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[famousmortimer]

Do they ever say exactly how old Elizabeth is?


The battle of wounded knee was in 1890. So if elizabeth is 22 or older she was born before the baptism. Right?


I am on the side that she is born after the baptism. It doesn't make sense otherwise. But she did seem to in her 20s...

 

[antitrop]

Can anyone point me to a post that explains the significance of the post-credits?

 

[LiK]

Do they ever say exactly how old Elizabeth is?


The battle of wounded knee was in 1890. So if elizabeth is 22 or older she was born before the baptism. Right?


I am on the side that she is born after the baptism. It doesn't make sense otherwise. But she did seem to in her 20s...

21 from what I read.

 

[MGrant]

Ok so here's something that's confusing me. Looking at the story chronologically, what actually happens at the baptism scene. Elizabeth appears through a tear and kills Booker in every version? But then you just get the classic timetravel paradox about her not existing if she goes back in time to kill her farther...

Also I don't get the purpose of the post credits scene if Booker is dead before Anna is born

I took it as saying that certain events, in themselves, are singular "constants" that, if altered, will change or destroy the infinite variations that spawn from them. The event in question is that Booker goes to the baptism. whether he does or doesn't go through with it are only two possible variations of infinitely many. But by killing Dewitt-Comstock rather than allow him to be Born-again and destroy the world below, Elizabeth and the Luteces close the time loop of all the variations that happen after the Baptism.

Thus, Comstock never buys alternate-reality Anna from Dewitt, but Dewitt and Anna still exist because their existence in itself is not causally dependent on Comstock existing; rather, Dewitt and Anna must exist by default, because if they didn't, no one could have closed the loop.

But yeah, if you think about from the perspective of "why would Booker have closed the loop if Comstock didn't take Anna," it kind of falls apart.

 

[The Elite]

Do they ever say exactly how old Elizabeth is?


The battle of wounded knee was in 1890. So if elizabeth is 22 or older she was born before the baptism. Right?


I am on the side that she is born after the baptism. It doesn't make sense otherwise. But she did seem to in her 20s...

I believe she is 20. If the baby was fairly young and the events of Infinite take place about 20 years after he gives her up, that makes sense.

Can anyone point me to a post that explains the significance of the post-credits?

There's nothing that clearly explains it. Some hope that it represents all the possibilities in which Booker didn't go to the baptism at all.

 

[Can Crusher]

Can anyone point me to a post that explains the significance of the post-credits?

There's the possibility that one version survives the drowning, and becomes neither one of them.

That's how I see it. But the scene is there to really be ambiguous to the point where it only works to generate discussion really.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Without reading this thread for fear of spoilers, but does the combat get better? I've got Elizabeth with me, but I thought sh was gonna be all about using magic like she did a couple of years ago in one of the game play trailers.

 

[-COOLIO-]

that ending SUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED.

i was hoping for some clever ala bio 1.

 

[LiK]

I just remembered I got the LE Guide. Will crack it open and check if it has any info that clarifies stuff. Will report back if I find anything interesting.

 

[Gandie]

Has anyone commented on the arrival in the factory? It's just so perfect, everybody moving in rythm. Probably my favourite environment in the game.

 

[Dr Dogg]

Hahahaha just got the menu up at the moment and have noticed Me and My Shadow is playing. Oh how fitting.

 

[MGrant]

Without reading this thread for fear of spoilers, but does the combat get better? I've got Elizabeth with me, but I thought sh was gonna be all about using magic like she did a couple of years ago in one of the game play trailers.

The combat ranges from mediocre to pretty good, depending on the individual. But what are ya doing, man? This is dangerous territory, get outta here and finish the game!

 

[famousmortimer]

Without reading this thread for fear of spoilers, but does the combat get better? I've got Elizabeth with me, but I thought sh was gonna be all about using magic like she did a couple of years ago in one of the game play trailers.

Get out of here man! There's an OT for that stuff.


But - no, she doesn't join in combat in the traditional sense. She finds you ammo and stuff and you don't need to babysit her, but that's it.

 

[MDSVeritas]

that ending SUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED.

i was hoping for some clever ala bio 1.

What did you not like about the ending? (I know this question has been asked a bunch of times but I'm quite curious with how people take the ending)

 

[LiK]

that ending SUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED.

i was hoping for some clever ala bio 1.

In the alt timeline, you loved it.

