SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
BoosterDuck
Banned
Wait, so can someone explain how the story loops?
Booker saves Elizabeth and they travel to the Wounded Knee baptism that Booker rejects and he goes back to Columbia to try and kill Comstock again or what?
This is really confusing
Booker saves Elizabeth and they travel to the Wounded Knee baptism that Booker rejects and he goes back to Columbia to try and kill Comstock again or what?
This is really confusing
Here's what I expect happened.
Ken said that the staffer was offended near the end of the game, right? It was probably the whole 'Refuse baptism -> be a decent person, Accept baptism -> become a horrible, racist dictator type individual'.
Booker becoming Comstock is entirely dependant on him being baptised. If he wasn't baptised, he sinks into depression. If he is, he uses his religion to gain power and become evil. Perhaps in a previous version it was more overt.
I can see how they could be offended.
Booker tries to go for Elizabeth and dies by Songbird, then another booker in another universe goes again and tries to do the same thing
repeat repeat repeat
then in the universe we play as, he manages to not get killed by Songbird and sees the whole thing through
what we dont know at the end is if this was just looping as well.
Post-credit scene could be just the beggining of the whole thing again with a new Booker, who hears his daughter just because he's desperate and losing it after having her taken away
Or, it could be that he actually broke the loop and is now living in a universe when nothing like that happens, and kept his memories
I personally think that as sad as it is: it's probably the former, because there's no explanation as to how he'd be alive again and with his memories intact.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Mister Negative
Member
Am I alone in thinking that they didn't handle the racism stuff well? It was so well set up, with the baseball scene, and the other horrible things you see/hear, but it never really goes anywhere. We just kinda get "oh the vox take care of it but they're mean too."
I don't know what else they could've done, but I dunno, it deserved better.
I don't know what else they could've done, but I dunno, it deserved better.
if he ignores the baptism he becomes a scumbag who sells his daughter
we play as the shitty-ass Booker. The other one is insane but ultimately just wants his daughter-he-never-had back.
I can't remember the quote, but she says something like "No, everytime you try to save me Songbird stops you". This implies that she reaches the point where she can see "all the doors" like Booker's Elizabeth (I don't know if old Elizabeth talks about the siphon being destroyed, and her being at full power). It would seem that her power alters the pattern, as she is able to pull Booker through time and put him back. Otherwise, Songbird would kill Booker, and the pattern would repeat.
It's a loop because the Lutece's keep trying, right? Granted if they stopped then it would be a grim future for some of the universes but technically it would stop if they choose to stop as well.
Exactly. It is maybe more pronounced now than before, that Booker has a terrible life either way. People might say that Comstock is a monster, but a person who sells his daughter for personal debt is arguably more of a monster. This ties in with Levine's idea of religious 'redemption', and promoting the fact that many people are able to get from the depths of depression with their religious belief (as Comstock did).
that's what im saying. Religious staffer shouldnt have been offended, the no-baptism Booker is way worse, the baptism "saves" him, even if it drives him fucking evil in the end.
You guys went up the stairs there? They even had a broken Gatherer's Garden vending machine there. Ah memories....
jacksepticeye
Member
Haven't seen like the last 5 pages of the thread and sorry if this was posted or originated here but I found this on another forum thought it was cool:
Ok damn it won't let me link the picture
Damn Tinypic
EDIT: There we go
Ok damn it won't let me link the picture
Damn TinypicEDIT: There we go
No, it's not. Bioshock 2's main problem was that it seemed a little too game-y and without the wink and a smile that Bioshock 1 had. But it improved massively on Bioshock 1's gunplay (and a lot of those improvements have made their way into Infinite).
R.I.P. Hacking. Probably the saddest omission, for me.
The other is also a dictator that assassinates political rivals without mercy and that killed his own wife in a rage attack.
Booker is a shitty human being. That's a constant.
Yeah, but we don't know what version the staffer saw. It could have been a simple difference, such as Elizabeth saying "You took the baptism and became a tyrant" instead of "You were reborn as Comstock", but in the moment it could be seen as a sleight at religion as a destructive force, and therefore religiously offensive.
who the hell wouldn't explore the whole area as much as they could while they were there?
Assholes!
Except for the whole wanting to destroy the world below Columbia thing.
Songbird drowns. Booker drowns (at several baptisms). Comstock drowns (when Booker kills him...and later).
Raitosaito
Member
Why did the title change =O
Some people accidentally clicked on this instead of OT
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Yep! I even spent a couple hours last night making a screenshot comparison.
(Warning: BIG 2560x1600)
http://i.imgur.com/PdtMvIA.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kac68TL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/S8Ruxqq.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/gFahLJe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IwzCibK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BMwXgdz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rqzibs8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/szwtP3G.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kECDEXI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/OWmkiQD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Fqen2WF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UflDBlf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2ExuL2Z.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/F2Kyr2M.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/srOlpfJ.jpg
Yeah, no. Comstock not only bought a daughter, he kept her in a tower for twenty years and siphoned away her power and forcibly groomed her - tortured her! - into being his successor and take his throne as leader of a cult of racist, sexist, classist assholes.
symphonask
Member
Haven't seen like the last 5 pages of the thread and sorry if this was posted or originated here but I found this on another forum thought it was cool:
Ok damn it won't let me link the picture
use imgur
edit: I see it's fixed now
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
something that helps resolve the ending a little more for myself and may help others is this:
i was wondering why Elizabeth would be concerned with other universes apart from her own, especially with infinite universes, and why she didnt just fly off to paris at the very end. but it makes sense of you think of comstock as a nefarious time/universe traveller who she would never be safe from unless she removed him from all universes.
so yeah, that helps me reason with the ending and i think im totally ok with it right now.
