yea it really is ice cold from Rein..
Kotaku: The Wii U Won't Be Getting Unreal Engine 4
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yea it really is ice cold from Rein..
AZ Greg
Member
There are different expectations now. Gamecube #s weren't a huge drop from N64 #s. However, returning to GC #s after the 100 million unit moving Wii is devastating. And is the reason Iwata is on borrowed time.
I don't see how that makes things better. It's still nintendos fault for not meeting the debs demands.
JordanN
Banned
So this thread finally winds down, but, why do I have a feeling this is just the beginning?
No matter the evidence shown, there's still going to be a bandwagon of people who defend low power hardware, and they'll keep shouting "gamecube" as a war cry.
2013,2014,2015,2016,2017 till the next Nintendo consoles comes out and the cycle of stupid begins again.
It's pretty lame that the gaming industry, of all business industries, has to put up with this.
If someone told you a car company was releasing a car with no wheels, you'd think they're insane.
No matter the evidence shown, there's still going to be a bandwagon of people who defend low power hardware, and they'll keep shouting "gamecube" as a war cry.
2013,2014,2015,2016,2017 till the next Nintendo consoles comes out and the cycle of stupid begins again.
It's pretty lame that the gaming industry, of all business industries, has to put up with this.
If someone told you a car company was releasing a car with no wheels, you'd think they're insane.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Yeah, no. Generation for humans is different than generation in technology. A new generation in technology has always meant and will always mean a massive leap in power, regardless how much spin you and others put, the result will be the same. The WiiU is current gen together with the PS360, deal with it.
It´s not up to you to decide that. Technology has decided that long time ago.
So lets just say this, lets say your 30 years older than this 20 year old, but the 20 year old is as strong or stronger than you, does that make you the same generation as the 20 year old?
I'd definitely agree with the last one. Gaming is already becoming an art field and most art fields have settled on industry standard tools that even the up-and-coming students can use. Unity has a great program for getting newcomers into their program and they even sat next to Nintendo at GDC. This comment from Epic might even be a direct response to that close relationship. I think most people here see it as Nintendo incompetence, though. That's something that I'll never get because Nintendo has always came off to me as highly competent, just with a different set of priorities.
Compared to Nintendo's last Gen offering the WiiU is vastly more powerful.
Thus by your logic being Next gen, I'm glad we can agree
metalslimer
Member
The generation debate remains the stupidest and useless debate on gaf. Who gives a shit if it is or isnt? Like seriously does it hurt some people mentally to say that it is or vice versa?
I actually totally agree. They had successfully sold the premise and potential of the Wiimote. They should of doubled down. What they needed was Wii Sports Plus with amazing online and social integration.
Really to the point.
I'm suprised its not banned on the forum yet. The argument serves no other purpose other than to derail threads.
MisterHero
Super Member
Nintendo screwed up. That's a fact. That doesn't excuse
A solid port could be appreciated, even if the only addition was off-TV play. The pad has traditional controls. There's a seperate traditional controller. The Wiimote can simulate steering and aiming. The screenpad can reproduce Silent Scope's interface. Every 3rd-party game does not need every feature.
Wait. Maybe it is Nintendo's fault. Their Pokemon team apparently refuses to make a new Pokemon Snap.
Dion Blaster
Member
I've been thinking about this, how much trouble is Nintendo really in? Even if they don't sell a lot of consoles they will probably be profitable. I'm wondering how much they really had to gain by beefing up the console for third parties that they already have poor relations with. The sales are absolutely abysmal right now, but the entire selling point of the console is not even on the market yet: Nintendo games. Once the heavy hitters are out and it still sells like shit I would be worried.
This is all in terms of dollars, obviously. In terms of being a well-rounded console it looks like that ship has already passed.
This is all in terms of dollars, obviously. In terms of being a well-rounded console it looks like that ship has already passed.
Aquamarine
Member
It's too early to tell. After all, the system only launched 4 months ago. Come back Holiday 2013 / March 2014, and we'll have the first indications as to how much a lack of core support for the Wii U will really hurt Nintendo's bottom line.
Seems Nintendo got the worst of both worlds this time around: an underpowered system without an interesting gimmick that they could fall back on. They should have went with a powerful system and ditched the tablet or whatever's supposed to be the hook for the Wii-U.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Compared to Nintendo's last Gen offering the WiiU is vastly more powerful.
Thus by your logic being Next gen, I'm glad we can agree
It´s funny how next gen expression means massive leap in technology everywhere in the electronic and engineering industry, but apparently that does not apply to Nintendo. The PS4 and Durango will be massive leap over the PS360 therefor they are next gen.
Spin as much as you want the fact still remains the same. The WiiU is current gen together with the PS360.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Thinking about all those developers cackling at the thought of Frostbite on Wii U has made my day.
Expect we are not spinning it, Wii U is next gen if you like it or not.
If the Wii 3 was more powerful than the PS5, the PS5 would still be a 9th gen system.
The N64 was a lot more powerful than the PS1/Saturn, that doesn't mean the PS1/Saturn were 4.5 gen while N64 was true 5th gen.
