Support NeoGAF

[op_ivy]

sword base was only good for shitting on bad kids. any competitive match was just terrible on that map

 

[wwm0nkey]

Holy shit!

 

[Plywood]

what a nerd

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Reminds me of Battlefield 3 on PC:

Granted, it's not perfect. But just imagine something like this for Halo, anyway. The only partial downside to Battlefield's system is no matchmaking algorithm (as far as I know).

That is almost spot on for how I see the Halo toggles working. From there you enter a playlist as normal that is split between Ranked vs Social and bam the system has tons of criteria to match players, create hopper pools within playlist hoppers and really give players what they want to play without scraping matchmaking systems or introducing tons of "junk custom made games or servers" like custom browsers do.

Thanks for the screen grabs of BF3 PC, I've only BF3 on console.

Now they need only combine all that with XBL Gold and a new XBL Platinum official/player hosted servers/xbox's and we have a winning formula with Halo 5. If they could combine tournaments online including clans, sharing, spectating, entry fees vs. free tournies, rewards/prizes etc then they'd really make some leaps and bounds in the social AND competitive scenes.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Holy shit!

The scale of these things always intrigues me.

That is almost spot on for how I see the Halo toggles working. From there you enter a playlist as normal that is split between Ranked vs Social and bam the system has tons of criteria to match players, create hopper pools within playlist hoppers and really give players what they want to play without scraping matchmaking systems or introducing tons of "junk custom made games or servers" like custom browsers do.

I actually really like how this sounds. So we really wouldn't need to worry about a voting/veto system and dashboarding when SWAT Uncaged was picked.

 

[Syphon Filter]

that armor looks just as shit as the ingame one's.

 

[Twilight Gap]

that armor looks just as shit as the ingame one's.

­

 

[Tawpgun]

Khaleeeesiiiii

 

[ArbiterMajor]

Khaleeeesiiiii

Can't wait for today's ep.

 

[DeadNames]

sword base was fun for swat.

and oddball.

 

[Thug Waffle]

what a nerd

I was scrolling down so slow that it magnified the comedic impact of this statement tenfold. Bravo, sir.

That can't honestly be to scale, right?

 

[Snoshado]

I was scrolling down so slow that it magnified the comedic impact of this statement tenfold. Bravo, sir.

That can't honestly be to scale, right?

The Master Chief is a pretty big guy.... 10' tall if I recall correctly!

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

I actually really like how this sounds. So we really wouldn't need to worry about a voting/veto system and dashboarding when SWAT Uncaged was picked.

Thanks, however, I still see the voting option being relevant but executed similar to the Halo 4 Castle DLC playlist. Example:

1. First voting screen with 1 map and 3 gametypes/variants voting options.
2. Only 1 veto voting option as well.
3. Second voting screen with a new 2nd map and 3 gametypes/variants voting options.

Essentially the players were already matched on their toggle selections/minimums and the playlist they entered. The voting is still relevant to narrow the spread amongst players that had things in common such as maps or gametypes or regions etc. This would minimise quitters, dashboarding and maximise party/player choices too.

This way there is wide player pools, minimums to preserve the system, voting for the cross over matches and a veto to select from two map choices. To me this provides a fast, customisable well designed matchmaking system for developer pipelines and player choices alike. I think it has serious merit and could provide the sort of player retention Halo has been seeking since mid-late life Halo 3. Party and team matching would require some fleshing out but perhaps a "consensus of toggles" gets formed for partied up players or just use the party leaders toggles for matchmaking there.

To take a line from Juices

Spoiler

Frankie PM me

.

Further imagine if the toggles were made into sliders ranging from "never want to play" to "want to play the most", this could provide even wider queries of matching through toggle weighting too. I'd recommend simple on/off toggles for simplicity and user friendliness though.

 

[Mix]

HOLY FUCKIN JESUS THOSE FEELS AT THE END OF BIOSHOCK INFINITE

I cannot even begin to describe that game and it's story. absolutely phenomenal.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Reach! 1 hourz.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

So I'm playing Binary Domain and the game is having a down moment at a coffee shop that's a real brand (Tully's). Dat in game advertising. Cup of Noodle is there too.

 

[User 73706]

Doodled up an Elite concept.

He'd be a Seraph Pilot-gone-Zealot siding with the UNSC following the war. In-game (both in terms of story and gameplay) he'd probably occupy the "Team Dad" role that Jorge had.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Doodled up an Elite concept.

