DigitalFoundry: Hands-on with PS4 1080p 30fps...!!
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Dragon1893
Member
Must be the first generational transition for a lot of people here. Drawing conclusions about hardware from launch titles in pre-alpha state? Really?
We have a good idea of what the machines can do from the specs and the games will look the part eventually, PS4 in particular.
We have a good idea of what the machines can do from the specs and the games will look the part eventually, PS4 in particular.
Opus Angelorum
Member
1080p @ 60fps is impressive, no matter what way it's spun.
So much fail that we can't even get 60 fps for next gen consoles.
As someone who abandoned the current gen midway for PC and 60fps what are they thinking? I don't care how good the game looks, give me framerate every and single day.
If the PS4 can't do this then it's dead in the water for PC players like me even with exclusives.
As someone who abandoned the current gen midway for PC and 60fps what are they thinking? I don't care how good the game looks, give me framerate every and single day.
If the PS4 can't do this then it's dead in the water for PC players like me even with exclusives.
TheLaughingStock
Member
That's not a bad thing assuming a stable 60. Been awhile since they did something some gamers will appreciate.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Come on, son.:/
Give a rest with the Microsoft conspiracies. Their marketing probably doesn't even know about framerates.
oldergamer
Member
I think you are wrong on both accounts. First wrong in that MS DID show a bunch of games running on actual hardware, and they were all running at 60fps. You can find out which games just by doing some simple research.
Second, games will not ALWAYS look or run better on PS4 100% of the time. That's a total misconception. Both systems are capable of the same graphical FX. The only difference in graphical hardware that we know of i would manifest itself in a frame rate or resolution variation. This will NOT manifest itself in directly comparable visual differences ( outside of frame rate or resolution), i.e one platform has better textures, or different FX, or can perform better or longer pixel shaders, etc... This isn't AMD vs Nvidia hardware. It's two AMD chips one revision removed from each other.
Anyone that thinks that isn't using common sense.
There's is a darkhorse here in that the xbox has additional hardware to keep the GPU from stalling, and this could possibly explain a design choice to go with what they have. Perhaps they realized that they could get more performance out of a cheaper GPU by preventing stalls in the pipeline, and that is what is making the difference. I really don't know but I think the xbox had some games that were looking in better shape.
Not only is that a stupid thing to say (most people who will buy the console don't know about framerates) but also if that was what they were doing then we should all be hosting festivals for their infinite wisdom.
Is there something you don't understand about making games look better vs FPS. It's easy for them to make a 60FPS stable game. They just remove a bunch of the effects that make you not see jagged edges, or lower the draw distance. It's not as cut and dry as them not being able to code.... they have different priorities. These first games are built to burn your socks off. The non launch titles likely have other focuses. Sony has always liked to show off the graphical power out of the gate, at the expense of high frame rates.
Even without AA, and jaggies everywhere? Resolution and frame rate is not everything.
Them working towards a 60fps goal seems more like an attempt to go after the COD crowd (as if the changes introduced in Halo4 wasn't proof of that). And they're not alone (see BF4)
That's rich! We've gone from "no way can the x1 compete with the power of the ps4" and "the x1 has been downclocked even more to wiiu type levels". Now after seeing actual games running on actual hardware, Microsoft has devised a marketing ploy to double the framerate of their games to cover up for its weak hardware. :lol
velociraptor
Junior Member
The input lag achieved by Motionflow is HORRENDOUS. Games are nigh unplayable.
Resolution improves aa and image quality overall.
We won't have to prove it to random kids.
Killzone Shadow Fall will do this again
What's the story behind this GIF?
Is there a source?
No. Nothing is more important than performance/framerate. It determines how well the interaction works and games are all about interacting with the medium. Framerate is EVERYTHING.
If you can do a steady 30 FPS with graphics that make peoples jaws drop there are really now qualms unless you are playing a First person shooter or fighting game.
Which is what I said...
30fps can be adequate indeed, but it's always inferior to higher framerates. It's quite simple.
I guess we will agree to disagree. Simply having 60 FPS does not make a game better. Simply having amazing graphics does not make a game better. You can have amazing graphics and 30 FPS and make a substantially better game than some toned down game with 60 FPS. The same can be said the other way around.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Yep. I've measured the additional input lag from motionflow on my primary TV at 105ms with a sensor and animated test pattern. With the game's lag (especially in 30fps games) and the TV's base lag stacked on top of that "unplayable" is a fair assessment.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
There are exceptions, but typically 60fps cuts lag roughly in half, not accounting for display lag.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Coding games for 8 cores is pretty new though isn't it?
