But that's simply personal incredulity. If you have to ask the question "why would they bring an old build" then you don't have enough information to come to the conclusions you're coming to.
DigitalFoundry: Hands-on with PS4 1080p 30fps...!!
- Thread starter ahm998
- Start date
But that's simply personal incredulity. If you have to ask the question "why would they bring an old build" then you don't have enough information to come to the conclusions you're coming to.
How many times does this need to be said each page?
LukasTaves
Member
What are you talking about? Ryse was native 1080p, and at least visually, it looked bananas.
They develop in different styles. For all you know Turn10 just spent a whole month polishing up a build for E3 so it looked good, whereas Evolution just took a build they had and didn't change anything because they didn't want to take away resources from the full game's development (not saying Turn10 actually does that, but for Evolution studio and looking at their track record, it could definitely be the case)
Also, it's quite known that Evolution pretty much works on the whole game at once (as in, gets everything in place like all modes and what not and adds layers to that as time goes on). Whereas other companies may work on a mode by mode basis (while working on other aspects like graphical polish), track by track basis (while working on other aspects like graphical polish).
There was a significant increase in visual quality between E3 2008's Motorstorm Pacific Rim demo and the final build which came out in October 2008 (similar timeframe between this E3 and PS4 launch). Apparently it was the same thing for Motorstorm Apocalypse.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Has anyone managed to ask what was in the PS4 devkit boxes that games were running on? Was it a finished production hardware or some still incomplete pc-based devkit.
I'm assuming on Xbox side they had finished production hardware in the boxes for games where cables were going from the actual boxes?
I'm assuming on Xbox side they had finished production hardware in the boxes for games where cables were going from the actual boxes?
Impeccable
Member
I cancelled my four pre-ordered PS4s and ordered 10 XbOne consoles instead.
GameSeeker
Member
The really good news: PS4 games are running on actual PS4 hardware. This is good news for developers and prospective PS4 owners. This means Sony is on track with the H/W for Holiday launch.
On the games front: Internal Sony dev studios are used to writing code for a DX9 level nVidia part (PS3), for the last several years. They are now transitioning to a DX11 level AMD part (PS4). There will be a learning curve as they adjust, so don't be too harsh on early code.
Interestingly, 3rd parties (e.g., DICE with BF4) who are already used to writing PC code on DX11 AMD parts will have an easier time moving to the PS4. So we may see very good things from Battlefield 4, Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag, etc. on the PS4.
On the games front: Internal Sony dev studios are used to writing code for a DX9 level nVidia part (PS3), for the last several years. They are now transitioning to a DX11 level AMD part (PS4). There will be a learning curve as they adjust, so don't be too harsh on early code.
Interestingly, 3rd parties (e.g., DICE with BF4) who are already used to writing PC code on DX11 AMD parts will have an easier time moving to the PS4. So we may see very good things from Battlefield 4, Watch Dogs, Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag, etc. on the PS4.
idek anymore. Peeps are a mess
I dont know, maybe because Crysis 3 has over 1km long levels so it has streaming tech for open world game already implemented?
Just to remind everyone.
Just because a game is being demoed at E3 doesn't mean it's using the latest build of said game. Devs are more worried about a game crashing than graphical fidelity when it comes to events like that. Also Drive Club demo being 35% doesn't mean the game is only 35% completed. I'm sure the build Evo have in their studio looks way better but is probably more unstable.
keep that in mind.
Just because a game is being demoed at E3 doesn't mean it's using the latest build of said game. Devs are more worried about a game crashing than graphical fidelity when it comes to events like that. Also Drive Club demo being 35% doesn't mean the game is only 35% completed. I'm sure the build Evo have in their studio looks way better but is probably more unstable.
keep that in mind.
PS4 stuff was all running on non-final hardware. Sony seems to be taking a no BS approach to PS4 showing so they don't get crucified by another Kz2 CG fiasco so they probably decided they would rather have a weaker showing at E3 than be accused of smoke and mirrors by using a souped up PC "at PS4 spec".
XBO stuff was on a mix of dev kits and PCs at spec.
Papacheeks
Banned
Not so at all. I work in broadcast, anything higher than 29.97 actually get's played too fast for people's eye to follow.
Look at The hobbit, filmed in 48 frames, and to some it looked great, but when played at 24 some thing's work but other's come off as slow because it was filmed in a higher frame rate.
I'm not saying there isn't a difference, there's a total difference and a lot of times 60FPS makes everything look smoother. But when it comes to high quality "Film" like animation like The last of Us, Uncharted, for film quality playback, 30fps is used more.
Here this wiki just proved my point that not all games need to be 60 or are enhanced by the higher frame rate;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate
I would read the whole wiki, as it explains differences for all medium's including games.
