SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
The Vox leader was stabbed. Miss Comstock was murdered. I would say there would have been a connection with the 'Dies, died, will die' Lutece keeps hinting at since Booker and Comstock died in similar ways. Songbird was merely a coincidence. However, considering Anna and Lady Comstock died two very different deaths I think that theory is thrown out the window.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
The thing about the nature of Bioshock Infinite is that basically anything can be explained away with vague, general things that don't make any sense. Why does Elizabeth have powers? Quantum entanglement, you say? Well, ok.
famousmortimer
Banned
It was in the late 1800s early 1900s. Its a direct copy in some way.
famousmortimer
Banned
That's the thing with science fiction and fantasy.
It's like why the fuck do space ships in star wars make sound in space where it's a vaccuum and there is no sound? I don't know, it just fucking sounds cool. Why can Gandalf shoot fire out of his staff? Because wizards!
Crash55118
Member
ie The Truck System, it was pretty widely used in mining and woodcutting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truck_system
ArchedThunder
Banned
I understand why she changed her outfit but I still don't get why she cut her hair.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSf9aEETnvE
Replace "Magic" with "Quantum Physics." And now we have all the answers.
famousmortimer
Banned
Yeah I know, my response was actually so juvenile that the name "Ralph Walmart" made me giggle.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Now that you put it that way, what was I expecting? Some explanation that could rationally lay out the steps required to achieve the ability to transport through space-time?
XANDER CAGE
Member
Cutting one's own hair is a symbol of change in like, every piece of media ever.
Symbolism of her being freed from her past life. I guess since she killed someone.
Couple of mining towns in the US during 1800s pulled this where there was no law really, and no worker rights whatsoever. Company paid them in "tokens" that paid for little more than a cot and warm meals. Was literally corporate slavery.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
WARNING TV TROPES WARNING
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImportantHaircut
An entry for Infinite hasn't been added yet though.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImportantHaircut
An entry for Infinite hasn't been added yet though.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I know it is a trope, but other than that there is no actual reason given. "I just killed some one, better cut my hair."
I know that. I want to know the tycoon that set that up.
edit: His name was George Pullman.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Probably trying to distance herself from impaling somebody with a pair of scissors. She's never killed anybody before, obviously. Also makes her look a little less naive with that hair style.
At some point, I just shrug stuff like that off in a suspension of disbelief manner ("The city is floating? It's magic"). From a storytelling perspective, I'm more troubled by how some of the themes introduced early on seem disconnected from the things that happened in the end. Racism, for example, features heavily in the first half of the game, but by the end, the Vox Populi ended up being a slightly modified set of enemies to fight. Booker/Comstock doesn't seem to express any regret about his bigotry, outside of general comments about "the sins" he has committed.
The Rock, Paper, Shotgun review really nailed this problem when it described the game as ultimately being interested in the Elizabeth/sci-fi angle above anything else. Fortunately enough for me, I loved that stuff, even if there could have been a better balance between it and what happened early on.
Vire
Member
She is ready to move on from her life of being locked up in a tower.
It's represents a new Elizabeth. The hair that she cut on the floor is symbolic of the life she is leaving behind... I don't think it's that unreasonable.
That and she was soaked in blood.
The One Who Knocks
Member
Not sure how accurate everything is but with the amount of people wondering about the timeline I decided to make (what I felt) was the timeline depicted within the game. I'm still not positive about the exact specifics of the universe where Booker's dead is (which could very well mess everything up) but hopefully it helps clear up something for somebody. Ultimately though, I feel the entire game works far better when you don't try to look into the intricacies of the dimension travelling.
http://www.abload.de/img/bioshockinfinitetimel19ine.png (it's a very large image)
http://www.abload.de/img/bioshockinfinitetimel19ine.png (it's a very large image)
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
damn.
XANDER CAGE
Member
You know it's a trope, but you don't understand why it happened? What?
If you know the trope then there's really not much else to explain. It's a fairly common visual way to show a character's acceptance of change.
