It's in Finkton somewhere, in some basement. I kinda agree with Tom Chick's comment there. It felt a little Disney.
SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
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It's in Finkton somewhere, in some basement. I kinda agree with Tom Chick's comment there. It felt a little Disney.
The Elite
BOSS
For the people who missed it
Guitar playing part:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1qX5Ni7hoM
Or look for it yourself in the game)
Even the song's title makes perfect sense now.
Wow, how did I miss this? Now I understand what was going on in the end credits.
the whole opening area of Columbia was pretty much Disney-like until you hit the point where you meet Fink and the mixed couple.
- Not remembering Anna is a part of his solution from the lettuces in order for him to go save Liz (Probably thinking he cant hadle knowing he was both booker and comstock).
- The nose bleeds are tear and death related events. by killing comstock he is actually killing himself, hence the nosebleed.
- They state sometime in game (in a conversation between booker and liz) that his wife died giving birth.
- just killing comstock doesnt help, cause an infinite amount of him in other worlds exist to keep living, the idea is to cut the root.
that root is at the baptism, when booker "becomes" (or not) comstock.
I think liz, with the other liz's, are the ones possible to kill him in all timelines (or something similar).
Voice of Reason
Banned
It's weird, when Elizabeth asked him what happened to his wife, he immediately remembered she died in labor, but when she followed up the question with whether he has a child, he said no, obviously not remembering baby Anna.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
He said it in a lamenting tone, so I guess he could've meant "No, because I gave her up".
bodyofanamerican
Member
One thing I find myself wondering was (and this could be totally unrelated to the overall story), who mutilated the guy in the lighthouse? Was that person anyone we should be concerned about? Or was it just the Luteces setting the scene for Booker?
Voice of Reason
Banned
But how did he remember her? In the end he acts so surprised that there was no baby involved.
Pretty much the Luteces kind of scaring Booker to go through with it, but some people said the lighthouse guy was going to warn Comstock, so the Luteces had to kill him.
The Elite
BOSS
I believe the Luteces mention that Booker's memories are all scrambled when he's dragged over to Comstock-verse. There could also be quite a bit of trauma involved.
SkyTurnsRed
Banned
Yeah, this is probably my FPS ever because of moments like this.
Voice of Reason
Banned
Still doesn't explain how he remembered his wife dying in labor though. Maybe he thought, like us during that moment, that the child died along with her?
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Yeah, I don't know. It's one of my questions in my previous post.
Tummi Gummi
Member
Yeha I wondered too. Either it's his imagination (which I doubt since it's an in-game moment rather than a memory) or a Columbian. I swear though, at the end of the game - when I opened the first Lighthouse door - I fully expected it to turn out that the guy in their chair was a failed Booker or something.
I am genuinely delighted to not be the only one who kept reading the Luteces as the Lettuces. Kept me laughing throughout the game too, the mysterious time-travelling Rosalind Lettuce.
Voice of Reason
Banned
Yeah, the Luteces went in one of the timelines 20 years after Booker gave up Anna. They told him he can reunite with her, and took him through a tear. Once he got in, his memories got all fucked up and the Luteces molded his new memories to fit the objective, "bring us the girl, and wipe away the debt."
bodyofanamerican
Member
Wait though, the note on the map said "he's coming, you have to stop him- C" or whatever, so Comstock was definitely in touch with that guy at some point. Maybe he WAS gonna try and stop Booker so the Luteces offed him.
I love it, there's so much to dive into here.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Also, is it worth noting that the chair at the top of the lighthouse is also present at the Asylum?
When I saw it there, I started wondering if they were going to go down the Shutter Island / "You've always been here Jimmy" route.
When I saw it there, I started wondering if they were going to go down the Shutter Island / "You've always been here Jimmy" route.
rivalchild
Neo Member
They are trying to replicate an occurrence that's already happened (Them taking Booker to the lighthouse) in another universe. I think Robert makes mention of what they are doing as an experiment and thus are trying to recreate how everything happened. When she asks Robert if Booker could row he replies that he doesn't row, as in he isn't supposed to row if they are to follow what happened before.
Edit:
That is a much better way of putting it haha!
Him taking that baseball is what causes him to be discovered as the false prophet. It was a warning he ignored.
Gareth Bale
Member
I think his mind filled in the memories where there weren't any.
This made me laugh on a number of universes
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/#.UVQ2mYYvI
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/#.UVQ2mYYvI
ThreePiMatt
Member
I don't think he ignored it, I think it was just determined like the coin flip.
I just assumed him being a gambler got the better of him in both examples.
Constants and variables.
I don't like this part of the theme, but the idea, that some things can be changed, others can not. No matter how explicitly he is warned, the outcome of the raffle ends out the same.
It's not a variable, like how much ammo Booker has, or which pendent Elizabeth wears round her neck, but it's set in stone.
It's ironic, because a raffle is the very essence of chaos. Anything leading up to that point would change the outcome, even taking an extra step.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
They could have been marking the number of times they had tried previously (and failed?)
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
I really wish they'd made more out of the whole alternate realities like they did when you had to bring Chen back to life. More alternate realities please. I wished they'd go nuts and do all kinds of madness with it. Like how one of the first trailers showed the Revenge of the Jedi-cinema and the dying horse.
So regarding the Booker in the after credits scenes, I think the way multidimensionality/causality is set up in this game is like a tree diagram, every time a decision is made it branches out.
