Insane Metal
Member
I just got the 32" and it is sexy as hell. Image quality is great too.
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
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I just got the 32" and it is sexy as hell. Image quality is great too.
BruiserBear
Banned
No, I currently game on a 42 inch Panasonic D30 HDTV. I've never actually found an exact measurement of it's input lag, but a very similar model (DT30) was tested at 31ms of lag. I believe the D30 is between 15-30.
MikeE21286
Member
BTW Costco has the 50" S64 for $599 + $99 shipping right now (but I think you're looking for a bigger set)
They also have the 65" for $1299
http://www.costco.com/Panasonic-65"-1080p-Plasma-TV-TC-65PS64.product.100043008.html
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Issue is I need to get it from Best Buy. So the 64 looks like a no-go.
Does anyone here have a S60 model? How is it in a daytime living room? A ton of glare?
POWERSPHERE
Member
I had fun playing a bunch of games and didn't notice the lag at all. Looked incredible too.
I'm just saying you can technically know limitations but if they don't affect you in real life, then what does it matter?
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I think I'll just gauge the potential glare in my living room when I get home tonight, and go with the S60 if it's manageable. Otherwise I'll pay the extra $200 for the ST.
Lv99 Slacker
Member
There's a podcast I listen to called HTguys, and in their latest episode, they ranked their top five best sets for under $1k:
The rest:
#2 Samsung UN55FH6030 55-Inch 1080p 120Hz 3D LED HDTV $848
#3 LG Electronics 50LA6200 50-Inch Cinema 3D 1080p 120Hz LED-LCD HDTV with Smart TV and Four Pairs of 3D Glasses $879
#4 VIZIO E551i-A2 55.0-Inch 1080p 120Hz Smart LED HDTV $828
#5 Panasonic VIERA TC-P50ST60 50-Inch 1080p 600Hz 3D Smart Plasma HDTV (Includes 2 Pairs of 3D Active Glasses) $999
Check out the link if you want to read the explanations given for each selection.
www.htguys.com/podcasts/2013/8/2/podcast-594-allaire-aris-speaker-and-top-5-hdtvs-for-under-1.html
The rest:
#2 Samsung UN55FH6030 55-Inch 1080p 120Hz 3D LED HDTV $848
#3 LG Electronics 50LA6200 50-Inch Cinema 3D 1080p 120Hz LED-LCD HDTV with Smart TV and Four Pairs of 3D Glasses $879
#4 VIZIO E551i-A2 55.0-Inch 1080p 120Hz Smart LED HDTV $828
#5 Panasonic VIERA TC-P50ST60 50-Inch 1080p 600Hz 3D Smart Plasma HDTV (Includes 2 Pairs of 3D Active Glasses) $999
Check out the link if you want to read the explanations given for each selection.
www.htguys.com/podcasts/2013/8/2/podcast-594-allaire-aris-speaker-and-top-5-hdtvs-for-under-1.html
Melchiah
Member
The light one(on left)is the Panasonic LED LCD The dark one(on the right) is the Panasonic ST60 Plasma
My old Bravia 40W5500 LCD looks nothing like that.
The Dark Knight Blu-Ray
Siren: Blood Curse wallpaper
Heavy Rain trailer & Killzone 3 Bullet Time with a higher backlight setting, and lights on in the room.
Dat lag though. .34 compared to .74 is HUGE.
Insane Metal
Member
The Sony W6 should be the best cheap gaming TV (the European model at least) right now:
Is it possible to test the lag input without a crt monitor around?
This is the Leo Bodnar lag tester. Uses a HDMI connection and a special device that sends out a signal to the TV which is picked up by a light sensor. Much more accurate than the clone desktop and take a picture method.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Yeah, but the glare would render it unwatchable during the daytime without boarding up my windows. A friend has the ST60 and says he notices no lag. Hmm.
This is a stupid hard decision.
RepairmanJack
Member
For me I've just never seen input lag as an issue unless I go from tv to tv a lot. The only time I ever noticed it is when I used to go from pc monitor to tv with X360 a lot, but anymore I don't ever move anywhere else to play games. To me I just don't think I'll notice much at all.
I'm so torn. I've been very happy with my Panasonic plasma for the last seven years, and have had absolutely no issues with the tech. After the break-in period and some tentative experimentation, I gleefully abused the heck out of this display. Spotted a little IR a handful of times in the first 18 months (4:3 bars; game HUDs), but it always faded quickly, and I haven't seen a trace of it in years. However, I get the impression that this kind of careless use won't be possible with newer models; plus the idea of using a new, larger display as an occasional PC monitor is very appealing. So plasma seems like a less sensible choice this time.
