Support NeoGAF

[Psycho_Mantis]

Because 360 & PS3 won't have new Mario 3D, new Sonic, and new Pikmin this Holiday season. Games sell systems, and even counting those systems, Wii U has the best exclusive lineup going into the Holiday season.



See above.

As for 3DS, those who already have a 3DS but want more Nintendo content besides Pokemon and Zelda this Holiday season will likely at least consider a Wii U.

There are games only available on PS4 you know. First you say WiiU is cheaper than the PS4 by 100 so theres less incentive to buy one then when someone says the same can be said for the WiiU in relation to the PS360 you say it has exclusive games, disregarding the fact that the PS4 has exclusive games as well.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

Yes, but only if Nintendo drastically drops the price to $150 or less. I would like to he surprised but I believe deeply that the wii u is dead in the water.

 

[mejin]

3DS will sell, WiiU won't.

PS4 / Xbox One are the new toys this year.

 

[prankster101]

In my case I love Nintendo games and I would love to play some of those games but the PS4 is a better long term investment. Nintendo has Nintendo games, and thet are awesome. But I couldn't use it as my only console and I only have money for one.

Which is why Nintendo going third party is the best way to serve their fanbase...

People buy games. Not hardware.

 

[ToraShiro]

The Wii U is the modern day Dreamcast. No matter how good the games are (and will be), no-one's going to give a shit.

I'm by no means defending Nintendo, but it was four factors that the Dreamcast couldn't overcome:

1) easily pirated
2) nowhere near the financial liquidity as "ol' flush with cash" Nintendo
3) stuck between generations
4) lacked the must-buy exclusives from third parties PS2 benefited from

The WiiU suffers from 3 & 4, so I feel like it could still go either way, though they are facing an uphill battle. It is not, however, a modern day Dreamcast. Is WiiU gonna see a bump in sales this holiday? Sure. Is it going to outsell the new consoles? Unlikely.

 

[Metallix87]

Are you suggesting that it's ok for some people to make predictions, but not others? I'm not Michael Patcher, but do you have any evidence to suggest that despite its pathetic sales record to date, that the Wii U has a fighting chance? Still? After all these months when Nintendo have been banging on the door and trying to convince people (and software developers) to invest in the console...

No one is interested.

Honestly, the situation isn't nearly as dire as it was for the 3DS, IMO. Yes, sales are lower, but it likely isn't bleeding money like the 3DS was. If Nintendo could fix that issue, they can fix this one. Drop the hyperbole.

And no, anyone can make predictions, but prancing about pretending that yours are anything more than your own vague, pessimistic guesses is absurd.

 

[Bronetta]

Didn't Nintendo say they're expecting to sell 8 million units by the end of the fiscal year? I don't even think its sold a million from when the fiscal year started till now.

 

[Metallix87]

There are games only available on PS4 you know. First you say WiiU is cheaper than the PS4 by 100 so theres less incentive to buy one then when someone says the same can be said for the WiiU in relation to the PS360 you say it has exclusive games, disregarding the fact that the PS4 has exclusive games as well.

PS4 has exclusive games, yes, but not system sellers. Mario is a system seller.

 

[Cornbread78]

Lol. I am a parent and as most kids own a Wii, the WiiU and it's price will make it the obvious choice...especially for parents. I don't think there are many parents willing to burn so much cash on a console that isn't even backward compatible. For core gamers X1 and PS4 may be the choice, but kids and parents are no early adopters.

a $250 Black Friday bundle would absolurly dominate with that market in mind..

 

[Branson]

There's more on the Wii U I want to play right now than either of the next gen consoles so far. I've thought about it but I'm actually waiting till next year for next gen stuff since the launch lineup is kind of shitty.

 

[Gator86]

I think it's going to get brutally savaged this holiday season, especially with it's price point.

This. The games list in the OP was pretty pathetic with the exception of Mario 3D world. Goofy mini games and low resolution, gimped ports don't move consoles. Especially with the ps4 and xbone hitting shelves.

 

[Metallix87]

a $250 Black Friday bundle would absolurly dominate with that market in mind..

Indeed, and I suspect that the Mario bundle will be hitting around that price point.

 

[prankster101]

Indeed. Makes me remember everyone expecting Vita to do groundbreaking numbers even when it didn't had any appealing software in the release, too.

No-one expected Vita to do groundbreaking numbers as it was ridiculously expensive. That price was a massive barrier to entry.

