RedAssedApe
Banned
lol viral marketing. we could say the same about the people who champion LCDs as all the reviews and professionals are firmly in the plasma camp. 
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Agh, I'm now wavering. Do I go with the less input lag 65" Panny S60 for $1300 or the better quality 60" Panny ST60 (with 3D and more apps) for $1500?
Hmmmmmmmm.
Hmmmmmmmm.
McHuj
Member
Only if 3D is a absolute must have feature for you. The console of your choice will blow away the app offerings and performance of any TV.
Other thing to consider is the reflection filter, the S60 doesn't have one.
RedAssedApe
Banned
I'd read about dudes who got best buy to plug consoles or brought their own to test this kind of stuff lol
ST will net you deeper blacks and much better performance in a lit environment thanks to the filter.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
My TV is near a set of double doors, so that reflection filter would help. It just kills me to spend $200 more on a smaller TV. Albeit the quality is better.
A friend just got the 55" ST60 and doesn't notice any lag issues. We both have been using Samsung LCD TVs for about 3 years now so maybe the lag is similar. If so then it shouldn't be an issue.
Maybe I go with the ST60 just for the filter and better quality. I think a 60" might work better in my space too.
A friend just got the 55" ST60 and doesn't notice any lag issues. We both have been using Samsung LCD TVs for about 3 years now so maybe the lag is similar. If so then it shouldn't be an issue.
Maybe I go with the ST60 just for the filter and better quality. I think a 60" might work better in my space too.
mr stroke
Member
The light one(on left)is the Panasonic LED LCD The dark one(on the right) is the Panasonic ST60 Plasma
grap3fruitman
Banned
Get ZTs, all of you.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Cheese Raptor
Banned
Quit making me want to buy the st60 >_<
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
So does no one know?
If not then I don't know where else to ask this question but, how do the panny plasmas compare to a monitor like this?
Your help would be much appreciated!
FrankNitty
Member
Really like Realink said it comes down to the proven performance of these displays. It is a generally accepted across most specturms that plasma is better. In multiple post in this thread many have pointed out why, such as what Reallink just did.
When it came to wanting the very best in PQ for a flat panel for years and in some cases still your only option is a Pioneer Kuro mainly Elites and the KRP series. When Pioneer exited the market you still had a handful of plasma manufactures, and Panasonic just tended to do it better then everyone else.
For years now Panasonic has been filling that Kuro void (though no Kuro it's pretty damn close and the only manufacture that has came close to what they achieved)
Not saying there are not good option in other technologies or from other manufactures because there are. The sad truth is even the ones that are comparable are still not as good as the best panasonics and even then some compaies best isn't even as good as panasonics mid range for pure PQ. LED sure if you want a HX929, or a x5fd you can get close, but again Plasma still trumps them at less cost. Samsung I have to admit changed the game this year and is panasonics only real competition. It really comes down to what your needs are and cannot go wrong with either.
As for why it is better then the Samsung really you have to look at a few things. One is it edge lit or full array probably edge lit which is meh not that great. How any local dimming zones does it have. does it exhibit halos/flashlighting, How does it handle motion resolution. All of these things come into play. Whats it MLL (minimum luminescence level) What's it's peak white. This effect contrast ratio, which is one of your main PQ attributes.
Plasma kills LED/LCD in these things. Then Panasonic does it better then the rest of the plasma
FrankNitty
Member
Check costco Panasonic made a special model for them I believe that is the S60 but it has a different number. Like S64 or something. Same thing though.
haZethew0rld
Member
I've only seen those in my local Sears, try using the store locator button to see if there's any store in your area carrying them.
Get the S64, has the antireflective coating of the ST60. $1300 at Costco for 65" S64.
I will buy a ZT60 65" in a few months and use my S64 in another room. Will be interesting to compare the picture quality between the two.
Has anyone made the jump from S60 to VT60?
I've been planning on saving up for a Panny VT for next gen, but from everything i've read, the S60 is very close in picture quality with less input lag. For those with hands on experience with both...Has the VT been worth the extra $500? Thanks.
I've been planning on saving up for a Panny VT for next gen, but from everything i've read, the S60 is very close in picture quality with less input lag. For those with hands on experience with both...Has the VT been worth the extra $500? Thanks.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
The light one(on left)is the Panasonic LED LCD The dark one(on the right) is the Panasonic ST60 Plasma
Jesus Christ, do people know LCD's have backlight control?
Looks like they jacked up the back lighting way up high, which is only needed in bright rooms.
I have a question about my TV.
Samsung LE32A....
720p 32", sitting 2-3m away from it....shouldn't much of a difference between 1080p and 720p right?