Looking at LCD tech, I'd go with a Samsung 8000; but while the PQ is superb for an LCD, the input lag is unacceptable. The Sony W9 lacks the lag, but seems to couple an inferior display with a much higher price tag. If I did go plasma, I'd be forced to pick up an S60 for the low input lag, but I'd have to compromise my use to avoid IR; and I'd also lose 3D. I don't want to trade IQ or pay through the nose for it, but active 3D is a feature I'd like in a new TV.
I think I'll wait to upgrade; perhaps hold out for a price drop on the Sony. Seems like the best all-round option, but not for the asking price. If my current panel died tomorrow, I have no idea what I'd do.
Looking at LCD tech, I'd go with a Samsung 8000; but while the PQ is superb for an LCD, the input lag is unacceptable. The Sony W9 lacks the lag, but seems to couple an inferior display with a much higher price tag. If I did go plasma, I'd be forced to pick up an S60 for the low input lag, but I'd have to compromise my use to avoid IR; and I'd also lose 3D. I don't want to trade IQ or pay through the nose for it, but active 3D is a feature I'd like in a new TV.
I think I'll wait to upgrade; perhaps hold out for a price drop on the Sony. Seems like the best all-round option, but not for the asking price. If my current panel died tomorrow, I have no idea what I'd do.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Yeah. I'm leaning to the ST60. I'll use the 3D a small bit and the improved picture will be nice. The anti-glare will be nice.
Decided to stick with my Panasonic ST50. For the $795 I paid for it new it's well beyond anything in that price range and significantly over. Comparing it to the Sony 802 and 905, the 802 would be a significant downgrade in picture quality comparing RGB balance graphs, color saturation tracking, and ANSi checkboard black level tests. I'd have to spend $2,300 on the Sony 905 to not feel like I've made a downgrade and still it doesn't match calibrated black levels. Maybe If I played a ton of twitchy FPS the input lag would be something I coveted more, but I played the hell out of Bad Company 2 on my S2 Panasonic and never felt like I was getting out gunned. I'd also have deal with IPS panel lottery problems like screen uniformity and DSE which bugs me more than plasma problems. There is no best options, I guess you just got to pick which is easiest to put up with at the end of the day.
Icomp
Member
Okay, so I've been looking at TV's for a while now and my eyes are pretty fixed on the GT60 (As I game alot and it's supposed to be good for that.)
However I'm interested in looking at some LED TV's with similar black levels. Is the price going to spike for something like that? Any recommendations?
However I'm interested in looking at some LED TV's with similar black levels. Is the price going to spike for something like that? Any recommendations?
BlazeDSM
Member
I should've consulted with GAF before purchasing this but my gift card was about to expire and had to use it asap. Anyways, I had a $100 gift card from hhgregg and $100 to spend for whatever I wanted. So I did my research, and found something in the price range that would suit my needs. It's a TV for the bedroom and I didn't want anything to big but not too small especially since my wife's eyes are a factor with astigmatism issue. Anywho, I found a 29" Toshiba 720 LED set.
http://us.toshiba.com/tv/led/29l1350u/
http://www.hhgregg.com/toshiba-29-720p-led-hdtv/item/29L1350U#reviewFocusTarget1
What do you guys think? So far, I'm liking it. I got %10 off, tax free, and an HDMI cable all for $192.56 out the door. I am disappointed that it wasn't 1080P and 120hz but for what I was able to spend with the budget I had to work with, it is sufficient for my basic needs. I'm gonna be using it pretty much for HD TV, 360, PS3, and maybe my PC...
They had the same television, 32", and all the same specs for $249.99. I don't know if that extra 3" matters (when it comes to tv sizes
) but it did save me $50 which isn't that bad. I'll take some pics later and update the post. Any thoughts and opinions will help. I still have 11 days to exchange or return btw.
http://us.toshiba.com/tv/led/29l1350u/
http://www.hhgregg.com/toshiba-29-720p-led-hdtv/item/29L1350U#reviewFocusTarget1
What do you guys think? So far, I'm liking it. I got %10 off, tax free, and an HDMI cable all for $192.56 out the door. I am disappointed that it wasn't 1080P and 120hz but for what I was able to spend with the budget I had to work with, it is sufficient for my basic needs. I'm gonna be using it pretty much for HD TV, 360, PS3, and maybe my PC...
They had the same television, 32", and all the same specs for $249.99. I don't know if that extra 3" matters (when it comes to tv sizes
) but it did save me $50 which isn't that bad. I'll take some pics later and update the post. Any thoughts and opinions will help. I still have 11 days to exchange or return btw.FairXchange
Member
Sorry for the late reply, I ended up going with two of these light strips.
http://www.lowes.ca/under-cabinet-lights/westek-plug-in-cabinet-led-light-bar-kit_g1434942.html?isku=9922471&linkloc=cataLogProductItemsImage
This is for Lowes Canada, you can find similar LED strips in any hardware store however. Also, you'll probably find some great prices on Amazon. The recommended type of light is apparently daylight (6500k), but the ones I linked are warm white (3000k), not sure how much of a difference it will end up making.
