Support NeoGAF

[fizzelopeguss]

Just finished, was this game directed by M. Night Shyamalan or something? what a load of masturbatory nonsense.

 

[Salsa]

Also, 1920's? What?

KKK was super active in the 1920's. Racism as a whole was just obviously a much bigger thing and more widely "accepted" and practiced.

Just finished, was this game directed by M. Night Shyamalan or something? what a load of masturbatory nonsense.

except all of it makes sense

 

[Sorian]

In a universe of infinite possibilities there would also be a Booker that is you!

Spoiler

By that proxy myself also. Aghhhhhhhhhh

By that logic, there is a Booker somewhere who banged his daughter too.

KKK was super active in the 1920's. Racism as a whole was just obviously a much bigger thing and more widely "accepted" and acted upon.

Also, let's be honest for a sec. The order of the raven makes the KKK look tame

 

[Horse Detective]

KKK was super active in the 1920's. Racism as a whole was just obviously a much bigger thing and more widely "accepted" and practiced.



except all of it makes sense

But the game takes place in 1912...

 

[Salsa]

But the game takes place in 1912...

ah yeah.

sure, 8 years, whatevs, think my point makes even more sense there. Just a brain fart

 

[Sorian]

But the game takes place in 1912...

While you are correct, it's a nitpicky detail. The world didn't change much between 1912 and the 20's. Some but not much.

 

[MDSVeritas]

Just finished the game and absolutely adored the end-game, yet the only thing that's bothering me is why exactly Comstock became such a huge white supremist. If he was getting baptized to deal with his guilt for murdering so many people at Wounded Knee and then becomes a born-again Christain, why would he suddenly do a complete 180 on that issue if that's why he turned to religion in the first place?

I think that along with the Founders vs. Vox Populi opposition where there is no clear better, the same is kinda true for Booker.

In one reality he doesn't ignore his guilt but because of that it overwhelms him and practically destroys him, in the other he acts as if he can just wipe it all away and be above it, and while he's happier for it, because of that belief he feels no remorse for all the terrible things he's done and continues to do. At the very least the Booker that didn't let go of his guilt eventually can't bring himself to give Elizabeth away whereas Comstock abuses her because he only sees he as a tool.

I think that's maybe the most potent of religious commentary in the game, and it isn't really so bad, it's just seems to be saying that when you think you can be forgiven of anything and that your beliefs make you above your actions, you lose your humanity and you lose the person you once were. It seems to be a commentary that extreme zealotry can end up negating our humanity, even if it seems to get rid of our imperfections, what is really does is hide them from ourselves.

 

[Horse Detective]

ah yeah.

sure, 8 years, whatevs, think my point makes even more sense there. Just a brain fart

I guess the distinction isn't that important for 8 years, I just think the people in Columbia reflect the 1800's a lot more than the 1920's, for whatever reason. I don't know my U.S culture history incredibly well I guess.

 

[Salsa]

By that logic, there is a Booker somewhere who banged his daughter too.

bow chika bow

9 month's later:

then Oldboy happens

 

[-COOLIO-]

There's actually an infinite amount of Bookers. I'm sure there's a Booker that never fought at Wounded Knee and decided to become a supermodel.

there's an infinite number of points between 1 and 2, you dont need to go all the way up to 11

 

[Horse Detective]

Lmao, I love how 9 months later, she is sitting in the same chair.

Didn't even bother to clean the hay out of the room.

 

[ThaiGrocer]

Lmao, I love how 9 months later, she is sitting in the same chair.

Didn't even bother to clean the hay out of the room.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

How did Comstock know that Booker would brand his own hand? Are we just going to say "Luteces told him?" Because a huge part of Columbia is built around Booker coming to Columbia as the False Shepard.

 

[ii Stryker]

bow chika bow

9 month's later:

then Oldboy happens

You know I thought the exact same thing at that moment LMAO.

Oldboy the game hahaha

 

[Salsa]

Are we just going to say "Luteces told him?"

sure?

Comstock/Luteces can watch whatever they want whenever the fuck they want

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I don't think either Booker really accepted guilt. Our Booker constantly regretted while Comstock just distanced himself. When you think about it, Booker is kind of fanatical no matter where his life goes.