He'd be a Seraph Pilot-gone-Zealot siding with the UNSC following the war. In-game (both in terms of story and gameplay) he'd probably occupy the "Team Dad" role that Jorge had.

looks better than the crap design elite in halo 4.

 

[Dongs Macabre]

Doodled up an Elite concept.

He'd be a Seraph Pilot-gone-Zealot siding with the UNSC following the war. In-game (both in terms of story and gameplay) he'd probably occupy the "Team Dad" role that Jorge had.

Maybe incorporate some human technology in there?

 

[Nowise10]

looks better than the crap design elite in halo 4.

Yeah, those darn design elites really were crap.

 

[BlueScrote]

Doodled up an Elite concept.

He'd be a Seraph Pilot-gone-Zealot siding with the UNSC following the war. In-game (both in terms of story and gameplay) he'd probably occupy the "Team Dad" role that Jorge had.

But every Halo player I've seen in person nowadays is just plain weird.

hmm...

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Lunchtime...

 

[TCKaos]

There was a post made by someone not terribly too long ago that went through exactly the reasoning why bloom was a horrible idea (something to do with it being inconsistent and unreliable on a precision weapon and promoting shitty behavior or something).

Does anyone have that on standby? I need it for something.

 

[Twilight Gap]

Lunchtime...

Wonder what they said when their mom told them not to play with their food.

 

[LD2k]

I might be late to the party, but anyone else have this issue on Settler?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUeboxfVXaw

Despite that odd game, really LOVING this map.

 

[EagleBurnn]

finally getting around to ACIII. All I can think about is how good Brotherhood is/was. That game might be in my top 5 of this gen.

Can you explain why you think Brotherhood is better than AC2? I find AC2, Bioshock, and Fallout 3 to be the best single player experiences this gen and I like Brotherhood, but it doesn't touch the charm AC2 had.

 

[Purplemage]

So we playing any Reach or 4 tonight guys?

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

Anyone playing Halo 4 today?

 

[User 73706]

hmm...

You have thousands of replies to pick from to respond to the "irl halo players are plain weird" thing and that's the one you call me out on? For shame.

Doodled one more for tonight.

This dude's likewise with the UNSC and part of your "squad." Has some daddy issues because he's an engineer rather than a traditional Elite warrior. Eventually cracks a Forerunner hardware issue and manages to get a piece of Promethean tech working without Humanity's magic touch, which obviously makes him a high-profile target for the Covenant.

Got a bit of inspiration from this concept for a Reach elite, particularly the helmet.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

In Reach lobby now. All invites messages to ForwardUntoDong.

 

[Tawpgun]

In Reach lobby now. All invites messages to ForwardUntoDong.

Don't be fooled.

If you join this man, you will play 100% bloom. RIP.

 

[Purplemage]

Switching to Reach around mode now.

Don't be fooled.

If you join this man, you will play 100% bloom. RIP.

But...I like Reach. Fuck 100% bloom though

 

[Tunavi]

Wonder what they said when their mom told them not to play with their food.

I'd tell you not to quit your day job, but looking at your post count, you probably dont have one

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

I hate to harp but I feel my toggles idea above tackles this very issue at its core and delivers the best of breed for matchmaking and custom games browser while still providing that even field for progression or ranked vs. social split.

Further the devs could speed up the community cartographer (ranked) and action sack (social) pipelines to official toggles that change as a playlist changes. This basically irons out all the crap made from customs but provides the community/devs a fixed set of playlists/maps/settings and gives the player(s) choice of what that want to play within that all derived from the community or official maps too.

Force regular updates when those "custom" playlists update, which should be small downloads or done via map packs for that scenario.

Yup, you have some solid ideas. These ideas and suggestions to Bungie/343 have been around for years though, so really it's just another one of the UNKNOWNS of Halo.. Why resources weren't put into XBL Public and advancing what was once cut is beyond me. Such a great idea with a bright future.

RIP

So we playing any Reach or 4 tonight guys?

Hi.


-EDIT-

Switching to Reach around mode now.

But...I like Reach. Fuck 100% bloom though

Oh just noticed this.. ;'[

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Don't be fooled.

If you join this man, you will play 100% bloom. RIP.

Oh you can just pace your shots. That way they all hit.

 

[PNut]

Inv i'll give it another shot.

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

Haven't played Reach in a while. I've been praising it lately on here, let's see if I can tolerate the game now. ;P

 

[Booshka]

There was a post made by someone not terribly too long ago that went through exactly the reasoning why bloom was a horrible idea (something to do with it being inconsistent and unreliable on a precision weapon and promoting shitty behavior or something).

