Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen

Just picked up this beasty in anticipation of next gen.

http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/tv-audio-video/television/led-tv/UA40F6700AMXXY

au_UA40F6700AMXXY_010_Front_black
 
BruiserBear said:
I would recommend anyone looking at TVs in this thread to read this article first.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/

Don't accept a tv with more than 40 milliseconds of input lag.
Click to expand...


And to think the Panasonic plasmas have been recommended for gaming on this very thread, when the S60 is the only model with an acceptable input lag. SMH

So if you're an avid twitch gamer, should you buy a TV like the Panasonic TC-PST60, a model I gave 9/10 for picture quality, but which scored a Poor 75.73 on my input lag test? No, you shouldn't. Instead, the S60 would be an excellent alternative. If you're less avid, or play less twitchy games, input lag should be less of a consideration.
Click to expand...
 
BruiserBear said:
I would recommend anyone looking at TVs in this thread to read this article first.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57587317-221/game-mode-on-cnet-tests-tvs-for-input-lag/

Don't accept a tv with more than 40 milliseconds of input lag.
Click to expand...
More like don't accept a TV with more than 30 ms of input lag.

My Samsung has 40 and there is a pretty stark difference between gaming on this versus gaming on my Panasonic Plasma. I'm horrible at COD at my TV, acceptable on the plasma. Heh.
 
Fezan said:
is there really a difference in quality between 39 and 40 inch ? worth spending $55 more ?
Click to expand...


Well, Samsung tvs mount many differently sourced panels, you can't know which one prior to buy, so theoretically you can't know in advance how two pieces actually compare if not putting them side by side.

Consider that 40" panels on this model are mainly made by Samsung itself or Sharp, so they're assured high quality. 39" panels are born as a size for budget tvs and are made by chinese subsidiaries.

If you're not on super tight budget, just for peace of mind, I'd go with the 40", you also get a little more size, but it's only a personal thought.
 
Melchiah said:
And to think the Panasonic plasmas have been recommended for gaming on this very thread, when the S60 is the only model with an acceptable input lag. SMH
Click to expand...

Not accurate. ST50 got all recommendations while ST60 lag was noted and acknowledged in many occasions before CNET even run that testing.
 
Any one have or has tried the 60 R550A from Sony? I thinking about that one versus a 65 S64 plasma. My only concern with the plasma is image retention from TV logos.
 
McHuj said:
Any one have or has tried the 60 R550A from Sony? I thinking about that one versus a 65 S64 plasma. My only concern with the plasma is image retention from TV logos.
Click to expand...

All plasmas these days have an image shift feature. It periodically shifts the displayed image some number of pixels to prevent IR from logos and such.

(I myself can't use this feature while gaming because my plasma's game mode, which has the lowest lag, doesn't support it. So I just move the image myself from time to time. It potentially sucks but I'm used to it.)
 
Chumpion said:
All plasmas these days have an image shift feature. It periodically shifts the displayed image some number of pixels to prevent IR from logos and such.
Click to expand...

Which doesn't do shit to prevent IR or burn in. You could actually argue that it makes the IR even worse because the IR will be slightly blurry because of the moving. It also shifts one pixel line. ONE! Now go back and think how large your logos in games etc. are.

Bottom line is to turn that shit off.
 
Lima said:
Which doesn't do shit to prevent IR or burn in. You could actually argue that it makes the IR even worse because the IR will be slightly blurry because of the moving. It also shifts one pixel line. ONE! Now go back and think how large your logos in games etc. are.

Bottom line is to turn that shit off.
Click to expand...

This is a debated matter. On my Panasonic, image is shifted way more than one pixel line, it's about 1cm on every side. So, for standard white text or thin lines, it should do the work. Not really for big hud elements like fighting game bars.

More relevant problem, is the fact that image shifting will leave you small black borders that on the long time could burn in.
Unless you always keep overscan on, but losing in this case 5% portion of picture and 1:1 mapping on 1080p content.

tl;dr keep orbiter and overscan on for max (not guaranteed) protection, turn them off for proper viewing.
 
