Evangelion 3.0 You Can (Not) Redo |OT| :Q

Status
Not open for further replies.
Replicant said:
I feel like we need another movie to explain the in-between stuff. Or a TV series.
Click to expand...

Yeah, really felt short.
I mean i'm not against the 14 years skip, but come on, at least give some info about what happend. Even if it kinda makes sense according to Shinji

Also got the feeling that it was written to be released with 4.0. I felt it wasn't really a opus of it's own.

Right now I just want Final...
 
I watched this when it was in theaters, so I haven't seen it super recently, but I remember really liking it. Maybe I just give it more leeway because it is trying to do something so different from the rest of the series.
I always saw Evangelion as a broader metaphor for Japanese society, and I just thought that Shinji not getting told anything fit into that mold. I may have to see it again and see if I missed something, but none of the plot holes I read so far are "Dark Knight Rises" level of justified yet. That might just be because Dark Knight is supposed to be a dark, more realistic approach, while Evangelion is based on Christian Space Magic.
 
TheShampion said:
I watched this when it was in theaters, so I haven't seen it super recently, but I remember really liking it. Maybe I just give it more leeway because it is trying to do something so different from the rest of the series.
I always saw Evangelion as a broader metaphor for Japanese society, and I just thought that Shinji not getting told anything fit into that mold. I may have to see it again and see if I missed something, but none of the plot holes I read so far are "Dark Knight Rises" level of justified yet. That might just be because Dark Knight is supposed to be a dark, more realistic approach, while Evangelion is based on Christian Space Magic.
Click to expand...
It's not so much about "Plot Holes" as it is
a totally cryptic lack of information about the world. Which you know.

I think it was done to make the audience feel just as alienated and confused about the world as Shinji himself. Which is fine, except that the lack of information drives him into the Eva and almost causes Fourth Impact... People being vague is not a great engine for driving the plot.
 
Averon said:
Why couldn't anybody sit Shinji down and explain shit to him? A lot of stuff likely would've been avoided if someone just did that. This goes especially towards Misato.
I know you and your group are pissed at him, but keeping him in the dark just makes it more likely Shinji would repeat his mistake.
Click to expand...

Most of them just really hate him.
He caused the end of the world; he's responsible for all of the shit that has happened. And it's not like he didn't know what he was doing. He may not know what Third Impact entails or that saving Rei would start all of that, but at the end of 2.22, he shouts "I don't care what happens to the world!" Following that with actually starting Third Impact, of course people will hate him.

TheShampion said:
I watched this when it was in theaters, so I haven't seen it super recently, but I remember really liking it. Maybe I just give it more leeway because it is trying to do something so different from the rest of the series.
I always saw Evangelion as a broader metaphor for Japanese society, and I just thought that Shinji not getting told anything fit into that mold. I may have to see it again and see if I missed something, but none of the plot holes I read so far are "Dark Knight Rises" level of justified yet. That might just be because Dark Knight is supposed to be a dark, more realistic approach, while Evangelion is based on Christian Space Magic.
Click to expand...

You think Eva 3.0 has LESS plot holes than Dark Knight Rises? :lol

BocoDragon said:
It's not so much about "Plot Holes" as it is
a totally cryptic lack of information about the world. Which you know.

I think it was done to make the audience feel just as alienated and confused about the world as Shinji himself. Which is fine, except that the lack of information drives him into the Eva and almost causes Fourth Impact... People being vague is not a great engine for driving the plot.
Click to expand...

I don't really think that's a catch-all excuse though. For the first half of the movie, making the audience as confused as Shinji works. But there's no reason to keep it that way once you've establishing that setting. And there are a handful of scenes where Anno actually has someone (Kaworu, Fuyutsuki, etc) explain things. So it's not as if Anno was against explaining things, he just wrote the explanations as vaguely as possible.
 
Just watched 1.11 & 2.22 again in preparation for Q. Man that ending of 2.22 still fucking gets me hyped to Timbuktu and back. The whole Zeruel scene...oh boy. Been listening to the Q soundtrack since its been available and it making me squeal in anticipation. Shits going to be insane. I'm seriously the biggest Eva nut out there. Ahhhhh can't wait!!!
 