.
i was wondering why Elizabeth would be concerned with other universes apart from her own, especially with infinite universes, and why she didnt just fly off to paris at the very end. but it makes sense of you think of comstock as a nefarious time/universe traveller who she would never be safe from unless she removed him from all universes.
so yeah, that helps me reason with the ending and i think im totally ok with it right now.
presentation aside
He bought a daughter from a man who probably couldn't even feed her. He siphoned her power, but openly states not having enjoyed it. He's playing for the endgame, which is bringing his values to the rest of the world. He had a vision of utopia that he tried to share, but was denied, and therefore he feels the need to force it. He prophesized (though the tears) that events were coming, a maybe thought of it as divine intervention. He believed his duty to bring about his visions was above all else.
Comstock's stages were higher, so naturally he comes across as more evil.
I did say he becomes insane guys
also MGrant: Elizabeth-turned-Comstock is the one that destroys New York. Not Booker/Comstock himself.
Hahaha well it's one of those literary devices to show either a great despair or fear or a change within a character (obvious baptism or cleansing reference) more often used in dream sequences. Also nose bleeds seam to be a common one these days to show a character in trouble, pain or a sense of regression as seen countless times in Lost and in the Butterfly Effect.
the whole ending with drowning and multiple girl faces looking at you like that was clearly supposed to bring a Bioshock connection
That is awesome.
Well done.
You're right. I did get the impression, though, that the whole reason Comstock wanted to keep Elizabeth subdued until she was indoctrinated was so she could fulfill his wish of detroying the world, which he is unable to accomplish due to being terminally ill.
ThreePiMatt
Member
The music is kind of appropriate for when it plays during the game (and not the original versions that you hear in the Tears, the time-appropriate arrengments).
"God Only Knows"(Barbershop Quartet) - Plays at the beginning of the game and lyrically kind of represents the whole story
"Girls Just Wanna Have Fun"(Calliope) - Plays right after you find Elizabeth dancing at Battleship Bay following her imprisonment
"Tainted Love"(Jazz) - Plays in Shantytown before you to the police station to get the weapon-making equipment. Not really sure how well the song fits with the scene. Maybe someone else wants to take it.
"Fortunate Son"(African-American working music?) - Dunno how to describe the genre, but a black girl is singing the song kind of when Booker finds out he's in the universe where he's the hero of the Vox Populi. Works well here, Booker is viewed as this hero, but in reality "it ain't me."
"Everybody Wants to Rule the World"(Ragtime-waltz) - I think it plays on the radio somewhere in the game, but I can't remember. It is also played in the ending credits.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
I just realized the shots I used for the Arrival/Departure times were from opposite sides. Oh well, not really important. The third shot in that group is from the original Bioshock, and is placed as if the sign has fallen down (it's standing up in Infinite).
XANDER CAGE
Member
So your nose bleeds whenever you die in another dimension, right?
Why did Comstock's speech to Booker near the beginning cause it, then? Is it more of an existential dread thing?
Why did Comstock's speech to Booker near the beginning cause it, then? Is it more of an existential dread thing?
Interesting they didn't model it exactly the same. Maybe an alt Rapture or just they didn't bother.
So who wants BioShock: Remastered? With better visuals, better controls, the Skyhook but without the awful saves
"I murdered someone, but I didn't enjoy it!" isn't an excuse. Comstock was just in his own logic, of course he was, many evil men are - but his logic was full of shit. And it's not like Booker didn't regret selling his own daughter almost instantly, either. Nor was Comstock's motivation for geting Elizabeth from Booker any sort of act of kindness, trying to rescue her from a father who couldn't feed her - he wanted a bloodline heir, that was it.
I certainly think that Comstock wanted to turn Elizabeth into a new version of him to continue through his path, but I think Elizabeth went off the deep end further than Comstock ever did, so it's hard to know.
I do!
I was thinking about it last night as DLC, especially since the PC port of the original is so poor.
Would be a lot of work for relatively little gain though.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
I think your nose (also) bleeds as you start gaining memories/conciousness of the other version of you in this dimension
We dont know at which point in time is their Rapture visit.
I think the nosebleeds were primarily caused by the mental agony that comes from having more than one legitimate, conflicting memory. And Booker has died many times by the point that we see his final attempt at closing the Comstock timeline, which is what we play.
Well Irrational know what to do. To Kickstarter! Though 2K certainly have enough in capital and I think I'd be appalled if a big pub ever went that route.
jacksepticeye
Member
I think your nose bleeds when you start to remember or your thoughts conflict with what your mind made up or thought was real. Like the soldiers in the tears who are dazed and nose bleeding. They're alive but remember being dead so their thoughts conflict.
At the end on the boat when Liz explains something to Booker and he denies it his nose bleeds because his brain knows the truth (sort of) but he doesn't. Hard explain.
Happens in Lost too when you travel through time your nose bleeds because you can't find a constant or what is real
That's the most glaring difference, perhaps so we can more clearly see Songbird drown?
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