SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion

On this point, they made it overwhelmingly obvious that Booker was Comstock which sucked. I wish they removed the thing in the loading screen that showed Booker was born in 1874, when it clearly says Comstock was born in 1874 in the Hall of Heroes. This, coupled with the fact that Comstock would only be 38 in 1912, basically screams at you that something is up. So I was not surprised at all when it turned out Booker was Comstock. Still a great twist to me but they shouldn't have signposted it so obviously.

It wasn't obvious unless you were constantly hyper analyzing and pouring over such small details. I didn't pick it up and I bet 99.9 per cent of people didn't either - otherwise everyone would have seen the twist coming a long way off, which clearly isnt the case: its a surprise for the the vast majority.
 
It wasn't obvious unless you where constantly hyper analyzing and pouring over such small details. I didn't pick it up and I bet 99.9 per cent of people didn't either - otherwise everyone would have seen the twist coming a long way off, which clearly isnt the case: its a surprise for the the vast majority.

Yea, I think even if you had a sneaky feeling like me, the way they revealed it was still pretty awesome.
 
It wasn't obvious unless you where constantly hyper analyzing and pouring over such small details. I didn't pick it up and I bet 99.9 per cent of people didn't either - otherwise everyone would have seen the twist coming a long way off, which clearly isnt the case: its a surprise for the the vast majority.

I don't think a lot of people would have had an outright "I knew it" moment, but I do think people familiar with science fiction and time travel fiction would have humoured the possibility very early on. It's not an uncommon trope in this kind of fiction, and from the moment it was clear the game was dealing with circular time loops (which for me was the raffle draw following the telegram) I had my mind steering towards "Booker = Comstock is totally possible".

I was happy with the way they handled that reveal, but it's difficult to do a time travel plot and not have people piece together the many (and likely) twists for a narrative like this.
 
I don't think a lot of people would have had an outright "I knew it" moment, but I do think people familiar with science fiction and time travel fiction would have humoured the possibility very early on. It's not an uncommon trope in this kind of fiction, and from the moment it was clear the game was dealing with circular time loops (which for me was the raffle draw following the telegram) I had my mind steering towards "Booker = Comstock is totally possible".

I was happy with the way they handled that reveal, but it's difficult to do a time travel plot and not have people piece together the many (and likely) twists for a narrative like this.
i liked that Booker didn't put it together until right before he died.

What was the deal with the world Elizabeth "created" where Chen Lin is still alive, and the two Comstock guards Booker killed are there and have bloody noses?

Elizabeth said she thought she created the world. The two guards apparently are like that cuz they remember their deaths from them jumping back and forth so the timelines are kinda merged. It's also why Chen Lin was alive but also working on nonexistent machines. They basically started to fuck up stuff by tearing.
 
What is the signifigance of the year 1983 in relation to the story? We see NYC in 1983 being attacked by the Comstock zeppelins, and we briefly see Liz open that tear to an alternate 1983 with the Revenge of the Jedi marquee. Then in the Truth From Legends trailer you learn a house from Columbia fell into the Alps in 1981.

Another alt universe in relation to Columbia thats set in the 80s or is that "reality"?
 
It became pretty clear to me early on that Elizabeth was going to be revealed as Booker's daughter, and I thought that would be the twist. If I have paid closer attention to Comstock needing his own heir, then I could have made the connection that Booker was Comstock.

The game does a really good job of making you know as much as Booker does. He never seems to be behind, or know more than you.
 
What is the signifigance of the year 1983 in relation to the story? We see NYC in 1983 being attacked by the Comstock zeppelins, and we briefly see Liz open that tear to an alternate 1983 with the Revenge of the Jedi marquee. Then in the Truth From Legends trailer you learn a house from Columbia fell into the Alps in 1981.

Another alt universe in relation to Columbia thats set in the 80s or is that "reality"?