Which xbox one game runs at 60fps in 1080p with jags everywhere?
This is getting beyond a fucking joke now.
There is the ESRAM that has to be programmed for, so it's not entirely the same. No idea how that will affect things in the long run. I imagine it may have more of an affect towards the end of the generation than the beginning.
What game runs at a native 1080p with 60fps? or are you talking about upresed?
Angelus Errare
Banned
They are it's called PC.
Doesn't forza?
That's wrong. 60FPS noticable lowers input lag and makes the overall game *much* more responsive. It also improves the graphics. 60FPS game plays a lot better.
Some console games, take Last of us as example, with super extra long render pipelines + avg. framerate of sub 30s feel like shit in comparison to a proper 60FPS experience, barely like a game which you can actually take control of, more like a game you somewhat stumble through.
For Forza, yeah, why not (although Forza is the MINIMUM I have been expecting from next-Gen). For 360 games disguised as One titles, aka Killer Instinct, NO!
Opus Angelorum
Member
Forza 5 and Killer Instinct (which run at 1080p / 60fps) show no aliasing or texture filtering issues whatsoever.
Killer Instinct looks beautiful according to a few who have played it, including Maximilian.
I see I miss took it for xbox 360 games;
I am waiting to see hands on on a xbox one console. So far I don't know if anyone has even confirmed forza has been running on xbox one hardware or just dev kits.
Engines migrated to "jobs" scheme in the middle of the last generation, because both ps3/360 had at least 6 threads. So it isn't new either.
Graphics will get better, just not so much as they did on ps3. Supposedly
Opus Angelorum
Member
Good to know. I didn't read much into it, I just remember some units were purportedly running on dev units.
Metalmurphy
Member
We got direct feed of this. It's hardly beautiful.
I wouldn't be shocked at all if this used to be a 360 game and then was uprezed and the cool physics based particles added.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Beautiful is a good enough metric for me. To have titles running at 1080p/60fps is what 'next-generation' encompasses (to me).
90TilInfinity
Member
Ryse and Crimson Dragon (a rail-shooter) run at 30FPS. It's in the report you're quoting.
Fair enough. You could have all of today's consoles catalogue in 1080p at 60 fps. Still wouldn't make them next-gen...
Most true next-gen experiences will have to sacrifice either the resolution or the fluidity (I'm excluding racing games, among other genres). That's a constant trade-off.
Opus Angelorum
Member
I just spotted that, thanks.
Ryse was 30 fps @ unknown resolution.
I don't like when people point forza and killer instinct as proofs for 1080p@60 baby on xbox since fighting games and sim racers NEED 60 fps in first place.
Also 1080p thing need proof in first place. Gran Turismo 5 is 1080p game. Problem is that it is not full 1080p just 1280x1080 (instead of 1920x1080).
Game like Killer Instinct isn't really that demanding from hardware so full 1080p @ 60FPS is really nothing to brag about.
Now games like Battlefield 3, Quantum Break, Titan Fall, Destiny those games running full 1080p at scale presented in trailers would actually be something to brag about.
We need to actually wait for actual DF or other site research into actual released games before we can review something. DF article already debunked than most of trailers we saw were not actually what we saw at E3 (final game look is still in question)
Remember:
HAZE was supposed to be 1080p and we all know how it end up.
GetemMa
Member
WiiU = next gen confirmed.
No no, 60fps compared to 30 makes the game look, feel and play better. It's not a matter of debate. Trimming down graphical effects to target higher framerates is a developer decision and you might prefer a little more unresponsive games with lesserperformance in trade for eye candy and that's fine. But the benefits of locked 60fps are tremendous. One of the reasons why some older games like MGS2 still hold up visually.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
I haven't seen but a handful of PC games that utilize more than 2 cores, but if these console devs are using the same console middle-ware for next gen I'm sure it will need to be updated before we see large improvement optimizations. Not just for threads and core counts but also the optimizations of the new feature sets going from a 6 core RISC to an 8 core CISC architecture.
PushingButtons
Member
I'm just happy the games will finally be 1080p. Yes, 60FPS would be awesome but really, 30FPS is quite sufficient (as long as it's a locked 30).
Metalmurphy
Member
I think TTT2 at 1080p60 would ended up being the prettier game overall if I'm honest.