Yes, exactly. They are both extremes.

 

[Dr Dogg]

I think I'm going to slowly take my time on a second runthrough and really turn every stone. Just as you enter the lighthouse and see the needlecraft sign saying 'Of Thy Sins. Shall I Wash Thee' with the bowl of water underneath I totally forgot Booker says "Good luck with that pal" and backs away. There has to be loads of events like this that now have a more definite meaning.

By that logic, there is a Booker somewhere who banged his daughter too.

Well when the penny was dropping that Elizabeth was Booker's daughter I was immediate thinking of OldBoy. Edit: Hahahaha and apparently I wasn't the only one.

 

[Horse Detective]

How did Comstock know that Booker would brand his own hand? Are we just going to say "Luteces told him?" Because a huge part of Columbia is built around Booker coming to Columbia as the False Shepard.

Thats why I thought Comstock was Booker accepting the baptism at the end scene of the game or something, since now he knows everything about everything, but that makes absolutely no sense.

I would love an answer too.

 

[Sorian]

sure?

Comstock/Luteces can watch whatever they want whenever the fuck they want

They aren't quite as skilled as Elizabeth so you shouldn't say that they can see whatever they want when they want. It's more that there machine just tosses them glimpses of whatever it feels like and they take notes as it goes.

 

[Salsa]

They aren't quite as skilled as Elizabeth so you shouldn't say that they can see whatever they want when they want. It's more that there machine just tosses them glimpses of whatever it feels like and they take notes as it goes.

sure

I do think that their constant appareances without them being phased at all means they got a heck of a lot better at some point

 

[ThaiGrocer]

The Murder of Crows vigor learning/fighting part of the game had music that made my heart drop. What's even more cruel is that you can't turn off the phonograph. I think that's the only time you can't control those buggers, too.

It's the part with the hanging cages of prisoners.

 

[The Grim Heaper]

10 minutes later, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Wow.

Wow.

 

[jacksepticeye]

bow chika bow

9 month's later:


then Oldboy happens

Fucking lol

Also I still don't like that they shoved her cleavage in your face like that. Feels like pandering

 

[-COOLIO-]

I don't think either Booker really accepted guilt. Our Booker constantly regretted while Comstock just distanced himself. When you think about it, Booker is kind of fanatical no matter where his life goes.

huh? he lived a guilt pit for 20 years. at the end of the game he pieces everything together despite the multiverse mind fucking and accepts it outright.

 

[Sorian]

sure

I do think that their constant appareances without them being phased at all means they got a heck of a lot better at some point

Yeah, I think their increase in power came from being killed inside of the machine (which was the "accident" that Fink used to kill them). So, at that point, they wouldn't have been feeding Comstock info anymore since I imagine they wouldn't want to help their killer.

huh? he lived a guilt pit for 20 years. at the end of the game he pieces everything together despite the multiverse mind fucking and accepts it outright.

Right, the end of the game is the only time that you can say both Booker and Comstock accepted their guilt. Without dying there, both forms go on to either become a slave to their guilt or outright ignore the guilt that should be their. Neither is a form of acceptance.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

The Murder of Crows vigor learning/fighting part of the game had music that made my heart drop. What's even more cruel is that you can't turn off the phonograph. I think that's the only time you can't control those buggers, too.

It's the part with the hanging cages of prisoners.

The music choices in this game, across the board, are fantastic.

 

[Salsa]

Fucking lol

Also I still don't like that they shoved her cleavage in your face like that. Feels like pandering

it was much better than I thought it would be

and actually there was obviously some form of very small implied attraction there (and in that scene), at least without knowing the whole story, and I actually think that in that particular measure it's an interesting thing to throw in there knowing they are father and daughter

 

[Meia]

Another interesting point I was thinking on recently was how the entire reasoning of Booker going to Columbia is like him redoing his mistakes. There's a lot of talk about cycles, and how we are destined to do the same things over and over, but I think this is one point against that;

Booker goes to Columbia with the concept of getting Elizabeth and selling her more or less to wipe away his debt. The actual original "Bring us the girl, and wipe away the debt" is not about Booker going to Columbia, though, it's about him selling Anna to Comstock. Originally Booker sells Anna, and, even when he tries to stop it later, he fails.