There's many alternative universes. It's important not to consider time as sequential. 1983 New York is when Columbia initiates its full scale invasion of the land below, headed by Old Elizabeth, who now rules Columbia after Booker failed to rescue her when she was recaptured by the Songbird towards the end of the game. Even though Booker has the vision long before the events occur it doesn't matter, because time and the multiverse is not sequential.

As the game progresses Booker is pulled into a tear made by Old Elizabeth decades later as she attacks New York, giving Booker the message and sending him back decades earlier to save another version of her.

The reason early Booker can witness events decades into the future is because all timelines are in motion once the probability is there. Why Booker has fragmented memories of future New York being attacked I'm not quite sure, but it's possible a version of Booker died after Old Elizabeth pulled him through. And a new Booker, sourced from the same Booker, retains fragmented memories of events he hasn't actually witnessed yet but will.

Ultimately the end objective isn't to solve one universe, it's to stop Columbia from ever happening. It's to stop Comstock from existing. And the only way to do that is to completely eradicate the probability of Booker surviving the baptism and becoming Comstock.
 
The reason early Booker can witness events decades into the future is because all timelines are in motion once the probability is there. Why Booker has fragmented memories of future New York being attacked I'm not quite sure, but it's possible a version of Booker died after Old Elizabeth pulled him through. And a new Booker, sourced from the same Booker, retains fragmented memories of events he hasn't actually witnessed yet but will.

The reason for the memories of the future New York is because Comstock already saw these visions prior to the Luteces bringing Booker into the acception timeline (presumably this isn't suppressed because it's a major event for Comstock just as the "bring us the girl, wipe awat the debt" is for Booker. This means that, in every universe that we play though in the game, Comstock will always have seen the vision in the tear and thus Booker can remember it.

EDIT: Or at least I feel that's what's implied given the (extremely loose) rules of dimensional travelling that are established with regard to the machine. Whether or not Elizabeth's tears operate the same way is unclear.
 
There's many alternative universes. It's important not to consider time as sequential. 1983 New York is when Columbia initiates its full scale invasion of the land below, headed by Old Elizabeth, who now rules Columbia after Booker failed to rescue her when she was recaptured by the Songbird towards the end of the game. Even though Booker has the vision long before the events occur it doesn't matter, because time and the multiverse is not sequential.

As the game progresses Booker is pulled into a tear made by Old Elizabeth decades later as she attacks New York, giving Booker the message and sending him back decades earlier to save another version of her.

The reason early Booker can witness events decades into the future is because all timelines are in motion once the probability is there. Why Booker has fragmented memories of future New York being attacked I'm not quite sure, but it's possible a version of Booker died after Old Elizabeth pulled him through. And a new Booker, sourced from the same Booker, retains fragmented memories of events he hasn't actually witnessed yet but will.

Ultimately the end objective isn't to solve one universe, it's to stop Columbia from ever happening. It's to stop Comstock from existing. And the only way to do that is to completely eradicate the probability of Booker surviving the baptism and becoming Comstock.

Yeah, this seems to be the key moment that none of the other Booker's experience. With age (and I don't know if she turns off the siphon) Elizabeth gains the ability to "see all the doors" (she tells Booker that Songbird stops him every single time he tries to rescue her). She then gives Booker a message for Elizabeth, which lets her and Booker control Songbird. Songbird destroys the siphon, Booker's Elizabeth also gains the power to "see all the doors", and bring Booker back through time to when the Booker/Comstock divergence occurs.

The reason for the memories of the future New York is because Comstock already saw these visions prior to the Luteces bringing Booker into the acception timeline (presumably this isn't suppressed because it's a major event for Comstock just as the "bring us the girl, wipe awat the debt" is for Booker. This means that, in every universe that we play though in the game, Comstock will always have seen the vision in the tear and thus Booker can remember it.

Yeah, this vision is pivotal for Comstock, and likely one of his earliest. It's the reason why he needs to take Anna, because he has seen his heir "drown in flames the mountains of man".
 
