Gillian Seed
Banned
You know they are no longer making Plasma's right? This years models was the end of the road. Go get them before they are gone. http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/panasonic-will-stop-producing-plasma-tvs-december-8C11505322
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
You know they are no longer making Plasma's right? This years models was the end of the road. Go get them before they are gone. http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/panasonic-will-stop-producing-plasma-tvs-december-8C11505322
What size? I'm still considering switching from a 46HX803 to a 50W656. The W656 has no motionflow, and on my HX803 I use clear mode and like it a lot - increases motion red with no interpolation.
But the W656 is a less reflective set (my HX803 is quite glossy) and of course it's 4" bigger
8ms response time.
lostinblue
Banned
It does, as illustrated here.
Sounds a lot worse than it really is on paper, but it is noticeable.
ST60 is best-on-market in regards to picture quality, only coming a little shy of the more expensive Panasonic 2013 Plasma models; but it's middle-end as a gaming TV. I dunno if that makes sense.
It's a pitty, really, panel response time is 6 ms like every other plasma out there, the rest of the lag being caused by the mediatek engine being employed on it rather than the Panasonic brand one of previous models. That was a cost-saving measure.
Sadly it isn't, yeah.
Well, Then I'd suggest either settling for a ST60, it might not be the ultimate TV for gaming but for the pricepoint it goes for... it kinda is, for movies.
That or going lower (X60 are truly fascinating this year considering how cheap they are; PS3 and X360 games look brilliant albeit 720p) or importing.
We don't have the 42/50GT60 nor the 55/65ST60 models here in Portugal and thus lots of people simply import them from abroad, some stores will even offer the transportation for the EU countries. And you keep the full Panasonic warranty and assistance.
There has been some positive feedback for this store lately:
-> http://www.comtech.de/Fernseher/Plasma-TV
Posting fee's are supposed to be accounted for in the price. So a GT60 is gonna fetch you 876 pounds on the 42" flavour or 1080 pounds for the 50 incher.
lostinblue
Banned
Yes! the UT50 was such a good set last year.
Sadly I missed clearances, because the prices were really, really, great. But stock was low.
GT60 if you want to save a little money, VT60 if you want the premium finish (trackpad and better remote).
The antigloss and contrast filters are also a little more efficient, but I doubt anyone notices without having both side by side.
Oh, and GT60 is bound to be more silent seeing it's a fan-less design; VT60 have fans for increased life-span of the parts though; but knowing fans they'll tend to get noisier a few years from now.
SkyTurnsRed
Banned
My dilemma:
I'm moving into a house in March, and I'm going to have to buy a TV. I'm wanting to make a pretty decent media room on a budget. Right now, I'm using my brother's JVC 46P300, which he's willing to sell me for $250 - I might try to negotiate to $200. LCD, 1080p, 60 HZ, 46". The TV does fine for me, I sit about 6 feet away and probably will be around 8 feet tops when I move out. Laying back on my bed, at eight feed, I have no issues with it.
I just want to know whether I should go with this, or try to find something brand new. I don't need Smart TV or anything like that, and the difference between 60 HZ and 120 HZ isn't quite enough incentive for me.
Any opinions or recommendations?
I'm moving into a house in March, and I'm going to have to buy a TV. I'm wanting to make a pretty decent media room on a budget. Right now, I'm using my brother's JVC 46P300, which he's willing to sell me for $250 - I might try to negotiate to $200. LCD, 1080p, 60 HZ, 46". The TV does fine for me, I sit about 6 feet away and probably will be around 8 feet tops when I move out. Laying back on my bed, at eight feed, I have no issues with it.
I just want to know whether I should go with this, or try to find something brand new. I don't need Smart TV or anything like that, and the difference between 60 HZ and 120 HZ isn't quite enough incentive for me.
Any opinions or recommendations?
I just can't decide if the extra money is worth it or not. About an extra £300. That slightly better black level, anti reflective screen and speakers does sound good though...
lostinblue
Banned
You also have a way better internal chip situation.
ST60 was artificially capped out of the chip department both as a cost-saving effort and because UT50 and ST50 most likely cannibalized last years upper sales market by being on-par with them in lots of things; actually surpassing them in others.