 

[Voice of Reason]

All instances of DeWitt that sought out baptism die, before his decision to accept or reject it. That includes all Comstocks and all Bookers that gave away Anna. Any DeWitt that never explored that avenue of atonement is unaffected.

I'm pretty sure they went back to the timelines where he accepts the baptism, leaving the rejected ones unaffected.

 

[The Elite]

that ending SUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED.

i was hoping for some clever ala bio 1.

This should be interesting. What exactly didn't you like?

 

[Can Crusher]

that ending SUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED.

i was hoping for some clever ala bio 1.

Bio 1 was clever? In comparison to Infinite? What?!

 

[-COOLIO-]

What did you not like about the ending? (I know this question has been asked a bunch of times but I'm quite curious with how people take the ending)

i thought the game was building up to a really clever twist like bioshock 1s, but maybe it's unfair to expect something equal or better. this was one of those endings where you could say absolutely whatever the fuck you want and still have it make sense because it goes deep into hokey land. they should have just flown the zepplin to paris and been done with it.

 

[LiK]

i thought the game was building up to a really clever twist like bioshock 1s, but maybe it's unfair to expect something equal or better. this was one of those endings where you could say absolutely whatever the fuck you want and still have it make sense because it goes deep into hokey land. they should have just flown the zepplin to paris and been done with it.

I don't understand. You didn't like the reveals at all?

 

[The Elite]

i thought the game was building up to a really clever twist like bioshock 1s, but maybe it's unfair to expect something equal or better. this was one of those endings where you could say absolutely whatever the fuck you want and still have it make sense because it goes deep into hokey land. they should have just flown the zepplin to paris and been done with it.

I don't think you can say whatever you want about the ending and have it make sense. There's a very clear series of events that happen and the conclusion wraps everything up nicely. I'd say the only thing I wanted was more information about Song Bird.

 

[Mesoian]

that ending SUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED.

i was hoping for some clever ala bio 1.

WAIT WHAT?!? You're telling me you actually liked Bioshock 1's endings?

Or, and I think a lot of us were this way as well, were you waiting for that "Would you kindly?" moment, the thing that blows your mind through the back of your head because it was so subtly hinted at throughout the game but you never gave it meaning until the powers that be pulled back the curtain?

If that's the case, then yeah, there's no one moment that's that inherently clever. But I don't think Irrational could have written that again without everyone picking up on it because we were looking for it. The moment I turned the game on, I started looking for little minutia, wondering what the connective tissue was going to be, trying to piece it all together in my head. But not every story can be that. Infinite's story is easy to follow with a lot of plausibility at the end, which I think works fine in the long run.

Though to be perfectly honest, I thought the last combat scenario was a big bag of dicks, JUST like the last combat scenario in Bioshock 1.

 

[Can Crusher]

Maybe he missed it. Bio 1 ending clever? Going to Paris better?

 

[noffles]

i thought the game was building up to a really clever twist like bioshock 1s, but maybe it's unfair to expect something equal or better. this was one of those endings where you could say absolutely whatever the fuck you want and still have it make sense because it goes deep into hokey land. they should have just flown the zepplin to paris and been done with it.

You'd rather have a shitty an uninspired plot rather than one that took a lot of thought and planning?

 

[Noray]

For some reason, almost every timeline I see omits Elizabeth's birth. The game clearly states (in Hall of Heroes at least, probably logs as well) that she was taken to Columbia in 1893, so she was born most likely in the same year, or the one prior. She's 19 in the game. So 1893 seems like the clear answer. So she was definitely born after the baptism.

1890 - Wounded Knee (Booker is 16)
1891 - Baptism (Comstock is 'born', or Booker declines)
1893 - Anna is born, Comstock takes Anna with the help of the Lucetes.
1912 - A guilt-ravaged Booker goes to Columbia through a tear with the aid of the Lucetes, invents a narrative in his head.

Obviously there's more stuff in between the last two, but this is the basics.

 

[DatDude]

i thought the game was building up to a really clever twist like bioshock 1s, but maybe it's unfair to expect something equal or better. this was one of those endings where you could say absolutely whatever the fuck you want and still have it make sense because it goes deep into hokey land. they should have just flown the zepplin to paris and been done with it.

Yeah, because you playing a character who was grown in a lab, who was secretly 2 years old, who was mind controlled to take down a city and follow the command of 3 words, and suddenly forms amnesia is so much less hokey.