And wouldn't technology also mean controller? From what I can see the Gamepad is more "next gen" than the DS4.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I would would say a mixture of all. It´s dumb that Nintendo was not prepared for HD development even though HD development has been around for 6 years. They should have known how much studios have struggled with delays etc.... to get their games out for the PS360, yet they apparently did not notice or chose not to do anything about it.
Except it´s not next gen. It´s funny how next gen in technology applies to everything but Nintendo.
Did you read my post?
I'm done with this, this whole "Is Wii U next gen?" talk is getting so old, that I think I quit.
Gaming generations have always been based on cycles. Unfortunately you cannot change this and it would go the same for Sony or MS if they launched a newer console with less intensive specs.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I´m done too.
False.
Word for thoughts, if the WiiU is next gen, then why EA, Epic and probably rest of the industry consider it last gen?
Ahahahha, no.
It had a faster CPU and GPU than the Playstation. What screwed it over was horrible memory bandwidth and hard limits on texture size, and the limited storage capacity of cartridges, of course.
In midst of the PS4, Next-box, cellphones, and tablets? It'll sell to those hardcore ninty fans like you said. But I don't even know if the casuals will pick it up for mario kart at this point, and considering both the PS4 and Nextbox have cameras in the box, dance games are out of the question for the WiiU as well. There will be little to nil media attention on this console come the holiday. People will be blasted with articles on the PS4/Nextbox, not to mention any newer, more powerful tablets/phones.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
When people talk about next generation engines, they're talking about hardware power. Wii U is not next gen hardware to the extent of PS4 and presumably 720. That's just the fact. You can argue about console generations and whatever all you like, but in this case Wii can not be called next gen.
shinra-bansho
Member
Mario is already on the system.
Who gives a shit. Call it whatever you like.
- It's still not a technological improvement traditionally associated with a console transition.
- It's still comparable in power to the current generation systems.
- UE4 isn't on it. Frostbite 3 isn't on it. Fox Engine isn't on it as far as one can tell. And so on.
- It's likely not getting comparable games to the PS4 and Durango.
People like to argue semantics instead of addressing the actual meaning.
When someone says "Wii U is not next gen" everyone knows what someone is saying is:
- It's not a traditional leap in power.
- It's comparable to the current gen systems in power.
- It's not going to be getting the the same games as the Gen4, or whatever one wants to call them, systems.
While, conversely, someone insistent on calling the Wii U "next gen," can only really be saying:
- It's a new Nintendo console.
- It's chronologically releasing quite a lot later than the PS3 and 360.
- It's more powerful than the PS3 and 360, however, marginally so.
- It will get support and next-gen games alongside the PS4 and Durango.
Just came to post this and say that developers that aren't Epic and EA think the Wii U is next gen.
Team Ninja: Wii U Is "Definitely Next Generation"
Gearbox
And the weirdest thing of all even though EA comment might not matter now.
EA Says Wii U Is Absolutely Next-Gen
Ok now I just wanted to say that, I am done.
Team Ninja: Wii U Is "Definitely Next Generation"
Gearbox
And the weirdest thing of all even though EA comment might not matter now.
EA Says Wii U Is Absolutely Next-Gen
Ok now I just wanted to say that, I am done.
Developers sometimes classify generations by hardware power, because they are actively working to create the best visuals for the hardware. If a console is more similar to older consoles it'd make more sense to classify it in the same area as those other consoles (so you'd know where you could port your games to and which machines could approx handle it).
Gamers and the industry as a whole have generations in cycles, and thus are decided by time. Any other factors like hardware aren't what decide it. Unless you're a developer it makes no sense to classify it by power.
*insert definitions of the words 'next' and 'generation'*
Dave Meltzer
Banned
I clicked your first link
"If youre basing this simply on processor speed, then its not next generation. If youre basing this on Wii U being a new idea that challenges existing platforms, then it definitely is next generation. "
Did you even read this shit or did you just try to find headlines to prove your predetermined opinion?
you're both right. mario is selling consoles, going by sales. last month the game sold almost 1:1 with hardware sales in the us. i think people need a bit of the spectacle that ead tokyo provides. so a shiny new 3d mario alongside other more concise wii u information would probably do the system good. although to be fair, that spectacle would have come in handy a year ago when they were trying to make their new console look good at e3.
shinra-bansho
Member
EA refers to the PS4 and Durango "Gen 4" internally. They do not ascribe such term to the Wii U.
I just really don't see how the people who would buy a system for Super Mario Universe, aren't essentially the same people who are currently buying a system for NSMBU.
I simply don't see more Mario to be a panacea against the wholesale lack of third-party support we're seeing. I do not think, regardless of how strong people think Nintendo's first-party is - and to an extent I agree there is strength - that it is sufficient to sustain a home console.
I just really don't see how the people who would buy a system for Super Mario Universe, aren't essentially the same people who are currently buying a system for NSMBU.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
It matters when people ignore the context the phrase is used in and try to dismiss opinions.
Ugh I should try and find a gif to convey this opinion, brb
Processor speed means GPU, ram amount, etc?
