sixteen-bit
Member
Th problem I have with DOA is the same problem I have with KI. Hitstun is basically the new normal state thanks to counter holds / combo breakers while being staggered.
Fighting Games Weekly | Nov 4-10 | I-No what that finger smells like [18+]
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Th problem I have with DOA is the same problem I have with KI. Hitstun is basically the new normal state thanks to counter holds / combo breakers while being staggered.
Ragingnight
Member
DOA battle system, not the TnA. How there is a second layer of mind games once the combo lands due to the hold system in DoA.
In KI the game centers around the combo breaker, meaning the person who made the mistake has a 2nd chance. Much like DOA, if you land a hit, the damage from a hold outweighs the damage of that singular hit. The counter in DoA is that if you guess wrong, you'll be punished hard via counter hit status or grab. In KI, its the combo breaker and the counter breaker.
If this was with the real Team Ninja I would have been mad, but with Team Ninja Dog it wouldn't have mattered, real or not.
Then again, Itagaki wouldn't have liked current MK, like I hope he doesn't.
Man, the more I see of DR3, the more I want it - was already sold on it a long time ago, but still.
He's sorta right. Yun, Ken, Makoto, Dudley would get roughly even playtime.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I'm talking video games. So your saying he should be a creative director or work in user testing or central design somewhere where people critiquing after the fact after the dev designers have systems in place?
And I disagree, at a dev house, the designers do alot besides just think of the core initial idea and that's it. Other scenarios happening where they have to script and other technical stuff? Probably, but they overlap alot (from the places I have been). All designers are creative.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Everyone that doesn't get the KI and DoA thing just shows they haven't played DoA and just like talking shit about stuff 
It also shows how easy it is to put a name on something and watching people get extremely hype/hateful towards something
It also shows how easy it is to put a name on something and watching people get extremely hype/hateful towards something
Exactly. When you ban a top character then people just move to the next best thing.
If you ban Storm in MVC2 then you would you see a lot more Magneto/Sentinel and even Cable. If you ban Sentinel then you will see like a 4x increase in MSP.
It's the same thing when people suggested that Morrigan or Zero be banned... great you banned those characters now you will see twice as many Wolverines out there.
Ahh.
Ragingnight
Member
I don't remember since its been so long. Wasn't one of the reason why spiral fell off was because of Sentinel?
edit
Strider would probably fall off a bit (more so lol) if sentinel wasn't in mvc2.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Everyone that doesn't get the KI and DoA thing just shows they haven't played DoA and just like talking shit about stuff
It also shows how easy it is to put a name on something and watching people get extremely hype/hateful towards something
Is there something to get or is Boon trolling? Let us know, some of us don't know.
Orpheus Telos
Member
Nah DOA 5 is still pretty much complete garbage mechanically. It still has tons of problems the games have always had. There's still constant guessing due to the stun game, literally every single move is negative on block (tons of moves are negative or neutral even when they hit), etc. I really don't want to start ranting about DOA so I'm just gonna stop now but it has a LONG way to go before it's even close to being a good game.
Spiral had trouble against Sentinel's Y assist yes but the whole Spiral/Sentinel combo had SENTINEL as part of the duo too! So if you remove Sentinel you actually make Spiral even worse.
And yea removing Sentinel would hurt Strider/Doom too.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
My impression was most DoA fans never pretended the game was competitive or whatever, but they thought it was fun and still played it anyway. Not like being a "good game" has done VF any good.
pls understand tekno
MiniBossBattle
Member
All I know from a low/middle level of play, there a lot of fighter that are a ton of fun. Tiers only matter if your friend has a terrible matchup.
Ragingnight
Member
hmm I wonder if spiral/doom rocks would be viable if sentinel wasn't in the game. O well way to late to theorycraft that now. Marvel 2 is a grandpa game.
If Chun was banned in 3s, it would be totally fine. 3s is more a rushdown/fast pacedtype game but chun kind of ruins that. I think having more kens, yuns, dudleys, makoto, and etc would be 10000% better than having chun in her current state.
Shouta
Member
Actually, VF5 has a lot of moves that are negative on block too. It's meant to create a back and forth/mind game setup with the system. Tekken is the game where +/- frames come into play and are more along the lines of what you would expect if you come from a 2D background.
From that standpoint, as a VF guy, DOA is pretty interesting. Just hard to get into it because no one players it seriously or takes its seriously, most of the time.
Shouta
Member
But they do exist and it's not setup on a universal system like VF is.
Orpheus Telos
Member
I know but it's literally every single move in DOA right now. I think my main problem with it is that they give the defending player such a strong tool with the holds but they give the offense player pretty much nothing. I'm not asking for tons of moves that are + on block but at least a few would be nice.
Man I played Devil Jin and he had like 3 moves at most that were plus on block (minus stuff like God Fist but that causes so much push back you can't really frame trap with it). Stuff like 1,2,3 was positive but that last hit had so much start up people weren't gonna fall for that shit more than once.
Pretty much
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
If I recall, one of the reasons the VF characters in DOA5 are considered really, really good is because their frames more closely resemble those of their VF counterparts than those of any DOA character. That in itself is kind of telling.
