Metalmurphy
Member
You're gonna have to do better than that.
Forza Motorsport 5 announced
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
You're gonna have to do better than that.
don't know if its has been posted but the 1080p trailer version is up in the xbox wire site
http://news.xbox.com/media
http://news.xbox.com/media
No I don't, unless anyone wants boring to tears about software engineering..
The fact that Fanatec used a quite convoluted method of getting XID to drive their wheels, and you can also get a similar FFB effect using HID on the same wheel (albeit minus vibration) should be everything anyone needs to know to realise it's technically feasible (at an engineering level).
It's just not commercially viable in most cases for many reasons...
I'm going to write this down in point form, but here's why I think the pooch has been screwed regarding Forza on the new system:
*Forza as a brand still doesn't seem to have an identity, even after 5 titles. They're to be commended for trying a number of different ideas in their games, but these ideas are never evaluated in regards to how they fit into the entire game. No difficulty selection in FM4, random bowling/soccer stages in career mode, Kinect driving mode(?!?)... all potentially great ideas if they're executed well and make sense within the context of the game, but the Kinect mode wasn't even a part of the full game, bowling/soccer just shouldn't be in a sim of any kind and no difficulty in a game that has AI in single player? Design choices that should've been thought out better before they were included so haphazardly.
*On that note, all the PGR games have managed to hit the right note that they were aiming for. They've rarely been too ambitious or overshot the mark, always have a very specific game type they want to make with a target they consistently hit with laser-like precision. A PGR launch game would have more appeal for the casual market, proven style and would look impressive, even if only as a first-gen game. It would also give Turn 10 much needed development time (and information/assistance) that could only help.
*FM has no mass appeal to people who would buy a console and a bunch of launch titles day one. People need something they can put in and play without being overburdened with technicalities. FM is a sim (as far as console racers go) and there are concepts in it that, if you dumb them down, will change the type of game it is completely. So, FM5 (and potentially the entire franchise) is screwed. Either they dumb it down to appeal to a newer casual audience who just want a shiny new title to show off on their new console, or they cater to the more hardcore crowd, but alienate the vast majority of new console buyers in the process. If they're hoping to bank on the Forza name just to sell games to the masses... they're sorely mistaken. Forza isn't GT (despite having almost the same number of games out... think about that) and just doesn't have the recognition or pedigree associated with it. The GT series may have been somewhat dull presentation-wise, but at least they've been consistent and built upon what they already have, rather than trying to change too much of it. If you play GT1 and GT5, you can still see many similar elements in both, however much they may have evolved. No way in hell you could do that with FM1 and FM4... they don't even have a similar logo.
*No peripherals. You can't announce any kind of simulator and not at least hint at an appropriate control method. PGR games have generally had a more forgiving driving model, regardless of assists and rarely felt out of place with a controller. Forza, as good as it feels when you're driving with a pad and no assists, still feels like it's been compromised to be controlled with a pad. So the same may happen again... either controls will feel compromised as there's no wheel to use as an alternate, or... I don't know. You can't make a "sim" feel like a sim with a pad. At all.
No matter just how good FM5 may be when the One launches later this year, I can almost guarantee you you'll get that uncomfortable feeling that either something's missing or just not quite right.
PS. This thread seems appropriate, so I'm just gonna throw this out there: Anyone want to get rid of their Fanatec 360-compatible wheel for cheap? PM me
*Forza as a brand still doesn't seem to have an identity, even after 5 titles. They're to be commended for trying a number of different ideas in their games, but these ideas are never evaluated in regards to how they fit into the entire game. No difficulty selection in FM4, random bowling/soccer stages in career mode, Kinect driving mode(?!?)... all potentially great ideas if they're executed well and make sense within the context of the game, but the Kinect mode wasn't even a part of the full game, bowling/soccer just shouldn't be in a sim of any kind and no difficulty in a game that has AI in single player? Design choices that should've been thought out better before they were included so haphazardly.