By killing Booker before the Baptism they "cut off" the branch, causing all infinite universes that were "created" because of that decision to collapse(hence the many Elizabeths vanishing including "our" Elizabeth and game world, hence the smash cut to black when the last note is played), negating the existence of all (infinite) variations of Comstock/Booker-that-refused. The Booker we see at the end is one of another infinite set of Bookers that didn't even go to the baptism in the first place, but did anything else instead(going to the scene of the baptism being a choice itself that led to another branching). Elizabeth/Anna at the end becomes an omniscient being(she "sees all the doors") that decides that destroying one set of infinite universes, in which all these shitty things happen and which is spiralling out of control affecting more and more realities because of the tears and stuff, makes the world a better place, even if that means she herself will cease to exist(at least the way she does in the game, there's still an infinite number of Annas that are just regular girls living regular lives).
Come to think of it this kind of pragmatic thinking makes a lot of sense, in a universe with an infinite number of realities everything becomes marginalised. This also explains Comstock indiscriminately killing people, what does it matter if you kill a couple thousand people in your reality when there's an infinite number of realities where they live?
I hope this doesn't come off as inane rambling, it's kind of hard to explain in writing.
By killing Booker before the Baptism they "cut off" the branch, causing all infinite universes that were "created" because of that decision to collapse(hence the many Elizabeths vanishing including "our" Elizabeth and game world, hence the smash cut to black when the last note is played), negating the existence of all (infinite) variations of Comstock/Booker-that-refused. The Booker we see at the end is one of another infinite set of Bookers that didn't even go to the baptism in the first place, but did anything else instead(going to the scene of the baptism being a choice itself that led to another branching). Elizabeth/Anna at the end becomes an omniscient being(she "sees all the doors") that decides that destroying one set of infinite universes, in which all these shitty things happen and which is spiralling out of control affecting more and more realities because of the tears and stuff, makes the world a better place, even if that means she herself will cease to exist(at least the way she does in the game, there's still an infinite number of Annas that are just regular girls living regular lives).
Come to think of it this kind of pragmatic thinking makes a lot of sense, in a universe with an infinite number of realities everything becomes marginalised. This also explains Comstock indiscriminately killing people, what does it matter if you kill a couple thousand people in your reality when there's an infinite number of realities where they live?
I hope this doesn't come off as inane rambling, it's kind of hard to explain in writing.
The thing that made me realize that Booker was Comstock was the Voxophone log where Comstock talks about how he wasn't a saint or worthy of having prophecies revealed to him. That if he can be redeemed and worthy, so can anyone. You get it really early on but I thought about starting half way through the game. After that it feels like half the lines Comstock says are references to being Booker. It's a shame that the twist was so easy to guess but the way they set up the end is truly beautiful.
They could have been marking the number of times they had tried previously (and failed?)
This gif sums up how I felt during the last 5 minutes of the game.
I need a sad gif for when I realized she never goes to Paris.
There is one key thing I don't understand.
If the aim is to kill of our Protagonist, before he becomes either Booker T, or Cornstalk, then she didn't actually kill him.
Elizabeth killed the Booker T, that traveled through the mulitverse with her, and not the Booker before anything happened, and just the one at that. How does drowning Booker who has escaped from his dimension change anything?
If the aim is to kill of our Protagonist, before he becomes either Booker T, or Cornstalk, then she didn't actually kill him.
Elizabeth killed the Booker T, that traveled through the mulitverse with her, and not the Booker before anything happened, and just the one at that. How does drowning Booker who has escaped from his dimension change anything?
Just to clarify, Lady Comstock's name was Anna or Annabelle, right?
And aside from Booker, people call and recognize Liz as Anna because of her resemblance to Lady Comstock, right? (Even though they're unrelated)
I mean, no one but Booker, Comstock and the Luteces knew her as Anna, right?
And aside from Booker, people call and recognize Liz as Anna because of her resemblance to Lady Comstock, right? (Even though they're unrelated)
I mean, no one but Booker, Comstock and the Luteces knew her as Anna, right?
ElzarTheBam
Member
That was the most interesting part of the game for me. Altering things so drastically with every world jump was so fascinating, never mind the whole "AHH I'm in a quantum state of both dead and alive" thing. Zombie Chen running around working on invisible machines is something I won't get out of my head anytime soon.
Voice of Reason
Banned
bodyofanamerican
Member
Take solace in the fact that there's probably at least one reality where she does end up going to Paris.
I really thought there was going to be a stronger comment on player choice in the game (like BS1). When you're in Shantytown or whatever looking for those weapons, and Elizabeth is like, "Opening this tear could have big consequences!" and the game just forces you to do it, I thought there'd be something said about that.
It was actually really front of mind for me because of BS1. But they don't really say anything about it other than Tears Cause Shit.
It was actually really front of mind for me because of BS1. But they don't really say anything about it other than Tears Cause Shit.
That made me kinda mad but they had me when they ported into the docking area of Rapture. I spent 10 minutes trying to draw similarities between the first game, and Infinite.
Well played Levine, well played.
symphonask
Member
Interesting point about their resemblances. It's now pretty obvious that Lady Comstock IS Anna/Elizabeth's biological mother, just in player Booker's world he isn't sterile so she is able to give birth. Booker and Comstock's wife is the same person, different timelines.
In Booker's world she dies giving birth to Anna, in Columbia she dies by Comstock's hand.
edit: weird paradox, in a way Lady Comstock is the biggest victim in all this
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