God Elizabeth in another line without Comstock with the baby Anna, or was plucked from that sequence after being supposedly dead and was implanted in the same. If she can create Tears freely now, who's to say that she doesn't take the current player Booker, another time's Anna(before that whole line got nuked by the non-existence of a Booker/Comstock), and slapped them into a fresh one without a Booker/Comstock already. That the first thing Booker does is go to Anna's room leads me to believe that he in fact has kept all of his memories of the Columbia experience.


I was in such a state though, in that version when he goes to the other room, was it filled with booze bottles and stuff like it was originally, or clean? I think it was clean, giving cred to this idea...
 
Choosing the cage instead of the bird change something?

Did anyone choose the cage? If so, why?

The key that broke Liz out of her cage, was flipped upwards toward the side that had the picture of the cage.

At least that's my justification. The picture of the cage, is what broke her out of her metaphorical cage.


Who the fuck is post-credits booker

2 theories currently.

1. It's booker stuck in an infinite loop of hell and torture

2. It's booker reset, being atoned and forgiven for his sins allowed to restart anew.

Those are the 2 leading ideas/theories. But there is no clear cut answer.
 
Choosing the cage instead of the bird change something?

Did anyone choose the cage? If so, why?

It's a red herring, an illusion of choice/intent on part of the player. The cage and the bird symbolize the same thing. As someone pointed out earlier they're literally two sides of the same coin (key).

If you look at it in the way that the cage represents her tower and that the bird represents her guardian (songbird), then they both symbolize Elizabeth's isolation and confinement.
 
This "new" Booker has to raise Elizabeth in poverty.


So many interesting things about that scene. The desk is in the same exact arrangement as the first flashback, where male Lettuce is banging at the door.


I wonder if Coleslaw sympathized with his actions, seeing what conditions broke Booker was in.
 
I was just thinking about some of the themes interwoven into this story. The time/space travel is pretty complex and incredible, but there was one thing that struck me that was woven throughout the entire game. In the world of Comstock's absolutism in his attempt to justify himself, or the Vox Populi's hateful destruction in the name of revolution, even in the world of thousands of universes, of differing choices, of all of that, the game draws a huge contrast with one specific thing to me; Booker and Elizabeth.

Comstock and the Vox have these huge ideas, but as you move through all of it, you don't do it to make a statement for or against either the Vox or Comstock, you do it for Elizabeth, you do it for a single person. There's a really cool feeling that came out of finishing the game, because all the things you did, you were doing to let Elizabeth live her life, to let her know the truth she wanted and fulfill her greatest wish; freedom to be who she wanted to be. There's so many grand ideas swirling around in Bioshock Infinite, but in my opinion the fact that they anchor a personal relationship in the center of it is the most potent. I love the line near the end when you're headed to Comstock's airship and Booker says "I won't abandon you!" and Elizabeth looks a little surprised, and then sort of comforted, and she says, in the way that she seems to be realizing it herself at that moment; "You wouldn't, would you..." In this crazy complicated world, their relationship means so very much.

And in those last moments, after the credits, when Booker goes into the room and hears Elizabeth/Anna's cries, there's a subtle sort of closure. It's just the two of them again, and after all the chaos of the story, they're together again, and that matters.
 
I was just thinking about some of the themes interwoven into this story. The time/space travel is pretty complex and incredible, but there was one thing that struck me that was woven throughout the entire game. In the world of Comstock's absolutism in his attempt to justify himself, or the Vox Populi's hateful destruction in the name of revolution, even in the world of thousands of universes, of differing choices, of all of that, the game draws a huge contrast with one specific thing to me; Booker and Elizabeth.