For starters, Plasma as a product is a glass sandwich, the most layers you have to it the darker the screen will be (you can account for their increase through the gradation levels), each layer usually means you have an extra magnesium oxide layer, which is used to emit extra light, that's why the plasma design is really not meant for energy class wins, there's pretty much a war going on inside them, with multiple agents and repetitions. They also end up being a very intrinsic engineering wonder, but I digress.
Anywho, despite those compensation shenanigans, VT60 is darker than ST60, thus ST60 will look way better at half life (100.000 hours of use past, if it gets there) than a VT60. That much is a given (and the filters are applied as a post-treatment, it's like nail/car varnish; not part of the layer itself, I could turn my X50 into a antigloss panel myself with 3M solutions and the like, albeit less efficiently than the solutions researched and employed by Panasonic), last year though, VT50 was a tad dim only hitting about 100 cd/m^2 and ST50/UT50 was precisely where it should be (~130 cd/m^2). This years ST60 goes as high as 165 cd/m^2, sacrificing nothing; it's not that you will use a TV with the highest settings, but seeing light decreases with the lifespan, half life is the phenomena when the original 120 cd/m^2 get reduced to 60 cd/m^2 in that scenario, the ST60 will still be able to give an image as good as a calibrated VT50. (usually in the ~80cd/m^2 range) that's huge considering these TV's are rated 100.000 hours till half-life.
Enough drooling over the achievement, but... this years ST60 is such a big jump it humiliates the VT50 (that's not always the case with next years middle range against last years top range); you'd objectively have no reason to buy a more expensive set, if the hardware surrounding the panel was like last years; and that was my point in doing the detour above. The improvements in peak light were meant for the more complex sandwich this year of course (VT and ZT60) but in the end they benefitted the ST60 again; peak light being more palpable than more gradation levels.
So, they cut on the chips. Last years chips were custom dual core Cortex-A9 @ 1 GHz for UT/ST50 and 512 MB of RAM, GT50 and VT50 had the same SoC overclocked to 1.4 GHz and 1 GB of RAM. Same chip heritage, only slightly capped; response time was unchanged and could in-fact be better due to less post processing. This year... you have a Mediatek 5590 that really can't keep up with last years UT/ST50 in response (it still offers the same functionality, though, just clearly slower at it's trade); GT60 though, has the same chips VT60 has. As previously said though ST60 humiliates a VT50 in picture quality, and the VT50 humiliated everything else that year too.
GT60 is a ST60 *plus* with VT60 chips that negates every ST60 shortcoming. It's worth it considering the gap there was on the chip department this year; last years GT50's weren't all that interesting by comparison.
ST60 was artificially capped out of the chip department both as a cost-saving effort and because UT50 and ST50 most likely cannibalized last years upper sales market by being on-par with them in lots of things; actually surpassing them in others.
For starters, Plasma as a product is a glass sandwich, the most layers you have to it the darker the screen will be (you can account for their increase through the gradation levels), each layer usually means you have an extra magnesium oxide layer, which is used to emit extra light, that's why the plasma design is really not meant for energy class wins, there's pretty much a war going on inside them, with multiple agents and repetitions. They also end up being a very intrinsic engineering wonder, but I digress.
Anywho, despite those compensation shenanigans, VT60 is darker than ST60, thus ST60 will look way better at half life (100.000 hours of use past, if it gets there) than a VT60. That much is a given (and the filters are applied as a post-treatment, it's like nail/car varnish; not part of the layer itself, I could turn my X50 into a antigloss panel myself with 3M solutions and the like, albeit less efficiently than the solutions researched and employed by Panasonic), last year though, VT50 was a tad dim only hitting about 100 cd/m^2 and ST50/UT50 was precisely where it should be (~130 cd/m^2). This years ST60 goes as high as 165 cd/m^2, sacrificing nothing; it's not that you will use a TV with the highest settings, but seeing light decreases with the lifespan, half life is the phenomena when the original 120 cd/m^2 get reduced to 60 cd/m^2 in that scenario, the ST60 will still be able to give an image as good as a calibrated VT50. (usually in the ~80cd/m^2 range) that's huge considering these TV's are rated 100.000 hours till half-life.
Enough drooling over the achievement, but... this years ST60 is such a big jump it humiliates the VT50 (that's not always the case with next years middle range against last years top range); you'd objectively have no reason to buy a more expensive set, if the hardware surrounding the panel was like last years; and that was my point in doing the detour above. The improvements in peak light were meant for the more complex sandwich this year of course (VT and ZT60) but in the end they benefitted the ST60 again; peak light being more palpable than more gradation levels.
