QuicheFontaine
Member
You say that like it's never been done, when in fact it's a massive cliche.
Matrix Revolutions came out 10 years ago
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You say that like it's never been done, when in fact it's a massive cliche.
Messypandas
Member
Yeah I agree. I like this one aswell:
Considering how stunning M1 was and still is, I really expected them to step the game up. But it felt like everything outside of being in the Matrix was a total downgrade.
brickarts295
Member
Gotta say, even though 2/3 of the was crap, the fight scene at the end was awesome...even if it was CGI fest.
Messypandas
Member
angular graphics
Banned
Actually what I said is that you wouldn't have guessed it, not that it's never been done.
But additionally from to top of my head I can't think of a trilogy (or a series of blockbuster movies anyway) of films that did that. Not the sacrificing thingy, but the sacrificing for what is perceived as mankind's enemy for ~2.5 of the 3 movies thingy.
The hero defeating the evil enemy would be the cliche ending, and the one everyone was expecting anyway.
angular graphics
Banned
It was. Until the fucked it over in the ultimate edition:
Yes and no. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=77570193&postcount=43
I'll quote my previous post from that thread:
angular graphics said:
ElectricBlue187
Member
It was. Until the fucked it over in the ultimate edition:
The fuck...
Cloud Atlas was pretty ambitious and I like how it turned out but I doubt the Wachowskis will ever live up to that Matrix hype
QuicheFontaine
Member
Actually what I said is that you wouldn't have guessed it, not that it's never been done.
But additionally from to top of my head I can't think of a trilogy (or a series of blockbuster movies anyway) of films that did that. Not the sacrificing thingy, but the sacrificing for what is perceived as mankind's enemy for ~2.5 of the 3 movies thingy.
The hero defeating the evil enemy would be the cliche ending, and the one everyone was expecting anyway.
I think it was pretty obvious at the end of the second one that Neo was some kinda Jesus man, and that he would definitely die at the end.
I'm not saying a big dumb fight scene or predictable ending can't be fun, I'm taking issue with the quotation where the creators are trying to elevate their films over other "predictable" films.
SystemShock2
Member
It was. Until the fucked it over in the ultimate edition:
That's a shame.
I wanna watch this trilogy now. I don't think I ever really understood the plot correctly.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I thought it was intentional that it became more noticeable as smith took over the matrix until it was almost completely green when he had everyone under his control
angular graphics
Banned
To reiterate, the sacrificing thingy is not the element you wouldn't be able to predict; hell, Neo wanted to sacrifice himself in the middle of the first movie!
Sacrificing himself to strike a peace with what was falsely perceived as the enemy for 2.5h movies was most definitely unpredictable.
BurritoBushido
Member
Best DBZ movie ever made
ElectricBlue187
Member
Falsely perceived?
"As long as the matrix exists, the human race will never be free" - Morpheus
Seems pretty black and white to me. This 'peace' is the capitulation of the human race to save the lives of a few cave dwellers.
angular graphics
Banned
Only if Warner wants to attempt it without the involvement of the Wachowskis because very recently they have mocked the trend of endless sequels and reboots in three different interviews!
http://www.cinemateaser.com/2013/07...ykwer-lana-et-andy-wachowski-pour-cloud-atlas
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/kultur/d...aum-deinen-stamm-deine-spezies/7370754-4.html
http://www.morgenpost.de/kultur/ber...rum-Tom-Tykwer-sich-an-Cloud-Atlas-wagte.html
Machine translation:
angular graphics
Banned
That's a pretty good description of the first movie (from where that quote comes) in less than 10 words.
Start here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=88974403&postcount=115ElectricBlue187
Member
That's a pretty good description of the first movie (from where that quote comes) in less than 10 words.
She says her critics
but isn't that exactly what they do to the human race in the story? Humans are still slaves to machines. The only positive outcome is the machines agreed not to murder all the escapees which they could very easily do, at any time in the future with no repercussion whatsoever.
angular graphics
Banned
Let me share with you a little story, that perhaps will help. When The Matrix was shot the script had a different ending speech by Neo. American test audiences did not know what the word "chrysalis" meant, so they had to rewrite it to dumb it down but they actually changed the meaning of the ending as well.
The original ending speech follows:
Neo said:
You will find out The Matrix' original ending ^ jells incredibly well with the sequels and particularly the ending of the third film/trilogy.
It's also what the trilogy is all about. Pretty pictures usually help:
"I believe that the Matrix can remain our cage or it can become our chrysalis, that's what you helped me to understand. That to be free, you cannot change your cage."
"You have to change yourself."
"When I used to look out at this world, all I could see was its edges, its boundaries, its rules and controls, its leaders and laws."
"But now, I see another world. A different world where all things are possible. A world of hope. Of peace."
"I can't tell you how to get there, but I know if you can free your mind, you'll find the way."
This is precisely what Lana means when she says "You know, if we were only allowed to make The Matrix, we would’ve been very sad because the movie is an incomplete idea and the other two complete the ideas of that movie, and without them it is kind of a false representation of what we wanted it to be.".
This is exactly what I thought, those stories really nailed the mythos and atmosphere of the first film whilst still keeping the mystery. The fact that they were told in so many different styles was also awesome.
Also big thank you to angular graphics for the quotes!
Bad example, the older version looks washed out and dull, the new tinting gives it much more personality. Just look at the indoor scenes, makes the noir aspect so much more potent (especially the staircases).
angular graphics
Banned
Matrix threads run for a few days before they die and I enjoy them quite a bit, let's see if this one can live a little bit longer.