Comstock and the Vox have these huge ideas, but as you move through all of it, you don't do it to make a statement for or against either the Vox or Comstock, you do it for Elizabeth, you do it for a single person. There's a really cool feeling that came out of finishing the game, because all the things you did, you were doing to let Elizabeth live her life, to let her know the truth she wanted and fulfill her greatest wish; freedom to be who she wanted to be. There's so many grand ideas swirling around in Bioshock Infinite, but in my opinion the fact that they anchor a personal relationship in the center of it is the most potent. I love the line near the end when you're headed to Comstock's airship and Booker says "I won't abandon you!" and Elizabeth looks a little surprised, and then sort of comforted, and she says, in the way that she seems to be realizing it herself at that moment; "You wouldn't, would you..." In this crazy complicated world, their relationship means so very much.

And in those last moments, after the credits, when Booker goes into the room and hears Elizabeth/Anna's cries, there's a subtle sort of closure. It's just the two of them again, and after all the chaos of the story, they're together again, and that matters.

This is a great post man. You've summed it up perfectly.
 
but as others pointed out, sorians explanation is flawed. would we not have entered comstocks body by this logic? there have always been several bookers present at the same time.

the game doesnt explain that and now it looks more like a plthole that the wrong booker is killed in the end

Sorry was gone before. So first off, talking about the other Booker walking around the lighthouse area is a moot point. They are between dimensions right then so nothing is going to make any sense there. As far as the Comstock/Booker taking up the same world thing. They put heavy heavy emphasis on the whole born again thing. Booker and Comstock are the same person DNA wise, but as far as the dimensions are concerned, they became differnt people dependent on that split at the baptism.
 
Comstock and the Vox have these huge ideas, but as you move through all of it, you don't do it to make a statement for or against either the Vox or Comstock, you do it for Elizabeth, you do it for a single person. There's a really cool feeling that came out of finishing the game, because all the things you did, you were doing to let Elizabeth live her life, to let her know the truth she wanted and fulfill her greatest wish; freedom to be who she wanted to be. There's so many grand ideas swirling around in Bioshock Infinite, but in my opinion the fact that they anchor a personal relationship in the center of it is the most potent. I love the line near the end when you're headed to Comstock's airship and Booker says "I won't abandon you!" and Elizabeth looks a little surprised, and then sort of comforted, and she says, in the way that she seems to be realizing it herself at that moment; "You wouldn't, would you..." In this crazy complicated world, their relationship means so very much.

And in those last moments, after the credits, when Booker goes into the room and hears Elizabeth/Anna's cries, there's a subtle sort of closure. It's just the two of them again, and after all the chaos of the story, they're together again, and that matters.


Aka,

Play through the scene where she sees the coordinates to NY, and starts crying because you are selling her. AGAIN.

Get punched really fucking hard in the heart.

Listen to him say they should just go to Paris when they visit the door to the Baptism scene, get punched again in the heart.

Emotional rollercoaster this game is.
 
This "new" Booker has to raise Elizabeth in poverty.


So many interesting things about that scene. The desk is in the same exact arrangement as the first flashback, where male Lettuce is banging at the door.


I wonder if Coleslaw sympathized with his actions, seeing what conditions broke Booker was in.

Maybe it's not an optimistic ending but a really dark one? Instead of stopping Comstock, Booker drowning himself actually resets his timeline and his back in his apartment moments before Lutece come for his daughter. This is Booker's purgatory, having to relive this moment for perpetuity.
 
I was just thinking about some of the themes interwoven into this story. The time/space travel is pretty complex and incredible, but there was one thing that struck me that was woven throughout the entire game. In the world of Comstock's absolutism in his attempt to justify himself, or the Vox Populi's hateful destruction in the name of revolution, even in the world of thousands of universes, of differing choices, of all of that, the game draws a huge contrast with one specific thing to me; Booker and Elizabeth.

