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[sun-drop]

and yeh .. anyone planning on taking their xbone with them to that ski trip away with yr buddies ... better pray they get mobile coverage in that hutt yr staying at.

can't believe MS are willing to say goodbye to every gamer out there who has some situation where being online might be trickey ...


doesn't effect me at all .... but yeh .... it's kinda arrogant beyond words to think you can toss away that chunk of gamers out there and still beat sony this gen ... unless sony are doing the same thing (maybe .. i mean EA prob didn't kill online passes for nothing ... )

 

[Metalmurphy]

Here's what I don't get about how this used game block was handled.

Publishers and developers complained how there was this huge side market of billions of dollars in used games and how they should have a piece of that pie. Yet, instead of going at the big corporations that actually made a business out of the used market they do nothing but actually limit people to trade only at those pre determined retailers ultimately creating a monopoly for this shit.

And then they just flat out block individual sale of game which when compared to something like gamespot is nothing.


I don't get this shit, I really fucking don't, and it really pisses me off.

 

[something fishy]

Having been alive before online passes, this is still shit.

Indeed. I was alive long before consoles existed so I know what you mean.

drm of all kinds has slowly crept in and it's acceptance on pc and the willingness of people to buy online pass games (I stopped buying ea years ago as a result) means they now see it as ok to push it totally.

it's not right but if they're going to do it then the sharing makes it a little more tolerable.

 

[Xater]

All of this sounds like a nightmare. Fuck off Microsoft.

 

[dmg04]

Nice job junior. That's some top quality posting you got there. You sure did show all of them teenagers with all their whining!

Good show.

And I applaud you on your post, sir. 100% necessary, 100% quality. Absolutely needed, as is my retort!

As for an actual reply to the OP:
Why are people freaking the fuck out, blasting microsoft over the fact they listed "You can share games with 10 members of your family"? Literally a week ago, people were screaming 'ZOMG, WE HAVE TO PAY TWICE FOR THE SAME GAME IF MY LITTLE BROTHER WANTS TO HOP ON?'

They clarified it, and people got mad about it? My goodness.

 

[daffy]

They are not going to listen if they are going to be making %10 of used game sales.....

The site says Microsoft aren't making anything off of the actual sale.

 

[Gori]

I don't even dislike this so much, but I also plan to be 100% digital for the next gen. I can even see some minor advantages here compared to how it works today, like buying disc based games and installing them and not having to keep the discs up and at the same time being able to play the same games at friends houses. But yeah.. discs are boring and special edition packages of games are all ugly.

But.

WTF Microsoft, you KNEW about the Orth situation, so why didn't you prepare this document for the reveal? Or at least have your PR folks tell the rest of the people to not talk about this at all until this document was up?

Someone REALLY fucked up. Like, should be fired fucked up in the way this was handled.

 

[BlastProcessing]

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a server check.

 

[Xun]

This changes nothing.

Still the same shit.

 

[Nosgoroth]

Why are people freaking the fuck out, blasting microsoft over the fact they listed "You can share games with 10 members of your family"? Literally a week ago, people were screaming 'ZOMG, WE HAVE TO PAY TWICE FOR THE SAME GAME IF MY LITTLE BROTHER WANTS TO HOP ON?'

They clarified it, and people got mad about it? My goodness.

Indeed. That's, like, the only clear positive from all this.

 

[Metalmurphy]

The site says Microsoft aren't making anything off of the actual sale.

Oh you poor naive fool.

Who do you think gets a royaltie when these "select" retailers resell your game for twice the value?

 

[Renesis]

And Im out. Your move Sony.

 

[Aostia]

Basically, they confirmed all my phears.
I can't trade in freely (ebay, amazon, privately, in small stores we have at least here in Italy that usually are more conveniente than GS); I have to be connected online (and here in Italy, probably other GAFfers can confirm) it's not so sure to have always a stable connection; and I don't have it at all at my seaside house; those two factors are really disapointing. If I consider them in addition to the size of the console + kinect + external power pack (was it confirmed?), to the mandatory kinect (that I'll pay also if I'm not interested at all in it) and the not-so-fake GPU issues...well, I really hope Sony will place correctly the PS4 price-wise without letting MS bring too many third party exlcusives

 

[TAJ]

And I applaud you on your post, sir. 100% necessary, 100% quality. Absolutely needed, as is my retort!

As for an actual reply to the OP:
Why are people freaking the fuck out, blasting microsoft over the fact they listed "You can share games with 10 members of your family"? Literally a week ago, people were screaming 'ZOMG, WE HAVE TO PAY TWICE FOR THE SAME GAME IF MY LITTLE BROTHER WANTS TO HOP ON?'