But now, I honestly have hope for the Vita as it's far more competitively priced(cheaper than a 3DS XL) and also has more development support.

The Vita could take away some of the 3DS's thunder in the next few months as people start realising how gorgeous the hardware is, and how cool some of the games are.

Just like how the PS3/XB360 managed to enrapture audiences when they reached a certain price threshold, so too will the Vita ensnare previous 3DS gamers.

 

[Arkam]

Yes, but only if Nintendo drastically drops the price to $150 or less. I would like to he surprised but I believe deeply that the wii u is dead in the water.

IMO $150 is just insane for the near future.
While the WiiU only has a fraction of the performance of the X1/PS4 it is still a nice piece of tech. I think the sweet spot for it will be $250 with a packin Digital title.

If the damn thing was also a Blu-ray player I think $299 bundles we are seeing would be very appealing.

 

[UNCMark]

What about the 35 millions who ALREADY have a 3DS? These would be the easiest customers to convince.

Most of them live in a country that doesn't give a crap about console gaming anymore.

 

[qizah]

I think they'll get a boost this holiday but I don't know how long that'll last.

Also I don't think the Wii U will outsell the PS4 or Xbox One, but anything is possible - and Nintendo's success usually unpredictable.

 

[prankster101]

I'm by no means defending Nintendo, but it was four factors that the Dreamcast couldn't overcome:

1) easily pirated
2) nowhere near the financial liquidity as "ol' flush with cash" Nintendo
3) stuck between generations
4) lacked the must-buy exclusives from third parties PS2 benefited from

The WiiU suffers from 3 & 4, so I feel like it could still go either way, though they are facing an uphill battle. It is not, however, a modern day Dreamcast. Is WiiU gonna see a bump in sales this holiday? Sure. Is it going to outsell the new consoles? Unlikely.

2. Shenmue nearly bankrupted Sega. And Nintendo can't afford to make as expensive a videogame as the hardware base isn't there. They could if they were 3rd party, but at present, they can't. Hence the reason why they give us conservative updates.

3. The Wii U is also stuck between generations. At least the DC could go toe to toe with PS2 on a technical level. The Wii U can't even manage that.

4. The Wii U also suffers from a lack of 3rd party support. No EA, GTA V etc.

Edit:
1. The DS was also prone to rampant piracy, as well as the PS1, but that didn't stop it from becoming successful and becoming the market leader.

The DC was a lot more harder to crack when it came to piracy.

 

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

I wish I saw that happening. I own one and it truly does offer a different experience from other consoles. However, I just don't see Nintendo climbing out of the hole they dug themselves in. There will be too much hype around the PS4 and the Xbox One that it will unfortunately be buried behind the next-gen commotion.

I don't think it's over after this holiday, though. In 2014 we still have big hitters such as Smash Bros, Mario Kart, X, Donkey Kong, and most likely other big Nintendo titles coming. Nintendo will have to cater to their hardcore fanbase with the Wii U in order for it to be a mild success.

 

[Prince Vultan]

Wii U gonna hit it's stride because Mario? Heard that pre-launch... suspect we'll be hearing it again early next year when it's Mario Kart's turn on the chalkboard.

Wii U is going to be slaughtered by the new consoles this holiday, how could it not be?

Oh right... because Mario.

 

[H_Prestige]

I think a lot of people are over-selling the PS4 at this point. Here are the facts:

1.) It will be supply constrained.

2.) The lineup is weak. All the top games are available on HD platforms people already own.

3.) More expensive is still more expensive, even if only $100.

4.) Who knows what launch issues the hardware will suffer.

5.) Not launching in all regions.

6.) Nintendo usually does way better during the Holidays, much more so than the competition.

Those are good arguments as to why the ps3 will outsell the ps4.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

PS4 has exclusive games, yes, but not system sellers. Mario is a system seller.

It doesn't matter if Sony doesn't bring out the big guns because you see its the console launch. People bought the PS2 and PS3 despite the lack of big system selling IP's. The reason: its a next gen console in their eyes. Those games will come eventually but they want to experience the next gen right now. Obviously if there are no worthwhile games coming for it then it would hurt it but all the major third party games are coming for the system along with an exclusive Killzone, driving game and platformer. Seems fine.