I am not silly, after reading this, BTW I went to school for 3D modeling and animation, and we rendered everything at 24-25fps.
palpabl_purpura
Member
Well it's df and they are know for a heavy ms bias. That being said, it makes no sense to target 30 fps simply because there is zero room for error. If 60 fps is targeted, then a buffer always exists- a small dip better tolerated.
This topic, some of the responses....
One analysis from DF and some people are already heading for the hills.
Mario Kart 8 was 720p 60fps (What Mario Kart game do you know of that has been anything but 60fps?)
Really.... not a single game looked visually impressive to you except Mario Kart?
Metroid Prime 1, 2, 3 and Other M were all 60fps and among the best looking titles on the GCN and the Wii. There is no reason to believe that Metroid U would suddenly drop to 30fps based on past history and Nintendo's love of 60fps.
-_- what?
By that logic the PS360 are incapable of running a 3DS game at 1080p60. Bad port does not equal the best a console can do, if that was true then none of the games we saw at E3 for the WiiU should be running at anything above 30fps just because a port of Revelations wasn't 1080p60. Heck based on that any game that's not as closed off or corridor like as Revelations should be running horribly.
One analysis from DF and some people are already heading for the hills.
Mario Kart 8 was 720p 60fps (What Mario Kart game do you know of that has been anything but 60fps?)
Really.... not a single game looked visually impressive to you except Mario Kart?
Metroid Prime 1, 2, 3 and Other M were all 60fps and among the best looking titles on the GCN and the Wii. There is no reason to believe that Metroid U would suddenly drop to 30fps based on past history and Nintendo's love of 60fps.
-_- what?
By that logic the PS360 are incapable of running a 3DS game at 1080p60. Bad port does not equal the best a console can do, if that was true then none of the games we saw at E3 for the WiiU should be running at anything above 30fps just because a port of Revelations wasn't 1080p60. Heck based on that any game that's not as closed off or corridor like as Revelations should be running horribly.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Jeez man all you ever seem to talk about is Crysis/3!
PanicFreak
Member
I think we're going to need a bigger house.
No. Everything shown is the final build of the game regardless of what the devs say. If they say they're aiming for 60fps, that means they're only going to achieve 30fps. If they say they're aiming for 30fps and are running at 25-30 fps, that means the game is going to have an inconsistent framerate. Oh and 30fps also means the game is going to be bad even though the last entries in the franchise which were good also ran at 30fps.
I've never bought into DF having a bias toward MS. Most of their verdicts are based off of the numbers which for multiplats almost always favored 360. They've given the edge to PS3 whenever it had an advantage.
klapauzius
Banned
Seems the PS4 does not have the "magic" hardware some people wanted to believe.
By the way it is true that Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros will be running in 1080p with 60FPS? ;-)
http://youtu.be/1sLVsJNcAks
By the way it is true that Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros will be running in 1080p with 60FPS? ;-)
http://youtu.be/1sLVsJNcAks
Because the 30fps ?
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
I'm not leaping to any conclusions. I'm simply sceptical of what I've seen of the game so far. The E3 build is supposedly only 35% complete and the game has 6 months to go. Maybe they did go ahead and just pull out an earlier build to send to E3, the final product will decide the truth of that in the end.
Generally you'd want the best build of it you've got, but then there certainly is an argument to be made that the developers would want to focus on the final product instead of expending resources on a fancy E3 build. We simply don't know for sure.
The fact remains, however, that you go to E3 to show off your game. You can't wave away all concerns with claims of incompleteness, since there's zero guarantee they'll be ironed out for the final release. The framerate issues in The Last of Us is proof enough of that.
Edit:
MK8 is 720p.
Hmmm let guess why? Maybe because we are talking about next-gen titles and Crysis 3 is currently the most next-gen game and it was released few months ago?
Mario Kart is 720p 60fps (Some reports of 1080p but no confirmation of that from Nintendo)
Smash Bros is 1080p 60fps (1080p screenshot from Nintendo)
Wow... could you be any more obvious?
division looks better. also Crysis is boring
Calavera520
Member
I'm a little puzzled by a few things. When was it confirmed that that xbone games were running on the actual hardware. Weren't there multiple photos of cabinets with regular windows pcs hooked to demo stations? Also we can probably assume the kz and knack demos are the same as what was brought to the February reveal. Who knows?
cebri.one
Member
It's not a matter of belief is a matter of fact. PS4 is the most powerful console.
Naked Lunch
Member
So what does this mean exactly - Sony and its devs are aiming for insane visuals but keeping games at 30fps? Most of the bigger titles for Xbox 1 are (surprisingly) touting 60fps: Forza, Halo5, Titanfall, Killer Instinct. Ill take smooth gameplay over better eye candy any day of the week. I could give a damn about better textures and lighting. Next gen should be all about 60fps.
travisbickle
Member
Doesn't the same shit happen every E3? By that I mean reviews criticise the technical details of the unfinished, preview game code.