*On that note, all the PGR games have managed to hit the right note that they were aiming for. They've rarely been too ambitious or overshot the mark, always have a very specific game type they want to make with a target they consistently hit with laser-like precision. A PGR launch game would have more appeal for the casual market, proven style and would look impressive, even if only as a first-gen game. It would also give Turn 10 much needed development time (and information/assistance) that could only help.
*FM has no mass appeal to people who would buy a console and a bunch of launch titles day one. People need something they can put in and play without being overburdened with technicalities. FM is a sim (as far as console racers go) and there are concepts in it that, if you dumb them down, will change the type of game it is completely. So, FM5 (and potentially the entire franchise) is screwed. Either they dumb it down to appeal to a newer casual audience who just want a shiny new title to show off on their new console, or they cater to the more hardcore crowd, but alienate the vast majority of new console buyers in the process. If they're hoping to bank on the Forza name just to sell games to the masses... they're sorely mistaken. Forza isn't GT (despite having almost the same number of games out... think about that) and just doesn't have the recognition or pedigree associated with it. The GT series may have been somewhat dull presentation-wise, but at least they've been consistent and built upon what they already have, rather than trying to change too much of it. If you play GT1 and GT5, you can still see many similar elements in both, however much they may have evolved. No way in hell you could do that with FM1 and FM4... they don't even have a similar logo.
*No peripherals. You can't announce any kind of simulator and not at least hint at an appropriate control method. PGR games have generally had a more forgiving driving model, regardless of assists and rarely felt out of place with a controller. Forza, as good as it feels when you're driving with a pad and no assists, still feels like it's been compromised to be controlled with a pad. So the same may happen again... either controls will feel compromised as there's no wheel to use as an alternate, or... I don't know. You can't make a "sim" feel like a sim with a pad. At all.
No matter just how good FM5 may be when the One launches later this year, I can almost guarantee you you'll get that uncomfortable feeling that either something's missing or just not quite right.
PS. This thread seems appropriate, so I'm just gonna throw this out there: Anyone want to get rid of their Fanatec 360-compatible wheel for cheap? PM me
state_vector_collapse
Member
What will they be doing while they are still working on this game with regards any steering wheel controllers? Surely they will need a steering wheel attached to properly evaluate how the cars respond.
With the older games there were always wheels available (at least the official Xbox one was at first). Just curious as to how they go about this.
With the older games there were always wheels available (at least the official Xbox one was at first). Just curious as to how they go about this.
Kinect steering.
Greaaatttt.... /sarcasm
The most boring track in the world + bowling + soccer confirmed for FM5!
Spaceman Spiff
Member
If they insist on keeping the Top Gear license in Motorsport, as opposed to Horizon, I hope it's a bit more ambitious, (and not quite as rubbish), as in FM4.
Give us a budget for beaters and upgrades to recreate cheap car challenges, more Rivals events that mirror iconic races from the show, amphibious car conversions in the upgrade shop, and maybe even a romp or two across the spine of Africa...
I'm at least glad the Test Track will be returning. It's great for hotlapping, and call me easily amused, but I still get a kick out of seeing the show's camera angles in replays. If commentary is indeed a feature in FM5, we need Clarkson to wonder if we'll understeer through the Hammerhead, and, of course, bust out the trademark "... and across the line!"
Give us a budget for beaters and upgrades to recreate cheap car challenges, more Rivals events that mirror iconic races from the show, amphibious car conversions in the upgrade shop, and maybe even a romp or two across the spine of Africa...
I'm at least glad the Test Track will be returning. It's great for hotlapping, and call me easily amused, but I still get a kick out of seeing the show's camera angles in replays. If commentary is indeed a feature in FM5, we need Clarkson to wonder if we'll understeer through the Hammerhead, and, of course, bust out the trademark "... and across the line!"