Also Mario is a system seller sure, but is it as big of a system seller as it was during the Wii days. Hell no. Nintendo released the a far bigger Mario IP, NSMBU and it couldn't sell the system because they had a sparse schedule. A Mario title would sell systems but its not going to prevent or overcome the lack of third party games and therefore the sparse release schedule which is one of the biggest reasons WiiU is failing.

 

[Devilgunman]

WiiU is gonna tank so hard this holiday. With PS4/Xbone coming out, nothing can out shadow the buzz from both of them. People who can't get it at launch will play GTAV while waiting a few months to get it later.

PS4 has exclusive games, yes, but not system sellers. Mario is a system seller.

CoD, BF4, AC4? Many people buy a new console to play multiplatform games. It doesn't have to be exclusive to sell consoles.

 

[Busty]

If the WiiU manages to break out this Xmas then so will the Vita. That's hoe big an ask Nintendo has in front of them.

And baby, as much as it pains me to say it as a Vita owner myself, but the Vita ain't breaking out this Xmas.

In the UK the WiiU (much like the Vita) is near invisible in the retail space even in dedicated gaming shops. It's not enough to have titles that might appeal to people, it's not enough to increase the marketing spend. The WiiU is 'out of sight and out of mind' for most British gamers/shoppers and that is the most fatalistic thing that could happen to a retail product.

The WiiU is a failed concept. No one wants it. And it's a fallacy to suggest that it's competing with the PS4 and Xbone. It's competing with the PS360. The cheaper consoles with a more varied line up that also has cheaper (classic) titles available.

 

[Futureman]

I think the Wii U is going to do very well this holiday, not blockbuster "OMG WHAT IS GOING, WHAT WHAT IS HAPPENING" kinda of sales, but better than most of GAF expects.

 

[Metallix87]

It doesn't matter if Sony doesn't bring out the big guns because you see its the console launch. People bought the PS2 and PS3 despite the lack of big system selling IP's.

People didn't buy the PS3, though.

 

[prankster101]

If there is one reason why I want Nintendo to bow out of the hardware race is because I don't want to play Nintendo games on substandard hardware.

Sonic Racing Transformed probably looks just as good, and came out 2 years ago. Imagine how good Zelda would look if Nintendo actually made the game for proper next gen console tech.

Also, the Nintendo handheld should be the WiiU - but more suited to handheld gaming.

In a way, make the Wii U the equivalent of Vita TV. And release a handheld equivalent with a Retina screen. Both retail for sub £200.

Or just release a one-size fits all - with HDMI out. And backwardly compatible with DS/3DS.

Should be achievable. In 2 years.

Although I think Vita is really going to come into its own this year - with Vita TV and PS4. Nintendo could duke it out because of Pokemon - but the Vita will end up making the 3DS look old. They have to come out with new hardware soon - or do a price-drop - as mobiles really show up the hardware from a tech perspective.

And given that Iwata has stated that Nintendo aren't good at competing - which is basically saying that they can't compete no more - the only market left for them is the micro/budget console market.

They could easily win the market by just releasing a 3DS successor and having it be as powerful as the WiiU - but with HDMI out.

That's one direction I see the Wii U going, where later "iterations" converge both Nintendo's handheld and console division.

Because by itself, the Wii U is going to get battered. At least they get to "save" it this way.

They're going to have to do something, as Vita TV/Vita combo is going to take marketshare from a budget perspective, and PS4/XBone will take market from a premium perspective.

 

[H_Prestige]

People didn't buy the PS3, though.

Pretty sure the ps3 had sold more than the Wii U by this point.

 

[TAS]

Well..if Wii U does turn it around this holiday the amount of crow that will be eaten on this board will be the stuff of legends.

 

[prankster101]

People didn't buy the PS3, though.

That was because of the high price.

If you read my previous post about the Vita, you'll realise that the price was a massive barrier to entry. Now that the Vita is cheaper than the 3DS, things will change rather quickly.

The PS3 came into its own when it started selling for not much more than the Wii, and when people started realising the how much a better value proposition the PS3 was from a tech and gaming library (3rd party support) perspective.

 

[Chamber]

Those are good arguments as to why the ps3 will outsell the ps4.

lol

Yeah, can't see how PS4/Xbone being supply constrained is going to help Wii U. Totally different game lineups appealing to different kinds of gamers.

Personally I think the only thing that would have kept Wii U from getting buried this holiday was Mario Kart.