They clarified it, and people got mad about it? My goodness.

Because people interpreted "We are listening." as a prelude to MS backtracking.
Also, being able to share games should be expected. The only new part is that you don't have to meet in person now. (But it's very limited.) Sharing within the same household is actually more complicated on XBone.

 

[Jamie OD]

I twitterd to Neelie Kroes a few minutes ago. I don't think that this kind of DRM is allowed according to European law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commissioner_for_Digital_Agenda

This is what I'm wondering about given how different the second hand market in Europe might be depending on the country.

 

[toff74]

I might be a little stupid thinking this way, but:

Surely MS has done extensive research into the game buying habits of the majority of their 'shareholders' i.e. us and done a little DRM housekeeping... not to make it an obstacle for the majority to play their games (duh!), but in line with the majority of their findings.

I would guess this has been developed over the past few years by sending out numerous surveys/talking to retailers and publishers which will give then a good idea of peoples behaviors buying/selling/lending games.

You'd also have to be stupid to think that Microsoft wold not get any favorable game decisions by using a DRM model.. More exclusives, timed DLC.. If it is all about the games, whats the problem with this?

I would also guess that for the majority of Xbone's buyers all of this we're ranting about on here will have little to no impact.

It's not a given right to game... and nice things cost money. If you don't like it or cant afford it dont do it or find a cheaper option.. played every game from this gen??

 

[Bendz]

Nice job junior. That's some top quality posting you got there. You sure did show all of them teenagers with all their whining!

Good show.

Thanks, I thought it came out rather well myself.

 

[Bojanglez]

Oh you poor naive fool.

Who do you think gets a royaltie when this " select" retailers resell your game for twice the value?

Exactly, or they will be charging a general licensing fee to retailers for the use of their authentication network. One way or another they will be getting paid by this process.

 

[BobTheFork]

I twitterd to Neelie Kroes a few minutes ago. I don't think that this kind of DRM is allowed according to European law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Commissioner_for_Digital_Agenda

You know, I had heard this before but I don't know what would become of it.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Has this been posted yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWcKtJj5_oY

 

[FINALBOSS]

And I applaud you on your post, sir. 100% necessary, 100% quality. Absolutely needed, as is my retort!

As for an actual reply to the OP:
Why are people freaking the fuck out, blasting microsoft over the fact they listed "You can share games with 10 members of your family"? Literally a week ago, people were screaming 'ZOMG, WE HAVE TO PAY TWICE FOR THE SAME GAME IF MY LITTLE BROTHER WANTS TO HOP ON?'

They clarified it, and people got mad about it? My goodness.

Ya bro..that's all we're mad about.

Top notch posting.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Comically bad. I ain't buying this shitpile.

 

[Vex]

So half the rumors that GAF trusted users confirmed proven false yet everyone is still on the hate train. Wow, alright ability to trade games with friends, no fees, able to have your entire library from any console, share with up to ten family members, ect.. Sounds like some great things, the industry has to evolve and it will with or without your consent. People fear change, yet in the end when it is the standard will learn to accept it.

 

[Metalmurphy]

So half the rumors that GAF trusted users confirmed proven false yet everyone is still on the hate train. Wow, alright ability to trade games with friends, no fees, able to have your entire library from any console, share with up to ten family members, ect.. Sounds like some great things, the industry has to evolve and it will with or without your consent. People fear change, yet in the end when it is the standard will learn to accept it.

What the fuck? It was all true. All of it. And nothing about this is good.

 

[IrishNinja]

Here's what I don't get about how this used game block was handled.

Publishers and developers complained how there was this huge side market of billions of dollars in used games and how they should have a piece of that pie. Yet, instead of going at the big corporations that actually made a business out of the used market they do nothing but actually limit people to trade only at those pre determined retailers ultimately creating a monopoly for this shit.

And then they just flat out block individual sale of game which when compared to something like gamespot is nothing.


I don't get this shit, I really fucking don't, and it really pisses me off.

hard to argue with this, really...to those who drank the kool-aid and vilified gamestop, how's it looking now that everyone but them looks to be shafted?

So half the rumors that GAF trusted users confirmed proven false yet everyone is still on the hate train. Wow, alright ability to trade games with friends, no fees, able to have your entire library from any console, share with up to ten family members, ect.. Sounds like some great things, the industry has to evolve and it will with or without your consent. People fear change, yet in the end when it is the standard will learn to accept it.

i'm not saying it's astroturfing
...but it's astroturfing

 

[XeNoN89]

This is awful, anybody defending this abysmal console at this point is simply either A. A blind Xbox fanboy B. Works for Microsoft or C. Is getting paid by Microsoft to say they like it.