Good luck on adding your back lighting, it really makes the set look great in dark rooms!
grap3fruitman
Banned
Maaan, fuck whitey.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
fyi, none of the 120hz TV actually support framerates over 60fps.
DizzyCaffeine
Member
Thanks! I'm definitely going to pick something like that up soon.
And just to chime in on the S60 (which I've owned for a couple months now), it is a fantastic TV for movies and gaming. The glare problem, however, is no joke. Unless your TV is going in the basement, you will need blackout curtains.
Toothless Spoon
Member
I wish I didn't see this thread....I'm been in JBHiFi so many times looking at the new LED's, they look so pretty. I've never actually contemplated a plasma before, and I'll probably stick with LCD.
TheLaughingStock
Member
Blaze, I would go bigger to the 32. I had a 32 Sony for the bedroom and wish I went to 37 years ago. Living room I had a 55 and got a projector later.
Insane Metal
Member
Ok but it's paid...
There is no need to buy one though. Just use displaylag.com and look for your display in the database. It is constantly growing.
demosthenes
Member
So, when Amazon was selling the 60vt60 for $2,000 I tried to price match at Best Buy but I missed it by an hour or so. I tried calling them and ordering it over the phone but the associate said it was the full price. I currently have a 50v10 (4 years old now?) that had a rising black problem and when I watch a movie it's like light grey black bars now. When I see new Plasma sets that have solid black bars it hurts so much. Hope the 60vt60 goes back on sale
Pearlito's Way
Neo Member
So, when Amazon was selling the 60vt60 for $2,000 I tried to price match at Best Buy but I missed it by an hour or so. I tried calling them and ordering it over the phone but the associate said it was the full price. I currently have a 50v10 (4 years old now?) that had a rising black problem and when I watch a movie it's like light grey black bars now. When I see new Plasma sets that have solid black bars it hurts so much. Hope the 60vt60 goes back on sale
How much are you looking to spend for the set. There's a site that has that unit for less than 2k
fuzzyreactor
Banned
what do you mean by lack of filter?
demosthenes
Member
Which site? I liked the Amazon deal b/c Best Buy will price match. I prefer to get big toys like this in person.
Insane Metal
Member
McHuj
Member
Anti reflection filter, S64 has it, s60 doesn't.
I've seen some people OCing a TV with an nvidia program to have TVs display at 120hz.
Pearlito's Way
Neo Member
So, when Amazon was selling the 60vt60 for $2,000 I tried to price match at Best Buy but I missed it by an hour or so. I tried calling them and ordering it over the phone but the associate said it was the full price. I currently have a 50v10 (4 years old now?) that had a rising black problem and when I watch a movie it's like light grey black bars now. When I see new Plasma sets that have solid black bars it hurts so much. Hope the 60vt60 goes back on sale
It's called eastcoasttvs.com. They have the panasonic 60vt60 price under 1900. With discounts you can get it for even less, plus, it's free delivery. It wouldn't be ideal for you since you like to buy in person. Something you can consider though.
I own a LG 47" 7600 Smart LED tv, the gaming and clarity is fantastic. Once all the correct settings are used, ie input set to "PC" - game mode on, Black level on "LOW" and its corresponding black level set on the PS3 etc there is minimal if not no delay.
It seems to make a difference on the FPS, I believe because of interpolation, the closer the game is to 1080p + 60fps I think the better the TV responds, not to mention the natural benefits lol.
Btw it is quite easily achievable to get decent blacks with lower backlights, some of the Screenshots shown in this thread with LCD have a serious amount of backlight turned on and could do with turning down to rid that white washed out look, "local dimming" will nullify it nearly alltogether, depending on the setting. I self-Calibrated it using discs to good effect.
It seems to make a difference on the FPS, I believe because of interpolation, the closer the game is to 1080p + 60fps I think the better the TV responds, not to mention the natural benefits lol.
Btw it is quite easily achievable to get decent blacks with lower backlights, some of the Screenshots shown in this thread with LCD have a serious amount of backlight turned on and could do with turning down to rid that white washed out look, "local dimming" will nullify it nearly alltogether, depending on the setting. I self-Calibrated it using discs to good effect.
demosthenes
Member
Thanks for the heads up, I wonder if Best Buy would price match
55" is down to $1,700. I would even settle for that. I think I'm crazy and should just be happy with my 50v10, but the fact that blacks aren't black anymore, really drives me crazy.
Pearlito's Way
Neo Member
Thanks for the heads up, I wonder if Best Buy would price match
55" is down to $1,700. I would even settle for that. I think I'm crazy and should just be happy with my 50v10, but the fact that blacks aren't black anymore, really drives me crazy.