No it will not do the job. Every single logo or HUD is bigger than the pixel lines that get shifted around. It does nothing to prevent IR. End of story.
 
Planning on buying the Panny S60 soon for next gen. A friend just got the ST60 and I didn't notice any bad lag at all. Most likely because our current Samsung LCD TV's had high lag. So I'm not too worried there. Besides, the S60 is the lowest Panny Plasma for lag.
 
Lima said:
No it will not do the job. Every single logo or HUD is bigger than the pixel lines that get shifted around. It does nothing to prevent IR. End of story.
Click to expand...

You say this for personal experience or? Unless you have full 100% white logos, in a smaller multicolored draw, shifting should bring a relative benefit anyway, no?
 
I've had a Pioneer Kuro and I'm now on my third Panasonic plasma. (actually since my VT50 was serviced you could say I'm on my fourth. I had the VT30, the VT50 and now the VT60.

I also calibrate TV's using an i1Pro so I have seen numerous plasmas over the years.

With every single Panasonic plasma I can clearly tell if they have the pixel orbiter on if I put on a full white or light gray image. The logos leave a negative image if they are about to burn in and you can clearly see that these logos are slightly blurred. Since they are so big they just get moved a little and cause IR on a part of the panel where the logo otherwise wouldn't be if the orbiter would be turned off.

I've also saw this recently on my own VT60 where I used the orbiter and played State of Decay straight for 19 hours and 20 hours over the next few days. The game has a constant hud and minimap.

You also don't get pixel perfect mapping and parts of the HUD could be cut off if it uses all of the image and enabling overscan just makes the picture look worse.

There is no verified research on this subject but many of the ISF calibrators on AVS also think the option is kinda useless. It is more of a marketing thing.
 
Deadly Cyclone said:
Planning on buying the Panny S60 soon for next gen. A friend just got the ST60 and I didn't notice any bad lag at all. Most likely because our current Samsung LCD TV's had high lag. So I'm not too worried there. Besides, the S60 is the lowest Panny Plasma for lag.
Click to expand...

Same here. I planned on getting the ST60 but just knowing the input lag is bad even if I can't tell it is there will bother me. Throw in the fact that I have no interest at all in 3D it seemed like a waste of an extra $300 to jump from the S60 to the ST60.
 
Lima said:
I've had a Pioneer Kuro and I'm now on my third Panasonic plasma. (actually since my VT50 was serviced you could say I'm on my fourth. I had the VT30, the VT50 and now the VT60.

I also calibrate TV's using an i1Pro so I have seen numerous plasmas over the years.

With every single Panasonic plasma I can clearly tell if they have the pixel orbiter on if I put on a full white or light gray image. The logos leave a negative image if they are about to burn in and you can clearly see that these logos are slightly blurred. Since they are so big they just get moved a little and cause IR on a part of the panel where the logo otherwise wouldn't be if the orbiter would be turned off.

I've also saw this recently on my own VT60 where I used the orbiter and played State of Decay straight for 19 hours and 20 hours over the next few days. The game has a constant hud and minimap.

You also don't get pixel perfect mapping and parts of the HUD could be cut off if it uses all of the image and enabling overscan just makes the picture look worse.

There is no verified research on this subject but many of the ISF calibrators on AVS also think the option is kinda useless. It is more of a marketing thing.
Click to expand...


Thank you very much for your detailed report, very useful post. I was still reluctant to abandon orbiter mainly at this point for psychological reasons, but it wasn't actually that great to live with overscan on every source. I'll gladly turn it off, then.
 
It all depends on how you use the TV. I mean it doesn't hurt the panel if you like to leave it on and makes you feel more safe. But I have seen numerous Panasonic plasmas where logos that are about to burn in look worse because of the orbiter.
 
I´m going to buy a Sony KD-55X9005A. 4.500 euros of glorious 4K, with the best 3D possible. It will come to my house with my PS4.

Yes, I know it's expensive, but I can buy it and I know I want it. A little luxury that compensate some negative aspects of my life.
 