2nd question, i have my tv since 5~ years and now my tv randomly starts switching itself off. Sometimes it even happens a few timesin a row and then it also happens that i have to unplug my tv from the power source and wait for abit to plug it in again, what could cause this problems?
Samsung LE32A....
720p 32", sitting 2-3m away from it....shouldn't much of a difference between 1080p and 720p right?
2nd question, i have my tv since 5~ years and now my tv randomly starts switching itself off. Sometimes it even happens a few timesin a row and then it also happens that i have to unplug my tv from the power source and wait for abit to plug it in again, what could cause this problems?
$1210 Aus @ JBHIFI
That is definitely too far away. Move your seat or buy a bigger TV.
For your 2nd question. That is a common problem with Samsung's as they get older (and 5 years is fucking old in this day and age for a TV). The electrolytic capacitors are almost done. This means that it could take longer to turn the TV on, or in your case it shuts off.
There are some instructions out there on how to replace them yourself (it is a relatively cheap fix) but if I were you I would just buy a new TV. Let it die. It has lived its life.
I just got a Philips 55 PFL7007.
The tv is amazing, nice design, and nice post-processing for all htdtv content. I have just played some minutes of Halo4 at the moment, and it looks so much better than my old LG. But the best thing is the ambilight. I don't think I can live without it anymore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPhhdUriRAE (not my video, but an example of the ambilight)
The tv is amazing, nice design, and nice post-processing for all htdtv content. I have just played some minutes of Halo4 at the moment, and it looks so much better than my old LG. But the best thing is the ambilight. I don't think I can live without it anymore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPhhdUriRAE (not my video, but an example of the ambilight)
Lv99 Slacker
Member
There was a much discussed (on the AVS Forum) shootout between the ZT60 and the F8500, where the F8500 beat it out. The Samsung model's black levels isn't as deep as the Panny's (still better than most), but it countered with a really bright white level that the ZT60 can't match. The colors on the Samsung are really bright, and the set works really well in brightly lit rooms.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_...f8500-plasma-wins-value-electronics-shootout/
fuzzyreactor
Banned
looking for a new tv in the US
low response time
around 47 inches
i prefer glossy screens
dont want to spend more than $700
any suggestions
low response time
around 47 inches
i prefer glossy screens
dont want to spend more than $700
any suggestions
RepairmanJack
Member
Getting the ST60 this weekend, response time worries be damned. Wanted this TV for too long and finally deciding to pull the trigger.
fuzzyreactor
Banned
what is the response time on that set
Any of you know of a good place to order TV's in Germany?
Currently looking to buy the TV as cheap as possible, and Germany should be a viable contender.
Flatpanels.dk reports 35-45ms in game mode, whilst AVSForum says around 50 ms.
This guy on YouTube also have several videos out regarding ST60 input lag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJSAWczrwUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhBRhQBE-PY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKz04nNHlss
Currently looking to buy the TV as cheap as possible, and Germany should be a viable contender.
Flatpanels.dk reports 35-45ms in game mode, whilst AVSForum says around 50 ms.
This guy on YouTube also have several videos out regarding ST60 input lag:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJSAWczrwUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhBRhQBE-PY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKz04nNHlss
All you of looking for Panasonic plasmas, don't forget about the GT, slightly better than the ST and like half the input lag. I think it only comes in 42" and 50" though, I could be wrong on that.
(Ah, not available in the US)
Also, here's a nice summary of Panasonics 2013 models, both Plasma and LED/LCD.
(Ah, not available in the US)
Also, here's a nice summary of Panasonics 2013 models, both Plasma and LED/LCD.
RepairmanJack
Member
40-70ish is what I'm seeing. Not sure on why the varied results.
Not the cheapest but the best place in Germany is Amazon of course. Very easy to return the TV if there is something wrong with it.
I'M GIVING THE ORDERS! I'll use my TV until it no longer switches on.
Looks like the LED is that light because of a reflection off of the screen.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I'd do that but I need to get it from Best Buy so I can get the 18 month no interest thing and use some gift cards. I think I'm set on the ST60 now.
vpance
Member
I think it's most noticeable when using PC UIs since there wouldn't be any existing lag controlling windows with a mouse, so it would all be display lag.
MikeE21286
Member
3D is a waste (I have one and never use it) and the apps you can always replicate with something simple like Chromecast or Apple TV or Roku ---- Smart TV apps are pretty bad in my experience.
I'd honestly say get the S60 (or S64 if you can)
If I were buying right now (which I shouldn't be but I kind of want to) I would be getting one of those two sets. Probably the S64 at 55 inches.
VlaudTheImpaler
tl;dr
Thanks! I found the 42" version on Sears website.