The reason for the memories of the future New York is because Comstock already saw these visions prior to the Luteces bringing Booker into the acception timeline (presumably this isn't suppressed because it's a major event for Comstock just as the "bring us the girl, wipe awat the debt" is for Booker. This means that, in every universe that we play though in the game, Comstock will always have seen the vision in the tear and thus Booker can remember it.

Yes, that's right. It's a shared "memory", Comstock's vision, imprinted on Booker as they exist in the same universe.

Yeah, this seems to be the key moment that none of the other Bookers experience. With age (and I don't know if she turns off the siphon) she gains the ability to "see all the doors" (she tells Booker that Songbird stops him every single time he tries to rescue her). She then gives Booker a message for Elizabeth, which lets her and Booker control Songbird. Songbird destroys the siphon, Booker's Elizabeth also gains the power to "see all the doors", and bring Booker back through time to when the Booker/Comstock divergence occurs.

Yep. But it's only young Elizabeth in the game's timeline that manages to truly transcend space/time and become an omnipotent all-seeing all-knowing god. And then in turn killing herself as god, by killing Booker/Comstock at the baptism.

God becomes, god exists, and god removes herself from all existence, never having been at all.
 
I also want to give the game so many props for having all the crazy shit you do DIRECTLY related to a very singular story and motivation. All the tears the open, all the dimensions they visit, all for a singular purpose.

I LOVED how jacked up Booker's journey was just to keep following Elizabeth and save her, sending him to a damn future NYC along the way.

It was never "Go, Booker...see the city...from tomorrow..."

It was always, "Shit I gotta get -- wait WHERE am I now??"

LOVE that about this game.
 
On this point, they made it overwhelmingly obvious that Booker was Comstock which sucked. I wish they removed the thing in the loading screen that showed Booker was born in 1874, when it clearly says Comstock was born in 1874 in the Hall of Heroes. This, coupled with the fact that Comstock would only be 38 in 1912, basically screams at you that something is up. So I was not surprised at all when it turned out Booker was Comstock. Still a great twist to me but they shouldn't have signposted it so obviously.

Yup. I honestly was surprised they held it to almost (was it literally?) the last sentence in the game. I was sure he'd feel some effect (another nosebleed) as soon as he killed Comstock.
 
Yup. I honestly was surprised they held it to almost (was it literally?) the last sentence in the game. I was sure he'd feel some effect (another nosebleed) as soon as he killed Comstock.

Personally, I didn't really see either the Comstock/Booker connection or that Elizabeth was Booker's daughter until right up to the end. I stuck wrapping my head around the multi-dimension bits of the story for the majority of the game trying to figure out what was going on.

The nosebleeds, especially the early one, made me think he had already been pulled into that universe by someone or something, but never completed the connection with Comstock.

Anyone else miss it until the end? Man I hope I'm not alone on this.
 
Personally, I didn't really see either the Comstock/Booker connection or that Elizabeth was Booker's daughter until right up to the end. I stuck wrapping my head around the multi-dimension bits of the story for the majority of the game trying to figure out what was going on.

The nosebleeds, especially the early one, made me think he had already been pulled into that universe by someone or something, but never completed the connection with Comstock.

Anyone else miss it until the end? Man I hope I'm not alone on this.

You're not.

:)
 
Finished the game last night. Quite the ride. That ending was kind of creepy at 1 AM ;__;

Is there any significance to the flow chart on the chalkboard in one of the final rooms (with Voxophone 79/80, I guess?). At first I thought it was the "proper" sequence of answers to the decision points in the game but there's just the one Ending so that's not right. That and there's more nodes than decision points anyway. And, well, going against what the game would seem to indicate anyway with how choice works.

At the same time, it's Comstock's ship so it wouldn't make sense for that to be there as it'd be more for the Luteces to be keeping track of.

I dunno. I spent too much time staring at it trying to figure it out.