And then developers get pissed off because all they are trying to do is show the playable concepts of their games at the show so people have face-to-face time to discuss the gameplay, you know the main bit of games.
The concept of Driveclub is a group racing game where teams or "clubs" race and challenge each other across different tracks. The Driveclub demo they had running included those features, it was running all day collecting data of players and their races, so it could collate the scores between two different teams and then push new challenges onto new players.
It had the game concept running for everyone to play and enjoy, I'd guess it is probably not the most up-to-date build they had but was able to show the game concept well... yet all people do is bitch about the graphical detail, the one thing we know will be worked on up to launch.
And Knack had the youtube feature running on it's build, so we know it is a build of the game that is integrated with features of the OS, not too shabby but again probably not the most up-to-date build available but one that works well with the OS feature.
You contrast that with the controlled playthroughs, and there the ones that have better graphics but are being reset after every play through to keep the game as bug free as possible.
And then developers get pissed off because all they are trying to do is show the playable concepts of their games at the show so people have face-to-face time to discuss the gameplay, you know the main bit of games.
The concept of Driveclub is a group racing game where teams or "clubs" race and challenge each other across different tracks. The Driveclub demo they had running included those features, it was running all day collecting data of players and their races, so it could collate the scores between two different teams and then push new challenges onto new players.
It had the game concept running for everyone to play and enjoy, I'd guess it is probably not the most up-to-date build they had but was able to show the game concept well... yet all people do is bitch about the graphical detail, the one thing we know will be worked on up to launch.
And Knack had the youtube feature running on it's build, so we know it is a build of the game that is integrated with features of the OS, not too shabby but again probably not the most up-to-date build available but one that works well with the OS feature.
You contrast that with the controlled playthroughs, and there the ones that have better graphics but are being reset after every play through to keep the game as bug free as possible.
Not even 1080p, pre-order cancelled.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Because there is no difference in graphical fidelity between games like Killzone: Shadow Fall and Smash Bros, right?
miDnIghtEr20C
Banned
Been thinking the same thing about all the X1 haters too.
I'm sure that games in 2014 are going to be rocking 60fps for the PS4. Input lag though on the controls for KZ sucks. That killed it for me when playing that game. But hey, I'm a COD/BF guy. Only reason I can't play Halo much is because I need that 60 fps.
Your post make sense, but you (and all other people) must understand it's not a so tragic situation !
I play more than one time all that game and I can assure you I saw nothing that make me scream to the scandal!
Not.at.all.
So folks, stay calm and just wait the final build.
Ps comparing the Wii U games that runs to 1080@60 with the PS4 games it's something that makes this thread looks ridiculous.
Karak
Member
DF confirmed it as did some interviewers and journalists on many podcasts. Some games on final hardware some on dev systems.
Once someone sees a real difference in a 60FPS game they want it for everything. You know how it is.
Thanks for the link.
I was not aware of what, "Micro stuttering," was. I always figured that effect was the result of an insufficient frame rate, but it looks like that isn't the case.
So long as the developers manage to avoid micro stuttering, I'll be fine. I know some people are death on FPS, and I can certainly understand that, but there are worse sins.
DF already had an article on Xbox One. They confirmed that Forza, Ryse and Killer Instinct were running off devkits.
PS4 launch games overall looked rough, but I'm sure they'll be fine. Im looking forward to infamous the most.
Forza was the only xbo game that impressed me visually. I guess not having to worry about day/night or weather makes things a little easier for them. I think its the only racing game coming out not doing these things. it will probably be the weakest racing game once everything comes out.
Forza was the only xbo game that impressed me visually. I guess not having to worry about day/night or weather makes things a little easier for them. I think its the only racing game coming out not doing these things. it will probably be the weakest racing game once everything comes out.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
This must be the most ridiculous comparison I've seen in a long time.
Are we really going to compare a game like MK8 to games like Drive Club and Killzone: SF on graphical fidelity?
seriously?
klapauzius
Banned
look at the last few pages you will be shocked
DriveClub's E3 demo was specifically for E3, AFAIK. That's the impression I got from those demoing it (Evo staff) and features like the cheeky camera snapping the player at the start.
MK8 is a gorgeous game.
Naked Lunch
Member
Excuse me, but the developers behind Forza, Halo5, Titanfall, Killer Instinct, and Battlefield 4 are using 60fps as a selling point. These are big time titles too. Explain that.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I wonder what's the non-final hardware like in PS4 then. Does it use actual APU or not. I'm surprised ther wasn't much talk about it. I understand it was a devkit, but inside a devkit there can be anything really.
Same could be said for Xbox but in that case I've seen they demoed some games in what looked like a production box so I'm guessing it has to be that final hardware is in it.
velociraptor
Junior Member
My Samsung is 40 inches.
My Panny Plasma is 50 inches. Everything looks razor sharp on the Panny.
The shittyness of 720p is instantly notable on the Samsung LED/LCD.