Putting the track properly with the amazing camera replay angles, the two iconic cars (plus TopGear US car), football from the iconic episode, and jeremy clarkson doing that awesome intro, the awesome ad, and autovista = rubbish
holy shit forza "fans" are really disgusting.
You might be able to find a bunch of Fanatec wheel on the cheap soon lol.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
Trailer looked beautiful, however i fear Forza is looking more like PGR than GT.
It's amazing how crushed the dark tones are in their videos. Every. Single. Time. I just adjusted the curves a bit and the footage looks much more attractive.
The contrast in FM3 was messed up, too. Maybe what Turn10 needs is a solid art director with an eye for motorsport television.
I think so, too. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe they can build an identity on that.
The contrast in FM3 was messed up, too. Maybe what Turn10 needs is a solid art director with an eye for motorsport television.
GTP_Daverytimes said:
I think so, too. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe they can build an identity on that.
Spaceman Spiff
Member
Easy there, buddy.
Far from implying that FM4's Top Gear content was shit, I couldn't pass up an opportunity to reference one of the show's perpetual catchphrases, ("Top Gear: ambitious but rubbish").
That being said, as nice as Clarkson's narration throughout the game and its marketing were, I don't think I'm alone in feeling that the actual gameplay-related content felt a bit underdeveloped. Car bowling and soccer were good fun for a while, but quickly grew tiresome, and given the show's wealth of source material for challenges and other scenarios, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect Turn 10 to set their sights a little higher the second time around.
Paladin CL
Member
Honestly i find a very funny when some of you guys say that Forza doesnt find an identity based on a trailer or small logo changes.
Forza have a firm identity, i have readed interviews since first Forza and its always been about the a simulator with good physics but with the desire to include all cars fans, no matter the skill level, thats why all the assist.
Another pillar of the game is the car collecting and customization, thats why they are always trying to improve the carlist and features, to make our car really ours.
Same goes for online features, since first title has been a social experience, to join other, do races or other activities, to share, to show. Forza is a game about social interaction around cars and everything they do is to try to expand that element.
Forza has never been all about being a sim (even when you some of you see it that way), it has never been only about racing, in words of Dan Forza is a place for all those who have a passion for cars.
Thats a strong identity and you guys are complaining about the vibe of a 1 minute video and a slightly changed logo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
About the wheels: Wow, Microsoft keep screwing up wheel users if this turn to be true, that has been one of the weak points of their console even when theres a heavy focus on racing games, both xbox has been a great place for racing games, so i really dont understand why they dont provide a good hardware solution for this, especially when the wheels are so expensive.
I undertand that in eyes of a bigger benefits for the other devices (if theres any) sacrificing about 50.000 - 100.000 wheel users wont sound too terrible but these guys are a very important part of the racing game fans and probably the biggest spenders in Forza/Horizon and Gotham franchise.
I hope everything work good for you guys and if the wheels doesnt work right out of the box Fanatec can find some solution.
Forza have a firm identity, i have readed interviews since first Forza and its always been about the a simulator with good physics but with the desire to include all cars fans, no matter the skill level, thats why all the assist.
Another pillar of the game is the car collecting and customization, thats why they are always trying to improve the carlist and features, to make our car really ours.
Same goes for online features, since first title has been a social experience, to join other, do races or other activities, to share, to show. Forza is a game about social interaction around cars and everything they do is to try to expand that element.
Forza has never been all about being a sim (even when you some of you see it that way), it has never been only about racing, in words of Dan Forza is a place for all those who have a passion for cars.
Thats a strong identity and you guys are complaining about the vibe of a 1 minute video and a slightly changed logo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
About the wheels: Wow, Microsoft keep screwing up wheel users if this turn to be true, that has been one of the weak points of their console even when theres a heavy focus on racing games, both xbox has been a great place for racing games, so i really dont understand why they dont provide a good hardware solution for this, especially when the wheels are so expensive.