So, they cut on the chips. Last years chips were custom dual core Cortex-A9 @ 1 GHz for UT/ST50 and 512 MB of RAM, GT50 and VT50 had the same SoC overclocked to 1.4 GHz and 1 GB of RAM. Same chip heritage, only slightly capped; response time was unchanged and could in-fact be better due to less post processing. This year... you have a Mediatek 5590 that really can't keep up with last years UT/ST50 in response (it still offers the same functionality, though, just clearly slower at it's trade); GT60 though, has the same chips VT60 has. As previously said though ST60 humiliates a VT50 in picture quality, and the VT50 humiliated everything else that year too.
GT60 is a ST60 *plus* with VT60 chips that negates every ST60 shortcoming. It's worth it considering the gap there was on the chip department this year; last years GT50's weren't all that interesting by comparison.
FallingEdge
Member
Ah I see. Well, thanks for the heads up. I want to use this TV for both gaming and movies. Budget is around 1.1k so I'm looking at the W802a as my alternative then. Input lag is just something that annoys me greatly. Through my work discount, I can get it for $980.
Was considering buying the Sony Bravia KDL-42W655, but then noticed it only has 2 HDMI slots. There's always one thing that is really annoying about a certain TV.
Even my 7 year old Bravia has 3 HDMI slots, and that was a medium priced model!
Any TV's that are similar in quality/gaming/input lag/price etc but with extra HDMI slots?
Or would it just be better to purchase a HDMI switch if I really wanted that tv?
Even my 7 year old Bravia has 3 HDMI slots, and that was a medium priced model!
Any TV's that are similar in quality/gaming/input lag/price etc but with extra HDMI slots?
Or would it just be better to purchase a HDMI switch if I really wanted that tv?
I just realized my TV is only 40". I had a 46" until the optical block flaked out and had to dig out this old TV from the basement. That explains why enemies look so small in my games. I'm wanting that Sony w802a, but $1350 after tax is too much. I'm checking Kijiji and the displaylag database. I found a Sony 46ex640 that seems fine.
This was my concern when I was originally looking at the Panny S60, as it only has two HDMI as well. However, my solution was to just get a new receiver as I was using an older one anyways. A switch would be the cheaper alternative though.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
You don't truly experience TV until you can't see anything else but the TV in front of you.
Awwwwwww Yeaaaaaaaaaah.
FallingEdge
Member
Okay, it is down to the W802A or the Panny S60. Heard that the S60 is better with input lag.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
The 802a definitely wins in input lag, though the s60 is no slouch in that department. The S60 will have better picture quality though. are you concerned about image retention?
TalentBurke
Member
Just placed an international order for the Sony KDL 42W654. I live in the U.S. and I'm surprised sony didn't release that model over here. But yeah, that sounds like too good of a TV to game on to pass up. I know only having 2 HDMIs is bad but that wasn't going to stop me, I order a HDMI switch to solve that issue. TV should be here by Thursday
I'd go S60 personally. Those black levels, contrast, colour accuracy and IQ!
The Xtortionist
Member
I'd go S60. You'll get a bigger TV for a lower price and better IQ to boot.
edit - I should add, only go S60 if your game room is pretty dark. A lighted room will wash out the S60's picture and give you subpar results. It's like a mirror.
TheSinkingKnight
Member
I'll mainly game on a 1080i tv from 2006. It's a projection one, but the picture quality is still superb (at least in my eyes).
I'm confused. Why recommend the plasma? You get an ulcer worrying about image retention, and the input lag is noticeable.
I am damn close to buying an 802a myself. If it were just a bit cheaper
The Xtortionist
Member
The S60's input lag is like 30ms. I doubt it would be noticeable. And IR is no big deal. I've gamed for hours on my S60 since I got it, no pixel orbiter, and no lasting IR. Only bout of IR I had was the Super Stardust logo on my PS3 for having it up a bit too long. Shortly after, I booted up Killzone 2 and couldn't see the IR during gameplay, only played it for 2-3 minutes and the IR was gone when I was done, so yeah. Played hours and hours of Arkham Origins and nothing retained. It's a non-factor imo.
TalentBurke
Member
Can somebody please recommend a good Hdmi Switch device please?
