GoddyofAus
Banned
Holy taking it out of context, Batwoman!
SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
Holy taking it out of context, Batwoman!
blame space
Banned
why are you trolling
If that's all you got from the ending than your shallow as hell..
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
This is another comment disagreeing with your post.
Not out of context at all. It's an amensia story alright, like a billion game stories before and the only reason you don't know stuff is because the game decides you don't get to know.
All that stuff about the game not having some big pull back the curtain reveal and that it was more elegant is nonsense. This ending is worthy of
Now I generally like the idea of Comstock becoming Booker conceptually and it fits his character. What is nonsense is saving that for the final blow of "revelation" rather than trying to resolve his character development in any meaningful way.
Imagine if from the start the game laid out some of these principles and the game was about a father and a daughter trying to reconcile after what he did. That is way more interseting than .shyamaln.gif which is exactly what this ending is.
Stabby McSter
Member
Way to sell it short, lol.
No, I totally understand the idea of DeWit's tragic downfall being that he tried to make amends and as a result became the man that Comstock was. I just think the way the story was handled was in general terrible.
blame space
Banned
no it's not more interesting because you're playing as a dude who doesn't know that. and you don't know that. and that's the whole point. god i don't know.
i don't believe you.
Absinthian
Neo Member
Every time you die in the game and walk through the office door and then respawn back in the same area with less money... I suppose this means
the Booker from the previous life is permanently dead and you are taking control of a Booker with slightly less silver in another dimension who is attempting to resolve the same issue.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Why don't the other characters have the same abilities as Elizabeth?
A piece of dust from their clothing, or shoes, or a skin cell, or hair could have fallen out while they were traveling between universes. Whats so special about a pinky?
A piece of dust from their clothing, or shoes, or a skin cell, or hair could have fallen out while they were traveling between universes. Whats so special about a pinky?
Every story ending and twist has been done before. Execution matters more than originality.
GoddyofAus
Banned
Not out of context at all. It's an amensia story alright, like a billion game stories before and the only reason you don't know stuff is because the game decides you don't get to know.
All that stuff about the game not having some big pull back the curtain reveal and that it was more elegant is nonsense. This ending is worthy of
Now I generally like the idea of Comstock becoming Booker conceptually and it fits his character. What is nonsense is saving that for the final blow of "revelation" rather than trying to resolve his character development in any meaningful way.
Imagine if from the start the game laid out some of these principles and the game was about a father and a daughter trying to reconcile after what he did. That is way more interseting than .shyamaln.gif which is exactly what this ending is.
No, you're taking it way out of context and you know it. Either you're trolling or you're worse then Derrick.
Yeah. It would have been great to have the Lutece arrive with a big counter with how many Bookers they had to go through before actually fixing everything. It totally fits their sarcastic behavior.
toastyToast
Member
My biggest problem with the game. Some say its because she was born in one dimension but lived in another but so did the male Letuuc
lol you're not gonna get an answer to that. Fiction logic. Same reason everyone doesn't instantly get infected in a zombie apocalypse from all bloody mist flying through the air. Because!
jacksepticeye
Member
Made a video showing off the visuals of Columbia, hope you guys like it 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFWN9ggUDdg&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFWN9ggUDdg&feature=youtu.be
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
By that theory, given how Booker gets to Comstock's reality, wouldn't he be able to as well?
or it could be a gameplay mechanic. I dunno....o_0
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
By the way, I could care less if any of those questions are answered.
I will still love everything about the game.
I will still love everything about the game.
blame space
Banned
fucking horse detective. man i love this guy. best new poster.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Dude have you ever looked through my post history?
My username is 100% ironic. Read some of the bullshit I cover this forum with, you'll see that I am borderline retarded.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
While I agree that Booker's unreliable narrator stance is a tad irksome given his more fleshed out 'personality' compared to Jack from Bioshock, it's done so with a purpose.
Instead of pulling the curtain out from under the player, Ken used Elizabeth and kept things focused on her revelations/story rather than Booker's to peel back the layers of the narrative slowly. The game is much more about Elizabeth than your redemption as Booker until the connection is made, which makes the revelations that all the things she's suffered have been on you, her father, that more poignant.
Also, Booker was a boozed up wreck of a man who'd spent 20 years wallowing in his failure/guilt, so it's not too surprising that he'd try to fabricate some other story to keep his mind off of his sold kid.
It is eye-opening to realize that non-baptized Booker would consider selling Anna in the first place, but who knows, maybe he thought she'd have a better shot at life or something.
Male Lutece grew up in his own universe though, while Liz developed in a different universe altogether. Lutece also suffered pains upon entering Female Lutece's universe (aka the nosebleeds etc.), while Liz never suffers any of that, since her counterpart never exists due to Comstock's sterility.
There's also that showing of Liz's first menstruation and how when tear energy is applied through it, it disappears, suggesting that her development is altered by her growing up in Columbia in some physical way, and that she was experimented on by Luteces.
Instead of pulling the curtain out from under the player, Ken used Elizabeth and kept things focused on her revelations/story rather than Booker's to peel back the layers of the narrative slowly. The game is much more about Elizabeth than your redemption as Booker until the connection is made, which makes the revelations that all the things she's suffered have been on you, her father, that more poignant.
Also, Booker was a boozed up wreck of a man who'd spent 20 years wallowing in his failure/guilt, so it's not too surprising that he'd try to fabricate some other story to keep his mind off of his sold kid.
It is eye-opening to realize that non-baptized Booker would consider selling Anna in the first place, but who knows, maybe he thought she'd have a better shot at life or something.