Comstock and the Vox have these huge ideas, but as you move through all of it, you don't do it to make a statement for or against either the Vox or Comstock, you do it for Elizabeth, you do it for a single person. There's a really cool feeling that came out of finishing the game, because all the things you did, you were doing to let Elizabeth live her life, to let her know the truth she wanted and fulfill her greatest wish; freedom to be who she wanted to be. There's so many grand ideas swirling around in Bioshock Infinite, but in my opinion the fact that they anchor a personal relationship in the center of it is the most potent. I love the line near the end when you're headed to Comstock's airship and Booker says "I won't abandon you!" and Elizabeth looks a little surprised, and then sort of comforted, and she says, in the way that she seems to be realizing it herself at that moment; "You wouldn't, would you..." In this crazy complicated world, their relationship means so very much.

And in those last moments, after the credits, when Booker goes into the room and hears Elizabeth/Anna's cries, there's a subtle sort of closure. It's just the two of them again, and after all the chaos of the story, they're together again, and that matters.

Damn dude, literally made me tear up inside.
 
We're all Booker in all our adventures and journeys that lead up to that one, unique timeline where we find out Comstock must die.

We're also all incestuous creeps for probably wanting to bone Elizabeth before the twist.
 
Still don't understand how if there are multiple parallel universes how drowning Booker fixes them all. Surely that fixes one and at best stops interference with two as the would be Comstock doesn't come wandering in to a second universe looking for a baby.
 
Maybe it's not an optimistic ending but a really dark one? Instead of stopping Comstock, Booker drowning himself actually resets his timeline and his back in his apartment moments before Lutece come for his daughter. This is Booker's purgatory, having to relive this moment for perpetuity.

Thats what i'm saying.

I am being optimistic, and thinking that they set up the scene exactly like the one where Lettuce would be, only he isn't there. Because that timeline doesn't exist anymore.
 
This thread has opened my eyes pretty widely to more of the intricacies of the writing in this game.

Makes me appreciate the Luteces as characters a hell of a lot more.
 
You can have the most convoluted story with the biggest themes and ideas imaginable, but if you don't ground them with some interesting characters, it's just wankery. What use is a brain without any heart? Past all the multiverse discussion and giant George Washington robots and doomsday preventing battles flying back and forth on airships on skyrails, it's distinctly a character-driven story about one man rescuing his daughter from this screwed up world HE actually created. Trying to fix the one good thing he's done in his miserable, violent life.
 
Still don't understand how if there are multiple parallel universes how drowning Booker fixes them all. Surely that fixes one and at best stops interference with two as the would be Comstock doesn't come wandering in to a second universe looking for a baby.

The booker that was drowned was the one before the baptism choice ever happened.

Edit: or so we are currently lead to believe.
 
You can have the most convoluted story with the biggest themes and ideas imaginable, but if you don't ground them with some interesting characters, it's just wankery. What use is a brain without any heart? Past all the multiverse discussion and giant George Washington robots and doomsday preventing battles flying back and forth on airships on skyrails, it's distinctly a character-driven story about one man rescuing his daughter from this screwed up world HE actually created. Trying to fix the one good thing he's done in his miserable, violent life.

God damn these posts.

You guys are killing it.

I don't know if i'm just being emotional due to alot of shit going in my life right now, but this feels like one of the most saddest love stories of all time.

Damn. This is, this is just shit that never happens for video games. Wow.
 
When Booker is at the ticket window, and you are shown the option to either shoot or talk to the guy, and he stabs you, if you shoot him, do you not get stabbed in the hand? I chose to talk to him and then had a bandage on my hand for the entire game.
 
When Booker is at the ticket window, and you are shown the option to either shoot or talk to the guy, and he stabs you, if you shoot him, do you not get stabbed in the hand? I chose to talk to him and then had a bandage on my hand for the entire game.

Yep, no bandage. Personally, I like the bandage.
 
You can have the most convoluted story with the biggest themes and ideas imaginable, but if you don't ground them with some interesting characters, it's just wankery. What use is a brain without any heart? Past all the multiverse discussion and giant George Washington robots and doomsday preventing battles flying back and forth on airships on skyrails, it's distinctly a character-driven story about one man rescuing his daughter from this screwed up world HE actually created. Trying to fix the one good thing he's done in his miserable, violent life.

fuck fuck fuck fuck
 
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