Lima said:
There is no verified research on this subject but many of the ISF calibrators on AVS also think the option is kinda useless. It is more of a marketing thing.
Click to expand...

Okay, I stand corrected. They really should increase the amount of shifting then. On my set (Samsung) I think the maximum total shift is 16 pixels. It doesn't affect 1:1 pixel mapping, by the way.
 
unholyrevenger72 said:
Is there is a Latency Database for modern TV's somewhere? since CRT's have gone the way of the Dodo
Click to expand...

Simple Google search brought up plenty of search results.

Just as a side note. My new Vizio 55 Inch I just purchased has a faster input lag than my older Plasma.

It isn't just forgone conclusion that plasma TV's immediately have better lag times than newer LCDs.

My Panasonic TC-P60VT60 is actually slower than my Vizio E50i-A1

Not by anything noticeable, but I can slightly feel it playing on both.
 
Chumpion said:
Okay, I stand corrected. They really should increase the amount of shifting then. On my set (Samsung) I think the maximum total shift is 16 pixels. It doesn't affect 1:1 pixel mapping, by the way.
Click to expand...

How is this possible. It would have to effect 1:1 pixel mapping. You should have large empty space on the tops or bottoms of the image. You just probably doesn't see it because you don't have a full screen pattern up.

Most if not all displays will let you leave 1:1 on but with orbiter on you are not getting 1:1
 
I am really thinking about making the switch to plasma from a 4-5 year old Sony Bravia LCD. From the research I have done,the Panasonic S60 model seems to be the best plasma for playing video games since the input lag isn't to bad. I do have a few questions if anyone could help.

For the most part the TV will be used for Sports, Blu-rays, and gaming. My fiancee also does some basic TV watching and netflix. Is this TV good for me or is LED/LCD a better option?

I also read people had issues while watching or playing hockey games because of ABL. Will this be really noticeable for me if I am "used to" a LCD tv?

Is buzzing an issue with these models?

I read a lot about IR and see it still is a problem. But how bad is it in most people's experience? I don't have to many marathon gaming sessions anymore, but once in awhile I will. I also watch a lot of sports and they have the tickers on the bottom of the screen. How long is to long to watch or play? Am I just worrying to much about IR?

And my last question, my living room has a few windows that would be on the wall that is on the side of where the TV would be. They do have shades on them and I would say during the day it is moderately bright. Will this be an issue for me?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
I'll throw my experience in here with the IR and pixel orbiter/overscan.

I have a crappy $500 samsung plasma in the bedroom, my wife loves watching investigation discovery but it has a huge ass logo. Because of this I enabled the overscan and pixel shift on it, it basically still left IR (at this point I'm pretty sure its Burn In) but instead of crisp IR is smeared it. Looks like shit. Not too noticeable though during regular content. So I said screw it and turned both options off.

Now in the living room I recently got an ST60. I decided to run lower contrast than normal and still keep pixel orbiter and overscan on. My wife watched investigation discovery for a few hours, and maybe a tad, really hard to see IR would develop but I had to struggle hard to see it even on white screen. So I figured I'm gonna keep my contrast still low (real low) and turn off orbiter and overscan. Wife watched some investigation discovery and I check for IR, crisp as can be it had left the logo. Took a few days to get it to fade (on white screens, normal viewing I couldn't see it). So I enabled both again after that had faded and no real image retention, and if there is its really faint and blurry I can't make it out even on white screens.

So it just depends. My panasonic seems to handle the pixel shift/orbiter better than the samsung in regards to IR and the blurring of it. I have yet to game with a static HUD so that will be quite a test and I fully expect some image retention to be left to some degree.

One little trick that will help a bit I've found that if you alternate between overscan off and overscan on it will change the size and placement of the logo/hud, help not make it stick "as bad". But certain HUDS and logos are so damn big there is not a lot you can do.

For as much pain in the ass it is with image retention issues, the ST60 is by far the best picture I have seen, ESPECIALLY for the price. If I wanted an LED that could get in the same ballpark picture wise I'd be spending 2,800 or more. I just can't justify it. If I could I'd probably go with an LED cause its the set it and forget it with no real worries. But not for twice the price.