I undertand that in eyes of a bigger benefits for the other devices (if theres any) sacrificing about 50.000 - 100.000 wheel users wont sound too terrible but these guys are a very important part of the racing game fans and probably the biggest spenders in Forza/Horizon and Gotham franchise.
I hope everything work good for you guys and if the wheels doesnt work right out of the box Fanatec can find some solution.
It will. Also it will make you coffee and give you back massages after a long play session.
FastRedPonyCar
Banned
no support for all my fanatec stuff = no sale for me unfortunately. It doesn't surprise me that it will most likely not work but it still does disappoint me.
not until project cars hits the consoles (which I assume it will once it's finished). Its as near photo realistic as I think we're going to see this next gen though I hope I'm proven wrong. It already gives my 680gtx a beating so I can't imagine the consoles being able to render anything much better looking.
not until project cars hits the consoles (which I assume it will once it's finished). Its as near photo realistic as I think we're going to see this next gen though I hope I'm proven wrong. It already gives my 680gtx a beating so I can't imagine the consoles being able to render anything much better looking.
My top wish for next-gen driving games is better wheel smoke. I was just playing Driver San Francisco and the smoke in that is amazing. Boils around the tires and looks great...maybe not dark or varied enough, but not bad otherwise.
You can kind of see it in this video - I'm too lazy to cap and upload one right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QAFk1gizFM
You can kind of see it in this video - I'm too lazy to cap and upload one right now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QAFk1gizFM
Liquidsnake
Banned
I'm going to write this down in point form, but here's why I think the pooch has been screwed regarding Forza on the new system:
*Forza as a brand still doesn't seem to have an identity, even after 5 titles. They're to be commended for trying a number of different ideas in their games, but these ideas are never evaluated in regards to how they fit into the entire game. No difficulty selection in FM4, random bowling/soccer stages in career mode, Kinect driving mode(?!?)... all potentially great ideas if they're executed well and make sense within the context of the game, but the Kinect mode wasn't even a part of the full game, bowling/soccer just shouldn't be in a sim of any kind and no difficulty in a game that has AI in single player? Design choices that should've been thought out better before they were included so haphazardly.
*On that note, all the PGR games have managed to hit the right note that they were aiming for. They've rarely been too ambitious or overshot the mark, always have a very specific game type they want to make with a target they consistently hit with laser-like precision. A PGR launch game would have more appeal for the casual market, proven style and would look impressive, even if only as a first-gen game. It would also give Turn 10 much needed development time (and information/assistance) that could only help.
*FM has no mass appeal to people who would buy a console and a bunch of launch titles day one. People need something they can put in and play without being overburdened with technicalities. FM is a sim (as far as console racers go) and there are concepts in it that, if you dumb them down, will change the type of game it is completely. So, FM5 (and potentially the entire franchise) is screwed. Either they dumb it down to appeal to a newer casual audience who just want a shiny new title to show off on their new console, or they cater to the more hardcore crowd, but alienate the vast majority of new console buyers in the process. If they're hoping to bank on the Forza name just to sell games to the masses... they're sorely mistaken. Forza isn't GT (despite having almost the same number of games out... think about that) and just doesn't have the recognition or pedigree associated with it. The GT series may have been somewhat dull presentation-wise, but at least they've been consistent and built upon what they already have, rather than trying to change too much of it. If you play GT1 and GT5, you can still see many similar elements in both, however much they may have evolved. No way in hell you could do that with FM1 and FM4... they don't even have a similar logo.
*No peripherals. You can't announce any kind of simulator and not at least hint at an appropriate control method. PGR games have generally had a more forgiving driving model, regardless of assists and rarely felt out of place with a controller. Forza, as good as it feels when you're driving with a pad and no assists, still feels like it's been compromised to be controlled with a pad. So the same may happen again... either controls will feel compromised as there's no wheel to use as an alternate, or... I don't know. You can't make a "sim" feel like a sim with a pad. At all.