Does anyone have that on standby? I need it for something.

Here, little post searching goes a long way.

Here's a post I wrote on bloom in Reach a while back and why I hate it in any form in Halo games.

"One of the most palpable and controversial additions to Halo Reach has been precision weapon bloom. As your rate of fire increases, the deviation of your bullet trajectory also increases. To understand why this is problematic, we need to first understand what the role of a precision weapon is.

Precision weapons have one function that is inherent to their very nature; they are supposed to provide the player with a reliable weapon that demands and rewards accuracy. Bloom is the antithesis to both of these tenets; it reduces reliability and reduces accuracy.

But! You may scream; the weapon is perfectly accurate and reliable when you control the bloom. I agree, however, there is one major problem; shooting while bloomed does not ensure you will miss. In fact, shooting with slight bloom is preferable the majority of the time due to the rate of fire benefits. Suddenly, our precision weapon has neither precision nor reliability when used most effectively. At that point, it is not longer a precision weapon but it still rewards headshots, which are now almost completely random. The outcome of two players aiming exactly the same and shooting exactly the same is random, which is unacceptable for precision weapons.

The role of bloom is to punish players for missing shots and spamming the trigger. The more you miss and spam, the less accurate your gun becomes. While this is a decent principle in general, it requires weapons that can kill quickly to operate properly. In Reach, bloom doesn’t just punish missed shots, it punishes everyone because it is literally impossible to kill someone with the DMR or Pistol before bloom becomes a factor. What this means is that in every 1v1 encounter, bloom is going to be the determining factor; you either spam your shots and play the odds, or you pace your shots and risk the other player’s odds. Either way, chance is what determines the outcome.

When bloom is applied to weapons that kill rapidly, like in Call of Duty or even the Reach sniper rifle, it begins to make sense. Accurate players can kill enemies before bloom becomes a factor. Players who miss shots get punished with bloom. When bloom is applied to precision weapons that kill slowly, like the DMR and Pistol, it doesn’t work because every player, regardless of accuracy, is punished with bloom.

With such lengthy kill times and bloom playing such a central role, many players have fallen back on the argument that “controlling” bloom is a skill. Controlling the bloom is not so much a skill as it is a risk assessment and risk tolerance test; essentially risk management of a randomize outcome. A “skill” implies that you can increase your aptitude with experience and practice, which is simply not the case with bloom. Because of the inverse relationship between accuracy and rate of fire, you will never be able to rely on non-random elements in a firefight. As I pointed out earlier, even if you pace your shots completely, the enemy may choose to spam: chance enters the equation. Unless both players begin shooting at the exact same moment, it will always be beneficial for one player to spam.

There is no “perfect” bloom level that a player can fully rely on; if you choose to shoot at a medium pace to marginalize the effects of bloom, someone could choose to shoot at a rapid pace and beat you. There is nothing you can do to change that. That is not skill, its accepting a certain amount of randomization. That is never good for a competitive title and is unacceptable for the primary utility weapon.

Regardless, let’s pretend it is a skill. Does that mean that the skill value of controlling bloom is greater than the skill of controlling precision shots? The punishment for mismanaging bloom is not as severe as it is for missing a shot; mismanaged bloom, no matter how extreme, still gives the player a chance to win the fight. Missing a shot with a true precision weapon leaves no chance in the equation. If controlling bloom is a skill, it’s a secondary skill at best because you can never master it to such a degree that you can fully rely on it.

Not only does bloom destroy the basic function of Reach’s precision weapons, it encourages players to bring random chance into every battle. While bloom isn’t inherently unacceptable, it is when you combine it with the kill speed of the DMR and Pistol. Random chance should never be a fundamental aspect of Halo’s utility weapon, and removing bloom is the only acceptable solution for Reach to regain some competitive merit."

 

[Defect]

It's good for you.

­
Pistol Squed Alpha!

Reach was Halo, but just not a very good one.

I am missing Reach right now...and I HATED the game.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

And we're off!

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

Think I might try and set up XBL Connect.


What do you need for it? A laptop right, and an Ethernet cable? And the game?

Might try and set it up for some good old fashion Halo 2. Just need to go buy Halo 2 on Xbox again. Don't think I have it anymore.

 

[Tawpgun]

I'd tell you not to quit your day job, but looking at your post count, you probably dont have one

 

[Plywood]

Khaleeeesiiiii

So good.