 

[FourMyle]

Pretty sure the ps3 had sold more than the Wii U by this point.

And that was at double the price.

 

[Prince Vultan]

People didn't buy the PS3, though.

They did though.

Even at it's darkest periods, PS3 never hit lows like the Wii U has been seeing for most of it's existence.

Well..if Wii U does turn it around this holiday the amount of crow that will be eaten on this board will be the stuff of legends.

And if/when it fails to do that the amount of salt from Nintendo fans will be just...

 

[Busty]

I think the Wii U is going to do very well this holiday, not blockbuster "OMG WHAT IS GOING, WHAT WHAT IS HAPPENING" kinda of sales, but better than most of GAF expects.

Faint praise is damning praise.

Most of GAF expects the WiiU to totally shit the bed this holiday season so to beat those already low, low expectations all the WiiU need do is sell 'horrible numbers' opposed to the 'horrifically shitty' numbers it will inevitably shift at retail.

 

[Metallix87]

Now that the Vita is cheaper than the 3DS, things will change rather quickly.

Your bias is showing, faux Pachter. So Wii U is super dead, but Vita's fortunes are about to change quickly?

 

[Into]

People didn't buy the PS3, though.

More people bought a PS3 than every Nintendo console not named the Wii.

So nobody bought a NES, SNES, N64, GameCube or Wii U?

 

[Napalm_Frank]

It will have a great holiday and then it will drop like a rock.

 

[prankster101]

It doesn't matter if Sony doesn't bring out the big guns because you see its the console launch. People bought the PS2 and PS3 despite the lack of big system selling IP's. The reason: its a next gen console in their eyes. Those games will come eventually but they want to experience the next gen right now. Obviously if there are no worthwhile games coming for it then it would hurt it but all the major third party games are coming for the system along with an exclusive Killzone, driving game and platformer. Seems fine.

Also Mario is a system seller sure, but is it as big of a system seller as it was during the Wii days. Hell no. Nintendo released the a far bigger Mario IP, NSMBU and it couldn't sell the system because they had a sparse schedule. A Mario title would sell systems but its not going to prevent or overcome the lack of third party games and therefore the sparse release schedule which is one of the biggest reasons WiiU is failing.

You also forget the fact that it was their blind loyalty to the Sony brand name, together with the knowledge that Sony had an excellent console track record, which is why people bought into the Sony launch train.

Nintendo did have that when the N64 was revealed. But they have burned so many people over the years that the vast majority don't want to put up with their BS no more.

Unlike GAF, most people aren't hardcore gamers, and therefore see little reason to invest in two or more consoles. They want the VHS of gaming. Nintendo haven't been the standard for over a decade.

 

[Metallix87]

More people bought a PS3 than every Nintendo console not named the Wii.

So nobody bought a NES, SNES, N64, GameCube or Wii U?

Initial sales of the N64, SNES, and NES likely trumped initial sales of PS3. Gamecube is, indeed, a system that no one bought, and Wii U, if it doesn't turn around, will follow suit.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Honestly, the situation isn't nearly as dire as it was for the 3DS, IMO. Yes, sales are lower, but it likely isn't bleeding money like the 3DS was. If Nintendo could fix that issue, they can fix this one. Drop the hyperbole.

And no, anyone can make predictions, but prancing about pretending that yours are anything more than your own vague, pessimistic guesses is absurd.

Nintendo were price gouging with the 3DS at $250 and it sold better than the Wii U which is losing money, more so now than at launch.

 

[Metallix87]

Nintendo were price gouging with the 3DS at $250 and it sold better than the Wii U which is losing money, more so now than at launch.

"Price gouging" is a bit ridiculous, considering they were losing money after the price cut.

 

[Dougald]

I just bought the system and quite enjoy it... but no way.

Nintendo has done just enough to get a bunch of Nintendo fans to actually bother to buy the console a year after launch, which is not really something to celebrate. There's no way the General Public will be eating this up yet, unless Nintendo follows a couple of bundles with a geniune marketing push. People still don't know or care what the Wii U is.

 

[Steve McQueen]

a $250 Black Friday bundle would absolurly dominate with that market in mind..

True. If there will be some good deals, the WiiU will sell just fine. Too bad MK8 is not ready,, would have made WiiU more competetive.

 

[prankster101]

Your bias is showing, faux Pachter. So Wii U is super dead, but Vita's fortunes are about to change quickly?