Blader5489 said:
You think Eva 3.0 has LESS plot holes than Dark Knight Rises?
Click to expand...
No, it's not that. It is just the context Dark Knight Rises is trying to be more realistic while Evangelion is trying to be more surreal.

I think the difference to me is that Evangelion's "plot holes" are in service to something, and just don't bother me, while in Dark Knight, it did. It is maybe just a personal preference thing though.
 
Averon said:
Why couldn't anybody sit Shinji down and explain shit to him? A lot of stuff likely would've been avoided if someone just did that. This goes especially towards Misato.
I know you and your group are pissed at him, but keeping him in the dark just makes it more likely Shinji would repeat his mistake.
Click to expand...
Because lazy writing and drama.


Blader5489 said:
Most of them just really hate him.
He caused the end of the world; he's responsible for all of the shit that has happened. And it's not like he didn't know what he was doing. He may not know what Third Impact entails or that saving Rei would start all of that, but at the end of 2.22, he shouts "I don't care what happens to the world!" Following that with actually starting Third Impact, of course people will hate him.
Click to expand...
Never mind the fact that Misato was cheering him on.
 
Erigu said:
Never mind the fact that Misato was cheering him on.
Click to expand...

Cheering on that he was doing something for himself, not that he was going to end the damned world - Unit 01 didn't awaken and start triggering Third Impact until he opened up the core and extracted Giant Naked (Red) Rei, she probably didn't get what was happening until then.
 
​
Erigu said:
Because she didn't know. And neither did he. Which is why the hate he's getting is absurd.
Click to expand...

Well if you think about it from her point of view: after fourteen years she's face to face with the person who was right in the middle of that event and he was just sleeping away and didn't have to deal with any the aftermath nor the consequences of his actions. Because of her cheering him on, she's also had to take responsibility for what happened. That also wasn't the first time Misato experienced an Impact. The previous one took her father's life so how do you think she felt seeing another one of those traumatizing events taking place. Shinji is more or less a ticking time bomb in their eyes so it's no surprise that they're not taking any chances with him.

I'm not saying I agree with her actions but her point of view is pretty believable.

Now. Them not giving Shinji any information and having him stuck in the dark? That's harder to defend but then again Rei coming to get him so suddenly kinda threw a wrench into that whole thing.

That and I guess the movie wouldn't be as "exciting".
 
Guess Who said:
Cheering on that he was doing something for himself, not that he was going to end the damned world - Unit 01 didn't awaken and start triggering Third Impact until he opened up the core and extracted Giant Naked (Red) Rei, she probably didn't get what was happening until then.
Click to expand...

You would think that
if Misato or Ritsuko knew what was going to happen (and hell, Ritsuko is essentially in the loop about almost everything, but even she was at a loss when Unit-01 awoke), that they would have just told Shinji. Hell, if piloting an EVA has the potential to do that, why doesn't each and every pilot know the risks of the 40 meter giant robots they are piloting? Why even keep them in the dark about something like that?
 
Blader5489 said:
Most of them just really hate him.
He caused the end of the world; he's responsible for all of the shit that has happened. And it's not like he didn't know what he was doing. He may not know what Third Impact entails or that saving Rei would start all of that, but at the end of 2.22, he shouts "I don't care what happens to the world!" Following that with actually starting Third Impact, of course people will hate him.



You think Eva 3.0 has LESS plot holes than Dark Knight Rises? :lol



I don't really think that's a catch-all excuse though. For the first half of the movie, making the audience as confused as Shinji works. But there's no reason to keep it that way once you've establishing that setting. And there are a handful of scenes where Anno actually has someone (Kaworu, Fuyutsuki, etc) explain things. So it's not as if Anno was against explaining things, he just wrote the explanations as vaguely as possible.
Click to expand...

Speaking of which the
Fuyutsuki
scene was really poor writing and should have been beneath on Anno.
It's basically like "uh oh, I don't know where to fit these things in Rebuild so I'll just have a character sit and explain a ton of stuff to the audience"

3.33's script is surprisingly weak for a really talented writer. I think 2.22 huge success seriously put too much pressure on Rebuild.
 
Metroid-Squadron said:
I have a question:

What was that giant structure that fell on the Earth after the 4th(?) impact was stopped?
Click to expand...

As I understood it, that's Terminal Dogma, the core of the Black Moon where Nerv HQ was built, and where inside resided Lilith.