The handymen as well were absolute crap compared to big daddies. Dunno if it was because I played on hard, but the vigors pretty much did fuck all to them, crows stunned them for maybe 2 seconds. They just felt stupidly strong, it was impossible to get distance on them since they can jump an infinite distance and height it seems, so even if I jumped on the rails and went to the other side of the combat area, they would be right in my face again within seconds, knocking me back and draining all shield + some health in one go. Every handyman fight bassically boiled down to me kiting like a mad man for 10 minutes while getting a few shots off here and there.

Compare that to the Big Daddies were you could set up a ton of plasmid traps and shit in a room, maybe hack some turrets as well. Then go and aggro the big daddy, lure him into your awesome trap, and then unleash hell on him, they were still strong, but at least they were reasonable strong, with limits.

This was my favorite part, actually. I hated how inconsequential every Big Daddy fight was in Bioshock. Set up a few trap bolts, lure them in, kill them, rinse, repeat. It's boring, to me. It didn't help that they were pushover enemies even in a straight fight anyway.

But I prefer the gunplay antics so that helps a lot. Every Handyman fight was basically a constant struggle. That's what I want out of the big bad enemy of the game.

Edit: Plus, every single one I killed brought me back to the Voxophone from earlier in the game on one of the Handymen corpses. The one from his wife and how much she loved him, despite him becoming a tin man. So every time a Handyman killed me, I was all, "Fuck, I probably deserve this."

The vigors, there are fewer vigors than there were plasmids in bioshock. And from my experience most of them were quite useless on hard. Fire and Lightning vigors were pretty much pointless, too little dmg and effect. Much easier and better to just spam possesion. That way you create a distraction, and you're guaranteed at least one dead enemy. Charge is another one that didn't really feel very useful, if you're fighting agains't 1-3 guys, it makes no sense to use it over possesion. If you're fighting more than that, you're sure as fuck not gonna want to charge right into them.

I found Possession useless. The damage and distract you get from it (for Salts spent) isn't that great, though I didn't bother upgrading it so I don't know how much the cost reduction was. Shock was the one I kept around for the entire game since it incapacitates (and is spammable) while granting bonus damage. Motorized Patriots were a joke with this, for instance. The damage of the Shock itself is inconsequential.

Shock + Undertow (long duration disable + removing people from hidey-holes, not even counting the abuse you could do with dropping people off Columbia) was my mainstay for the end-game.

Return to Sender I found adorably useless if only for the time you get it but the ammo refill is probably fucking amazing. Dunno, I didn't want to use it at that point.

I'm hoping for my 1999 run to not use the same loadouts (hey, maybe I'll use Devil's Kiss finally) but I don't know how I'll not use Undertow.
 
Personally, I didn't really see either the Comstock/Booker connection or that Elizabeth was Booker's daughter until right up to the end. I stuck wrapping my head around the multi-dimension bits of the story for the majority of the game trying to figure out what was going on.

The nosebleeds, especially the early one, made me think he had already been pulled into that universe by someone or something, but never completed the connection with Comstock.

Anyone else miss it until the end? Man I hope I'm not alone on this.

It crossed my mind a few times, but I must admit that I missed most of it until the last few minutes.

What I did predict very early on was that the game would include Rapture in some form. :)
 
Is there any significance to the flow chart on the chalkboard in one of the final rooms (with Voxophone 79/80, I guess?). At first I thought it was the "proper" sequence of answers to the decision points in the game but there's just the one Ending so that's not right. That and there's more nodes than decision points anyway. And, well, going against what the game would seem to indicate anyway with how choice works.

Comstock probably trying to work out the timelines and what's going on. He knows who Booker is. He's seen several visions of how things can and will play out. And he's trying to manipulate his universe in favour of the firey prophecy timeline.
 
It crossed my mind a few times, but I must admit that I missed most of it until the last few minutes.

What I did predict very early on was that the game would include Rapture in some form. :)

So glad I didn't see that coming. When Songbird is behind the glass underwater I just totally died.