The idea that her finger being in 1 other reality thus existing in 2 realities being why she has the powers is silly. Why does she get the power to suddenly see ALL realities when she only exists in 2 of them. Back that up even further and ask why do a few dead cells in another reality even validate the idea that she is in two places at once. A human loses hair and skin cells all the time, so technically there are bits of Booker in multiple realites as well. When you cut off your finger your finger dies, it is not part of you anymore, it is dead. If I lost my leg on the beach of Normandy that doesn't mean I am in Normandy and California at the same time right now, that's ridiculous.
The issue doesn't bother that bad I can still enjoy the fiction even if Elizabeth's powers are a deus ex machina, but I'd love to find out they aren't.
jacksepticeye
Member
It's a world where an entire city floats, I tend not to get too questiony about things
Because the Siphon/tower were draining her power. She could always see all dimensions but the tower stopped it or made it a bit hazy. When the tower was destroyed her consciousness suddenly synced with every infinite version of herself. You tend to learn things pretty quick when a million billion minds all think as one
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
There was really no reason for how Rapture was created either though. Even assuming it's built on some sort of massive rock surface, how the hell did they build it with mid-1900's technology? All we get is a goofy line from Ryan, you know. "It was not impossible to build Rapture at the bottom of the sea. It was impossible to built it anywhere else." And that's the end of that. At least Infinite pushes the quantum physics angle enough for it to be possible within the game's universe.
And yeah, the Vox Populi were a mess. They went from a background response to the oppression in Columbia, then they just turn into a bloodthirsty army.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I'm saying it's stupid. They did it because it is a trope, not for a real or interesting reason.
Example, in The Walking Dead you cut Clem's hair so she won't get grabbed again.
BlastProcessing
Member
I like the idea that the universe so dislikes the paradox of something existing in two dimensions that it gives Elizabeth the power to fix it herself.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Well, that's what I said. It's just an overdone, physical representation of character development.
jacksepticeye
Member
It's not there for an interesting reason. It's just there as a symbol to show you she's in a different frame of mind. nothing more. It IS a bit dumb but it's a fast ends to a means.
snoopeasystreet
Member
So do the old timey versions of modern songs come from musicians in Columbia hearing them through the tears or is there something more to it?
jacksepticeye
Member
That's about it. Tears to the future. "Hear the songs of tomorrow today"
Crash55118
Member
Is it ever established that comstock/the technology that it represents is around during Booker's world in which he gives away Ana?
It would seem that Booker should be way more confused at the high technology of it all if not.
Reading the last few pages is it assumed that male lettuce is from Booker's world?
It would seem that Booker should be way more confused at the high technology of it all if not.
Reading the last few pages is it assumed that male lettuce is from Booker's world?
Pretty much, Fink's brother is shown to have a tear where he plagiarizers certain music.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
You actually get an exact answer to this late in the game. Albert Fink (brother of the Fink Manufacturing fellow) can be found dead in his apartment, where there's a tear through which you can hear Cyndi Lauper's "Girls just want to have fun." In addition, at the beginning of the game, the sign next to the barbershop quartet singing Beach Boys says "Presented by Albert Fink."
So he's a composer that is hearing all these modern songs and making new arrangements of them, which are then played/performed throughout Columbia.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
The airship ticket guy stabs Booker's hand if you don't draw your weapon on him. I remember seeing it in an old trailer and so I drew the weapon right away.
Also another question I have is, what value does any one reality really have when you explain that there are infinitely many playing out in infinitely many ways? In one reality Elizabeth is old and has already begun her rain of fire.
The point in the story in which you are drown by Elizabeth you are in who knows which reality, and she is effectively killing off one version of Booker. And that happens to be a Booker that didn't become Comstock in his reality so why does killing that Booker do anything to prevent Comstock? How can you change all realities at once when the game has already displayed that these realities aren't connected and don't exist in parallel(some realities are much further in time than others).
The more I think about it the more pointless everything seems, which often seems to be a point in stories about time travel, that you can't really change things.