Any real gamer should be completely against this mess.

 

[dmg04]

Ya bro..that's all we're mad about.

Top notch posting.

Everyone is mad about everything, but this is something that shouldn't anger people.

Glad destiny is multiplatform...

 

[Jburton]

Oh well.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

So half the rumors that GAF trusted users confirmed proven false yet everyone is still on the hate train. Wow, alright ability to trade games with friends, no fees, able to have your entire library from any console, share with up to ten family members, ect.. Sounds like some great things, the industry has to evolve and it will with or without your consent. People fear change, yet in the end when it is the standard will learn to accept it.

so, you've been a gaf member for a whole 8 days huh?

 

[TAJ]

So half the rumors that GAF trusted users confirmed proven false yet everyone is still on the hate train. Wow, alright ability to trade games with friends, no fees, able to have your entire library from any console, share with up to ten family members, ect.. Sounds like some great things, the industry has to evolve and it will with or without your consent. People fear change, yet in the end when it is the standard will learn to accept it.

Instead of your friend paying an extra $60, you do.
Wow. Huge difference, lol.

 

[DTKT]

So half the rumors that GAF trusted users confirmed proven false yet everyone is still on the hate train. Wow, alright ability to trade games with friends, no fees, able to have your entire library from any console, share with up to ten family members, ect.. Sounds like some great things, the industry has to evolve and it will with or without your consent. People fear change, yet in the end when it is the standard will learn to accept it.

That's some selective quoting. You seem to be forgetting about used games being at the mercy of those who have fought to make it as difficult as possible to re-sell games. That's going to end well.

Also, GAF needs a god damn killboard with the names of all the viral marketers that are banned. Because random juniors loving everything about Microsoft in every single thread is just baffling.

 

[ReijMan]

I'm happy they gave us something in return. The ability to have a 'shared set of games' to share with other consoles in the household.

"Xbox One will enable new forms of access for families. Up to ten members of your family can log in and play from your shared games library on any Xbox One."
http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/license

This maybe also means you can install say 400gb on games on XBOX one in the living room, 400gb on games on XBOX one in the bedroom. And have access to 800gb of XBOX (one ?) games! And for this, you'll only have to buy another console ;-)

But tbh, pretty nice feature, as long as you don't have to wait for a ~40gb (wireless)network transfer...

 

[dmg04]

This is awful, anybody defending this abysmal console at this point is simply either A. A blind Xbox fanboy B. Works for Microsoft or C. Is getting paid by Microsoft to say they like it.

Any real gamer should be completely against this mess.

Single male
22
Steady Job
Doesn't trade in games
Doesn't share games
Purchases 1 game per 3 or 4 months
Always connected to the internet
DGAF.

Totally not a true gamer, here. This is why I'm on a gaming forum bickering with people about consoles that aren't out yet, salivating over future games, and not wearing pants.

 

[NorthernAvengeR]

Good to have it confirmed I guess. Won't be getting one at least until it's late-gen-PS2 cheap. Maybe I'm naive, but I'm not supporting this anti-consumer bullshit with my money, but then again it's european money so MS won't care.


The restrictions are completely livable for me since I don't buy used and I keep games after I finish them, but the only reasoning for the restrictions from what I can tell is pure greed from big poorly managed corporations. If it somehow improved my experience I might be willing to make the tradeoff, but so far there seems to be no upside. Fuck off.

 

[Syntax]

So half the rumors that GAF trusted users confirmed proven false yet everyone is still on the hate train. Wow, alright ability to trade games with friends, no fees, able to have your entire library from any console, share with up to ten family members, ect.. Sounds like some great things, the industry has to evolve and it will with or without your consent. People fear change, yet in the end when it is the standard will learn to accept it.

It doesn't say anything about sharing my games with friends. (Unless you meant we could both play it split-screen or take turns while sitting in the same room.)

It says I can play my games by logging in to my account from any Xbox. It doesn't say I can let my friend borrow and play a game at his house, on his account while I stay at my house and am logging into my account.

 

[Pennywise]

Bad-Juniors still seem to be popping up in this thread.

 

[Blue_Moon]

The site says Microsoft aren't making anything off of the actual sale.

Yea.. That's bs... When stuff like this is implemented, it's for the money.

 

[bomma_man]

So half the rumors that GAF trusted users confirmed proven false yet everyone is still on the hate train. Wow, alright ability to trade games with friends, no fees, able to have your entire library from any console, share with up to ten family members, ect.. Sounds like some great things, the industry has to evolve and it will with or without your consent. People fear change, yet in the end when it is the standard will learn to accept it.

