Does the opposite for me. It makes it sound like a debt owed to them, that they'll write off.
SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
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Does the opposite for me. It makes it sound like a debt owed to them, that they'll write off.
Comstock is Old Joe. I think that's the easiest way to get the point across.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
I forgot about the signs and that they say "This is your last chance," meaning the notes asking for the girl are coming from the loan sharks. Which would leave very little doubt that Lutece tricked Booker into thinking he owed a debt to "them" (Lutece and Comstock) specifically. They wouldn't be threatening Booker if they were the people trying to help him, they would be warning him instead and further convincing him that the girl is his only chance. Not "Give us the girl or we break your kneecaps."
jacksepticeye
Member
Oh yeah I know, it's just weird to see such a huge shift in how different things ended up. She even cobbles together pots and pans into a bomb for you to throw.
But thank God songbirds sounds were changed since that video lol he sounded like a Grizzly bear. Also Songbird has some sweet tasty audio
They're not threatening him, they're bribing him. They don't care all that much about him because they know he infinitely exists and they're already helping a version of him by getting Anna. Plus they love experimenting more than anything else
Yeah, this is the big thing I don't understand. Just before they get on the boat, the Lutece's talk about how he's inventing a story. So did Robert Lutece anticipate this, and decorate the lighthouse accordingly? Or did Booker imagine it?
It looks very scripted in a concept video kinda way, so it looks like something that wouldnt have been fully realized as a game really
even then, as far as ideas go I expect the DLC to head in a more similar to way to some of what's depicted here
ArchedThunder
Banned
Maybe he is Ryan.
XANDER CAGE
Member
I just mean the more open world and the way he was interacting with more NPCs, and Elizabeth actually helping out more in shootbang.
snoopeasystreet
Member
Finished the game and not really sure what I think of the ending. I'll have to process it over night but man, it wasn't the ending I wanted.
Dinosaur Tamer
Member
Started my second playthough and picked up two neat little details that some might have missed.
The book Elizabeth uses as a weapon to hit Booker (after throwing multiple books at him) when they meet for the first time is the book about quantom theories by R. Letuce that is quoted multiple times. One of these details that completely fly over your head on your first playthrough.
Upon entering the Dimwit & Duke building at Battleship Bay Elizabeth runs to one of the machines and says something along the lines of "This is the latest in the series, I've heard it was delayed THREE TIMES.". The way she says it makes me believe this is supposed to be some kind of meta joke about the game itself.
The book Elizabeth uses as a weapon to hit Booker (after throwing multiple books at him) when they meet for the first time is the book about quantom theories by R. Letuce that is quoted multiple times. One of these details that completely fly over your head on your first playthrough.
Upon entering the Dimwit & Duke building at Battleship Bay Elizabeth runs to one of the machines and says something along the lines of "This is the latest in the series, I've heard it was delayed THREE TIMES.". The way she says it makes me believe this is supposed to be some kind of meta joke about the game itself.
MDSVeritas
Member
There's infinite versions of Rapture. The one they went to doesn't have to be the one you see in Bioshock. Yeah, maybe that's a lazy explanation but you have to give it to Levine; it's a good reasoning for a lot of things and that guy's gotta be commended for coming up with a pretty far-encompassing concept.
Vire
Member
Differences between demo and final game is most likely due to console limitations.
Elizabeth and Booker living happily in Paris there afterword?
Elizabeth and Booker living happily in Paris there afterword?
Those little kiosk that let you watch quick videos got into that a little bit from what I remember.
I guess the Chinese attacked?/captured? something involving the US while Washington and Comstock were leading. Washington refused to act so Comstock did and won. I'm guessing his hatred of non-whites began at that time.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Was anybody disappointed with that they essentially went with "I'm YOU from ANOTHER DIMENSION!!"? I'm sure plenty of people were thinking that Comstock was some kind of Booker from the future, but the emphasis on divergent worlds and quantum nonsense came together fairly well (at the moment, anyway).
I thought the twist would relate more to that Booker may have died repeatedly, and his nose bleeds each time he dies in another world (which is even supported by his nose bleeding after he kills Comstock).
The Comstock racism thing was discussed as just using what he had. He wasn't actually a white-supremacist, although there might be things to suggest Booker-Comstock was never a fan of non-whites to begin with. It was just easier to organize Columbia and force more people into labor with the social system of racism. That's what some people here figured, anyway.
I thought the twist would relate more to that Booker may have died repeatedly, and his nose bleeds each time he dies in another world (which is even supported by his nose bleeding after he kills Comstock).
The Comstock racism thing was discussed as just using what he had. He wasn't actually a white-supremacist, although there might be things to suggest Booker-Comstock was never a fan of non-whites to begin with. It was just easier to organize Columbia and force more people into labor with the social system of racism. That's what some people here figured, anyway.
Booker being Comstock didn't impact me that much because outside outside of Voxophones, Comstock was portrayed as the stereotypical insane bad guy. There wasn't much to his character.
Having multiple universes was a neat idea, and I liked everything else about the ending.
I hate these meta shit endings because its just endless speculation on how things work. Its probably the reason why after games that have ambiguity and to be continueds I enjoyed the ending of Witcher 2. It was a giant info dump and you got everything you wanted to know. It was a satisfying thing. You knew where the story was going to head.
Ill give infinite credit, the ending was better than Bioshock 1.
Ill give infinite credit, the ending was better than Bioshock 1.