The point in the story in which you are drown by Elizabeth you are in who knows which reality, and she is effectively killing off one version of Booker. And that happens to be a Booker that didn't become Comstock in his reality so why does killing that Booker do anything to prevent Comstock? How can you change all realities at once when the game has already displayed that these realities aren't connected and don't exist in parallel(some realities are much further in time than others).
The more I think about it the more pointless everything seems, which often seems to be a point in stories about time travel, that you can't really change things.
XANDER CAGE
Member
Did you pull a gun on the suspicious clerk? If not, he stabs you in the hand.
Thinking back on the latter end of the game, I think the Vox could have been explored more. I know they were needed for the story to progress but it went from mentioning them and not having them seen to holy crap complete revolution. Would have been nice to see some outbreaks of the Vox in smaller amounts during the game and having the option to help the police or the Vox during each combat scenario.
It would have been cool to see Elizabeth's tear's develop over a loonger time, since she goes from majorly weak and feeble attempts to opening a complete new reality. Like is seen in the early gameplay vids with small but significant tears opening and then her shutting them.
I am looking forward to the DLC but I hope one day Levine shows us the greatness that was drowned during development.
It would have been cool to see Elizabeth's tear's develop over a loonger time, since she goes from majorly weak and feeble attempts to opening a complete new reality. Like is seen in the early gameplay vids with small but significant tears opening and then her shutting them.
I am looking forward to the DLC but I hope one day Levine shows us the greatness that was drowned during development.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
If you do that, do you not have that moment where Elizabeth helps mend your hand, and consequently you don't have the cloth wrapped around it for the rest of the game?
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Maybe it's some sort of magi-I mean quantum world that affects every connected world and destroys every reality where Booker would have made that choice.
I pulled and never had that moment and I didn't have a cloth wrapped around my hand either.
When I was killing Comstock and you see your right hand on his head, mine was un-wrapped with the AD clear as day.
When I first played it I thought her pinkie was surgically removed and attached to Booker's hand. :|
Yeah and Elizabeth bandages it for you. Really nice touch that stays throughout the entire game.
Yep, instead Booker just says something about how you have to draw first or you don't get to at all. When he gets stabbed he just says something about never being slow on the draw again.
No, I understand that her power was being harnessed by the siphon and that destroying the siphon gave her full control of her power. What I meant by:
"Why does she get the power to suddenly see ALL realities when she only exists in 2 of them"
Is why does existing in 2 realities grant you the ability to see all of them and not just the 2 realities you exist in. Not to mention the idea that she is existing in two realities because a lopped off pinky is enough to count as existing in two place is absurd.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
i thought that choice was a little redonk. i mean, who pulls a gun or goes ape shit in reaction to suspicious chatter. the realistic decision was to speedily walk away, and theeeen pull your gun if shit hits the fan.
toastyToast
Member
I really don't like the explanation for Elizabeth's powers or that the existence of tears are never explained or why they're visible to everyone with being a much bigger deal.
The thing I like about multi-dimensional, time-travel stories is that within their framework everything makes sense and once you can adapt to their internal logic it all seems fairly straightforward. Loose ends really hamper my enjoyment and that the loose end being the mechanism by which all this stuff is predicated on really bugs me.
The thing I like about multi-dimensional, time-travel stories is that within their framework everything makes sense and once you can adapt to their internal logic it all seems fairly straightforward. Loose ends really hamper my enjoyment and that the loose end being the mechanism by which all this stuff is predicated on really bugs me.
jacksepticeye
Member
Because at some point in a multitude of different universes the exact same thing was happening to multiple versions of her, so when one found out, so did all the others. Her mind clicked with he rest of them. maybe someone smarter can explain it better but that's what I took away anyway
Because the Lutece twins invented her power. They discovered how to tear through time and space. Lady Lutece was a physicist and she managed to bring the male version of herself into her world where they worked together, splitting Liz's body or some of it across two dimensions gave her the ability to freely travel between them. They're visible to everyone because the Luteces experimented with them and tears started appearing everywhere.
I don't know if everyone can see them as such or just ehar what's in them. Booker and Liz obviously can see them because they have had a lot of experience with them cos they're fucked up people lol
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