Wow guess what, I can do all those things anyway with every console from the last thirty years, with no restrictions.

 

[ILHASS]

No xbone for me, go home xbone

 

[Ce-Lin]

I need someone to explain me in one sentence the need of Internet checks for offline gaming, I thought built-in anti-piracy hardware would be enough, why is this needed ? my country is definitely not ready, not that we care about the Xbox brand that much anyway.

 

[Acidote]

Bad-Juniors still seem to be popping up in this thread.

And if you check a few pages and the post history of some of them, you start to see a trend. But I'm no detective gaf, I'm sure I'm just paranoid.

 

[Seik]

Bad-Juniors still seem to be popping up in this thread.

:lol

Bish, plz, press the big shiny red button!

 

[RiddleofSteel]

I might be a little stupid thinking this way, but:

Surely MS has done extensive research into the game buying habits of the majority of their 'shareholders' i.e. us and done a little DRM housekeeping... not to make it an obstacle for the majority to play their games (duh!), but in line with the majority of their findings.

I would guess this has been developed over the past few years by sending out numerous surveys/talking to retailers and publishers which will give then a good idea of peoples behaviors buying/selling/lending games.

You'd also have to be stupid to think that Microsoft wold not get any favorable game decisions by using a DRM model.. More exclusives, timed DLC.. If it is all about the games, whats the problem with this?

I would also guess that for the majority of Xbone's buyers all of this we're ranting about on here will have little to no impact.

It's not a given right to game... and nice things cost money. If you don't like it or cant afford it dont do it or find a cheaper option.. played every game from this gen??

It has nothing to do with this at all. Large corporations do this things like this all the time, when they are trying to set the tone for the market. It's a risky business move they must take from time to time in order to increase their market share, and focus groups and surveys may tell you one thing, but in reality it's the complete opposite. Think New Coke. The most studied product of it's time, and all of the focus groups and surveys came out a raving success. When the product launched, it was a total failure.


People are going to find a way of least resistance to play these games they love, one way or another. When you start making the legal way too difficult to do that, this is when you see a rampant rise in piracy and hacks. This was common throughout the early years of the gaming industry, and is one of the reasons it almost went completely belly up. The market adjusted itself, and has been booming every since. They are essentially making the same mistake as before, and the results will be the same: rampant piracy, modded chips, hacks, etc...

 

[Vex]

That's some selective quoting. You seem to be forgetting about used games being at the mercy of those who have fought to make it as difficult as possible to re-sell games. That's going to end well.

Also, GAF needs a god damn killboard with the names of all the viral marketers that are banned. Because random juniors loving everything about Microsoft in every single thread is just baffling.

Right, because people shouldn't have an opinion they should just be forced to go with whatever the popular crowd believes. There is alot of good that goes with the bad, someone just needs to point it out so everyone isn't being spammed with anti-MS crap all the time.

 

[Caayn]

This is what I'm wondering about given how different the second hand market in Europe might be depending on the country.

Can be, but every EU member has a set of laws that are shared. The so called Europeans laws. Which state the following "The first sale in the Community of a copy of a program by the rightholder or with his consent shall exhaust the distribution right within the Community of that copy" - Article 4 of the 'Restricted acts’

 

[ComputerMKII]

Even with Shenmue 3, Half-Life 3 and Versus XIII I won't bother with the Xbox One.

PS4 it is, then.

 

[Syntax]

The site says Microsoft aren't making anything off of the actual sale.

Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.

So do they charge other kinds of fees?

 

[Kevf]

You know, I had heard this before but I don't know what would become of it.

Are you referring to the whole #nodrm at Neogaf? My tweet is different in my opinion. I'm not asking a company for sympathy or listening to me as a (potential) customer.

 

[drbond]

If Sony does turn out to have a similar kind of system, I'm going to be honest right now and say I'd still be interested in PS4. If you notice on their weekly store updates, they have sales and price drops constantly and they are constantly viewable. Oftentimes they price match sales that 360 has, like in April during the Spring sale they matched Hell Yeah!'s $5.99. Borderlands 2 was $25 after Microsoft did $30 a few weeks prior. They come up with their own sales and its more varied than when 360 does like a Publisher Sale for one publisher. Tomb Raider was $30 for one weekend and I think they later kept it on for the whole week. I bought like 5 full games in April off of PSN. Terraria was the only one that wasn't savings get.