Ordered a sony KDL'46w905 from John Lewis yesterday. Can't wait, only problem is its a christmas present from my wife and she won't give it to me early
Tell her you need to test it for dead pixels
This is exact experience, using a Panasonic plasma for the last 5 years. It should stop nobody from using them.
Just a quick question, for a 55" TV (1080p, LED) I've been mainly waiting a bit to watch 1080p videos but sometimes it's hard to wait so I was wondering if watching in 720p is much different quality wise hm, or if I watch from further distance it's ok but closer looks worse?
Trust me, I've already tried that. John Lewis' return policy is awesome which is usually a good thing but has scuppers my chances of getting my hands on the new tv thoroughly.Tell her you need to test it for dead pixels
It came with a free 3D blu ray player and she won't even let me have that early
I weep for our unborn child, she's going to be a strict mum!swaggerbot3000
Member
just pulled the trigger on this 55" vizio led, should be here thursday
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BFQHGUU/?tag=neogaf0e-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BFQHGUU/?tag=neogaf0e-20
FallingEdge
Member
Thanks. I'm prolly going to be making my decision within the next week or so. As for the price, I don't mind paying a bit more if I'm getting more in return.
That's what I'm worried about. Sigh.
Always choose the better and the most expensive one. If you don't, you're only going to ask yourself constantly "what if I had an chosen the other one?". Trust me. You will not regret.
FallingEdge
Member
I might just say fuck it and get the w900a from Sony.
Revengineer
Unconfirmed Member
I wouldn't wait too long.. I pulled the trigger on one last night seeing that there are only 6 new left in stock on Amazon.
Plus, for $670 I feel like it's a good investment.
I already own a 50". I wanna go bigger. But I wish the price dropped more. Sigh
haha, i know. I feel like every day I'm just pushing my luck on when it will start running low. I want to wait until Black Friday just because, but it's not until the end of the month and that might be pushing it a little too far.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Sony 55W900A delivered and is software update date is being downloaded.
This isn't even it's final form. More pictures later. And in the second pic that's a Panasonic 65VT10 which is still kicking ass..
This isn't even it's final form. More pictures later. And in the second pic that's a Panasonic 65VT10 which is still kicking ass..
FallingEdge
Member
Keep us updated as that is the TV I am looking to get now.
For those of you that are in the market for 55"+ gaming HDTVs, please wait till tomorrow morning. Putting out another update on www.displaylag.com.
Polioliolio
Member
Please update this as much as you can. Every time I see a new deal on a television, I check the database, and half the time that set isn't there.
I'm looking for a ~40 inch set with minimal input lag. I don't need 3D, smart BS, wifi, apps, or anything of these frills. I just want a large set with a decent screen that's super responsive to gaming. Audio out is a must too.
TV shopping is so frustrating. There's no point in even bothering to look because they leave out such important information. I may as well shop straight off the display lag database list...
Thanks for the good work and again, update as much as you can, I'm always checking in.
I just bought a set that fits that description fairly well. I found a brand new Sony KDL-50EX645 at a local store at clearance price. The TV was originally released last December, and it is almost literally the Sony w802a, but without 3D. I would never, ever use 3D. It has "apps", but I don't care. I will never touch them. It also has wifi, but I only used it to update the firmware. I don't even use the remote, since I have a Harmony.
These models measure ~30ms lag in the database. Using the game mode, I don't detect any lag on my Wii U. Without game mode, I can clearly feel the lag. This is a great TV and I got it for almost half the cost of the current w802a. I have audio out (it has optical and a mini jack) going to my receiver.
It also has the 120hz "clear" mode if that suits you. This is where it slightly strobes the blacklight to minimize motion blur and raise the effective motion resolution.
These models measure ~30ms lag in the database. Using the game mode, I don't detect any lag on my Wii U. Without game mode, I can clearly feel the lag. This is a great TV and I got it for almost half the cost of the current w802a. I have audio out (it has optical and a mini jack) going to my receiver.
It also has the 120hz "clear" mode if that suits you. This is where it slightly strobes the blacklight to minimize motion blur and raise the effective motion resolution.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
PS3 conntected to 55W900A on an Ollo TRC-64 with a Sony HT-CT660. Shorter HDMI cables, etc. are on the way from Monoprice, so I'll connect everything nicer tomorrow in anticipation of Friday. There's still quite a bit to play around with and I haven't had much time with the TV yet.