There was one distraction tear early on that was balloons and confetti that made me think it was from Rapture but that's it.
 
Comstock probably trying to work out the timelines and what's going on. He knows who Booker is. He's seen several visions of how things can and will play out. And he's trying to manipulate his universe in favour of the firey prophecy timeline.
fucked up that he made his daughter's initials as a sign that Booker was the False Shepard.

So glad I didn't see that coming. When Songbird is behind the glass underwater I just totally died.

There was one distraction tear early on that was balloons and confetti that made me think it was from Rapture but that's it.

I was like, yea, she opened a tear to make him drown and then WHAM BAM, Rapture reveal! What a great HOLY SHIT moment.
 
Finished the game last night. Quite the ride. That ending was kind of creepy at 1 AM ;__;

This was my favorite part, actually. I hated how inconsequential every Big Daddy fight was in Bioshock. Set up a few trap bolts, lure them in, kill them, rinse, repeat. It's boring, to me. It didn't help that they were pushover enemies even in a straight fight anyway.

I still think they missed an opportunity with Songbird's presence. He should have been a Tyrant/Nemesis type recurring 'boss', that would perhaps drop into battles you were having with Comstock's goons and the Vox.
 
Comstock probably trying to work out the timelines and what's going on. He knows who Booker is. He's seen several visions of how things can and will play out. And he's trying to manipulate his universe in favour of the firey prophecy timeline.

Hm, that's true. Maybe I overlooked something on the Voxophone too (I think it was Comstock's last one that's in there). I just know I stared at that damn flowchart trying to figure out if it was something in-game or meta-game.

fucked up that he made his daughter's initials as a sign that Booker was the False Shepard.

To be fair, he needed something and Booker having self-branded himself with the AD just worked out.

I still think they missed an opportunity with Songbird's presence. He should have been a Tyrant/Nemesis type recurring 'boss', that would perhaps drop into battles you were having with Comstock's goons and the Vox.

I remember being pretty down when Songbird seemingly broke down when chasing you early in the game. Like, "That's ... that's it?"

Songbird could have been (or, rather, should have!) around a lot more. If for nothing else than the sheer terror that "HOLY SHIT IT'S GOING TO KILL ME" it'd have given :x
 
This was my favorite part, actually. I hated how inconsequential every Big Daddy fight was in Bioshock. Set up a few trap bolts, lure them in, kill them, rinse, repeat. It's boring, to me. It didn't help that they were pushover enemies even in a straight fight anyway.

But I prefer the gunplay antics so that helps a lot. Every Handyman fight was basically a constant struggle. That's what I want out of the big bad enemy of the game.

Edit: Plus, every single one I killed brought me back to the Voxophone from earlier in the game on one of the Handymen corpses. The one from his wife and how much she loved him, despite him becoming a tin man. So every time a Handyman killed me, I was all, "Fuck, I probably deserve this."

I'm normally fine with super tough enemies. But Handymen just seems like a broken enemy to me, there's litterally no way to fight them other than to get some distance, shoot at them for 2 seconds, and then run like your ass is on fire the second they jump at you. It's bad design imo.
 
I was like, yea, she opened a tear to make him drown and then WHAM BAM, Rapture reveal! What a great HOLY SHIT moment.

I was almost in denial. I knew it was underwater... I knew in the back of my mind for that split second what it was. But I was like "No... it can't be.".

Then I touched the mouse and looked around.
 
As someone who reads a lot of comic books, all this multiverse nonsense felt like a story I've seen a million times already. I predicted it hours earlier and was very disappointed that I was right.

I expected so much more.
 
I'm normally fine with super tough enemies. But Handymen just seems like a broken enemy to me, there's litterally no way to fight them other than to get some distance, shoot at them for 2 seconds, and then run like your ass is on fire the second they jump at you. It's bad design imo.