Think about CrossBuy, obvi Microsoft doesnt have a handheld but i mean Skulls of the Shogun was on Windows Phone... They could've done something. It just to me feels like Sony is more attentive with savings in general and in they way they advertise them each week. You can't say PlaystationPlus isn't deal after deal, and they pass those deals to normal PSN users as best they can. No Gold Member only debauchery like with Dark Souls on XBL. Even the $5 off they give for Playstation exclusive digital downloads is a nice gesture. They really didn't have to do that. They even had a slight preorder discount for Grid II although it was miniature, it showed they at least grasped the concept. The features for Plus shows they know how to run a digital store, obvi it needs a few more features here and there.

So, if push comes to shove and I can't rent on PS4 either, I'd still be interested in what their new store would be like and how they choose to repurpose PlaystationPlus. In my eyes Sony is in a different league then Microsoft with sales value. At least with them I know I'll still be getting savings on something, at a somewhat frequent pace.

Or at least, that's how I'll justify bending over this Holiday.

Same here. Used Games. Constant DRM checks. Very important topics. But for me...initial ideas about which next gen system to buy, will be based on current/future subscription models when looking at Xbox Live Gold vs Playstation Plus (and if they plan to improve or get worse via certain restrictions/fees/charging money for stuff that should be free/staying horrible as-is/etc).

In this case, Xbox's needed revamp of Live Gold offers (God knows it deserves improvement after the price hike to $59.99 a year) vs the incredible value you can get today (right now) on Playstation Plus. For me...I'm sure to many others...these are major selling points (outside of the nonsense that was confirmed today by MS; probably some more nonsense coming out of Sony camp in the near future).

As for Xbox Live Gold itself, upon release:
-It was acceptable to pay for Xbox Live Gold because it had a cleaner interface to play online games (the excellent Blades UI). You already knew it worked, because you already had paid for it on the original Xbox in order to play your online matches in Halo 2, CVS2, PGR2, and Midtown Madness 3 (among others). Online multiplayer was part of the subscription, even back with the original Xbox's Live service, so you just had to "deal with it" I guess.
-Xbox Live Gold had easier to access options via circle of light interface, and you could easily get into your game and send/accept invites, over the sloppier & harder to maneuver menus (still very early iteration) of Sony's XMB.
-You could compare your in-game achievments with friends, while you couldn't initially on PS3 (Sony still hadn't implemented their trophy system).
-Xbox Live Gold members got access to the awesome Party Chat feature, making it much easier to talk to your buddies across titles.

Over the course of time though, Sony has not only improved the XMB, but the PSN shopping experience itself.
-The XMB is definately better looking & more accessible than when it started out as. Its gotten much easier to send invites, and accept them. Later Sony would add the trophy system, to combat the achievment system on Xbox Live.
-Free online multiplayer to everyone on day one. Hoping Sony keeps it this way for PS4, because it might be a factor for some to not bother, and just play online games free of charge on their PC's (though the PS Plus benefits are quite tasty, if factoring).
-The PSN digital store is better organized overall since its inception. Its much easier to track your wallet & your download history. Also the PS storefront looks somewhat better than X360's, but that's up to preference.
-PSN store is constantly growing (Neo Geo store, etc).
-And the great equalizer...the eventual introduction of incredible benefits with being a Playstation Plus member (stuff that Xbox Live Gold needs now). Killer sale prices; games on the weekly sale (+ more additional discount for PSPlus member) end up being cheaper than Xbox Live Gold weekly sale equivalent titles. Different games awarded, for FREE, to subscribers (not just throwaway PSN titles anymore, but rather full retail AAA games [currently its the excellent Sleeping Dogs]). Also the limited timed trial for specific games that month, better gives you an idea if a game will be good over a bad game demo you might find on Xbox Marketplace or in the general PSN download section.

I was a hardcore fan of Xbox since the days of the "duke controller" but they really have to convince me, to win me over on Xbone via Xbox Live; especially after this current nonsense confirmation with the user restrictions. It would be interesting to see exactly how many Gold members out there (with multiple systems) quit paying their subscriptions in the last few years, just to switch over to Playstation Plus.

Xbox Live online multiplayer free to all owners (even non-paying subscription Xbox owners IE silver owners), taking that ridiculous paywall restriction off the Youtube & Internet Explorer apps (seriously guys?), offering better and more frequent sales on actual decent stuff, and more active price updating on titles especially Games on Demand (why is NBA 2K13 Games on Demand 360, still $60? LOL).

 

[family_guy]

They arent done yet. All those extra "dedicated" servers must be paid for somehow. Increase in Xbox Live fee and just maybe streaming ads while you play your game.