I enjoyed the movie, because of the change in tone. I believe Anno intended the viewer to be as confused as Shinji, and at least in that regard he succeeded. Things make more sense - and become much more interesting - on second viewing.
 
I enjoyed the movie, it's not bad. But it's kind of just "a thing" that exists solely to setup the final film and not much more. It's great looking, great sounding, has a couple of good action scenes, but very little character development (maybe as far as no character development at all outside Shinji) and most of the plot writing was kind of bad and created a lot of plot holes for Rebuild. Don't think it works too well as a standalone film, 1.11 and 2.22 worked better in that regard.
 
MechaX said:
You would think that
if Misato or Ritsuko knew what was going to happen (and hell, Ritsuko is essentially in the loop about almost everything, but even she was at a loss when Unit-01 awoke), that they would have just told Shinji. Hell, if piloting an EVA has the potential to do that, why doesn't each and every pilot know the risks of the 40 meter giant robots they are piloting? Why even keep them in the dark about something like that?
Click to expand...

Ritsuko DOES know, she's narrating it as it happens. :lol

I don't think all Evas can do that, just Unit 01. In the tv series it was because Unit 01 was the only Eva copied from Lilith instead of Adam, so fusing with an angel would cause third impact. I don't know what makes it special in Rebuild -- maybe it's one of the Adams?

Bebpo said:
Speaking of which the
Fuyutsuki
scene was really poor writing and should have been beneath on Anno.
It's basically like "uh oh, I don't know where to fit these things in Rebuild so I'll just have a character sit and explain a ton of stuff to the audience"

3.33's script is surprisingly weak for a really talented writer. I think 2.22 huge success seriously put too much pressure on Rebuild.
Click to expand...

ha, yeah, the placement seems kind of random but I think it's just to further add to Shinji's distress.
Gendo WANTS Shinji to pull the spears, he wants Fourth Impact to start and stop the way that it does. Fuyutsuki even laments having to shit on Shinji like that, like "why did I have to be the one to do that?" or something like that.

Metroid-Squadron said:
I have a question:

What was that giant structure that fell on the Earth after the 4th(?) impact was stopped?
Click to expand...

The Black Moon, the giant structure that houses Lilith and Central Dogma beneath NERV. In End of Evangelion, it was a giant black sphere; here it looks more like a corkscrew.
 
Guess Who said:
I really don't think these questions are supposed to be answered. The whole point is that you're supposed to feel as displaced and out of touch as Shinji, wondering what the hell's been going on while you were away and frustrated by the lack of answers. If you left this film feeling confused and unsatisfied, Anno did his job.
Click to expand...

Anno, the biggest fucking troll ever, but it still doesn't explain the utter bullshit that is the character's actions, the things the character does is utter nonsense, it's not what a normal person would do.
 
Blader5489 said:
Ritsuko DOES know, she's narrating it as it happens. :lol
Click to expand...

That's my point; Ritsuko only tells Shinji that he'll lose his human form (and Shinji's "I don't care about the world!" spiel was definitely in response to that). That... is really not the important thing you should be telling Shinji in that situation, when the most obvious thing you should be telling him is "I don't think you understand what's happening here, you're starting Third Impact which will kill most of what is left of humanity.
 
If anyone is expecting 4.0 to answer the questions, they will be wrong. It will answer some, introduce others, and you will be left yourself to fill the gaps and meaning.

It's one of the things I love about Evangelion.
 
Tabris said:
If anyone is expecting 4.0 to answer the questions, they will be wrong. It will answer some, introduce others, and you will be left yourself to fill the gaps and meaning.

It's one of the things I love about Evangelion.
Click to expand...
There were a couple "backstory" episodes in Eva TV, though.. So it's not implausible that they would, say, retroactively fill in the gaps between 2.0 and 3.0...

But it's not guaranteed, or anything. I agree with you that Eva is comfortable not revealing everything.
 
Evangelion 3.33

Come to think of it, I haven't really 'formally' made an impression for this movie.

Y'know.

The first time I watched I genuinely didn't think it was all that bad. Sure it had a lot of pacing problems and characterization problems but I liked it a lot. Then my friend and I decided to watch it (him watching it for the first time) and after my second viewing... I'm a lot more conflicted about it than I was before.