Each have their problems, its basically pick your poison. If all I ever did was game though, or at least was a SUPER heavy gamer, I would not get a plasma at all. Unless image retention doesn't bother you. Cause it is still an issue for "most" plasmas in one form or the other.
 
DomLando said:
I am really thinking about making the switch to plasma from a 4-5 year old Sony Bravia LCD. From the research I have done,the Panasonic S60 model seems to be the best plasma for playing video games since the input lag isn't to bad. I do have a few questions if anyone could help.

For the most part the TV will be used for Sports, Blu-rays, and gaming. My fiancee also does some basic TV watching and netflix. Is this TV good for me or is LED/LCD a better option?

I also read people had issues while watching or playing hockey games because of ABL. Will this be really noticeable for me if I am "used to" a LCD tv?

Is buzzing an issue with these models?

I read a lot about IR and see it still is a problem. But how bad is it in most people's experience? I don't have to many marathon gaming sessions anymore, but once in awhile I will. I also watch a lot of sports and they have the tickers on the bottom of the screen. How long is to long to watch or play? Am I just worrying to much about IR?

And my last question, my living room has a few windows that would be on the wall that is on the side of where the TV would be. They do have shades on them and I would say during the day it is moderately bright. Will this be an issue for me?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Samsungs seem to have the biggest ABL issues.

TV and netflix are fine, just be aware of certain station logos that are big and stark white or colored, as if left on long enough could leave a degree of image retention.

Buzzing is an issue with some plasmas. Unfortunately it seems to vary from tv to tv. My st60 and samsung plasma has pretty much zero buzz thankfully.

Best advice on IR is don't obsess or go looking for it (advice I need to learn to follow myself lol). Plus there are ways even if you do get some that can help make it fade. Watching regular full screen, no logo content like on HBO or running the screen wipe feature over night or for an extended period of time, or Disney has the World of Wonder bluray that features a "pixel flipper" that works really well.

My living room has windows just like you describe and for the most part the blinds tend to be enough help in knocking down the light. But if you plan on opening those blinds while the tv is on, it will look washed out. The samsung 8500 is the best option for bright rooms but it costs a pretty penny.
 
FrankNitty said:
How is this possible. It would have to effect 1:1 pixel mapping. You should have large empty space on the tops or bottoms of the image. You just probably doesn't see it because you don't have a full screen pattern up.
Click to expand...

No, sorry, I just meant that it doesn't blur the image. There are black bars, of course.
 
DomLando said:
I also read people had issues while watching or playing hockey games because of ABL. Will this be really noticeable for me if I am "used to" a LCD tv?

And my last question, my living room has a few windows that would be on the wall that is on the side of where the TV would be. They do have shades on them and I would say during the day it is moderately bright. Will this be an issue for me?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

You might notice ABL kick in on bright scenes or whites coming from an LCD. If you have something that is extremely bright and ABL kicks in you may see the shift. Hard to say some people see it others do not, or they see it and do not know what it is.

If you have light shining on the screen then it would wash it out some. Meaning if you have sunlight hitting the screen directly as if you would shine a flashlight at it. Just a moderately lit room would be fine.


rocksteady1983 said:
Samsungs seem to have the biggest ABL issues.
Click to expand...

This is not entirely true. If anything Panasonics are the biggest offender here. With Samsungs you can calibrate with APL windows and have the picture remain almost the same. Where as with Panasonic you can as well but chances are if you go over a 22% APL Window(depending on the size of the window) ABL will kick in. Usually 18% is good if you have a small enough window. Samsungs can go 22% no problem without ABL kicking in from what what I have seen on previous models. Really the only way to know for sure is to test APL on each panel.

The Samsung 8500 is a perfect example of a less aggressive ABL circuit. where the ZT and VT show how aggressive panasonics can be.
 