Something that isnt a NOBODY WINS ending for the main character would be nice.
Possible. Ryan was born by all accounts in Russia. It would have be a distant relative/really distant dimension I would think. Thats a bit of a stretch though.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=51872484&postcount=2325
How I understand it. Make sure to look at other interpretations.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
The female is Lutece from the world you start in, the male is Lutece from another world. Someone else can explain the rest better than me.
Vire
Member
It depends on how you interpret the post credits scene.
For the twins, the sister got fucked up in her experiments by sabotage and her brother got sucked in as well. She doesnt mind but her brother is very irritated.
snoopeasystreet
Member
I don't think it's a console limitation, it's a design one. I don't think you could make a game like that with the player agency one expects from a video game. I'm sure you could make one similar to it where you make it insanely linear and scripted but then you have to ask yourself what's the point of it being a game in the first place?
APZonerunner
Member
Other way around, I think - the female Lutece is from Columbia and the male is from your world - she's encouraging him to jump through forever during the scene when you try to snatch the baby back.
The reasons aren't directly explained just alluded to, i.e he was in massive debt.. to who nobody knows, Man lettuce said Comstock absolved Booker's debt to him. But as you find out he begins to regret his decision and goes to get his daughter back, and in the struggle causing Anna to reach out while the tear is closing, with part of her pinkie getting cut off.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
The kinetoscopes had Rosalind, so I figured this was "her" world that you start in. And supposedly there's a statue of her in the starting Columbia that tears and turns into Robert. I mean the world you "start in" as the first world you go to Columbia in, not Booker's world.
I was kinda upset as "Alternate Dimensions" is a frequently used plot hole filler for bad writing, but their lead up to it helped sell the ending.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I wish your choices would have decided if you lived or died. I don't feel Booker had to die because he wasn't the same as Zachary. I guess they were saying ALL of the Bookers would die, but that still seems pointless to me.
Crash55118
Member
I had gathered pretty early on that I (Booker) was not making it through the game alive. How it ended up getting there was really great.
I think that the scripted target video was actually pretty close to what they delivered.
Based on the somewhat troubled/prolonged development, I'm sure things had to be changed, but I don't think the initial vision was sacrificed in the least.
Now all I need is a directors cut where we get the content that had to be revised to stop some of the team from leaving based on religious objections.
I think that the scripted target video was actually pretty close to what they delivered.
Based on the somewhat troubled/prolonged development, I'm sure things had to be changed, but I don't think the initial vision was sacrificed in the least.
Now all I need is a directors cut where we get the content that had to be revised to stop some of the team from leaving based on religious objections.
bodyofanamerican
Member
You guys notice in the Rapture scene there's a little sister crying over a dead Big Daddy in the far corridor through the water?
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
I don't think there was an "offensive religious ending," was there? Just the implication that being baptised led to Comstock becoming a racist megalomaniac.
ArchedThunder
Banned
Same, I hope they at least detail it.
It shows Booker's baptism, after which he raises out of the water and says "I'm Zachary Comstock, and I'ma crazy now!".
Maybe not.
Yep. I only saw that E3 15 minute demo like an hour after I beat it. Media blackouts are great, especially since, like movie trailers, they have a tendency to reveal too much.
Sleeping Lesson
Member
Yeah I stood there for a minute just watching. I want no noclip over there and see how elaborate those models are.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Because...baptism? I dunno.
Is there any info on where Songbird came from? I mean come on. It's a 20-foot tall suit that can FLY, and presumably there's some sort of brainwashed person in there. It feels like a physical piece of the plot and character motivation for Elizabeth than a character of any sort.
darth_infamous
Member
One man, one city, one girl, one bird.
Booker, Columbia, Elizabeth, Song Bird
Jack, Rapture, Little Sisters, Big Daddies
Booker is Jack, and simultaneously the son of and is Ryan.
Booker is Jesus and gets crucified and comes back to mow down the Romans with a Peppermill.
Also, LOL at the title change. Did someone complain again?
ArchedThunder
Banned
Daisy
Matt2thefuture
Member
Agreed. Or at least hear about what it was. However it probably was the same theme or idea or concept but just more on the nose and just came off as offensive to religious people so he tweaked it and made it easier to chew and more believable.
Variables and constants.
What explanation is given to Elizabeth's powers? Is it really just suppose to be that she was taken through a tear as a baby and she developed the powers? If that is the case Booker travels through tears with Elizabeth through the storyline of the game. Beyond that Booker also goes through a tear at the beginning of the game as a means to end up in the same reality of Comstock and Elizabeth. So why doesn't he have these powers. What is special about Elizabeth's circumstances that make her power plausible within the fiction. Right now it only stands out as a deus ex machina for me.
We have to go deeper.
Oh yeah, I forgot all about her.
Man, the Vox Populi was a wasted opportunity.
That's another question I have.
She can travel to/create entire worlds, and everyone's just okay with it without questioning?
I honestly thought early on, she would be revealed to be God or something.
She's split between two realities (pinky).
ArchedThunder
Banned
Her finger came off so she is in two universes at once.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Her little finger is still in Booker's world, so she has some sort of exceptional connection to other worlds.
Three posts in a row with the same answer.
As much as I dislike "oh no what have I done" and there wasn't time for it in the story, I still think it's a little strange that Elizabeth impaling Fitzroy with a giant pair of scissors only amounts to a change of clothes and the far-from-subtle "character development haircut." Again, overly busy and underdeveloped middle section.
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