When he goes to Columbia, by his own manufactured memories, it's the same general situation; he's trying to wipe away his debt by selling Elizabeth. This time, however, he learns just how valuable she is and saves her in time. This time he saves her from himself; Comstock, by seeing Elizabeth as more than a commodity (Which is more than Comstock ever saw her as).

For all the talk of cycles, one of the most significant facets of the game is Booker breaking his own.

But does Booker break his own, or God Elizabeth at that point? The game features a lot of choices, and they have 0 outcome on the events that unfold. If anything, this games "Would you kindly..." is very much any time you have to press F to do something, or they give you a choice. Ultimately, if you don't press something, the game will NOT continue unless you do. In this way, it's not Booker really that does the solution by himself.


Though I guess it can be argued that it was his idea to take out Comstock when he was born. This may be an option God Elizabeth didn't even think about, but only through taking the journey with Booker does she now see the logic in such an action. The only problem with this is we don't know if Booker willingly goes along with this idea, as by the time he finds out what what he's saying truly means, it's already too late and it takes 3 Elizabeth's to hold him down. Of course, this could also just be the body's natural reaction to try and fight it, even if he doesn't want to fight it anymore.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Presumably after the Luteces "died" they were just running around messing with and observing things like coin tosses and choices because if you're a scientist with unfathomable quantum powers, why not?

I also like Elizabeth's older design with more cleavage showing up at the end. That was sort of clever.

 

[Meia]

Actually one of the recording devices you get to does say that she regrets what she did(probably in reference to Elizabeth), and now that they have free reign over the time tear thing, figure the best way to atone is to have the person that they screwed over right things, so he can also atone himself. It's poetic in that way.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

it was much better than I thought it would be

and actually there was obviously some form of very small implied attraction there (and in that scene), at least without knowing the whole story, and I actually think that in that particular measure it's an interesting thing to throw in there knowing they are father and daughter

I actually thought that the scene with him doing up her dress felt very fatherly. It was a nice moment.

 

[DukeBobby]

10 minutes later, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Wow.

Wow.

It took me nearly 3 hours to get my head around it, and I still haven't fully grasped it all.

 

[MormaPope]

it was much better than I thought it would be

and actually there was obviously some form of very small implied attraction there (and in that scene), at least without knowing the whole story, and I actually think that in that particular measure it's an interesting thing to throw in there knowing they are father and daughter

It makes me wonder if incest was ever an idea story wise, the ending would probably be way too fucked up then.

 

[Salsa]

I actually thought that the scene with him doing up her dress felt very fatherly. It was a nice moment.

I think it was intended to be a bit misleading or at least up to what you think at that point, but in retrospective it works in a very different way, so it serves the story well

 

[Matt2thefuture]

Connection with Rapture. I don't think there is really any it's just more fan service and showing (like the music from our world shows) that their are other possible universes out there. One with rapture, our universe with different variation of "girls just want to have fun" etc.

One random thought I had is when you die Elizabeth brings you back to life with A syringe that looks strangely similar to the little sister and Big Daddy. Maybe in another universe (or the bioshock rapture one) Elizabeth is a little sister and booker is a big daddy.

 

[The Xtortionist]

It took me nearly 3 hours to get my head around it, and I still haven't fully grasped it all.

Infinite literally keeps me up at night thinking about it, grabbing my phone ever few minutes to check the updated OT and spoiler thread. Tough to recall another game that crawled into my head like this one.

 

[Horse Detective]

There were points in game where I really doubted she was 5'1", but her hand looks tiny in that scene.

 

[Voice of Reason]

I actually thought that the scene with him doing up her dress felt very fatherly. It was a nice moment.

Agreed. Take notes Tomb Raider.

 

[jacksepticeye]

it was much better than I thought it would be

and actually there was obviously some form of very small implied attraction there (and in that scene), at least without knowing the whole story, and I actually think that in that particular measure it's an interesting thing to throw in there knowing they are father and daughter

In my mind there was always that thought of "will they bone?" but upon further looking it's always an older man helping a younger girl scenario. She calls him Mr.Dewitt a lot too
Some parts are obviously intentionally thought provoking like the screencapped shot. At least in my mind I was thinking "BOOBS !!"