Okayyyyyyyyy -_-


Fuck dude, it's science fiction. It's meant to be fun and a bit out there. That's part of the appeal!

Sounds you like understood shit, and that's why you hate it.

If you actually take time to break down the ending, than you will discover one of the most thought provoking ending in this medium..and an ending that doesn't soley rely on a 3 specific words to create an impact either.

 

[LiK]

Gonna pretend COOLIO is just trolling us.

 

[AngryMoth]

She kills her father and then ceases to exist. That's why she's disappearing.

Yeah I got that bit, I think I was just having the realisation that she isn't just killing booker from the end of the game, she is killing versions of booker who don't know who she is yet or why she is killing him which is kind of sad

 

[-COOLIO-]

Maybe he missed it. Bio 1 ending clever? Going to Paris better?

well i dug 'would you kindly' a lot, thought it was really clever in the videogame context, this game did something similar with the 'youre going to hand over the baby' stuff but it was dumber. the actually ending to bioshock 1 was just a feel good cutscene, i guess im talking about the andrew ryan meeting.

 

[Gandie]

Didn't Bioshock 1's bathyspheres required genetical resemblance to Ryan, which is why Jack was able to use them? So how can Booker and Elizabeth use one of them to get to the surface?

 

[DatDude]

Do they ever say exactly how old Elizabeth is?


The battle of wounded knee was in 1890. So if elizabeth is 22 or older she was born before the baptism. Right?


I am on the side that she is born after the baptism. It doesn't make sense otherwise. But she did seem to in her 20s...

The game said she was 19 years of age.

 

[The Elite]

For some reason, almost every timeline I see omits Elizabeth's birth. The game clearly states (in Hall of Heroes at least, probably logs as well) that she was taken to Columbia in 1893, so she was born most likely in the same year, or the one prior. She's 19 in the game. So 1893 seems like the clear answer. So she was definitely born after the baptism.

1890 - Wounded Knee (Booker is 16)
1891 - Baptism (Comstock is 'born', or Booker declines)
1893 - Anna is born, Comstock takes Anna with the help of the Lucetes.
1912 - A guilt-ravaged Booker goes to Columbia through a tear with the aid of the Lucetes, invents a narrative in his head.

Obviously there's more stuff in between the last two, but this is the basics.

That basically it.

I'm not sure if Booker creates the narrative or if it is a side effect from being pulled from one universe to another.

 

[famousmortimer]

I kinda get where coolio is coming from, though I don't agree with him. He just wanted something a bit more straight ahead, which this isn't. Mindfucks aren't for everyone.



You know what post sucks though? The OP in this thread. Did anyone read that list of whining and confusion? Yikes.

 

[The Elite]

Didn't Bioshock 1's bathyspheres required genetical resemblance to Ryan, which is why Jack was able to use them? So how can Booker and Elizabeth use one of them to get to the surface?

I don't recall the bathysphere requiring this.

 

[-COOLIO-]

You'd rather have a shitty an uninspired plot rather than one that took a lot of thought and planning?

id rather have a more clear cut inspired plot, im reading through the analysis in this thread and ill let you know if something changes my mind.

 

[ChimpBottle]

So if Lutece doesn't ever help Booker/Comstock build Columbia, she starts to feel insecure about her gender and gets a sex change. is that right?

 

[Guess Who]

I'm not sure if Booker creates the narrative or if it is a side effect from being pulled from one universe to another.

Seems to be related to being pulled between the universes. Lutece-male makes a comment when he's pulled through about how his brain is making up new memories based on his old ones.

 

[Omega_Tom_Hanks]

This isn't particularly relevant to discussion, but I started my second playthrough yesterday and have just been playing around with the world/looking for easter eggs etc. When you first meet the Lutece's at the restaurant (Blue Ribbon?) after you get a weapon try firing a few rounds at them. There's some awesome contextual dialogue.

 

[Tummi Gummi]

Whilst I liked a lot of the Tear/multiverse plot points, I thought the actual reveal of Lizzie's relationship to it was a bit disappointing (the whole "peas in porridge" and references to Lizzie and her mother's ghost being "wrong" were a lot more interesting to speculate over), and I wouldn't have minded a more grounded (ouch) approach to the central plot arc.

 

[batbeg]

So... what exactly was the cause of Elizabeth's powers? It seemed to me as if she was just a normal kid stolen by her father's alternate-dimension (also AD!) alter-ego which I'm sure would have unusual ramifications on a baby's development, but I still feel like I missed something somewhere.