Male Lutece grew up in his own universe though, while Liz developed in a different universe altogether. Lutece also suffered pains upon entering Female Lutece's universe (aka the nosebleeds etc.), while Liz never suffers any of that, since her counterpart never exists due to Comstock's sterility.
There's also that showing of Liz's first menstruation and how when tear energy is applied through it, it disappears, suggesting that her development is altered by her growing up in Columbia in some physical way, and that she was experimented on by Luteces.
oh you
toastyToast
Member
Ah, I see where you're coming from. I suppose there isn't going to be a good reason for why someone can bend space-time at a whim. Even amidst all this psuedo-science that I'm willingly accepting, Elizabeth being 'special' isn't really cutting it.
So why does Booker lose his memory when apparently nobody else who goes through tears does (other than for the convenience of the narrative, I mean)? He forgets/confuses his wife, his history with his daughter, ect. Until the game decides that it is time for him to magically remember this information and pull a "ta da!" on the player. Elizabeth is also one of the biggest writing crutches I have ever seen. She explains/understands things she has no real reason to know about and conveniently can warp to the right time and place because "fulfillment."
It also didn't help that I actually had to read that wikia linked to the last page to fully understand who, how and why Booker was sent to Columbia because the game sure as hell never clearly explains that it is the twins who are sending him there to prevent the terrible future Elizabeth will cause.
WrenchNinja
Member
Just finished it. So the whole multiverse being brought up, convergent event with the baptism, Booker is Comstock, Elizabeth is Anna, metanarrative of a lighthouse, man, city with BioShock series...is why everyone is creaming their pants over the game's story? Hmm. I guess it was okay.
I just was sort of expecting something like holy shit mind blown like 999 or something by the way journalists and people were beating around the bush.
I just was sort of expecting something like holy shit mind blown like 999 or something by the way journalists and people were beating around the bush.
GoddyofAus
Banned
That is a holy shit mind blown series of revelations, depending on your standards.
blame space
Banned
welp it's been nice knowing you guys.
Okay I need to nail this part down.
Bookers wife passed away during child birth. Wouldn't it make sense for her to appear as a ghost in this alternate universe?
I feel like people keep saying that it makes no sense whatsoever she was ghost..but if Comstock=Booker, and Booker wife is dead...than why wouldn't she be ghost
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
I thought it only happens the first time you enter a tear...
Doesn't male Lettuce say this?
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Replaying in 1999 mode, just noticed that little floating model of some buildings in Soldier's Field has a few tiny posters of one of Comstock's old designs before he grew a BIG BUSHY BEARD.
toastyToast
Member
It's a less narratively satisfying 999 packaged in a better game
greycolumbus
The success of others absolutely infuriates me.
I wonder if Ken Levine was really into Fringe.
GoddyofAus
Banned
It actually is explained to you why he's there, in the ending. Were you playing with your food during the ending sequence?
Actually when does Booker supposedly go through the tear? Before the game begins or at the top of the tower?
I don't agree with all of your criticisms, but I'd love to know if there's an in-story explanation as to why Booker loses his memories but others do not.
As for "who" sent Booker to Columbia, and why, if you didn't pick that up during the flow of the story then you weren't paying a lot of attention.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
I think female Lutece says that they got 'scattered', or something to that nature, when Fink blew up the time machine. Essentially, something similar to what happened to Liz's pinky, hence their ability to appear/disappear out of nowhere, and reach out to other universes with Bookers in them.
They're basically ghosts in the machine that is the multiverse.
It says in the beginning of the game from one of the Luteces' quotes that "the mind will make up memories to adapt to its situation", or something to that nature. Booker was a boozed up wreck who couldn't come to terms with what he'd done, and in addition, upon entering a universe with one of his alternate selves, Comstock, he was absorbing new sets of memories, hence his whacked out state that you see when the male Lutece drags him into Columbia-universe at the end.
The Lutece's motivations are hidden in potentially missable voxophones, true.
But using those, the Male Lutece gives the female one an ultimatum to help Liz/stop Comstock or he's leaving her after the two of them get 'scattered', and are thus able to see through the tears to what Elizabeth is capable of doing.
Since she really likes being around her brother-self, female Lutece agrees, and they pull Booker back in.
He goes through, the Luteces then drag him out to the rowboat while he's re-compiling his memories, and then make it appear like he wakes up while they are rowing (back) to the lighthouse.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
Before the game begins. The game literally starts minutes after you entered your first tear.
The Lutece twins have the ability she has because they were scattered in space/time when Comstock tried to have them murdered. Hence why they're everywhere.
Elizabeth was also scattered through space-time.
The female Lutece states that she's special because of what she is not meaning because a piece of her exists in a different space/time.
It's not like we have to figure this stuff out, it's stated outright in the game.
Well that would have definitely helped to know. So apparently my version of this convoluted narrative had some key information left out because I didn't scrounge around every environment carefully enough to find magic voice recordings that explain things.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
I think she likes being around her male self a little more than we understand
MUST find more recordings
MUST find more recordings
rohlfinator
Member
He's not the only one -- pretty sure there's a voxaphone about Robert Lutece having the same effect, and arguably Comstock has constructed some of his own memories as well. No one else really goes through tears (well, except Liz, but she's a time lord so maybe she's immune).
blame space
Banned
let's be real we all know the lettuce twins are a little too close
The mind of the whiner will desperately try to find nits where none exist to pick.
The game has flaws, but the way it layers in plot information without getting bogged down in hour-long Kojima-thons is not one of them.
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