Thinking of picking up these bad boys:
amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BV6411Q/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&psc=1&s=home-theater

£250 off the asking price, that's a great deal and this TV has had brilliant reviews all round. Anyone else have one?
 
DomLando said:
I am really thinking about making the switch to plasma from a 4-5 year old Sony Bravia LCD. From the research I have done,the Panasonic S60 model seems to be the best plasma for playing video games since the input lag isn't to bad. I do have a few questions if anyone could help.

For the most part the TV will be used for Sports, Blu-rays, and gaming. My fiancee also does some basic TV watching and netflix. Is this TV good for me or is LED/LCD a better option?

I also read people had issues while watching or playing hockey games because of ABL. Will this be really noticeable for me if I am "used to" a LCD tv?

Is buzzing an issue with these models?

I read a lot about IR and see it still is a problem. But how bad is it in most people's experience? I don't have to many marathon gaming sessions anymore, but once in awhile I will. I also watch a lot of sports and they have the tickers on the bottom of the screen. How long is to long to watch or play? Am I just worrying to much about IR?

And my last question, my living room has a few windows that would be on the wall that is on the side of where the TV would be. They do have shades on them and I would say during the day it is moderately bright. Will this be an issue for me?

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...



I just got done from a 3 hour session of Injustice(tons of HUDs) and zero IR with my ZT60.

And my Wife pretty much watches 99% of her TV with logo's everywhere(Food Network, E, Bravo, etc..) and no logo burn in after a 5 weeks of daily use :)
 
mr stroke said:
I just got done from a 3 hour session of Injustice(tons of HUDs) and zero IR with my ZT60.

And my Wife pretty much watches 99% of her TV with logo's everywhere(Food Network, E, Bravo, etc..) and no logo burn in after a 5 weeks of daily use :)
Click to expand...

Pretty much the same with me. I have had my ZT since May and it has every day use with the same channels, Food, Bravo, and Adult Swim and no IR Some games here and there and plenty of movies some full screen some letter boxed.
 
For all those in the know talking about the input lag on the ST60 Panasonic Plasma.....

I'm new to the idea of input lag and was wondering if these videos, between the ST30 (which has supposedly very low/minimal input lag) and the ST60 (which has supposedly very high/bad input lag) do a good job at actually showcasing this said difference in input lag?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJSAWczrwUI&list=TLlTgClxPciZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhBRhQBE-PY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUHt6bBtJg&list=TLT6Lhz-y5Lkg

I came across these videos on AVS Forums BTW.


I have a very hard time seeing the difference, especially in the Killzone 3 videos between the ST30 and the ST60
 
Skel1ingt0n said:
Anybody have any comments on the LG 55GA7900 55" 3D :LED TV, specifically in regard to gaming?

I've never owned - and honestly, probably wouldn't have ever chosen to own - an LG. It took me years to finally recognize that Samsung had caught up to Sony in the TV race; and even still, I'd probably keep an eye on the Panasonic plasmas.

But, thing is, I really wanted to stay under $800 - making great choices limited, especially for larger sizes. But Microcenter has this guy for $1000 even - a HECK of a deal, and a solid ~$800 cheaper than Amazon/Best Buy; and an even bigger reduction from MSRP. Plus, it comes with a year of Netflix, saving me another $100+. So yeah, worth it to pull the trigger?
Click to expand...

I own an LG 47LM6700 and it works great for gaming...you just have to make sure you set the picture mode to "Game" on your console inputs and you've got a great 16ms input lag. If you don't do that, however, it's somewhere in the 120ms range, which is horrendously noticeable in almost every genre, but especially twitch games.

For your specific model you referenced, check this post out on AVSForum that seems to corroborate my experience with the LM6700 series:

In game mode I experienced no noticeable input lag (it does make the picture somewhat less vibrant color-wise). To address that, I tried putting it in standard picture mode and that introduced noticeable input lag. So I switched back to game mode.
Click to expand...

Overall, that set's a steal at $1K, and the Google TV features would be nice, especially considering LG's Smart TV apps aren't anything to write home about. Good luck!
 