I know some of the recordings made some mention of her being created by the Lutece's machines or whatever, but I didn't quite put that all together I suppose.

Edit: Was Lady Comstock Dewitt's original wife, or a second/different one? Was her name Anna, or was that just misappropriation of Dewitt's memories?

 

[Mesoian]

well i dug 'would you kindly' a lot, thought it was really clever in the videogame context, this game did something similar with the 'youre going to hand over the baby' stuff but it was dumber. the actually ending to bioshock 1 was just a feel good cutscene, i guess im talking about the andrew ryan meeting.

That makes more sense. I think if you have to leverage "would you kindly" vs "A man, a lighthouse, a door", would you kindly is a more extreme shock. They're both good though, just in different ways.

 

[Remachinate]

I'm pretty sure they went back to the timelines where he accepts the baptism, leaving the rejected ones unaffected.

But the timelines where he accepts the baptism and the ones where he rejects it are identical until he makes that choice. If they kill him before he makes that choice (which is what Elizabeth says in that last scene), then both future branches of timelines are eliminated.

For the branch where Booker rejects the timeline to continue, Comstock would have had to have been killed right after being baptized, rather than right before.

 

[DatDude]

well i dug 'would you kindly' a lot, thought it was really clever in the videogame context, this game did something similar with the 'youre going to hand over the baby' stuff but it was dumber. the actually ending to bioshock 1 was just a feel good cutscene, i guess im talking about the andrew ryan meeting.

But dude, the andrew ryan meeting is childs play compared to this. That plot twist was only good because it was clever.

Infinite twist/ending adds so much more layers and depth, rather than relying on simply being clever.

Surprised you can't see that :/

 

[The Elite]

So if Lutece doesn't ever help Booker/Comstock build Columbia, she starts to feel insecure about her gender and gets a sex change. is that right?

Wat?

I think in the other universe she's just born a male.

 

[mrgreen]

What modern shooters (past 3-5 years I guess) are you used to with much longer campaigns? And why does it matter to you what difficulty other people play it on?

I really enjoyed the game and thought the length was appropriate. Steam tells me it took me about 11-12 hours to complete the story (on normal) but it felt longer than that.

The only modern FPS I have played through in that time are Halo 3, Halo Reach and Far Cry 3. My first play through on Halo games I select the 2nd hardest difficulty level. Far Cry 3 I played through on normal. All took me longer than 12 hours but I wasn't timing myself or rushing through.

I said they should ban the Easy setting because when people play through games on that setting it can very often give them a negative and false view of the game (Halo, especially, is one game that is garbage on Easy, and Normal imo, but excellent on Legendary.)

 

[Can Crusher]

well i dug 'would you kindly' a lot, thought it was really clever in the videogame context, this game did something similar with the 'youre going to hand over the baby' stuff but it was dumber. the actually ending to bioshock 1 was just a feel good cutscene, i guess im talking about the andrew ryan meeting.

I understand that lack of closure can be frustrating. Makes you think though.

 

[-COOLIO-]

Yeah, because you playing a character who was grown in a lab, who was secretly 2 years old, who was mind controlled to take down a city and follow the command of 3 words, and suddenly forms amnesia is so much less hokey.

yeah, i fucking loved it, i thought it was cool how the plot had a theme of explaining the gaminess of the situation.

 

[The Elite]

So... what exactly was the cause of Elizabeth's powers? It seemed to me as if she was just a normal kid stolen by her father's alternate-dimension (also AD!) alter-ego which I'm sure would have unusual ramifications on a baby's development, but I still feel like I missed something somewhere.

I know some of the recordings made some mention of her being created by the Lutece's machines or whatever, but I didn't quite put that all together I suppose.

Her finger being cut off and left behind in the universe apparently caused her powers. She was split between universes.

 

[Plasmid]

Did they ever explain why comstocks voice sometimes has a dark demonic overtone to it?

 

[Gandie]

I don't recall the bathysphere requiring this.

"We're putting all the bathyspheres in lockdown until further notice. Ryan had us install some kinda genetic device into the things so only Ryan and his inner circle will be able to use 'em without dispensation. But the boys tell me the keys are pretty unreliable. Sisters, cousins-anybody in the ballpark genetically will be able to come and go as they see fit."

.