However, can anyone tell me why the 42" S60 is more expensive than the 50" S60? Is it really just the sale? Is there something wrong with the 50 inch? Or is the 42" really a better tv because of pixel density like I thought? Please forgive me if these seem like dumb questions, I am fairly new to this.
FunkyPajamas
Member
Should I be worried about response time if I don't do multiplayer gaming? I only play single player and every once in a while I do a bit of co-op with a real life friend.
rocksteady1983
Member
In your case I wouldn't worry too much about it.
hellmonkey
Member
I got the Panasonic 55UT50 and could not be happier. There is some image retention from bright/white logos, but I can watch Lord of the Rings and not have any bars when done. Gaming is amazing on it. BTW, playing Dark Souls with no HUD is awesome. Coming from an old ass 720 DLP, it made my eyes bleed. The XMB is glorious. I know it sounds weird, but I noticed how much better it looked the instant I turned my ps3 on. I cant wait for next gen and 1080p gaming.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
So how bad is the input lag on the new Samsung 8500? I've heard awful....
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Yeah, I'm leaning again. Anyone here have the S60? How is it in lighter rooms? That's what I'm worried about.
EhrgeizVII
Member
Been playing on my 50" VT50 for about three months now, and it's been a blast. I've replayed a couple of games just to see it with this picture quality. I can never, ever go back to an LCD screen. The other day I was at my brother's house and he wanted to check out The Last of Us, so he fired up his Sony LED TV... My eyes were bleeding. Seriously, I think I played with his picture settings for over an hour just to get it to be decent. It's not the colors though, it's just the black levels are horrendous and the "clouding" effect really bothered me. Plasma's not perfect but it's so much better than LCD in about everything it does. Can't stress this enough.
POWERSPHERE
Member
I just got an ST60 and I don't play FPSs but from what games i've played, the lag isn't noticeable at all.
FrankNitty
Member
People are still arguing about that on AVS lol. 2 people in particular come to mind lol
I at one point almost cancelled my order on my ZT for an 8500. The 8500 is a damn fine display. If I did a majority of my watching in lit rooms or during the day I would have gotten an 8500 no questions asked, but seeing as how I watch and play mainly at night I kept the ZT but only after hours of trying to decide and letting my wife choose
One thing that interesting and not really mentioned is that the filter on the 8500 is almost as good as the ZT and the 8500 filter is actually better then the VT's. So with the light output of the 8500 and such a strong filter it is definitely a better daytime performer then the ZT. At night though the ZT would take it because of the black levels.
8500 is such a nice display. This was the first model year I actually had a hard time deciding. It was a toss up and I actually let my wife pick in the end.
What's interesting also is that the 8500 won the peoples vote while the Zt/VT won the Experts vote. It goes to show that brightness plays a huge part in peoples decision which is why LCD does so well. Samsung did a good job. I know panasonic noticed, hopefully they will implement the same thing in their panels.
Looking at these you can see that the input lag talk is blown out of proportions, people getting hung up on numbers.
BruiserBear
Banned
Every single interaction with the TV is going to suffer a delay. This story people tell that it only effects "twitch FPS" is nonsense. It effects every single moment of every single game you play. You hit the button and it takes much longer than it should to react. Every game you play will feel different than it should as a result, and many games will be more difficult for you playing them on that TV.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
"Much" longer is relative though. A friend just got the 50" ST60 and has noticed no lag difference from his old set, and is thus very happy with the TV. The old set may have had similar lag, but it never hindered his play in CoD or anything.
BruiserBear
Banned
Yeah, and people may not notice the lag, until they play the game on a TV with low input lag, and then they're like "holy shit".
It happened to me, and that's how I know. I bought a big TV with 60ish milliseconds of input lag. I played games on it and thought it was fine. Then one day I plugged my 360 into a smaller TV I had upstairs, that happened to have very low input lag, and I was shocked at the difference. I immediately knew something was different, and the games "felt" better.
So yeah, you can play games on a 60ms tv, but just know that you're playing with a weight tied to your neck. Some games are going to be tougher as a result, and you won't even know it was easier for other people without high input lag TVs. If you can live with that than go for it. For me videogames are about the gameplay, and anything that messes with that is totally unacceptable.
I don't have a TV at the moment, but I've been thinking about getting one of those thin-bezelled super thin dealies. I have a projector for serious movie watching, so the TV would just be for daytime cartoons for the kids or for playing Wii U or things like that. Thing is, I live in Japan and want to buy domestic. Any good, non-overpriced choices?
FrankNitty
Member
So do you game on a monitor?
haZethew0rld
Member
It's prolly cause they are hard to find, I would recommend getting the 50'' version if you have the space. I remodeled my room and now my 42'' is quite far lol, I'm definitely considering the 50'' now since it's cheaper.