No matter just how good FM5 may be when the One launches later this year, I can almost guarantee you you'll get that uncomfortable feeling that either something's missing or just not quite right.
PS. This thread seems appropriate, so I'm just gonna throw this out there: Anyone want to get rid of their Fanatec 360-compatible wheel for cheap? PM me
I disagree with everything you said. In fact myself along with some other Forza friends pre ordered the system today. I think F4 outclassed GT5 this last generation.
I think you've misinterpreted what I define (at least, in my usage) as "identity". I think of it as when all components of a game have a particular goal that they all move towards, even if they're at odds or completely different from each other.
I consider most parts of Forza to carry this "Tweak your car, customise it, make it yours, race it really fast on tracks around the world" vibe, which tends to have the feeling of something sleek, serious and almost proper... actually treating a car as if it was yours.
But then, you have other extraneous things that don't fit in with that goal, like bowling and car soccer... things that just appear to have been added to capture the casual audience without consideration to how much it's removed from those ideas.
And it looks like it's happening again with the commentary over the trailer. The only things I could really take away from it without focusing on superficial aspects (like graphics) was the commentary and the fact that it's in a metropolitan city. I personally think it detracts from the assumed role as a semi-professional driver as you just won't find metropolitan cities that close off their streets at will for the sake of a race.
PGR can get away with it because it's primary focus is taking cars out and fanging them around places you normally wouldn't. But Forza has been about taking cars to places you *should*... notable exceptions being NYC (which I don't think fit in with the game at all) and Amalfi (which strikes me as the sort of tiny township that would go for something like that). Racing around closed-off streets I just don't think would feel right for the franchise. It's much more an NFS and PGR (and Midtown Madness 3, ugh) thing.
The commentary, thinking about it now, I could probably be more open to given that it may only be used during replays and not actually in game (that was the main issue I had with it when I first saw it). I still don't think it really fits because Forza, until 4 and Horizon, has never been a game that has it's own personality... and adding that (just like adding Jeremy Clarkson) turns it from being an interactive car catalog into something that has an active opinion of sorts.
I realise I'm talking with a fairly vague sentiment, but "vibe" is not something I find easy to define. I pick up on it easily enough, as I'm a great fan of the "vibe" of a lot of UK studios' games (Bizarre, Psygnosis/Sony Liverpool, old Codies and a LOT of Amiga titles from that region) and get this sense when something doesn't fit in with what I feel they're trying to capture.
Vagaries aside, I think FM needs to do something to tie everything together. I might not have liked the whole feel of Horizon as it was all a little too cheesy and cliche for my liking, but nothing ever felt like it was at odds with what the game was going for. Turn 10 could learn something from them, I think.
Never said FM4 didn't outclass GT5, in fact I much, MUCH prefer it to Polyphony's effort. But as easy as it is to hate on Polyphony for a number of their design choices, you can't argue with the fact that they don't appear to have ever compromised in order to include a particular feature or win over a few more people. With the exception of including "real" people like that NASCAR driver and whoever else they had... I think those were all a massive mistake.
But man, I hope you're not taking away from anything I've said as a dislike for the game itself. I absolutely love what FM does (and FM4 is by far my favourite console sim racer, GT6 will have to do a LOT to change that), but with the exception of FM1 and 2 (which I have trouble remembering... it's been a long time) I can see there have been decisions made in each game that I feel detract or at least go against the game they intended to make.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
what's a bone?
Same. I already spent too much for my CSR and I won't buy a new wheel.
Go karts?
There's really no reason a sim game can't also have aspects that appeal to more casual driving fans. There's a reason shows like Top Gear are so popular. Not only do they have gearhead moments, they have stuff for other people as well.