MikeE21286 said:
For all those in the know talking about the input lag on the ST60 Panasonic Plasma.....

I'm new to the idea of input lag and was wondering if these videos, between the ST30 (which has supposedly very low/minimal input lag) and the ST60 (which has supposedly very high/bad input lag) do a good job at actually showcasing this said difference in input lag?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJSAWczrwUI&list=TLlTgClxPciZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhBRhQBE-PY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuUHt6bBtJg&list=TLT6Lhz-y5Lkg

I came across these videos on AVS Forums BTW.


I have a very hard time seeing the difference, especially in the Killzone 3 videos between the ST30 and the ST60
Click to expand...

You can't *see* inputlag, you *feel* it joypad at hand. And when it's too much, it feels horribly, trust me. Don't underestimate inputlag importance only because you hadn't noticed before.

Luckily, there is enough info and choices today to make a conscious purchase.
 
Bill Rizer said:
You can't *see* inputlag, you *feel* it joypad at hand. And when it's too much, it feels horribly, trust me. Don't underestimate inputlag importance only because you hadn't noticed before.

Luckily, there is enough info and choices today to make a conscious purchase.
Click to expand...

gotcha. makes sense. Thanks!
 
Hey guys... so I'm about to get a new television (will be my first flatscreen/hd, lol). Anyway, I wanted to just kinda see if there's any extra advice before I bite the bullet.

I'm hoping for larger screen size and lower display lag. Image quality isn't really a concern, but I guess that'd be nice too. I'm trying to find something within a $500 budget, 37-42 inches, with the lowest possible lag. DisplayLag's database seems to lead me to: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00723QKVQ/?tag=neogaf0e-20 (the 40 inch version if not autoselected). I'm not sure how comprehensive the database is though... so are there any other recommendations? Words of caution about that particular model?

Also, should I wait or go ahead? I'm not really wanting to deal with purchasing a television on Black Friday. And I need a new screen before I have a PS4 or X1. Not sure if there would really be much benefit to holding off or not.
 
Why people like plasma so much here specifically panasonic, at times it seems like viral marketing.

Explain to me why "panny" is better than that LED samsung above?, to me that looks like
very good tv
 
mark93 said:
The tv go at 1920x1080p, but is an HD ready not a Full HD. Why support that resolution?
I tought that an HD ready max resolution was 1920x1080i not 1080p
Click to expand...

No idea then without knowing specifics about the model. Maybe your ps3 is trying to switch to that resolution? Did you check your PS3 settings and remove checks next to unsupported resolutions for your tv?
 
Joeki11a said:
Why people like plasma so much here specifically panasonic, at times it seems like viral marketing.

Explain to me why "panny" is better than that LED samsung above?, to me that looks like
very good tv
Click to expand...

If you can't take the time to read the last few pages, then you have no room to accuse anyone of viral marketing. And just because Panasonics Plasmas are killing everything else in picture quality, cost etc doesnt mean any of us are paid by Panny. Smh.
 
Joeki11a said:
Why people like plasma so much here specifically panasonic, at times it seems like viral marketing.

Explain to me why "panny" is better than that LED samsung above?, to me that looks like
very good tv
Click to expand...

It's based on quantifiable, measured performance. Black level, white balance, color accuracy, gamma, motion resolution ect... This isn't something that's limited to forums trolls, professional reviewers and calibrators will pretty much unanimously recommend plasma for pure picture quality. That's not to say PDP's are for everyone and every use, but it's why they're recommended so often.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Sony unveils next-gen RGB mini-LED TV Tech | "OLED Killer?"
2 3
118
7K
dave_d replied
  • Poll
hypothetical: 1080p 60hz OLED, or 4k 144hz LCD?
21
661
mèx replied
  • Poll
Switch 1 OLED or Switch 2 (LCD?) for a newcomer?
Poll Hardware  2 3
105
4K
Pandawan replied
OLED gaming tv recommendations
2
70
6K
ValiantInstance replied
Gaming TV that won't break the bank? Maybe an OLED?
43
1K
KungFucius replied
Top Bottom