Well, I agree to a certain extent that they were a bit ridiculous. Maybe a half second, or even just a quarter, in delay for some of their timings would've helped. But, really, I liked that they were ridiculous AND it gave me that constant run-gun-skyline-strike-run-gun-etc. franticness to the game.

Different strokes I guess :x

I know, still fucked up

I guess he could've just handed out pictures. "MY FLOCK PLS TO LOOK FOR DIS GUY OK?"

Then again, maybe there's people who remember what Comstock looked like when he was really young (...er, well, y'know what I mean) so needed something physical that wasn't his actual appearance.

The real miracle is Ken Levine finally managed to not fuck up a game's ending.

You have no idea how many alternate realities this took.
 
I think they were both lame.

I actually would have preferred no multiple endings and that the fate of the little sisters be left open to interpretation.
i loved the cheesiness of the good ending. But that was me. Bioshock 2 had a decent ending too.
 
I remember being pretty down when Songbird seemingly broke down when chasing you early in the game. Like, "That's ... that's it?"

Songbird could have been (or, rather, should have!) around a lot more. If for nothing else than the sheer terror that "HOLY SHIT IT'S GOING TO KILL ME" it'd have given :x

Yeah, I wish Songbird had come into play more. I think it's good that you never "fight" him due to the overall story arc, but him showing up and scaring the shit out of you more often than he did would have been great. On the other hand, they placed his appearances just far enough away that you start to get engrossed in the story and forget about him, and then you hear the damn whistle and are like "OH FUCK!"

I'm normally fine with super tough enemies. But Handymen just seems like a broken enemy to me, there's litterally no way to fight them other than to get some distance, shoot at them for 2 seconds, and then run like your ass is on fire the second they jump at you. It's bad design imo.

Murder of Crows! The very last Handyman I literally spammed Murder of Crows and shot at his heart. Didn't have any trouble at all.
 
So who/what executed the guy in the lighthouse at the beginning?

I assume the Luteces. The first time they contact Booker the lighthouse keeper murders Booker. The second time they contact Booker they murder the lighthouse keeper before they arrive to prevent his death, possibly without the messages. An unknown amount of attempts later they probably add the messages in the lighthouse to change something that would have occured without them.
 
I assume the Luteces. The first time they contact Booker the lighthouse keeper murders Booker. The second time they contact Booker they murder the lighthouse keeper before they arrive to prevent his death, possibly without the messages. An unknown amount of attempts later they probably add the messages in the lighthouse to change something that would have occured without them.
I consider this just as much a story of the Luteces as Booker/Elizabeth/Comstock.

I never could have imagined their role in the story was so paramount.
 
I assume the Luteces. The first time they contact Booker the lighthouse keeper murders Booker. The second time they contact Booker they murder the lighthouse keeper before they arrive to prevent his death, possibly without the messages. An unknown amount of attempts later they probably add the messages in the lighthouse to change something that would have occured without them.

Was this revealed in the game somewhere? I only found roughly half of the records.
 
I think this is how Ken wanted it (one ending). In a Gamespot interview he mentioned that 2K mandated the multiple endings thing.
yea, iirc in an old interview, they didn't have time for a longer ending either. it was FMV and they didn't have a lot of time to render the scenes. Levine definitely regretted the way they were done.
 
Did you play on hard? Because I did use murder of crows to stun handymen, but the duration was short that it doesn't help a lot.

Yeah, I was on Hard. The stun duration wasn't long, but it gave me enough time to actually aim at the heart, as opposed to a non-stunned Handyman which is moving too aggressively to ever get a heart shot off.
 
Yeah, I was on Hard. The stun duration wasn't long, but it gave me enough time to actually aim at the heart, as opposed to a non-stunned Handyman which is moving too aggressively to ever get a heart shot off.

I used Crow and then Electricity to double stun him. Made him easy until I ran outta Vigor lol
 
Was this revealed in the game somewhere? I only found roughly half of the records.