Never hurts to try. I'm torn between the vt60 and the samsung led 8000. With the new wave of next gen consoles around the corner my next set has to be accommodating to take full advantage of them. I might just sit back and see what models are released next year.
FrankNitty
Member
The pictures are off axis which makes them washed out. In that picture of the 2 panasonics the LED wouldn't look like that if it were on center. Once you go off axis with LCD it's all over. washes out regardless of how you have it set. In my experience in many cases unless it is full array with local dimming with a ton of zones you won't get those inky blacks on LCD. If someone says they are I would bet money they are crushing blacks
demosthenes
Member
That's something else I've thought on too. I'm indecisive too, it sucks. I do like waiting though for problems to get discovered. I knew about the rising blacks, I just didn't know how bad it would be after a ton of hours.
That's my biggest issue with LCD/LED sets; all of my normal sitting locations in my family room are off-axis from the TV, so plasma is the best option for me. I've tried a couple of LED sets (most recently an LG 55" LM8600 I believe) and returned them to stick with my "old" 720p (768p really) Samsung plasma as it simply looks better to me and my wife.
...eesh. EastCoastTV's was getting a lot of flak over at the AVS forums on a few owners thread (Panasonic VT60, Sony W900A) regarding TV's damaged upon delivery. Apparently a few horror stories about their refusal to acknowlege damages, forcing customers to follow the manufacturer for resolution (which is not quick)- as many say, buyer beware.
ostrichKing
Member
I do not recommend EastCoastTV...heard nothing but trouble with them...I went with Paul's TVs...was able to haggle the price of a VT60 down cheaper than I've seen anyone (legit) carry it...and got an extended warranty. It's the best tv I've ever owned hands down...It's worth a try to call some of these places up and "pit" them up against each other for best deal...
Sir Griffith
Member
Looking into getting either the Panny 42 or 50" S60 at some point for gaming purposes and had a question. I'm a bit worried of the IR and burn in I've been reading about everywhere and was wondering if playing for a certain amount of time and turning off the TV would be a long term solution. Are there specific intervals that this method could work? Like playing for 3 hours and turning the TV off for 30 min? Or does it have more to do with what's being displayed versus how long the TV's been on?
Bill Rizer
Member
Filterless plasma looks so much better than dull filtered plasma picture. So crisp and vibrant. Sure, you have to have a light controlled environment, but don't believe you can watch a plasma tv in full daylight, even if your screen has antiglare.
I've had the 55" Panasonic VT60 for several weeks now, and while the black levels and rich colors are gorgeous, I'd like to talk about some of the set's shortcomings since they rarely seem to be mentioned.
Brightness / ABL: This is by far the weakest aspect of the set. When displaying bright scenes the contrast will noticeably dip. Hockey looks particularly bad with dirty looking ice. Even set to a modest 60% contrast (which is used by the THX Cinema preset), the fluctuating white levels can be very distracting. As an added bonus, these low contrast "bright" scenes kick the plasma buzzing into overdrive.
Image Retention: This is still a problem to consider. I have after images from both The Last of Us (a game with a dynamic HUD) and Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3. This is from 1-2 hour game sessions at my preferred 75% contrast with panel brightness at Mid and pixel orbiter on. These sessions were also padded with TV and movie viewing. This may have been less of an issue if I had left overscan on, but I prefer a 1:1 image.
Phosphor Trails: These are yellowish trailing after images that can appear when there is motion between certain contrasting colors. It's usually only noticeable in 60fps games, particularly so in sidescrollers like Guacamelee or Rayman Origins.
So yeah :/. it can still be a beautiful display depending on the content, but that's the problem for me. It could also be that I'm just too damn picky. :lol
Brightness / ABL: This is by far the weakest aspect of the set. When displaying bright scenes the contrast will noticeably dip. Hockey looks particularly bad with dirty looking ice. Even set to a modest 60% contrast (which is used by the THX Cinema preset), the fluctuating white levels can be very distracting. As an added bonus, these low contrast "bright" scenes kick the plasma buzzing into overdrive.
Image Retention: This is still a problem to consider. I have after images from both The Last of Us (a game with a dynamic HUD) and Ultimate Marvel Vs. Capcom 3. This is from 1-2 hour game sessions at my preferred 75% contrast with panel brightness at Mid and pixel orbiter on. These sessions were also padded with TV and movie viewing. This may have been less of an issue if I had left overscan on, but I prefer a 1:1 image.
Phosphor Trails: These are yellowish trailing after images that can appear when there is motion between certain contrasting colors. It's usually only noticeable in 60fps games, particularly so in sidescrollers like Guacamelee or Rayman Origins.
So yeah :/. it can still be a beautiful display depending on the content, but that's the problem for me. It could also be that I'm just too damn picky. :lol