I don't think DOA is all that bad, but I'm not a fan of the way holds work. It just disrupts the flow of the game for me. Plus it seems that if I wanted to get good at DOA, I'd have to memorize a buttload of strings.
I don't think DOA is all that bad, but I'm not a fan of the way holds work. It just disrupts the flow of the game for me. Plus it seems that if I wanted to get good at DOA, I'd have to memorize a buttload of strings.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Damn Tommy got old
also, Green Ranger >>> White Ranger, we all know this. Mothafucka played his flute sword and a mechadragonzord showed up
call_kotaku
Member
It did have one of the least inspired and terrible reveals in recent memory, I think it only passed under the rage radar because of Ryse QTEs and Killer Instinct rape jokes on top of DRM were way worse.
In hindsight MS's whole E3 performance was pretty awful.
I'm kind of a bad person for rooting against it so Capcom ruins yet another brand and gets one step closer to global failure saturation, like some sort of mahjong hand of terrible mangled IPs, but I wouldn't wish that on DR fans.
Marvel tourney at House of Crack tonight. Stream just went up
http://www.twitch.tv/bum1six3
I do dig that White Ranger costume though.
http://www.twitch.tv/bum1six3
I do dig that White Ranger costume though.
Passive Assassin
Member
uh huh...
sixteen-bit
Member
that white ranger dubbing was pretty spot on, lol
edit: well, that makes sense, lol
lol Was gonna say something, but guess you noticed the description lol
Most moves in 3D fighters are disadvantage on block. The issue is that most moves are unsafe on block in DoA (although this is exaggerated a bit in DoA, due to the two-frame suki the game has). Nearly every string in the game is unsafe on block and can be throw punished (and unlike VF, you have only escape each character's P+G throw). So you keep strings "safe" by not finishing them and scaring opponents into not punishing because if you finish the string and they try to throw punish, they eat a high counter stun. The whole system feels kind of derpy since, even on offense, your advantage in expected damage is rather thin. It reminds me of how offense in older versions of Melty Blood worked, where everything was -1 to +1 on block and everyone just mashed their ass off (on offense and defense) before French Bread fixed a lot of the bigger problems.
Another thing I don't like about DoA is how heavily weighted is toward a simple, hard read. If you correctly throw a hold, or attack a throw, or hold an attack, the damage bonus is insane. With the hold damage nerf in DoA5 you now have even more reason to just throw shit out there, since raw CH damage on hit is still bad (they have to land a whole stun combo and juggle to get a good chunk).
Another thing I don't like about DoA is how heavily weighted is toward a simple, hard read. If you correctly throw a hold, or attack a throw, or hold an attack, the damage bonus is insane. With the hold damage nerf in DoA5 you now have even more reason to just throw shit out there, since raw CH damage on hit is still bad (they have to land a whole stun combo and juggle to get a good chunk).
LOL that sounds stupid as fuck.
I do.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Sure.
It actually works quite well in the later versions of the game, given how everything goes together. The main change the made was in slowing down As and increasing the damage scaling on combos that start with them, so there's a bigger reward in starting with heavier attacks. The reason why everything is so even on block is because you can cancel almost any normal into any other normal on block -- so everything canceled into a standing A is safe, but it also tips off what you're doing. Pretty much nothing is dash cancelable on hit or block, and blockstrings can push you our rather quickly, so to come back in you have to commit to a dash or run of some kind, which effectively puts you at disadvantage. Stagger timing is a mile wide (much like in DoA, heh), but you have much better defensive options in Melty -- up-back is very strong (but can be beaten by a ton of guard breaks), backdash is very strong (especially mid-screen), and everyone has alpha counters.
I could go on for another 3456435643 pages, but I doubt that anyone cares.
Act Cadenza was the last version with that problem -- it pretty much got all addressed in Actress Again (and they added stuff like most normals having a couple of frames of super armor against weak attacks, which was a bit much).
Orpheus Telos
Member
I'm a little curious, is anyone here buying the PS4 version of Injustice, or am I the only fool that's buying a game I already own just to have a fighter to play on the PS4?
http://twitch.tv/bum1six3
Live with team CTRL, Fab, Insaynne, Mac, Marvisto, and Moons.
Live with team CTRL, Fab, Insaynne, Mac, Marvisto, and Moons.
Ah. I pretty much got into Melty against real players in AA, so that makes sense. AC was when I dabbled a bit.
Didn't have a PC so CC was only played when I visited people. :/
"God's Beard!"
Member
Oh well.
Oh yeah, Team Stickbug will be doing biweekly tournaments on Fridays at Next Level, starting tomorrow, called "TGISTB".
Art's streaming it (at least this week).
BlazBlue Chrono Phantasma and Guilty Gear XX Accent Core + are the lineup.
Art's streaming it (at least this week).
BlazBlue Chrono Phantasma and Guilty Gear XX Accent Core + are the lineup.
biosnake20
Member
Professor Beef
Banned
This is hella good
ian to the max
Member
Oh wow, this is great. Thanks for the heads-up!