I don't play Forza - or GT for that matter - on full sim mode. Some things I have on, others I don't. Friends of mine play with the games optioned into almost arcade-style racers. Offering that kind of variety isn't a negative.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
I didn't know it wasn't CG until I paid close attention to the 1080p trailer. That speaks very well of the quality of the graphics of the X1. I am a bit relieved.
If my Fanatec stuff doesn't work with XBone but does work with PS4, then choosing which console I buy just got a whole lot easier, Forza or no Forza.
Even six month out I feel a little sorry for Turn 10 because, based on what I saw a couple a days ago, I really believe that the XBone will bomb, especially with the games-buying public. A proportion of their Forza fan base - wheel users - will also not buy the XBone if they cannot use their expensive driving hardware on it. I've also had the impression over the past couple of titles that Microsoft are increasingly sticking their oar in regarding content, and have a feeling that the subtle 'casualisation' of Forza is about to get a whole lot more integral to the core of the game. The news above about the increased Top Gear involvement seems to confirm this, and the recent trailer - the single piece of information we currently have - does nothing to make me think otherwise.
I'm really interested to see what Turn 10 present at E3. With the game less than six months away I'll be expecting near-full disclosure of features and content expected in FM5, and hopefully questions regarding the whole Fanatec issue won't be glossed over but will be answered directly. It would be ludicrous if FM5 launches without an available wheel to support it.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Insane IQ aside, these shots look believable. I think they're simply supersampled shots. I think the lighting is the best part, although it doesn't look realistic. Good general detail too. I like the crowds - makes the already sterile racing genre look less sterile.
It would be interesting to see how these feel with a racing game.
Top Gear news is also great. As long as there isn't any more bowling that is.
Something more automotive orientated wold be much more interesting.
So, anyone want to hazard a guess how long Dan's beard will be at E3?
Stubble or Gandalf?
The way I see it, the greatness of the game depends on this. The longer it is, the better the game. It's a proven scientific fact.
Yeah, I've scrutinized the 1080p trailer and I think so as well, definitely doable aside from IQ.
I'm pleased that the shaders seem to have been a great focus for Turn 10 in terms of graphics.
One thing I've even wondering though, the game is likely to have motion blur in-game now and probably some sort of "light" AA like FXAA. Couldn't they try to approach that level of IQ in replays by adding another form of AA (similar to FXAA + 4xMSAA of Horizon) if they still aim for 30fps replays ?
soundscream
Member
His head is shaved now, so all his power can be focused on the beard.
Im expecting this by E3
AHAHAHA. Amazing.More like :
all this talk about fm lightning is funny. i am also not a fan of exaggerated colours. seeing the colours of the cars or the sun reflection on cars always lets me think "oh come on guys, thats to much"
but to be honest, i often find myself thinking in reality while driving "oh fuck, this really looks like fm. cant be true"...
but it just happens on some rare events, where the sun is in the right spot and one of those crazy coloured cars in in front of you.
fm settings are 95% at glaring midday sunlight. and every car is super clean. thats something that bothers me more.
and yeah, i'd like to see them use more saturated colours...
but to be honest, i often find myself thinking in reality while driving "oh fuck, this really looks like fm. cant be true"...
but it just happens on some rare events, where the sun is in the right spot and one of those crazy coloured cars in in front of you.
fm settings are 95% at glaring midday sunlight. and every car is super clean. thats something that bothers me more.
and yeah, i'd like to see them use more saturated colours...
nooooooooooMore like :
maybe we should write a letter, co-sign it and have it posted in a big u.s. tv-guide magazine or something. I think thats where their attention is lately, so we might grab them there.
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
What's funny is all the "looks like plastic" comments...
Because it's not like cars ARE made of plastics, carbon composites, steel and or aluminum. The paint itself is more of a plastic product than anything.
Such a nonsensical and bullshit argument really. FM5 looks better than GT5 and GT6 combined. It's that simple.
p.s still not gonna buy thanks to XB1 "features". Will see in the future if T10 "ideals" will make it even worse.