Edit: Dat Dave Meltzer putting me in this thread again lol.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
There's nothing in his quote that implies any part of the system is next gen other than the controller being different. If you want to take that as him saying it is next gen hardware then by all means go ahead.
nintendo might be able to sustain a console all on their own, but they'd need to drop their handheld to do it. but that's beside the point.
i agree that the lineup that did so well on the wii won't make much of a dent in the market on the wii u. i think there's a ton of not even market confusion, but unawareness regarding the console, and that it will be quietly forgotten as it tries to get its footing this holiday with two or three new consoles launching.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
The industry contracted because the WiiU is selling like shit, and the 3DS is selling less YOY. The Vita is barely selling. That´s what shrunk the market. When next gen come, the contraction would be much smaller due to higher priced consoles alone. That´s not taking into consideration how much they will sell. If the PS4 and Durango sold a million each this holiday, then the overall market will produce more money due to higher prices, and a lot of new software.
For further info click here, and here.
Everyone sold less hardware and less software overall. It's true that the Wii U and Vita are doing really terribly and the 3DS has slipped as well, but you can't pin this solely on them. Look at the actual NPD numbers from year to year if you don't believe me.
shinra-bansho
Member
Found EA's quote.
Gen 1: PS1, Saturn, N64
DC?
Gen 2: PS2, GCN, XBOX, Wii
Gen 3: PS3, 360, Wii U
Gen 4: PS4, XBOX3
DICE apparently defines generations from the emergence of 3D on consoles. Presumably:
Gen 1: PS1, Saturn, N64
DC?
Gen 2: PS2, GCN, XBOX, Wii
Gen 3: PS3, 360, Wii U
Gen 4: PS4, XBOX3
I partially agree. While, to a degree, there may be a lack of awareness, I think people citing a lack of awareness as the key issue are really ignoring problems with the product itself. I think potential consumers who are currently aware of it simply do not find it an appealing product, and that even when more potential consumers are made aware of it, they similarly won't.
shinra-bansho
Member
More 7th gen home consoles sold this January and February NPD than the number of 6th gen home consoles sold in the equivalent January and February of the XBOX 360's launch 7 years ago, and those 6th gen systems were less long-in-the-tooth.
EDIT: Oops double post.
The meaning behind any word is malleable and tends to change depending on context. Debates over finite definitions are never solvable because a perceived difference between "what is said" and "what is real" will always remain.
Calling the Wii U "next gen" is, for some, calling it a competent modern advancement over its previous generation - the Wii. This would include added functionality (Gamepad), improved abilities (eshop, miiverse, OS, etc), and more modern technology.
For others, the Wii U would only be next-gen if it matched specific bench marks provided by its nearest competitors, in this case the PS4 and Durango. The evidence that the most modern development tools are, one by one, not debuting on the Wii U is enough to convince many that it does not meet those bench marks.
In either scenario, both use the same language to describe something that is "real," and yet there is a perceived difference as to the meaning between the two groups. However, I would like to add my opinion that basing a word off ANY fixed definition of inferiority and not allowing others to input their opinions has historically led to some horrific events mostly to do with "ethnic cleansing."
[Edit] When you guys read my stuff, does it come across as boring as I just imagined? I need to stop writing at night when everything I think is long and drawn out. @_@
Calling the Wii U "next gen" is, for some, calling it a competent modern advancement over its previous generation - the Wii. This would include added functionality (Gamepad), improved abilities (eshop, miiverse, OS, etc), and more modern technology.
For others, the Wii U would only be next-gen if it matched specific bench marks provided by its nearest competitors, in this case the PS4 and Durango. The evidence that the most modern development tools are, one by one, not debuting on the Wii U is enough to convince many that it does not meet those bench marks.
In either scenario, both use the same language to describe something that is "real," and yet there is a perceived difference as to the meaning between the two groups. However, I would like to add my opinion that basing a word off ANY fixed definition of inferiority and not allowing others to input their opinions has historically led to some horrific events mostly to do with "ethnic cleansing."
[Edit] When you guys read my stuff, does it come across as boring as I just imagined? I need to stop writing at night when everything I think is long and drawn out. @_@
airmangataosenai
Member
Yeah, people fail to take into account where the contraction happened. The handheld console market has pretty much collapsed, and the Wii sensation ending. PS3 and 360 year over year figures are normal when looking at past generations.
Despite all of the hype, tablets haven't had any visible impact on console sales.
Going by some people here we would then have re-adjust every generation since the 2600.. but lets not go that far back for example and time sake since I need sleep ....the xbox had double the ram, a more powerful gpu / cpu and a harddrive so does this mean it is not from same gen as the ps2?
Dave Meltzer
Banned
There's no need to even talk about what generation a console is if you're just defining it by release date. So when anybody says Wii U isn't next gen, it's obvious what they mean, and pretty undeniable at this point they're right.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Please read those threads for further info.
For further info click here, and here.
Of course the PS360 are not selling as well as previous years but that does not mean that next gen consoles won´t sell well nor that the VG market value will continue shrinking.
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