Maybe not super quickly, but yes, they will change. Especially now that the Vita is cheaper and has better tech. To the average consumer, the Vita is more exciting a proposition.

I think if Nintendo wait too long, they'll find themselves in the same situation with the 3DS as what happened with the Wii. Sales of 3DS will tank, and Nintendo will have no choice but to rush another handheld to market.

 

[FourMyle]

Initial sales of the N64, SNES, and NES likely trumped initial sales of PS3. Gamecube is, indeed, a system that no one bought, and Wii U, if it doesn't turn around, will follow suit.

Hahaha you really will try to spin anything for your god Nintendo huh?

"Initia sales" lol

 

[Sendou]

If you read my previous post about the Vita, you'll realise that the price was a massive barrier to entry. Now that the Vita is cheaper than the 3DS, things will change rather quickly.

But here's still the thing with Vita. Even if you get better bang for your buck as far as hardware goes by selecting Vita the 3DS still dominates it and this will not change. Why? 3DS has all the software support. People didn't buy Vita because it was expensive. Well maybe that played a part but still it was all about games. Vita's library mostly consist of titles you can play on low-end PC's and PS3 (which I would argue most Vita owners own). Compared to 3DS which keeps bringing the goods hardware owner Nintendo leading the charge.

That's the thing with Wii U. No doubt PS4 is relatively better hardware for your money. But what does Wii U have? Software. For a family looking for a suitable console to buy this holidays they won't buy XBONE or PS4. They simply don't have the software to make this a rational choice when you also take in account the price (your average customer hardly knows why particles are so good or whatever). Then again it's not necessarily any different with hardcore gamers. On this very forum we have examples of people that are postphoning XBONE/PS4 purchase in favor of purchasing Wii U or focusing on the games scheluded for it. While PS4 might end up with better library in the long run it is still most crucical what's the software available right now and here I would say Wii U can shine this holiday.

On completely different account we have PC gamers (an ever increasing population) which look at PS4 and XBONE and see bunch of titles they can get looking better on hardware they already own and some uninspiring exclusives. I mean that's pretty much the boat I'm in. Can't justify any other next-gen system but Wii U right now for that reason.

 

[Linkhero1]

If they can't "breakout" this holiday season then I don't see them ever "breaking out" of this shit storm. What other titles, aside from Mario Kart, have the potential to boost system sales? 3D Mario and potentially Wii U ____ titles and those come out this holiday.

 

[Metallix87]

Hahaha you really will try to spin anything for your god Nintendo huh?

"Initia sales" lol

Spin? What we were discussing was initial sales, not lifetime sales.

If they can't "breakout" this holiday season then I don't see them ever "breaking out" of this shit storm. What other titles, aside from Mario Kart, have the potential to boost system sales? 3D Mario and potentially Wii U ____ titles and those come out this holiday.

If this Holiday is a failure, and the Spring with Mario Kart and Smash Bros. is a failure, it's over, and Nintendo needs to go back to the drawing board.

 

[FreedomFighter]

Bold prediction: Wii U moves more hardware worldwide this Holiday than Xbone and PS4. Major turnaround? Not necessarily, but it'll do well enough to earn some more respect on here and kill the "it's a dead system" stigma.

It would be awesome if this happened. I'd love to see GAF's reaction.

 

[Busty]

On completely different account we have PC gamers (an ever increasing population) which look at PS4 and XBONE and see bunch of titles they can get looking better on hardware they already own and some uninspiring exclusives. I mean that's pretty much the boat I'm in. Can't justify any other next-gen system but Wii U right now for that reason.

I found myself disagreeing with several of your points in that post but by far the most egregious was the way you described the WiiU as 'next gen system'.

if Nintendo ever described the WiiU as a 'next gen system' to any potential customers the trade description people would be repelling down the side of Nintendo HQ with lawsuits tightly grasped in their hands faster than you could say 'Kid Icarus reboot'.

 

[Sendou]

I found myself disagreeing with several of your points in that post but by far the most egregious was the way you described the WiiU as 'next gen system'.

if Nintendo ever described the WiiU as a 'next gen system' to any potential customers the trade description people would be repelling down the side of Nintendo HQ with lawsuits tightly grasped in their hands faster than you could say 'Kid Icarus reboot'.

Not this shit again. It's just petty semantics. Feel free to call it whatever you want. I couldn't really care less.