As much as it pains me to admit, the film really is a mess in terms of plot advancement and writing. Way too much ground between 2.0 and 3.0 is left uncovered, too many new plot points introduced that have no substance, too many questions left unanswered, and waaaayyyy too much cryptic dialogue that goes nowhere and means nothing at the end of the day. I actually like where the story has gone but the film itself just feels so mishandled. I could see this working as a single episode in a 26 episode series (hell maybe even a 12 ep. Series) but this is one fourth of a film series and when most of your audience is even more confused and alienated than before when the series is more than halfway through... I'm really not sure if that's a mark of a good film. Whether or not this was a sufficient set-up for things to come will yet to be determined when the last film is released but judging this as a stand-alone film, there are just too many problems bogging it down.

Yet.

For that reason, I'm very excited for 4.0. What lies beyond 3.33? Possiblity. Knowing full well that none of these questions and details will get any resolution just fills my head with all these potential ideas that could happen in the last film and I know that probably none of them will actually happen. This could all be an elaborate troll or some sort of bitter commentary on the fanbase again and that idea excites me for some reason. I don't know what goes on in Anno's head but the last film has a lot to live up to. 4.0 could very well be the biggest slap in the face to the fans (as if 3.0 wasn't enough for some) and I cannot wait for that.


All that said there were things I legitimately liked about the film. The soundtrack was amazing and arguably the best of the three films. Tracks like God's Message, From Beethoven's 9th, Kindred Spirits, and God's Gift (my personal favorite) all kick in at the right moments in the film and the more somber, darker sound of the OST really fits the atmosphere of the film.

As I mentioned, I'm really lenient when it comes to CG usage in anime and I liked a few of the designs in the film. I actually really liked
Wunder
's design both the exterior and interior (NGE has always had great UI designs). I realize that the ship and some of its crew are a throwback to older anime like Nadia (even down to the theme song being used.) I haven't watched it but I thought that was pretty cool. The new mecha designs are more or less okay. Eva
13
's design was pretty cool, Unit-08 would be a really nice design if it wasn't for that gaudy paint job but I guess that fits Mari's personality. And Unit-02's
Beast Beast mode
? Yeah I don't think there's anyone in their right mind who could defend that. Unit-02's seemingly endless suffering in this series continues.

Who knows maybe my opinion of this film could change when the last film hits but as for now, I'm really not sure what happened here. I guess if there's one thing for sure, while some people will hate this and while others will enjoy, I don't think anyone expected this. So I guess that's another victory for Anno.
 
Averon said:
Why couldn't anybody sit Shinji down and explain shit to him? A lot of stuff likely would've been avoided if someone just did that. This goes especially towards Misato.
I know you and your group are pissed at him, but keeping him in the dark just makes it more likely Shinji would repeat his mistake.
Click to expand...

But then how would there be a movie!
moonspeak said:
Evangelion 3.33

[...]

For that reason, I'm very excited for 4.0. What lies beyond 3.33? Possiblity.
Click to expand...


 
I watched the tv series.

This was years and years ago.

I have ABSOLUTELY no fucking idea what is going on. What is this evangelion 3.0? Was there a 1.0 and 2.0? What is going on? I'm confused.
 
Mikey Jr. said:
I watched the tv series.

This was years and years ago.

I have ABSOLUTELY no fucking idea what is going on. What is this evangelion 3.0? Was there a 1.0 and 2.0? What is going on? I'm confused.
Click to expand...

They're part of a new 4-part movie series, categorized under "Rebuild of Evangelion".

Evangelion 1.0 is the theatrical version, 1.11 is the extended DVD/Blu-ray version. Same thing for 2.0/2.22, 3.0/3.33, and eventually FINAL/FINAL.FINALFINAL (:lol, I don't know).
 
Quick said:
They're part of a new 4-part movie series, categorized under "Rebuild of Evangelion".

Evangelion 1.0 is the theatrical version, 1.11 is the extended DVD/Blu-ray version. Same thing for 2.0/2.22, 3.0/3.33, and eventually FINAL/FINAL.FINALFINAL (:lol, I don't know).
Click to expand...
Yup. And it should be said that they are partially remakes/partially alternate tellings of the TV show.
 
Quick said:
They're part of a new 4-part movie series, categorized under "Rebuild of Evangelion".