Yes, and no. The Luteces' story is told almost solely through the Voxaphones. We know that they interfered in the timeline to get Anna. We know their interference resulted in them becoming trapped in the timeline. We know that the male Lutece wished to reset the timeline to escape their predicament while the female Lutece saw it as pointless because 'time is an ocean so why push back a tide?' (paraphrased). We also know that the male Lutece delivered an ultimatum to female Lutece, either she joined him or they parted. As they are together in the game, the ultimatum was accepted. As a result, we know that the Luteces are trying to reset the timeline, this is a base assumption that's grounded in what we know for definite.

We know that the timeline we play through in the game is not the first time it has occured. How do we know this? Because the Lutece's state that "he DOESN'T row" (as opposed to "he doesn't ROW"), the coin always lands on head (a constant), they send a note urging Booker not to pick 77 (this appears to be a constant too, not the delivery of the note but Booker having 77. I think they still send the note because, if they don't, Booker is caught by surprise at the raffle and is murdered), delivering the armour tonic (which could have caused him to die, this is a variable) and, most obviously, because when Booker dies, we see him in his office where he opens the door (this is what would have begun the 'original' rejection timeline, Booker opens the door, the Luteces bring him to the acception timeline to take back Anna and so on) repeats all of the events up to wherever you were in the game and then does something different at that checkpoint (when you regain control and not die). The Luteces have 122 marks on the board before Booker arrives (so according to the board, this is the 123rd time. As has been mentioned, this doesn't mean it IS the 123rd time, it just means it is at least that. Personally, 123 times to perfect the entire, complex timeline seems extremely unlikely, it had to be much more) which also shows that "heads" is a constant.

Now, if we accept the Lucetes are trying to reset the timeline to create a paradox to erase the existence of Comstock to prevent them from becoming trapped in the timeline, and we can see their interference in the timeline we are playing through, then the lighthouse keeper's fate becomes much more apparent. The lighthouse had a bed, books, and food (I believe it had food, this is ultimately insignificant regard) which suggests that whoever was there, was living there. If I remember correctly, the lighthouse keeper was faithful to Comstock (via the books and parchment) and had some note regarding the False Shepard (I'll go back and check this to confirm once I reach a checkpoint as I'm currently playing through the game, but my recollection is that there is some indication that he would be hostile to Booker). If the lighthouse keeper was not murdered before Booker's arrival then Booker would have been caught off guard and killed. So either the Luteces new in advance that the lighthouse keeper would murder Booker and thus murdered him pre-emptively or they discovered it by Booker's failure the first time.

The fundamental key to the plot is the Luteces and because that's told almost solely in the Voxaphones it is easy to miss.
 
It must have been amusing the first 100 tries or so.

"All right, he is advancing, great. Oh, the shield killed him. Does it always kill him? Too risky, let's leave that out."

*97 Bookers die in the next firefight*

"Ok. Let's try the shield again."
 
I consider this just as much a story of the Luteces as Booker/Elizabeth/Comstock.

I never could have imagined their role in the story was so paramount.

Once the finale wrapped itself up, I figured every time they appeared was them doing SOMETHING to influence the plot in some way. The Lightkeeper is killed to prevent a death, you're warned about the raffle ahead of time, you're given the Shield tonic, etc. etc.

Everything but the coin flip. That's just to test how the realities work. Basically, their control experiment.

It must have been amusing the first 100 tries or so.

"All right, he is advancing, great. Oh, the shield killed him. Does it always kill him? Too risky, let's leave that out."

*97 Bookers die in the next firefight*

"Ok. Let's try the shield again."

It really explains why they're so silly the majority of the times you do see them. They've done that song and dance hundreds upon hundreds of times.

And the weirdness of how they talk (e.g., the "He DOESN'T row" vs "He doesn't ROW").
 
HOLY FUCK, I jut remembered something!

Remember when the Luteces asked you to choose Heads or Tails? Remember how many times it was marked on the board he was carrying? Oh man....

Sorry if anyone else posted that already.
 
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