*bump*
*bump*
dark_inferno
Member
Every single Shortmovie in Animatrix was better than Matrix 2 and 3.
a Master Ninja
Member
I've always wondered if you could edit Reloaded and Revolutions into one decent, focused sequel. Way too much side character crap in those movies.
angular graphics
Banned
At the time Warner / Silver claimed the Wachowskis had already explored a scenario in which the actress would be changed for plot reasons so when her unfortunate death happened they were able to work around it easily.
Interestingly they also said Gloria Foster had completed "most of her scenes" for Reloaded so I always wondered "ok, so what are we missing?" Probably something minor.
Interestingly they also said Gloria Foster had completed "most of her scenes" for Reloaded so I always wondered "ok, so what are we missing?" Probably something minor.
Remember how fucking cool everything looked in the Matrix?
Shame about the sequels.
lol. That tribal rave party scene was terrible.
Yeah, they kind of made me cringe and look away. Way too cheesy.
CadetMahoney
Member
Pretty much.
Insane Metal
Member
That piece of shit is 10 years already... my God :/
I still really enjoy Reloaded - it's a fun and creative sci-fi action movie. It's shame that since Revolutions was an abject failure in almost every aspect that Reloaded tends to get lumped in with it in terms of quality.
Yeah, I could do without the pointless and time-wasting Zion rave scene, but overall I always have a good time with the film.
Yeah, I could do without the pointless and time-wasting Zion rave scene, but overall I always have a good time with the film.
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
My thoughts as well. I watched the trilogy back-to-back-to-back for the first time in a while recently and that hasn't changed. Revolutions is just a mess. The visuals during the mech battle in Zion are absolutely stunning, though, even a decade later.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I liked how in Matrix 1, everything was contained to the storylines around characters on the ship and going into the Matrix; it was more mysterious and almost felt like a small, indie film. Then with Hollywood movies following the rules of sequels, everything in the sequel was bigger and more badass.
legacyzero
Banned
Still the best trilogy ever made. I love the Matrix so much. Sure Revolutions didn't end the way everybody hoped, but was still a masterpiece IMO.
angular graphics
Banned
The Neb crew was to visit Zion in the first film and then re-enter the Matrix (pretty much what happens in Reloaded) but Warner was unwilling to provide the budget for it, so they left it for the sequels.
A bunch of secondary characters (other rebels, Neo's family, an AI instructor.. not dissimilar to the one in The Second Rennaissance) were removed (or added and then removed) as well with each new draft, until the characters were trimmed down to the absolutely necessary: the Neb crew + Agents.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Then I'm glad they cut those scenes out. I'm quite sure the Wachowskis or however you spell their name could've made a sequel in the same tone as the first.
It would've worked out better if we thought Neo, Morpheus, Trinity and the crew were only a handful of humans left, and it was just up to them to save the world from the machines. It would've add more mysterious.
Messypandas
Member
A classic example of how directors with more artistic freedom is a never necessarily a good thing.
angular graphics
Banned
Who says the first film wouldn't have been even better that way (introducing Zion etc)? We honestly don't know. You are judging this based on the second film, which of course is a different movie.. Flawed way of thinking.
Even in the first film it is established there's a CITY where humans live and that there other ships.. that's it's not just the Neb.
The sequels were inferior in every single way. The first one was a reasonably intelligent action flick but the sequels felt really garish and cheap. In an attempt to make the films more BADASS and 'philosophical' they sacrificed any sense of subtlety. They felt like fucking fan fiction.
And did the Wachowskis seriously pull the 'you're not smart enough to understand it' card, jesus christ
And did the Wachowskis seriously pull the 'you're not smart enough to understand it' card, jesus christ
I'd love to hear your interpretation on what the second and third films are about, philosophically speaking. By suggesting they lack subtlety, you're implying that they are obvious or on the nose. Whether or not you felt the Wachowski's were successful at communicating their ideas, I'm interested to hear your take on what they were intending.
Reloaded really did have an amazing trailer. Watched it so many damn times.
Reloaded>Revolutions
Just for the simple fact that Monica Bellucci looked better in Reloaded.
angular graphics
Banned
I think the Wachowskis would be the last of all people to insult anyone that they "just aren't smart enough" to get their films.
Now, unwilling to put the effort, that's more like it
Now, unwilling to put the effort, that's more like it
People bitch and whine about sequels being predictable.
They went the opposite of what most writers would do, you didn't get the machine twitching in death throes as Trinty and Neo make out to blue skies.
Having said that, what you see on screen is a first draft...and it shows...if they had just put the script in the drawer for a year...come back to it, they would have probably seen all it's flaws and corrected them. So many great ideas that don't really get paid off - if you think about it,.
They went the opposite of what most writers would do, you didn't get the machine twitching in death throes as Trinty and Neo make out to blue skies.
Having said that, what you see on screen is a first draft...and it shows...if they had just put the script in the drawer for a year...come back to it, they would have probably seen all it's flaws and corrected them. So many great ideas that don't really get paid off - if you think about it,.
JehutyRunner
Banned
Revolutions was a pile of balls.
Reloaded, though, was actually alright.
Reloaded, though, was actually alright.
The Warner / Silver claims could have been PR talk. The "blow to the production schedule" was said in the matrix extras by someone whose name I forgot. Who really knows for real though.
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