I'd tell you not to quit your day job, but looking at your post count, you probably dont have one

oh shit

 

[TCKaos]

Here, little post searching goes a long way.

Thanks, I could have sworn it was in the last thread.

 

[Ozzy Onya A2Z]

Yup, you have some solid ideas. These ideas and suggestions to Bungie/343 have been around for years though, so really it's just another one of the UNKNOWNS of Halo.. Why resources weren't put into XBL Public and advancing what was once cut is beyond me. Such a great idea with a bright future.

RIP

I agree there are a ton of ideas out there, most not fleshed out with the development perspective in mind or approached as a complete feature though. I remember that article and series of interviews around Halo 3 matchmaking systems. I was championing region filters for Halo 3 back then, no luck until Reach though. I also championed a hitscan BR on B.net back then too, lost that fight as well.

I too am surprised that XBL, since Halo 3, hasn't really moved to integrate things like theatre, sharing and similar as part of the console or XBL service. It's not like XBL didn't have Halo 3 as a model for matchmaking upgrades with filters and theatre alone. They've done great things with cross game chat and compare players at XBL or in game levels however they've stagnated on the XBL version front for games. I suppose their focus has been on widening the appeal with streaming movies/TV, avatars, indie games, demos, apps etc.

I'd just like to see gaming return to the premier UI and feature set with the next generation XBL, console and Halo. Just like Halo 2 or Halo 3 they can define the experience further. We've seen Sony's hand and Halo/XBox have their work cut out come their feature-set reveal. I'm hoping for big things. I'd also like to see the return of some old-Halo statistics combined with the ranking system/TrueSkill e.g. percentage of shots hit, headshot percentages, MVP, ranking which medals to show in summary on post carnage (e.g. instead of just first strike), flags stolen (not just time with flag) etc.

I'll be gob smacked if things like clans, tournies, prizes, replays, sharing etc aren't just part of the base system for all games to utilise from here on out. This plays in direct response to your comments and I agree they've missed the opportunity in recent years but hopefully it comes back in a big way with next gen xbox/Halo.

Take Kinect for example; next gen it could be built into every xbox as standard then the XBL platform could easily include game commentary (Kinect mic with one or many speakers) and streaming (Kinect video camera. which is obviously sync'd to the gameplay) from live streaming or prerecorded rendering services/replays. To me it's just about business decisions and leveraging the existing technology to package it in a meaningful way. It's not totally viable in this gen as Kinect (mic & camera) aren't a standard on all consoles. It could also become part of the XBL Platinum idea I've had. Which leads to another upgrade in the BF3 style servers as part of the business model and next gen console/XBL service. I mean here is what gamers want, what tournaments want, what the web can leverage and it gives XBL more revenue streams and increases the average spend from their existing customer base all while moving the platform and the games themselves into the modern era.

Where exactly is the downside of such things come the launch of next gen Halo & xbox? I'd guess all the game developers would like a new XBL platform that takes care of their sharing, streaming, tournaments, rankings, commentary, machinima, P2P or server based players etc. It would save them a fortune in development, fixes and allow them to focus on their games instead of the industry standard features by having to keep up with the Joneses. Further even game API's could become part of the XBL system for re-purposing in games, websites, apps etc. Why make the developers build such things every single game?

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

^ Well said. Hopefully certain things can be built into the system B]

Think I might try and set up XBL Connect.


What do you need for it? A laptop right, and an Ethernet cable? And the game?

Might try and set it up for some good old fashion Halo 2. Just need to go buy Halo 2 on Xbox again. Don't think I have it anymore.

When I was your age I was scrubbing real Halo players. Grandpa Halo baby, babby.

 

[HTupolev]

And we're off!

If you want more persons,

GT=HaloTupolev

I'm online now.

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

I forgot that Halo had medals. Nice seeing them pop-up in Reach, I miss them. The medals in Halo 4 are lol worthy.

 

[Hydranockz]

I forgot that Halo had medals. Nice seeing them pop-up in Reach, I miss them. The medals in Halo 4 are lol worthy.

You 'forgot' is code for 'too young to remember', right?

 

[Speedy Blue Dude]

You 'forgot' is code for 'too young to remember', right?

I also forgot about Armor Effects. I want my Heart Attack back, Halo 4 can clearly have them, as you have Grunt's Birthday Party equipped in Fiesta in Action Sack.

I want Heart Attack back in Halo 5, 343 pls.


EDIT: I need to add some more HaloGAF users on Xbox Live, need more Halo friends. Anyone want to add me?

GT: SpeedyBlueDude