Evangelion 1.0 is the theatrical version, 1.11 is the extended DVD/Blu-ray version. Same thing for 2.0/2.22, 3.0/3.33, and eventually FINAL/FINAL.FINALFINAL (:lol, I don't know).
Click to expand...

How about FINAL PLUS?

Hue hue hue.
 
Quick said:
They're part of a new 4-part movie series, categorized under "Rebuild of Evangelion".

Evangelion 1.0 is the theatrical version, 1.11 is the extended DVD/Blu-ray version. Same thing for 2.0/2.22, 3.0/3.33, and eventually FINAL/FINAL.FINALFINAL (:lol, I don't know).
Click to expand...

Ok.....so these take place after Evangelion?
 
It was certainly different to the prior two movies, a smart & much needed change of pace. I'm loving how divisive the reception is quite frankly, I guess I see it as something akin to the ending~ of the original TV series which I wasn't able to experience at the time. I've seen lots of criticisms regarding how much we're left in the dark about details, and the behaviour of characters, but I feel like "Well... it's Eva?", and on the other hand it's Anno, I'm sure he's more than well aware of all this, as in he very much intended it. Is it fair to judge the movie by itself? Should it have been made to function solely on its own? I don't think we'll really know if it's the stinker people want to believe it is until the series is completed. Can't help but wonder if they are considering doing a 5th movie given the production problems they've had with 3 and 4. The End of the Rebuild of Evangelion doesn't seem that outlandish given the history of the series. Now only 3 more years....

[/blind casual Eva fan]
 
I've read a lot of comments from people who were really confused by the movie, for one reason or another, and I can't say I know where they're coming from. Obviously the plot of this movie wasn't really in-line with anyone's expectations but once you get past that I don't think there's too many elements of the story that are particularly confusing. I feel like a bit of an outlier and I'm not entirely sure why experience differs from other peoples in this respect.
 
It comes from a built-in expectation that because this is Eva, it has to mean something more.

Really, though, it's just a series of nonsense piled atop each other with anything of interest/intrigue being visual cues and background detail. And those are in the end nothing but takes on old motifs.
 
Jexhius said:
I've read a lot of comments from people who were really confused by the movie, for one reason or another, and I can't say I know where they're coming from. Obviously the plot of this movie wasn't really in-line with anyone's expectations but once you get past that I don't think there's too many elements of the story that are particularly confusing. I feel like a bit of an outlier and I'm not entirely sure why experience differs from other peoples in this respect.
Click to expand...
I have to agree,
it's mostly badly written and the plot is forced but the chain of events is not anymore confusing and obtuse than anything else Evangelion. Not a lot happens in 3.0 and what does happen isn't that hard to grasp. Most of the questions about what went down in the 14y gap that currently don't have answers are almost irrelevant to the outcome of this movie, so in that sense it's not hard to follow.
 
Such is the joy of having multiple threads to post impressions in, along with the main anime community thread.
 
Dunno if this was posted but it's not like I care.

tumblr_mlu83rlI951qavd02o1_250.gif
tumblr_mlu83rlI951qavd02o2_250.gif

tumblr_mlu83rlI951qavd02o5_500.gif


Moar @ http://peritian.tumblr.com/post/48895705871/this (some parts of that tumblr are NSFW)
 
Jexhius said:
I've read a lot of comments from people who were really confused by the movie, for one reason or another, and I can't say I know where they're coming from. Obviously the plot of this movie wasn't really in-line with anyone's expectations but once you get past that I don't think there's too many elements of the story that are particularly confusing. I feel like a bit of an outlier and I'm not entirely sure why experience differs from other peoples in this respect.
Click to expand...
Maybe they're confused by the lack of mystery and confusion.

Eva has never been so straight forward.

Qvoth said:
oh man... i remember really liking 1 and 2...
what the fuck happened
i won't say it's bad/terrible... just wtf
Click to expand...
I won't say it's terrible, but it's terrible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Poll
Do you think trauma can be passed on genetically?
2
65
1K
Kamina replied
What is the first cartoon or tv series you can remember when you were young
2 3
138
2K
Player Respawn replied
Can pets tell the age between each other?
11
348
Sticks replied
Jalapeños have gotten less hot, here's what you can do.
49
1K
j0hnnix replied
  • Poll
Are you single?
|OT|  2 3 4
156
9K
Big-G replied
Top Bottom