 

[jacksepticeye]

Agreed. Take notes Tomb Raider.

Man thank God Tomb Raider came out before this, I think I would laugh at it a lot more if it came out after

 

[José Mourinho]

Because in being "born again," he is distancing himself from guilt, rather than accepting it.

Surely the fact that he wished to be baptised suggests he did accept his guilt?

 

[Earl_Grey]

A lot of people are asking why Comstock became a white supremacist. I think that's the wrong question. The right question is why DeWitt isn't a racist.

One of Comstock's voxophones explains that, as DeWitt, he took part in Wounded Knee because of his racist beliefs. IE: He burned the natives alive to prove he didn't have "any teepees in his family tree."

 

[Horse Detective]

Did anyone ever come up with a good reason for why the priest guy at the first part of Columbia is the same one as the guy at the end?

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I dunno if I ever sensed or expected any romantic relationship between them. It always felt fairly paternal, even when I didn't know that it was literally paternal. Booker is like 20 years older than her.

Surely the fact that he wished to be baptised suggests he did accept his guilt?

Accepted, and then completely distanced himself from. Why be remade as a new man if you accept your unsavory past?

A lot of people are asking why Comstock became a white supremacist. I think that's the wrong question. The right question is why DeWitt isn't a racist.

One of Comstock's voxophones explains that, as DeWitt, he took part in Wounded Knee because of his racist beliefs. IE: He burned the natives alive to prove he didn't have "any teepees in his family tree."

I would imagine that Wounded Knee changed a lot of things for not-Comstock Booker. Similar to that trapper you can find voxophones from.

 

[Alienous]

In my mind there was always that thought of "will they bone?" but upon further looking it's always an older man helping a younger girl scenario. She calls him Mr.Dewitt a lot too
Some parts are obviously intentionally thought provoking like the screencapped shot. At least in my mind I was thinking "BOOBS !!"

That honestly didn't once cross my mind.

It was always a father & daughter relationship, in my mind. He releases her from her prison and lets her experience the world, and protects her.

---

Bioshock: Infinite is certainly a thought-provoker. It doesn't have a "Oh, boyo, you've been had!" moment, but it does address many video game conventions (such as being clueless at the start, following an objective for no other reason that some vague reward) and even wider topics in a fantastic way.

 

[DukeBobby]

After playing this, I'm going to find it difficult to play another game where story is the main focus.

I'll always be thinking; if Levine can do it, why can't they?

 

[Doel]

Finished the game, really dug the story.

Maybe it's the 80s lover in me but at some point I was hoping to be fully engulfed in a 1980s tear featuring Tears For Fears. Feel like they teased those 1980s tears with no real pay-off (with the exception of New York burning, but that's not the 80s drenched nostalgia the game had me craving).

 

[diamount]

Did anyone ever come up with a good reason for why the priest guy at the first part of Columbia is the same one as the guy at the end?

Strengthens the whole 'Columbia is a figment of Bookers imagination'. theory, or he forgot what the priest who attempted to baptized him looked like so he used a figure he remembered.

 

[Noray]

Am I a smart-aleck for saying I hypothesized Liz being Booker's daughter when she first asked him if he had a daughter and he said no? Not that I knew why, it just seemed like a dramatic goldmine. Also started thinking Booker=Comstock around the Hall of Heroes, Slate's dialogue really nudges you in that direction.

Also anyone see this? Comstock's tear-induced visions were pretty damn specific.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/596999343217377999/33379E1C1C930E43DEA60F300893C6620D4C7A34/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/596999343217385136/820732E6E10E7CABA4E1D328BE8D85C357739F47/

 

[Guess Who]

A lot of people are asking why Comstock became a white supremacist. I think that's the wrong question. The right question is why DeWitt isn't a racist.

Booker's trauma after Wounded Knee and being a Pinkerton caused him to regret what he had done in life and changed his worldview; Comstock instead embraced his actions and twisted them to fit the twisted ideology he was peddling.